EarthBound

2013-10-11 06:08:49 pm

A translation for that would be neat. I'd like to try it out a bit

2013-10-13 07:57:33 pm

So, most of the annotations describe how he does luck manipulation before daybreak. The details on the glitch itself are in this post. Here is what I could gather:

Before checking the spot, Ness's shadow should be touching the right edge of the map. If Ness is even slightly separated from the edge, the amount of lag when checking the spot increases.

Check the spot while holding down the Y button on the second player controller. You want to get the text っウダイずオ followed by ひロひロ. From here, some more scrolling text can appear until it's interrupted by an empty text box. The runner estimates there is a 0.5% chance per "check" of getting this empty box.

On the empty text box, hold left-down-right and RX on the 1P controller. Tap Y on the 2P controller, and then press A on the 1P controller 11 or 13 frames later to dismiss the empty box and bring up the debug menu. Left-down-right and RX should still be held when the A button is pressed.

To make it possible to hold left-down-right on the d-pad, it looks like the runner had to cut off the up direction on the d-pad, and then grind down the pivot underneath.

In the 9-minute TAS, the runners held down-right-ABY on the 1P controller instead. I don't know if this is due to a version difference or if one method is harder than the other, but at least the TAS confirms this run is possible with an unmodified controller.

So, most of the annotations describe how he does luck manipulation before daybreak. The details on the glitch itself are in [url=http://ch.nicovideo.jp/nou/blomaga/ar356566]this post[/url]. Here is what I could gather:

Before checking the spot, Ness's shadow should be touching the right edge of the map. If Ness is even slightly separated from the edge, the amount of lag when checking the spot increases.

Check the spot while holding down the Y button on the second player controller. You want to get the text っウダイずオ followed by ひロひロ. From here, some more scrolling text can appear until it's interrupted by an empty text box. The runner estimates there is a 0.5% chance per "check" of getting this empty box.

On the empty text box, hold left-down-right and RX on the 1P controller. Tap Y on the 2P controller, and then press A on the 1P controller 11 or 13 frames later to dismiss the empty box and bring up the debug menu. Left-down-right and RX should still be held when the A button is pressed.

To make it possible to hold left-down-right on the d-pad, it looks like the runner had to cut off the up direction on the d-pad, and then grind down the pivot underneath.

In the [url=http://tasvideos.org/3406S.html#ExplanationsOn2pInputTextBasedRamEtc]9-minute TAS[/url], the runners held down-right-ABY on the 1P controller instead. I don't know if this is due to a version difference or if one method is harder than the other, but at least the TAS confirms this run is possible with an unmodified controller.

Caleb Hart

2013-10-15 02:53:03 pm

SDA Represent!

Quick question for the new All Sanctuaries route: How much time would JP save for All Sanctuaries? I just noticed the 4:24 (Wow) run.

__sdfg

Edit history:

__sdfg: 2013-10-16 07:34:29 pm

2013-10-16 06:03:48 pm

D:

The faster text speed in Mother 2 saves a lot of time. I checked an RTA leaderboard that I bookmarked a while ago and it linked to the nico profile of someone with a 4:00:23 run -- and that's RTA timing, so it goes all the way to the end of the game rather than stopping at Giygas (making it more than 40 minutes faster than my PB).

I don't know if that run fits the glitchless category, but I remember skateman saying that the full-game Mother 2 RTAs are normally glitchless, so it seems likely that it is. It looks like there's an archived copy of the run on justin.tv, actually (part 1 - part 2), so it should be pretty easy to verify. I'll probably look at it after dinner or something.

EDIT: I checked the spots where the wall-clip glitches are commonly used and did not see them in this run, so I believe it would fit the glitchless category.

I also noticed some strats I need to test (walking to the east of the pyramid exit when you have Dungeon Man with you, and using an Exit mouse in Dungeon Man).

Also, I've apparently been doing RTA timing wrong. The timer in the linked run started at power-on, not after confirming the character names. :/

The faster text speed in Mother 2 saves a lot of time.  I checked an RTA leaderboard that I bookmarked a while ago and it linked to the [url=http://com.nicovideo.jp/community/co1344188]nico profile[/url] of someone with a 4:00:23 run -- and that's RTA timing, so it goes all the way to the end of the game rather than stopping at Giygas (making it more than 40 minutes faster than my PB).

I don't know if that run fits the glitchless category, but I remember skateman saying that the full-game Mother 2 RTAs are normally glitchless, so it seems likely that it is.  It looks like there's an archived copy of the run on justin.tv, actually ([url=http://www.justin.tv/menbou2323/c/2707482]part 1[/url] - [url=http://www.justin.tv/menbou2323/c/2707475]part 2[/url]), so it should be pretty easy to verify.  I'll probably look at it after dinner or something.

EDIT:  I checked the spots where the wall-clip glitches are commonly used and did not see them in this run, so I believe it would fit the glitchless category.

I also noticed some strats I need to test (walking to the east of the pyramid exit when you have Dungeon Man with you, and using an Exit mouse in Dungeon Man).

Also, I've apparently been doing RTA timing wrong.  The timer in the linked run started at power-on, not after confirming the character names. :/

andyperfect

Edit history:

andyperfect: 2013-10-17 07:25:16 pm

2013-10-17 07:18:59 pm

Is the Japanese version really that much faster? I only watched the first segment, but the fights with the dog, starman jr, and the punks just seem off. It felt like a turbo controller was being used or something similar.

__sdfg

2013-10-17 07:53:11 pm

D:

I think most Japanese RPG runners use turbo. I guess that contributes a lot to the speed difference, too.

Actually, now that you mention it, I remember seeing one RTA where the runner was using B-turbo to advance battle text and had like 10 errant button presses every time he got back to the menu. It was really confusing until I figured out what was going on.

BTW welcome to SDA. Smiley

andyperfect

2013-10-17 08:19:06 pm

Why thank you -- I figured I've been running this game so long, I might as well start getting to know the original runners of the game Smiley

andyperfect

Edit history:

andyperfect: 2013-11-17 01:51:04 am

2013-11-17 01:43:21 am

Hey everyone! I know that, once again, glitchless runs aren't very SDA-ish, but it's the category that currently interests me the most, so I thought I'd give you all an update on where I stand with the RTA glitchless runs. Earlier today, I recorded a run that, from "Yep" to The final prayer executed by Paula to kill Giygas, my time was 4:19:14, the fastest English RTA that I'm aware of. I hit "The End?" at 4:36:00. I had some excellent areas throughout the run and some lousy areas as well. I actually killed Titanic Ant at 21:40, which is the fastest I've seen anyone hit that kill. I ran into some lousy luck in Peaceful Rest Valley and in the desert before Fourside, but it all balanced out in the end.

After this run and seeing the time still left to save, I think it's possible to record a single segment run that's sub 4:10, which is my new goal.

Link to the run: http://www.twitch.tv/andyperfect/c/3253096

__sdfg

2013-11-17 08:40:02 am

D:

Glitchless might as well be an SDA category at this point given that nobody's running anything other than that and any%. :/ You need to start playing on console so you can submit your runs, though. Tongue

Grats on cutting 4:20! I think you're getting close to the point where you need most of the game to go well rather than just keeping anything from going wrong. I haven't had the chance to watch your run yet, though, so maybe there's more time to save than I realize. Anyway, I hope getting under 4:10 isn't too much trouble.

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2013-11-29 04:32:30 pm

2013-11-29 04:28:13 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

It's more than just text speed that contributes to better times in Mother 2. Menu selection is much faster since there is no lag (meaning when you bring up the menus or screens in general, there is no delay, as well as actually selecting items), and cursor movement in battles is much faster. Faster text also makes battles go much faster as well.

Deuceler

2013-11-29 04:48:24 pm

SPEEDruns not SAFEruns

I know japanese runners are allowed to us turbo in most instances, and it's encouraged in a lot of cases

__sdfg

2013-12-05 10:37:50 pm

D:

I have some info that might be of use to people who are interested in learning to run this.

First, nemi set up an EarthBound page on the SDA Knowledgebase in November: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Earthbound. There's a complete overview of nemi's any% route there ("Stairs Glitch Route" because I guess using the debug menu is technically also any% :P), so if you'd like to learn that route, you can check that page out. I also added my glitchless route a couple days ago, so people who want to work on that can learn from it and/or correct what I'm doing wrong.

The other thing I want to mention is that I recorded a complete trainwreck of a video trying to explain how I manipulate the RNG up to Starman Junior: http://www.twitch.tv/uusdfg/c/3348970. Be sure to read the description on that highlight: it contains information that I forgot to include in the video because I couldn't reproduce the other RNG case >_<. Maybe I'll record a better video someday. As the video shows, the route could still be made more consistent, but it's been working well enough for me on console with help from muscle memory and whatnot. If you watch the video and you still have questions (you will), this thread's a great place to ask since there are a bunch of people who can help.

Hope to see more people involved!

I have some info that might be of use to people who are interested in learning to run this.

First, nemi set up an EarthBound page on the SDA Knowledgebase in November:  [url]https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Earthbound[/url].  There's a complete overview of nemi's any% route there ("Stairs Glitch Route" because I guess using the debug menu is technically also any% :P), so if you'd like to learn that route, you can check that page out.  I also added my glitchless route a couple days ago, so people who want to work on that can learn from it and/or correct what I'm doing wrong.

The other thing I want to mention is that I recorded a complete trainwreck of a video trying to explain how I manipulate the RNG up to Starman Junior:  [url]http://www.twitch.tv/uusdfg/c/3348970[/url].  Be sure to read the description on that highlight:  it contains information that I forgot to include in the video because I couldn't reproduce the other RNG case >_<.  Maybe I'll record a better video someday.  As the video shows, the route could still be made more consistent, but it's been working well enough for me on console with help from muscle memory and whatnot.  If you watch the video and you still have questions (you will), this thread's a great place to ask since there are a bunch of people who can help.

Hope to see more people involved!

__sdfg

2013-12-17 08:52:07 pm

D:

This happened to me yesterday while I was trying to fix my EzCap's color balance (I can't fix it). I spent the evening seeing if I could get it to happen and/or not happen consistently, which mostly resulted in freaking out about whether my cart's battery was dying and doing weird things to my SRAM. Tonight, I was able to make it happen in BizHawk, so I'm pretty sure it's an actual bug in the game, unless BizHawk is so accurate that it can randomly decide to simulate a dying save battery.

It sometimes happens when I load a save, teleport into Fourside and ride the bus into Dusty Dunes. Sometimes, it doesn't happen. I don't know what causes it to happen or not happen.

This game is stupid. :/

Attachment:

Stupid EarthBound bus text bug.png

andyperfect

Edit history:

andyperfect: 2013-12-18 02:32:29 pm

2013-12-18 02:31:55 pm

Ugh, some of these capture cards seem like they're more trouble than they're worth. Hope you get the problems sorted out. And that bug is extremely bizarre. Does the game lock up at that point or is it just a text mishap?

__sdfg

2013-12-18 05:58:29 pm

D:

It's just a text bug, as far as I can tell. I don't know if the underlying bug could be exploited to do anything with the game's control codes. I don't really know what's going on.

Also, both of my capture cards are working now. One doesn't get the color balance quite right and the other has an issue where the screen sometimes shifts a couple pixels for a frame or two. They're good enough for streaming and recording, they just aren't as good as I want them to be.

MUGG

2014-01-08 03:33:05 pm

TASer

All I can say is that when I played through the game once, I had a text bug happen somewhere in the final battle. It's an occurrence in the game that isn't uncommon.

Lyndis

2014-01-12 07:18:09 pm

Hey all! I'm new here. I was inspired by the recent insanely successful SDA marathon, and I'm thinking about giving Earthbound a try. I'm curious why there is only one submission on the site when there seem to be several categories listed on the wiki (any%, no major glitches, etc). If I recorded, say, a successful glitch run, would I have to beat the current JP record holder in order for it to even be posted, even though his is only linked on the wiki and not the regular site? Sorry if it's a dumb question, I'm obviously new to all this Wink

__sdfg

2014-01-12 09:10:16 pm

D:

Hi, Lyndis! Welcome.

The reason the site still only has the one old run is that there haven't been many runs submitted since then. Skateman222 submitted one of his early glitchless runs a couple years ago, but it wasn't very optimized yet. In December, though, Nemi submitted a strong run in the stairs glitch category, so that run should be going up in a month or two.

Regarding records, you wouldn't need to beat the JP leaderboard times, for a couple reasons. One is that SDA isn't exactly a records site. If the record holder for a game doesn't want to submit the record or doesn't have an acceptable recording of it, it's okay for someone else to submit a slower run as long as the run is still good enough. The other reason is that the text in Mother 2 is a lot faster than the text in EarthBound, so if you were playing EarthBound, you'd have a natural disadvantage vs. the JP times. If you're planning on running Mother 2, though, the second reason obviously doesn't apply. Tongue

Also, if you're interested in the fastest glitched categories, I recommend checking with one of the site admins about whether a run that uses the debug menu would be accepted. SDA doesn't accept runs that use cheat codes and I think debug menus are also usually disallowed, but because the menu is opened via a glitch in EarthBound rather than a code, I'm not 100% sure SDA would forbid it. The best way to ask would probably be to start a thread in the SDA Discussion board. Many of the admins are still at AGDQ, though, so they might be slower to respond than usual.

Hi, Lyndis!  Welcome.

The reason the site still only has the one old run is that there haven't been many runs submitted since then.  Skateman222 submitted one of his early glitchless runs a couple years ago, but it wasn't very optimized yet.  In December, though, Nemi submitted a strong run in the stairs glitch category, so that run should be going up in a month or two.

Regarding records, you wouldn't need to beat the JP leaderboard times, for a couple reasons.  One is that SDA isn't exactly a records site.  If the record holder for a game doesn't want to submit the record or doesn't have an acceptable recording of it, it's okay for someone else to submit a slower run as long as the run is still good enough.  The other reason is that the text in Mother 2 is a lot faster than the text in EarthBound, so if you were playing EarthBound, you'd have a natural disadvantage vs. the JP times.  If you're planning on running Mother 2, though, the second reason obviously doesn't apply. :P

Also, if you're interested in the fastest glitched categories, I recommend checking with one of the site admins about whether a run that uses the debug menu would be accepted.  SDA doesn't accept runs that use cheat codes and I think debug menus are also usually disallowed, but because the menu is opened via a glitch in EarthBound rather than a code, I'm not 100% sure SDA would forbid it.  The best way to ask would probably be to start a thread in the [url=https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/board/sda_discussion.html]SDA Discussion[/url] board.  Many of the admins are still at AGDQ, though, so they might be slower to respond than usual.

Lyndis

2014-01-13 09:47:26 am

I see, thanks for the info! I was considering either the debug menu, or the stairs glitching. The former, even if SDA allows it, seems to require some tool-assisted stuff to reliably work I think? If that's the case then I'd definitely go for the latter. Though an earlier post talks about the JP guy pressing certain buttons while checking the Onett spot, so maybe that's all you have to do.

I actually have a copy of Mother 2 and was considering that. I've seen players in marathons doing the JP version of games like Zelda for faster times, and it didn't occur to me that they might be in their own category due to that. I think it might be fun for a native English speaker to try it. I know Earthbound pretty well and I also know some Japanese, but I'm far from perfect at it, so it would probably take considerable practice. Grin

andyperfect

2014-01-13 11:28:56 am

Welcome to the community, Lyndis! __sdfg pretty much covered everything but I just wanted say hi. Keep us updated on your progress!

Lyndis

2014-01-13 02:00:39 pm

I just took a look at Nemi's stairs glitch run, and I feel super intimidated now. Shocked

I don't think I stand a chance at doing better than that, unless Mother 2 can be put into its own category (and if I don't suck at it).

__sdfg@work

2014-01-13 03:22:51 pm

Yeah, nemi's run is pretty crazy. It's beatable -- IIRC andyperfect's fastest time beating Captain Strong is a minute or two faster than the time in nemi's run -- but it will take a lot of practice to get all the tricks and manipulation down, and a fair amount of luck on top of that.

A run of Mother 2 would go into a different category than a run of EarthBound because the text and menu speed differences affect the gameplay. However, because nemi's run has been accepted to the site, a new run of Mother 2 would need to be of similar quality to be accepted. So, it's likely that you'd need to either do the late-game luck manipulation or find a faster strategy.

Still, you shouldn't feel too intimidated until you've tried. ^_^

andyperfect

Edit history:

andyperfect: 2014-01-13 04:29:52 pm

andyperfect: 2014-01-13 04:29:16 pm

2014-01-13 04:27:41 pm

Yeah, nemi43's Onett could be improved by a couple minutes (his kill time was 27:55, I think my fastest captain strong is low 26 minutes. The rest of his run is pretty solid though. Definitely give it a try though! There's pretty much always room for improvement in any Earthbound category, no matter how good it seems, RNGods be willing.

and __sdfg is being too modest, his captain strong times are just as good as (if not better than) mine Cheesy

Lyndis

2014-01-13 08:42:42 pm

I think I'd be all right with the luck manipulation, but the things you have to do to get it to work right in Mother 2 are apparently different than in Earthbound. Somebody earlier in this thread (or maybe it was in a Youtube comment?) explained how to do the Threed zombie spawn in M2, but I have no idea if an English speaker knows how to manipulate the enemies in Magicant. Anyone? Wink

As far as I know, those are the two major spots you need to do it.

andyperfect

Edit history:

andyperfect: 2014-01-13 08:55:27 pm

2014-01-13 08:55:14 pm

Manipulating RNG is all about consistent testing using an emulator (usually bizhawk) where you can watch the RNG. Earthbound uses two 8 bit values to determine all RNG in the game. When you reset the game, these values are always set to the same thing. So, you go to magicant, reset, and then you have consistent rng values to play with. It's basically trial and error as you route the area.

Save state, walk forward. Enemy? reload, change rng, then walk forward. Still enemy? reload, change rng twice, walk forward. No enemy? Note that, create another save state, and move forward.

If you want more information on how this works, I'd check out the RNG sections on http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/SNES/Earthbound.html