Earthworm Jim 3D (Console)

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-04-12 06:03:16 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-02-01 12:31:09 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-23 01:15:47 pm

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Koffingrockz: 2015-01-11 07:30:15 pm

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2015-01-02 05:42:37 pm

A really groovy guy

I have recently picked up the game and it is rather fun for a speed run and I think I will take the game seriously. There is currently a route created by CardinalPickles. However, there are a few problems you may encounter with it. First off his run is on PC which was a problem for me. However I have routed on console and due to version exclusive tricks the runs can be like day and night in certain stages. Second off the run is very very hard to find as it appears all of CardinalPickle's EWJ3D materials were deleted, HOWEVER with a ton of searching I found a run that he did. I will link the run below.
Here is my proposal for multiple categories: A) Full World IL's. This is personally my favorite idea as 5 RNG heavy bosses would wreck a single segment. B) Bob% This would likely be the preferred single segment run as you could potentially skip bosses by collecting extra udders. Routing this would be interesting and I would have to do some research. I can confirm that you need 950 marbles to fight Bob.
I really hope to see this game gain a community even if it is a small one. Good luck everyone out there who is willing to run this game!

Here is the full route for the entire Memory section! http://pastebin.com/AETQUePb
Here is the full route for the entire Happiness section! http://pastebin.com/MqVsAYnj
Here is the full route for the entire Fear section! http://pastebin.com/f1YrHetn
Here is the full route for the entire Fantasy section! http://pastebin.com/0aaNfEZ8

Here is the skips for Bob% http://pastebin.com/x873B05h (OUTDATED will be fixed soon)

There is nothing for bosses in the 100% route as the only way to master the fight is tons of practice. The fight also runs faster on N64 compared to PC which creates much harder controls.
I would also like to note that the fear and fantasy routes will be exactly the same as PC outside of the jump that grabs the udder in the sewer of Boogie Nights, however I will type them up for convenience and for others who want to run this game.
If anything is confusing in my route documentation please say so! I will also make a video tutorial for every level with audio commentary.

Here is an IL table for each level! Please feel free to submit even if you can't record!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15I9RvGkZVIr5iVOnNdQ2AtZrR543pFrfruW8i1zpkg0/edit?usp=sharing

Here are the rules for ILs!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WHb5EvbJiv1_J6FwjqjOI16pq9l7rf58-eL4lwIk-I8/edit?usp=sharing

Timing begins upon the fade to black when entering a level and ends upon collecting the final collectable. (If anyone doesn't agree with this please say so)

General boss knowledge, starts, or even ideas can be posted here! Feel free to edit!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13i8Dv1OEnMLZtFzAgFpInDQyh6L2oLAjncqWb39jsGI/edit?usp=sharing

Thread title:

I have recently picked up the game and it is rather fun for a speed run and I think I will take the game seriously.  There is currently a route created by CardinalPickles.  However, there are a few problems you may encounter with it.  First off his run is on PC which was a problem for me.  However I have routed on console and due to version exclusive tricks the runs can be like day and night in certain stages. Second off the run is very very hard to find as it appears all of CardinalPickle's EWJ3D materials were deleted, HOWEVER with a ton of searching I found a run that he did. I will link the run below.
  Here is my proposal for multiple categories:  A) Full World IL's. This is personally my favorite idea as 5 RNG heavy bosses would wreck a single segment. B) Bob% This would likely be the preferred single segment run as you could potentially skip bosses by collecting extra udders. Routing this would be interesting and I would have to do some research.  I can confirm that you need 950 marbles to fight Bob. 
  I really hope to see this game gain a community even if it is a small one.  Good luck everyone out there who is willing to run this game!

Here is the full route for the entire Memory section! http://pastebin.com/AETQUePb
Here is the full route for the entire Happiness section! http://pastebin.com/MqVsAYnj
Here is the full route for the entire Fear section! http://pastebin.com/f1YrHetn
Here is the full route for the entire Fantasy section! http://pastebin.com/0aaNfEZ8

Here is the skips for Bob% http://pastebin.com/x873B05h (OUTDATED will be fixed soon)

There is nothing for bosses in the 100% route as the only way to master the fight is tons of practice.  The fight also runs faster on N64 compared to PC which creates much harder controls.
I would also like to note that the fear and fantasy routes will be exactly the same as PC outside of the jump that grabs the udder in the sewer of Boogie Nights, however I will type them up for convenience and for others who want to run this game.
If anything is confusing in my route documentation please say so! I will also make a video tutorial for every level with audio commentary.

Here is an IL table for each level! Please feel free to submit even if you can't record!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15I9RvGkZVIr5iVOnNdQ2AtZrR543pFrfruW8i1zpkg0/edit?usp=sharing

Here are the rules for ILs!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WHb5EvbJiv1_J6FwjqjOI16pq9l7rf58-eL4lwIk-I8/edit?usp=sharing

Timing begins upon the fade to black when entering a level and ends upon collecting the final collectable. (If anyone doesn't agree with this please say so)

General boss knowledge, starts, or even ideas can be posted here! Feel free to edit!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13i8Dv1OEnMLZtFzAgFpInDQyh6L2oLAjncqWb39jsGI/edit?usp=sharing

Koffingrockz

2015-01-02 05:44:27 pm

A really groovy guy

Elvis Skip

Koffingrockz

2015-01-02 05:49:19 pm

A really groovy guy

Here is the PC run to show off version exclusive tricks:

CardinalPickles

2015-01-03 08:24:12 am

Nice to see some interest in this game. There is now a currently empty leaderboard over at speedrun.com http://www.speedrun.com/Earthworm_Jim_3D. Sorry about my older full run being deleted, but the SKM2014 run shows everything important, plus the fridge skip. Don't think fridge skip works on console though, I'll test it out soon. Thanks for the Elvis skip, although even with this I feel like the PC version is far superior and the jump height makes for a more exciting run. Nonetheless I look forward to discussing things with you and giving my knowledge to further console investigations. TTYL!

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-04 05:07:53 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-03 10:51:54 am

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-03 10:51:36 am

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Koffingrockz: 2015-01-03 10:17:52 am

2015-01-03 10:16:37 am

A really groovy guy

Fridge skip does work on console! And yes PC is superior as the Coup D'Etat Fence skip, Barn to be wild OOB, and Are you hungry tonite card skip is possible. Also text speed is slower on console typically outside of the opening cutscene. Udder collection animations are also not skippable. The large books in Poultrygeist Too are also hilariously laggy. However, I still would like to speed run the game on console regardless. Console is also harder in certain sections. For example the pickle skip and fridge skip are harder on console and you need to hit a switch to allow the pickle skip to be possible. I have also added 2 additional damage boosts in Lord of the Fries so the level is pretty exciting to watch on console. Also the wall jump skips before poultrygeist are MUCH harder. Also all the jumps in Boogie nights of the living dead work.
I will also be making plenty of tutorial videos for individual stages. I really hope to see this game gain a community as it is a fantastic speed game! Lastly, it may be difficult for me to record runs but I'll have to see what I can do.
Also I just wanted to point out the other day I started a completed file and before anything happened the ending played. I however have no clue what triggered this. I need to know what the exact trigger for the ending is, and whether or not the game saves after beating kim.

Fridge skip does work on console! And yes PC is superior as the Coup D'Etat Fence skip, Barn to be wild OOB, and Are you hungry tonite card skip is possible.  Also text speed is slower on console typically outside of the opening cutscene.  Udder collection animations are also not skippable.  The large books in Poultrygeist Too are also hilariously laggy.  However, I still would like to speed run the game on console regardless.  Console is also harder in certain sections. For example the pickle skip and fridge skip are harder on console and you need to hit a switch to allow the pickle skip to be possible.  I have also added 2 additional damage boosts in Lord of the Fries so the level is pretty exciting to watch on console.  Also the wall jump skips before poultrygeist are MUCH harder.  Also all the jumps in Boogie nights of the living dead work. 
I will also be making plenty of tutorial videos for individual stages. I really hope to see this game gain a community as it is a fantastic speed game! Lastly, it may be difficult for me to record runs but I'll have to see what I can do. 
Also I just wanted to point out the other day I started a completed file and before anything happened the ending played. I however have no clue what triggered this. I need to know what the exact trigger for the ending is, and whether or not the game saves after beating kim.

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-03 05:46:49 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-03 04:58:10 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-03 04:24:53 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-03 04:17:22 pm

2015-01-03 04:13:21 pm

A really groovy guy

New minor OOB skip in Lord of the Fries along with the skip that was missed in the PC run:

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-04 05:08:02 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-04 05:07:22 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-04 05:07:06 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-04 04:48:16 pm

2015-01-04 04:43:25 pm

A really groovy guy

I found a way to get into the bank area early today (You can jump on the phone then over the bars) However the safes will likely still be locked. I will make a practice file to see what happens but regardless this is a timesaver, if it somehow skips the phone game that would be fantastic. Also I made the video tutorial for Barn to be wild, and Lord of the Fries. I highly recommend viewing my tutorial on Lord of the Fries as I make a clip that I discovered that I simply forgot to talk about. I would like to mention that you need the card to make the clip work. I am still unsure on how to execute it. It's just magic.
I would also like to take time to mention the following topic which could lead to minor route changes:
Death warping
A death in this game takes you to the beginning of the stage, which allows you to skip going down the elevator in the brain. This adds 5 seconds due to a death animation however going down the elevator takes 10 seconds. This tactic is only reasonable in Are you hungry Tonite however, due to Barn to be wild taking forever to die and Lord of the Fries requiring Aliens (On another screen) to kill you, however I will still look into this and it may be considered in runs depending on health. However it is very convenient in Are you Hungry as there is lava in the Elvis room in which we normally end.

I found a way to get into the bank area early today (You can jump on the phone then over the bars) However the safes will likely still be locked. I will make a practice file to see what happens but regardless this is a timesaver, if it somehow skips the phone game that would be fantastic. Also I made the video tutorial for Barn to be wild, and Lord of the Fries. I highly recommend viewing my tutorial on Lord of the Fries as I make a clip that I discovered that I simply forgot to talk about. I would like to mention that you need the card to make the clip work. I am still unsure on how to execute it. It's just magic.
I would also like to take time to mention the following topic which could lead to minor route changes:
Death warping
A death in this game takes you to the beginning of the stage, which allows you to skip going down the elevator in the brain. This adds 5 seconds due to a death animation  however going down the elevator takes 10 seconds.  This tactic is only reasonable in Are you hungry Tonite however, due to Barn to be wild taking forever to die and Lord of the Fries requiring Aliens (On another screen) to kill you, however I will still look into this and it may be considered in runs depending on health.  However it is very convenient in Are you Hungry as there is lava in the Elvis room in which we normally end.

CardinalPickles

2015-01-04 09:19:01 pm

I knew about the bank jump but it's useless without opening the safes. Death warping definitely useful wherever it will save time.

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-05 04:55:03 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-05 12:45:07 pm

2015-01-05 12:23:16 pm

A really groovy guy

The bank jump does save a few seconds as it allows you to grab marbles faster (No backtracking through the room) and I will add the potential death warp to the route paste bin. My paste bins for the most part should be complete now but I will fix them if there are any minor optimizations, even small 1 second time savers. My main goal as of now is to find a way to get to the elevator in are you hungry without the use of the key card, as the PC run does.
Also I discovered how "Kim Skip" worked. I just beat her and saved during the ending, the ending is basically stored in the memory so if you reset the ending immediately plays. So in other words it's useless but is silly.

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-06 04:09:28 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-06 12:48:57 pm

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Koffingrockz: 2015-01-06 12:40:22 pm

2015-01-06 12:22:29 pm

A really groovy guy

I am now going to begin officially routing a new category: Bob%. This requires 950 marbles and 49 udders excluding the one from peter. I will make a google doc chart to show timings of individual udders and marble sets so that we can find the fastest route easily. My favorite thing about the route is that no udders are required in all of Fantasy due to not having to fight Kim. I feel like Bob% would make a great alternate to the traditional any% but 100% will still be the main category.
I also found that the entrance exit in Coup D'Etat only saves a second. Therefore, the death warp in Are you Hungry appears to be useless. Sad

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-11 11:09:42 am

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Koffingrockz: 2015-01-08 01:46:38 pm

2015-01-08 12:50:52 pm

A really groovy guy

Here is the link to the completed Google Doc for udders in Bob%:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gklW93EhdlVrO2_JU-8sbUBXYv2bde15JWpi4DQo-E0/edit?usp=sharing

Floogal

2015-01-10 02:30:45 pm

Are you planning on submitting a run to SDA? I don't think Bob% would be a valid category, as it's kind of an arbitrary endpoint.

Yeah, in the absense of that, Earthworm Jim 3D doesn't really have any interesting alternative categories to run. The only difference between 100% and any% is 50 extra marbles (and low% is not applicable), so I would even have trouble justifying those two different runs. Unless, of course, a way to clip past Peter's barrier is found, allowing you to skip right to the final boss from the very beginning....

Actually, on second thought, how about an individual level table for the 5 boss fights? I can guarantee anyone who's played this game would be interested in seeing optimized Porkboarding.

Now, discussion of Bob%....
You can skip 8 of the 57 udders available to unlock Fantasy. This means you can actually skip fighting Professor Monkey-for-a-Head. Since you need to go through all of the other levels anyways to get almost all of the marbles for Bob, you might as well completely skip a level that grants you none. And you can still skip 3 of the other udders. Note that you can't skip Psycrow or Fatty Roswell; there aren't enough udders available before them to unlock the following brain worlds.

Are you planning on submitting a run to SDA?  I don't think Bob% would be a valid category, as it's kind of an arbitrary endpoint.

Yeah, in the absense of that, Earthworm Jim 3D doesn't really have any interesting alternative categories to run.  The only difference between 100% and any% is 50 extra marbles (and low% is not applicable), so I would even have trouble justifying those two different runs.  Unless, of course, a way to clip past Peter's barrier is found, allowing you to skip right to the final boss from the very beginning....

Actually, on second thought, how about an individual level table for the 5 boss fights?  I can guarantee anyone who's played this game would be interested in seeing optimized Porkboarding.

Now, discussion of Bob%....
You can skip 8 of the 57 udders available to unlock Fantasy.  This means you can actually skip fighting Professor Monkey-for-a-Head.  Since you need to go through all of the other levels anyways to get almost all of the marbles for Bob, you might as well completely skip a level that grants you none.  And you can still skip 3 of the other udders.  Note that you can't skip Psycrow or Fatty Roswell; there aren't enough udders available before them to unlock the following brain worlds.

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-11 11:23:17 am

2015-01-11 10:57:45 am

A really groovy guy

I agree that a Bob% category would not be submittable to SDA… It just seems like a fun category to me. The reason I feel that this v=category would be so different is that not a single udder is needed in Fantasy. Also I believe it would be faster to fight Monkey for a Head as a good fight is 3-5 minutes long and the whole skull and bunnies sequence take 5 minutes alone, and that's just 2 udders.

I have made IL table now as that is a wonderful idea. Unfortunately for me I will not be able to stream or record for quite a while but I may be able to produce IL's. I think an IL should be made for each level, because as displayed in my Lord of the Fries tutorial some crazy stuff can happen.

As for boss optimization I have always thought is it faster to bombard Psycrow, Fatty, and Monkey with singular bullets or shoot them 2 times? Typically I know for monkey there is only a net gain of about 5 marbles with a singular because his hotbox is HUGE. As for Bob and Kim sadly it seems to all be luck, you can only pray for double hits. I know if you shoot twice quickly it increases your chances but also hurts if you miss.

You can also only skip 6 udders I believe. After getting the Peter Udder you need 49. There are 40 in stages and 15 from bosses. You are provided with 55 and need 49.

Lastly, I would really like to thank you for joining the community Floogal as this game has been a very fun project for me. I hope to see the community expand more and more to the point where it has a reasonably sized community.

I agree that a Bob% category would not be submittable to SDA… It just seems like a fun category to me.  The reason I feel that this v=category would be so different is that not a single udder is needed in Fantasy.  Also I believe it would be faster to fight Monkey for a Head as a good fight is 3-5 minutes long and the whole skull and bunnies sequence take 5 minutes alone, and that's just 2 udders.

I have made IL table now as that is a wonderful idea.  Unfortunately for me I will not be able to stream or record for quite a while but I may be able to produce IL's.  I think an IL should be made for each level, because as displayed in my Lord of the Fries tutorial some crazy stuff can happen.

As for boss optimization I have always thought is it faster to bombard Psycrow, Fatty, and Monkey with singular bullets or shoot them 2 times?  Typically I know for monkey there is only a net gain of about 5 marbles with a singular because his hotbox is HUGE.  As for Bob and Kim sadly it seems to all be luck, you can only pray for double hits.  I know if you shoot twice quickly it increases your chances but also hurts if you miss.

You can also only skip 6 udders I believe. After getting the Peter Udder you need 49.  There are 40 in stages and 15 from bosses.  You are provided with 55 and need 49.

Lastly, I would really like to thank you for joining the community Floogal as this game has been a very fun project for me.  I hope to see the community expand more and more to the point where it has a reasonably sized community.

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-11 07:30:41 pm

2015-01-11 11:31:33 am

A really groovy guy

I was recently informed by CardinalPickles that it is still possible to go out of bounds in Barn to be Wild to get to the rooftops earlier! I have now edited the route on the paste bin.

Floogal

2015-01-14 10:20:55 am

Oh, when you said you needed 49 udders to unlock Fantasy, I didn't know you were excluding Peter's freebie.

Consider me more of an intrigued spectator than part of the community. This game was so frustrating for me to play, that it holds the honour of being the only console game I've ever sold or given away (after eventually beating it 100% out of pure spite). I still never want to play it again. I'm just interested in the therapeutic satisfaction I'll get from seeing it completely trashed in a speedrun.

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-14 01:20:15 pm

2015-01-14 12:32:31 pm

A really groovy guy

Haha well it's great to have anyone that is aware of it as a speed game. Any contributions or observations are helpful! Even if it's an idea for a new category I'd love it.

Today I created an IL for Coup D'Etat. It was a bit rough I can see 5-10 seconds being shaved off, but it is still decent. I ever noticed how hard it was to optimize the stage.

I also found a new skip in Are You Hungry Tonite

So now Elvis is skipped in about every way possible.

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-15 06:11:30 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-15 05:49:56 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-15 05:37:35 pm

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-15 05:35:53 pm

2015-01-15 05:02:20 pm

A really groovy guy

I want to change the rules for IL's so that you don't need to make a new game in order to start a file. If anyone has an idea to get around this it would be greatly appreciated. Bosses are still great for IL's however which should be fun. I do have one idea, and it is that I will create new routes for the stages with minorly tweaked differences to stay true to the segmented times while still using a completed file.

Coup D'Etat (Keep the exact same as any%, just restart files and collect everything. Timing ends on final udder)
Barn to Be Wild (Skip the crow as he is no longer there, everything else stays the same, timing ends on last marble)
Lord of the Fries (Do not use the 2 platforms that are made from talking to the pickle until after pickle skip, timing ends after hot sauce final text)
Are you Hungry Tonite (http://pastebin.com/R5rhxt65 timing ends on last marble)
Poultrygeist (Skip killing all the chickens, timing ends on last marble)
Poultrygeist Too (Timing ends on final marble, don't collect final udder as timing would be difficult)
Death Wormed Up (Skip killing the bats, get balloon early. Still return the coin. Timing ends on last marble)
Boogie Nights of the Living Dead (Timing ends when Jim's feet touch the ground when collecting the final sewer udder)
Violent Death Valley (Skip all outhouse men that are already killed. Timing ends on last marble)
The Good the Bad and the Elderly (Timing ends on last marble, still go through phone game)

The IL routes will still follow any% and will at least touch/trigger every udder outside of the final udder in poultrygeist Too. If there is any disagreements please tell me, I don't want to make the rules unfair. I feel like the IL's will still outline most of the skill needed to complete the levels. Good luck everyone I really hope to see lots of IL's!

I want to change the rules for IL's so that you don't need to make a new game in order to start a file.  If anyone has an idea to get around this it would be greatly appreciated.  Bosses are still great for IL's however which should be fun. I do have one idea, and it is that I will create new routes for the stages with minorly tweaked differences to stay true to the segmented times while still using a completed file.

Coup D'Etat (Keep the exact same as any%, just restart files and collect everything. Timing ends on final udder)
Barn to Be Wild (Skip the crow as he is no longer there, everything else stays the same, timing ends on last marble)
Lord of the Fries (Do not use the 2 platforms that are made from talking to the pickle until after pickle skip, timing ends after hot sauce final text)
Are you Hungry Tonite (http://pastebin.com/R5rhxt65 timing ends on last marble)
Poultrygeist (Skip killing all the chickens, timing ends on last marble)
Poultrygeist Too (Timing ends on final marble, don't collect final udder as timing would be difficult)
Death Wormed Up (Skip killing the bats, get balloon early. Still return the coin. Timing ends on last marble)
Boogie Nights of the Living Dead (Timing ends when Jim's feet touch the ground when collecting the final sewer udder)
Violent Death Valley (Skip all outhouse men that are already killed. Timing ends on last marble)
The Good the Bad and the Elderly (Timing ends on last marble, still go through phone game)

The IL routes will still follow any% and will at least touch/trigger every udder outside of the final udder in poultrygeist Too.  If there is any disagreements please tell me, I don't want to make the rules unfair.  I feel like the IL's will still outline most of the skill needed to complete the levels.  Good luck everyone I really hope to see lots of IL's!

CardinalPickles

2015-01-16 06:29:29 am

I guess that's probably the best way to go if you want to make IL times a thing, but it doesn't really fit when a single segment run would be even slightly different. IMO there's no need for and IL leaderboard - not every game needs one (e.g. SM64), but I'm not going to fuss if you want to go through with those routes. Optimisation will still happen without IL repetition.

Floogal

2015-01-16 01:22:58 pm

I would argue that only the bosses are suitable for an IL table. They're a self-contained minigame, exactly the same every time you play them. Also, the regular levels shouldn't be very much different between a single-segment or IL table, but the bosses will probably be significantly more optimized & RNG-favourable in an IL table.

Koffingrockz

2015-01-16 01:48:53 pm

A really groovy guy

I feel with the current IL rules it definitely helps cover the fundamentals.
Here is a list of the stuff that is skipped with the IL rules:

Crow
Card 1 in Are you Hungry
Chicken mob in Poultrygeist
Bat mob in Death Wormed Up
Outhouse guys in Violent Death Valley
Getting the key to open the door

Not much time can be lost in these events outside of the crow mob.
I honestly like the idea of an IL table for all stages but it's up to you guys as well as it is a collaborative decision.

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-19 06:09:25 pm

2015-01-18 02:36:50 pm

A really groovy guy

The Barn To Be Wild route has been changed with the new crow route.

I will now move on to IL's as I feel really happy with the 100% route now.

Floogal

2015-01-20 05:09:28 am

I'm still of the opinion that an IL table is only necessary for bosses. An IL table for the regular levels is about as redundant as an IL table for the original Earthworm Jim (quality should be similar to a full-game run's). Worse, actually, as you've already mentioned the issue of not being able to start "fresh" on some of the levels, which, in my opinion, is the only way to properly run IL's.

The only reason I mentioned a table for the bosses is that they are so difficult & luck-based that they would be much more optimized than anything you could ever get out of a full-game run. In fact, if I were a verifier, I would be willing to accept a boss table before getting a fullgame run (but it better be good!).

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-20 01:59:28 pm

2015-01-20 01:52:10 pm

A really groovy guy

I completely agree that it may appear redundant, due to that I will work on boss IL's first and they will be my main priority for a while. I just think stage IL's are fun because they still show off the main skills for each stage. I'll still create stage IL's anyways just because I don't understand how it could be completely bad. The routes are for the most part 95-100% accurate according to the single segment stages. I understand it takes away from the point of an IL but honestly to me producing IL's should be done in the same way as when you practice. Most of the things that are skipped are just some minor "boring stuff" and now with my new crow route in Barn to be Wild the crow is pretty much irrelevant. I don't want to sound like I'm arguing, I completely agree it's not a perfect idea but it is still a good enough idea. Also I don't feel there is a need as of now for major authenticity in a not very well known speed game. I feel any data that would help increase general knowledge would be helpful. Making IL's is also great for practice.
As for general boss strategy I have noticed the following
A) Bosses movements are loosely based on yours (I get the same patterns every fight until I branch off of my path in Psycrow, Bob, and Kim. I have not tested others but I'm sure it's consistent)
B) Bosses always go to missiles. (This can be used in at least Kim to manipulate her movement, I believe she turns if you collect a missile when you are near her)
C) Diagonal inputs help make sharp turns
D) For the love of Peter DO NOT touch Kim if you are about to get 100 marbles
E) If you hit Kim with a missile after killing her the ending will not trigger
F) Monkey for a Head has a large hitbox and will pick up many marbles after hitting him, therefore it is best to hit him with a stream of singular bullets.
G) You can double hit bosses that jump, but more will have to be researched. I believe you must put a 2-4 frame gap in-between bullets and positioning matters.
H) Bullets can explode on the small slope if Kim is above you, also if you shoot Kim when she is facing sideways your bullet loops around and misses.
I) When fighting Fatty always collect 2 missiles to manipulate teleports as he usually teleports to missiles.

Lastly I just want to say don't be afraid to submit any boss IL's. If it's a 20 minute fight I don't mind because the time will be improved as more.
Sorry for so much text, I hope this helps.

I completely agree that it may appear redundant, due to that I will work on boss IL's first and they will be my main priority for a while.  I just think stage IL's are fun because they still show off the main skills for each stage.  I'll still create stage IL's anyways just because I don't understand how it could be completely bad.  The routes are for the most part 95-100% accurate according to the single segment stages.  I understand it takes away from the point of an IL but honestly to me producing IL's should be done in the same way as when you practice.  Most of the things that are skipped are just some minor "boring stuff" and now with my new crow route in Barn to be Wild the crow is pretty much irrelevant. I don't want to sound like I'm arguing, I completely agree it's not a perfect idea but it is still a good enough idea.  Also I don't feel there is a need as of now for major authenticity in a not very well known speed game.  I feel any data that would help increase general knowledge would be helpful. Making IL's is also great for practice.
As for general boss strategy I have noticed the following
A) Bosses movements are loosely based on yours (I get the same patterns every fight until I branch off of my path in Psycrow, Bob, and Kim. I have not tested others but I'm sure it's consistent)
B) Bosses always go to missiles. (This can be used in at least Kim to manipulate her movement, I believe she turns if you collect a missile when you are near her)
C) Diagonal inputs help make sharp turns
D) For the love of Peter DO NOT touch Kim if you are about to get 100 marbles
E) If you hit Kim with a missile after killing her the ending will not trigger
F) Monkey for a Head has a large hitbox and will pick up many marbles after hitting him, therefore it is best to hit him with a stream of singular bullets.
G) You can double hit bosses that jump, but more will have to be researched. I believe you must put a 2-4 frame gap in-between bullets and positioning matters.
H) Bullets can explode on the small slope if Kim is above you, also if you shoot Kim when she is facing sideways your bullet loops around and misses.
I) When fighting Fatty always collect 2 missiles to manipulate teleports as he usually teleports to missiles.

Lastly I just want to say don't be afraid to submit any boss IL's. If it's a 20 minute fight I don't mind because the time will be improved as more.
Sorry for so much text, I hope this helps.

CardinalPickles

2015-01-21 09:13:33 am

My #1 tip: Fatty doesn't teleport under a certain marble count, I think it's around 6 or 7.

Also, if they are carrying a missile and are too close to you they will not shoot (obvious exception being kim).

Koffingrockz

Edit history:

Koffingrockz: 2015-01-21 12:59:37 pm

2015-01-21 12:48:33 pm

A really groovy guy

That's a good idea with Fatty, I noticed that he was extremely mean in your SKM run, maybe the AI is different on PC? But regardless that is a great idea.
I recommend for Fatty spacing out missile shots a bit so that one missile may have a chance of re-homing on to his new position.

One tip for Kim is when you hit her do not even attempt to collect marbles until she is completely gone or you will get touched 9/10 times. For an IL maybe go for the last marble, it may result in death but it would save time. But I think my strat for an IL will be the following:
A) Collect the 60 or so marbles from the start
B) Get a double hit (If it fails reset)
C) Immediately grab 2 missiles
D) Single hit (If her marble count is above 15 pray for a double)
E) Get close and "Cleanup" as marbles fall and hit again if needed
There is RNG based on how many marbles Kim picks up and which direction marbles go in. I think I've maxed out getting 64-65 marbles at the start, so a double hit could leave her with only 5-6 marbles and she will typically pick up around 5 or so. Kim's AI is set up for her to collect missiles, not marbles so if there are 3 close around her she does not prioritize them. A 2 cycle seems possible so I feel Kim is definitely the easiest to optimize as now there is a rough route, as for the other bosses it's just praying for the best. Also I would like to say I am not by any stretch of the imagination calling the fight easy, it is going to be silly hard getting a fight this perfect but at least we know how.

Also the getting close suggestion is more of a safe strat to me. I once did that with monkey for a head and he would not stop following me. It was actually kind of hilarious because I tried everything I could to shake him off, I had to use an ego boost eventually.

That's a good idea with Fatty, I noticed that he was extremely mean in your SKM run, maybe the AI is different on PC? But regardless that is a great idea.
I recommend for Fatty spacing out missile shots a bit so that one missile may have a chance of re-homing on to his new position.

One tip for Kim is when you hit her do not even attempt to collect marbles until she is completely gone or you will get touched 9/10 times. For an IL maybe go for the last marble, it may result in death but it would save time.  But I think my strat for an IL will be the following: 
A) Collect the 60 or so marbles from the start
B) Get a double hit (If it fails reset)
C) Immediately grab 2 missiles
D) Single hit (If her marble count is above 15 pray for a double)
E) Get close and "Cleanup" as marbles fall and hit again if needed
There is RNG based on how many marbles Kim picks up and which direction marbles go in.  I think I've maxed out getting 64-65 marbles at the start, so a double hit could leave her with only 5-6 marbles and she will typically pick up around 5 or so.  Kim's AI is set up for her to collect missiles, not marbles so if there are 3 close around her she does not prioritize them. A 2 cycle seems possible so I feel Kim is definitely the easiest to optimize as now there is a rough route, as for the other bosses it's just praying for the best.  Also I would like to say I am not by any stretch of the imagination calling the fight easy, it is going to be silly hard getting a fight this perfect but at least we know how.

Also the getting close suggestion is more of a safe strat to me.  I once did that with monkey for a head and he would not stop following me.  It was actually kind of hilarious because I tried everything I could to shake him off, I had to use an ego boost eventually.