Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, The

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2017-02-28 09:13:17 am

SDAVerification: 2016-11-15 11:36:51 am

2016-11-08 09:44:29 am

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/Morrowind.html

Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, The (pc) (pc) [Any %] [Single Segment]

Decision: ~~Accept~~ Edit: This run has been rejected post-verification due to video issues (see https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/elder_scrolls_iii_morrowind_the_available_for_verification__due_2017.02.28.html)

Congratulations to 'AntonioPeremin'!

Thread title:

SDAVerification

2016-11-08 09:44:30 am

Run Information

Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, The (pc) (pc) [Any %] [Single Segment]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/Morrowind-20161103/Morrowind%20any%25%20speedrun%20in%204-33.mp4

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). If you wish to remain anonymous, you can also send a pm with your reply to 'sdaverification' (please state clearly in that case which run you have verified). This is not a contest where the majority wins - Each verification will be judged on its content.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2016-11-08 12:05:03 pm

LotBlind: 2016-11-08 11:53:00 am

LotBlind: 2016-11-08 11:32:06 am

2016-11-08 11:30:36 am

Comparison with 2010 SDA run (not easy):

Ship to registration office - similar.

Registration office - loses couple of seconds, partly because not using the trick where you look at a certain spot to make the menu cursor appear right where it should be. Does get the lockpick off the table though.

Outside office to talking to ring guy - new run goes to talk to Sellus Scrabis for 87 gold so difficult to compare.

Next part - similar

Flight to red mist place - new is faster because carefully aiming it. I guess you can't get far enough unless you get closer first, which is done by using an extra recall (what the money was for?).

The way to the place where the new run does the first OOB - old run looks significantly faster here when factoring out loading times.

In the next part more time is saved by going OOB and using the lockpick to kill the dude. And the character being faster in general.

Reaching Dagoth Ur - slightly faster because clipping in ignoring the crank.

Dagoth Ur inside - faster cause OOB

Next area - faster cause OOB

Final room - I don't know why but somehow the new run loses a lot of time here despite (because of?) using the lockpick instead of the melee weapon to drop the heart. I couldn't tell if the old run lost time in preparations for that earlier - in fact it could be the old run had more time to gain better stats because the in-bounds routes. Actually the timing probably ends on last hit on the heart?

Would the runner like to give some input at this point?

EDIT: I see there's a much faster run on YT here - cleaner and with some strats that seem to save a bit more time as well. On the other hand that one's not gonna be submitted... it proves that you don't have to talk to Sellus to kill the two guys really fast.

Comparison with the 2014 record is still very difficult because lots of little loading times crop up esp. when flying across the terrain: runner loses time buying an extra potion in the city they first teleport to. I can't quite be sure if any of that is returned later.

Okay, so my basic question is this: is there really nothing in the WR that you couldn't have used for better times? How does getting the extra potions/whatever save time?

Comparison with 2010 SDA run (not easy):

Ship to registration office - similar.

Registration office - loses couple of seconds, partly because not using the trick where you look at a certain spot to make the menu cursor appear right where it should be. Does get the lockpick off the table though.

Outside office to talking to ring guy - new run goes to talk to Sellus Scrabis for 87 gold so difficult to compare.

Next part - similar

Flight to red mist place - new is faster because carefully aiming it. I guess you can't get far enough unless you get closer first, which is done by using an extra recall (what the money was for?).

The way to the place where the new run does the first OOB - old run looks significantly faster here when factoring out loading times.

In the next part more time is saved by going OOB and using the lockpick to kill the dude. And the character being faster in general.

Reaching Dagoth Ur - slightly faster because clipping in ignoring the crank.

Dagoth Ur inside - faster cause OOB

Next area - faster cause OOB

Final room - I don't know why but somehow the new run loses a lot of time here despite (because of?) using the lockpick instead of the melee weapon to drop the heart. I couldn't tell if the old run lost time in preparations for that earlier - in fact it could be the old run had more time to gain better stats because the in-bounds routes. Actually the timing probably ends on last hit on the heart?

Would the runner like to give some input at this point?

EDIT: I see there's a much faster run on YT [url=https://youtu.be/gON5k2kw3as]here[/url] - cleaner and with some strats that seem to save a bit more time as well. On the other hand that one's not gonna be submitted... it proves that you don't have to talk to Sellus to kill the two guys really fast.

Comparison with the 2014 record is still very difficult because lots of little loading times crop up esp. when flying across the terrain: runner loses time buying an extra potion in the city they first teleport to. I can't quite be sure if any of that is returned later.

Okay, so my basic question is this: is there really nothing in the WR that you couldn't have used for better times? How does getting the extra potions/whatever save time?

AntonioPeremin

(user is banned)

AntonioPeremin

Edit history:

AntonioPeremin: 2016-11-09 11:33:05 am

AntonioPeremin: 2016-11-09 08:48:08 am

2016-11-09 03:07:56 am

Hi.My timing ends when i drink the last recall potion and i teleport myself behind Azura(when I lost control of my hero).That's why I buyed 2more potions.That was the money from Sellus.getting extra potion saved me 3seconds because no matter how fast I am mark\recall is faster.

AntonioPeremin

(user is banned)

AntonioPeremin

Edit history:

AntonioPeremin: 2016-11-09 11:39:56 am

2016-11-09 05:46:11 am

I also buyed 2x almsivi scrolls to teleport from Seyda Need to Balmora temple.The I buyed potions and again used almsivi scroll to teleport again to the Balmora temple and prepare myself for the jump to red mountain with icarian flight scroll.Sincerely A.P.

AlecK47

2016-11-09 01:33:49 pm

A/V good, no cheating detected

There are a couple time saves that aren't used in this run, like the clip to skip Sellus Gravius. Admittedly, that one doesn't save much, and the same can be said for the others, but in a run this short they matter more. The speed stack glitch could also be used even more. Granted, too much speed makes it hard to handle, but it also makes clips easier and your movement faster in general. That said, my biggest problem with this run is that there are several moments of slop - selecting the barrel twice right after taking that long to grab the lockpick would have been an automatic reset for me if I were going for a submittable run. Some of the shopping and other menuing could have been faster as well. All of it adds up over the course of the run. And there's definitely no need to use the menu to select Sunder and Keening at the end - you only have three weapons, and you can switch them with the mouse wheel. If you're slow, just switch away and back and continue, and it will still be faster than using the menu by a couple seconds.

That said, this is still a good run, and still an improvement. I'm too lazy to time out the loads for this run, but they're generally at least 15 seconds and often more (especially if running extra processes, like recording software). This run is roughly on par with the current SDA run even before loads are removed, so it is definitely faster. That said, I think the improvement here is basically purely routing and techniques discovered since 2010. The overall quality of the current SDA run is probably a little better, but I don't feel like doing an in-depth comparison, and it's still fairly close.

I'll go ahead and give this one a weak accept and encourage the runner to try and improve it. If you can do this well, you absolutely can do better.

I also recommend getting the load remover for livesplit (it should be linked in the "resources" section of speedrun dot com) working. It's not hard, and it makes comparisons much easier.

A/V good, no cheating detected

There are a couple time saves that aren't used in this run, like the clip to skip Sellus Gravius.  Admittedly, that one doesn't save much, and the same can be said for the others, but in a run this short they matter more.  The speed stack glitch could also be used even more.  Granted, too much speed makes it hard to handle, but it also makes clips easier and your movement faster in general.  That said, my biggest problem with this run is that there are several moments of slop - selecting the barrel twice right after taking that long to grab the lockpick would have been an automatic reset for me if I were going for a submittable run.  Some of the shopping and other menuing could have been faster as well.  All of it adds up over the course of the run.  And there's definitely no need to use the menu to select Sunder and Keening at the end - you only have three weapons, and you can switch them with the mouse wheel.  If you're slow, just switch away and back and continue, and it will still be faster than using the menu by a couple seconds.

That said, this is still a good run, and still an improvement.  I'm too lazy to time out the loads for this run, but they're generally at least 15 seconds and often more (especially if running extra processes, like recording software).  This run is roughly on par with the current SDA run even before loads are removed, so it is definitely faster.  That said, I think the improvement here is basically purely routing and techniques discovered since 2010.  The overall quality of the current SDA run is probably a little better, but I don't feel like doing an in-depth comparison, and it's still fairly close.

I'll go ahead and give this one a [b]weak accept[/b] and encourage the runner to try and improve it.  If you can do this well, you absolutely can do better.

I also recommend getting the load remover for livesplit (it should be linked in the "resources" section of speedrun dot com) working.  It's not hard, and it makes comparisons much easier.

AntonioPeremin

(user is banned)

AntonioPeremin

Edit history:

AntonioPeremin: 2016-11-11 01:08:39 am

2016-11-09 02:23:27 pm

Yes I know that my run isn't perfect ,but nobody is.Still my run is as You concluded faster then the current run on SDA.Thank You for Your time and analyse.

AntonioPeremin

(user is banned)

AntonioPeremin

Edit history:

AntonioPeremin: 2016-11-11 02:06:13 am

2016-11-10 02:12:02 am

Hi again,
In the old run(Pendrokar's)You can see a big slop when he jumps from Balmora to red mountain.He loses 10 seconds because he did not jump directly in front of the door.

LotBlind

2016-11-10 08:56:50 am

Am I correct to think that you can't jump directly to the destination from where the 2010 run jumps? If you could, why do the newer runs use the intervention to position themselves differently? If I am correct, that's more a routing issue than an execution one.

It's the fact that your run doesn't incorporate stuff that has been known about since at least 2014 (the WR run's date)... I'm still not convinced your overall route is the best, that or you didn't have the smartest way to implement it, as shown by the WR run. It's more the routing that I'm dubious about than your execution, which seems a bit worse than the other record as well. A faster run doesn't mean auto-accept if most of the time saved comes from using all the latest tricks.

AntonioPeremin

(user is banned)

AntonioPeremin

Edit history:

AntonioPeremin: 2016-11-10 10:23:45 am

2016-11-10 10:13:59 am

Ok.

I was thinking that any% is all about who's faster,didn't know that there are other criteria,sorry about that.But in my opinion the current/old run is a bit outdated...

AlecK47

2016-11-10 07:53:30 pm

Jumping to the Odrosal door directly is mostly a matter of still having Adrenaline Rush going, which is easier if you don't do the clip I mentioned in my previous comment, because that requires using something like AR. There's a little more to it than that, but because the clip only saves something like five seconds (it might be a little more, but I can't recall), and missing the jump costs more than that, it's a legitimate tradeoff. As I said, that is not my biggest issue with this run. The way I see it, this run and Pendrokar's are fairly even in terms of overall execution - Pendrokar's having less slop, but bigger mistakes - so even though the time could go significantly lower I gave it an accept because of that reasoning.

AntonioPeremin

(user is banned)

2016-11-11 12:27:13 am

Yes,the jump is longer if You have adrenaline rush and full fatigue.

LotBlind

2016-11-11 03:13:19 am

So I'd prefer if the runner was to drop the attitude: you're new on SDA and you clearly don't know how it works. An improvement doesn't mean it'll be accepted, and a lot of runs on here are outdated in terms of strategies, and some are even a bit too sloppy in terms of gameplay if they were induced a long time ago.

I don't see this as you doing SDA some kind of service. Neither is SDA doing you a service. If you're gonna do a run and submit it, prepare to do it well and to incorporate as many tricks from existing runs as possible.

weak accept

AntonioPeremin

(user is banned)

AntonioPeremin

Edit history:

AntonioPeremin: 2016-11-11 09:27:07 am

AntonioPeremin: 2016-11-11 04:58:57 am

2016-11-11 04:44:01 am

Yes LotBlind You´re right, I don´t know how SDA works and I´m a new member .I apologize about my attitude it wasn´t intentional. Sad

ktwo

2016-11-11 05:34:02 am

Since there are currently two submissions in verification, where there is discussion about the decision, I'll take this opportunity to remind about the following section in the verification guidelines (https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Verification_Guidelines ):

Quote:

While, the speedrun community is ever evolving and runs will eventually become outdated, the standards can be controlled at the time of acceptance to the site. Objectively, the ”high quality” criteria for the gameplay can be translated into:

* On par with the fastest runs on the internet for the category
* On par with the fastest runs on the internet for comparable games and categories

This can both mean that some ”world records” should be rejected (typically for games that haven't been optimized enough by the community) and that some ”non-world records” should be accepted (typically for highly competitive games).

If you are not sure what is considered reject-worthy, here is a small list of reject-worthy mistakes:

* A death that costs a significant amount of time.
* A poor, inefficient route and bad planning.
* Using the wrong weapon against enemies or bosses.
* Failing to use the fastest method of movement when it could have easily been used.
* Numerous sloppy minor mistakes (missed jumps, whiffed attacks, failing to perform a shortcut) that cost a significant amount of time (significant depends on the run length).
* Bad rng costing a significant amount of time
* Not skipping skippable cutscenes (unless the in-game timer is used and not running during cutscenes - it's still very much encouraged to skip cutscenes in this case as well though)

Overall, imagine you were in the shoes of the runner. If you think you would have told yourself after the run:
”Wow, that went really well. There were only a few mistakes, bosses were behaving well and the rng was mostly favorable – this time will be hard for me to beat without a considerable effort.”
Then it's probably a good fit for SDA!

A special case worth mentioning is when a submitted run is faster than a run that is currently on the site and yet considerably slower than the fastest runs on the internet (and not submitted to SDA). In this case, the same general rules above apply. That means that improvements are not accepted by default.

This is of course just a guideline and SDA-verification will never be an exact science. It's still worth keeping in mind this section though. All replies that contain a reasoning behind their recommended decision are welcome, regardless of which way they are leaning towards.

Since there are currently two submissions in verification, where there is discussion about the decision, I'll take this opportunity to remind about the following section in the verification guidelines (https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Verification_Guidelines ):

[quote]While, the speedrun community is ever evolving and runs will eventually become outdated, the standards can be controlled at the time of acceptance to the site. Objectively, the ”high quality” criteria for the gameplay can be translated into:

* On par with the fastest runs on the internet for the category
* On par with the fastest runs on the internet for comparable games and categories

This can both mean that some ”world records” should be rejected (typically for games that haven't been optimized enough by the community) and that some ”non-world records” should be accepted (typically for highly competitive games).

If you are not sure what is considered reject-worthy, here is a small list of reject-worthy mistakes:

* A death that costs a significant amount of time.
* A poor, inefficient route and bad planning.
* Using the wrong weapon against enemies or bosses.
* Failing to use the fastest method of movement when it could have easily been used.
* Numerous sloppy minor mistakes (missed jumps, whiffed attacks, failing to perform a shortcut) that cost a significant amount of time (significant depends on the run length).
* Bad rng costing a significant amount of time
* Not skipping skippable cutscenes (unless the in-game timer is used and not running during cutscenes - it's still very much encouraged to skip cutscenes in this case as well though)

Overall, imagine you were in the shoes of the runner. If you think you would have told yourself after the run:
”[i]Wow, that went really well. There were only a few mistakes, bosses were behaving well and the rng was mostly favorable – this time will be hard for me to beat without a considerable effort.[/i]”
Then it's probably a good fit for SDA!

A special case worth mentioning is when a submitted run is faster than a run that is currently on the site and yet considerably slower than the fastest runs on the internet (and not submitted to SDA). In this case, the same general rules above apply. That means that improvements are not accepted by default.[/quote]
This is of course just a guideline and SDA-verification will never be an exact science. It's still worth keeping in mind this section though. All replies that contain a reasoning behind their recommended decision are welcome, regardless of which way they are leaning towards.

Judgy

Edit history:

Judgy: 2016-11-11 06:14:50 am

2016-11-11 06:14:27 am

Borderlands 2 Glitch Hunter/ router.

keeping it concise this time,

A/V: good
Cheating: None
Gameplay: some little issues, nothing worth a reject. This improves upon the current time but could also be improved with more solid execution.

accept (But hoping to see an improvement also, here hoping the runner keeps at it)

LotBlind

2016-11-11 11:45:15 am

Antonio: That's alright! I also hope you'll think about what more you can do to get it a bit closer to the WR, or at least keep running and submitting for other games/categories!

AntonioPeremin

(user is banned)

2016-11-15 09:21:52 am

Yes,I have 2other games in plan to speedrun.

SDAVerification

2016-11-15 11:36:52 am

Decision posted.