EarthBound

2009-02-14 04:49:39 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Impressive run. And the commentary rules as well.

One thing that bugged me though. When giving rockets to Jeff (before getting Poo), why didn't you go left directly to Jeff? Might've saved some time.

(Listen to me, talking like I know what I'm talking about, heh)

Mickey_Mage

2009-02-14 04:51:39 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

If that was one of the few menu errors, it wouldn't save that much time, lol. Wasn't that one of the longer segments?

derfy

Edit history:

derfy: 2009-02-14 05:12:50 pm

2009-02-14 05:05:25 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I dunno, I just picked up on it for some reason. It probably doesn't matter.

But like I said, awesome run. I loved this game when I was a kid. If you haven't played it, this run really doesn't spoil anything (besides the end 'n stuff.) cause there's SO much to do. Just remember to buy the shack in Onett before Giygas takes over...

Also: "Your expectations for the Internet are unreasonably high" is going to be my new sig, everywhere. Smiley

DoubleThink

2009-02-14 08:04:41 pm

There's a word for that

Great run, very well-planned and full of good ideas. A pleasure to watch! Smiley

Also, ferrets! It's awesome that there's finally a run of this game up on the site, and I have a feeling this one will be sticking around for a while. Did the timing of the run take lag into account? I guess it doesn't matter that much, provided the game lags mostly equally on all consoles.

mikwuyma

2009-02-14 09:03:52 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote from DoubleThink:

Great run, very well-planned and full of good ideas. A pleasure to watch! Smiley

Also, ferrets! It's awesome that there's finally a run of this game up on the site, and I have a feeling this one will be sticking around for a while. Did the timing of the run take lag into account? I guess it doesn't matter that much, provided the game lags mostly equally on all consoles.

Why would we take slowdown into account? It's the runner's responsibility to prevent slowdown. Tongue

Mickey_Mage

2009-02-15 03:04:07 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Quote from DoubleThink:

Great run, very well-planned and full of good ideas. A pleasure to watch! Smiley

Also, ferrets! It's awesome that there's finally a run of this game up on the site, and I have a feeling this one will be sticking around for a while. Did the timing of the run take lag into account? I guess it doesn't matter that much, provided the game lags mostly equally on all consoles.

Lag is never taken into account because it's something that just happens in older systems anyway; because the processor can't take it. It's kind of built into the system itself.

chedda

2009-02-16 04:38:50 pm

awsome run

audio commentary was great other than the fact you fail to include fallout 1 and 2 as games with rolling counters

this also begs the question of why games with rolling counters kick so much ass

mcbroiler

2009-02-16 10:28:48 pm

Run, you pigeons. It's Robert Frost!

I've never played Earthbound, but it seemed like the rolling counters in it allow you to attack etc while your hit points are dropping. Fallout doesn't work that way, unless I'm remember incorrectly. When you get hit it fallout 1 and 2, you have to watch your hit points scroll down and then you get to act, right>

mobilisq

2009-02-17 02:31:55 pm

WHAT

commentary on the commentary: it is possible to get rid of the sound stone by filling up your inventory with cookies right at teh beginning of the game

buzz buzz cant give it to you so he sends it to your sister instead

dont know why i found it necessary to mention this but hey, what the hell

mastrblastr

2009-02-18 04:25:06 am

Random Question. If paula has the pencil eraser in her inventory when she's kidnapped, is it impossible to continue the game because you can't see dalah rama?

Idkbutlike2

2009-02-18 05:01:52 am

No, in fact if that happens, in fact that's happened to me. Ness' sister calls you saying that the Pencil Eraser she had will be delivered to you via Escargo Express. It will cost you $18, but you will get it back.

Mickey_Mage

2009-02-18 01:37:55 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

That happens with any important item if someone is taken away for a little while, I believe. I think that happened to me when I gave the Hawk Eye to Poo once.

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2010-03-15 05:34:11 pm

2010-03-15 03:24:19 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

ABOVE IS BOTH THE SKIP FOR THE FIRST WALL ABOVE THE TUNNEL, SECOND, AND THE THIRD! Done by me (my youtube name has never been the same as this name), and this was not TASed, but a legit attempt, minus using a savestate before starting the recording.

They were not all done in one attempt, but the third video started after I did a full attempt to get to the third wall. I only used 5 skip sandwiches total, and I know that a speedrunner could get good enough to pull it off with one on each.

Maybe this has already been done by many people, and I didn't know about it, but I can't find a video of this on youtube anywhere of this done legitly. These are a collection of videos getting me to threed, using skip sandwiches, and no slowdowns were used, just one savestate per video before recording. I'm sure I can do this on console now; it'll just take a shitload more work with restarts...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWiPXCZn0b4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIR8yKqz3bo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUqohZt2u2Y

ABOVE IS BOTH THE SKIP FOR THE FIRST WALL ABOVE THE TUNNEL, SECOND, AND THE THIRD! Done by me (my youtube name has never been the same as this name), and this was not TASed, but a legit attempt, minus using a savestate before starting the recording.

They were not all done in one attempt, but the third video started after I did a full attempt to get to the third wall. I only used 5 skip sandwiches total, and I know that a speedrunner could get good enough to pull it off with one on each.

Maybe this has already been done by many people, and I didn't know about it, but I can't find a video of this on youtube anywhere of this done legitly. These are a collection of videos getting me to threed, using skip sandwiches, and no slowdowns were used, just one savestate per video before recording. I'm sure I can do this on console now; it'll just take a shitload more work with restarts...

__sdfg

2010-03-15 06:00:48 pm

D:

Huh. I haven't been paying attention to the TAS news at all since I recorded my run, other than hearing that someone had stair-glitched through the game in about an hour. I didn't realize there was a way to circumvent big sections of the game before Threed.

Cool.

Darkwing Duck

2010-03-15 06:40:01 pm

Highly Evolved

Because of how much you'd go OOB, would this be a different category than the one already up?

ZenicReverie

2010-03-15 07:00:14 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Because of how much you'd go OOB, would this be a different category than the one already up?

Quite possibly. That's up to Mike to finally decide. Feel free to weigh in on it though.

Darkwing Duck

2010-03-15 07:09:47 pm

Highly Evolved

For me it depends how much of the game is skipped. I'll never be found of OoB stuff. It's like circumventing the game, and not playing it.

On the other hand, if you have to go back to Twoson anyway to pick up Paula anyway, and it would be faster to go to Threed first, it's more like sequence breaking, which I like, I'd vote that it's the same category. My guess, though, is once you switch to Jeff and he plows into the holding cell, that Paula magically appears.

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2010-03-15 07:44:31 pm

2010-03-15 07:24:40 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Once you skip to Threed, you just do everything there normally, and you get Paula in your party when you're thrown in the grave. She isn't physically in your party to attack until after you get back from Winters with Jeff (meaning, she still calls to Jeff even though she's not technically "apart" of the game yet).

I think skipping an entire town would be worthy of a different category regardless of whether the speedrunner can pull off the OoB glitch (which is my next task to record on emulator); because it's still like skipping an entire level in a platformer, that is normally essential to completing the game. But yea, still up to Mike once he gets back.

Mickey_Mage

2010-03-16 07:32:49 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Because me recording while I'm under the graveyard lags like a bitch, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to get a good recording of the OoB glitch or not (I know PSIPaula has a video of this glitch already, but she is already out of bounds at the start of the level). I don't know what's more precise of a trick, this, or the wall glitches... At least skip sandwiches cure most of the pain in getting stuck in a wall. If I knew the exact timing of the "Alert" screen that comes up when your character is low health, I could do it more consistently...

I also figured out that if you do it too late, and you end up at the bottom of the first step you stand on, then you activate the glitch, but you can only walk forwards diagonally (which means you probably can't get out of it, since I can't think of any doors you can go out of on that path..). You can only have free movement on the map when you pull it off EXACTLY, which has been a pain, even savestating like 4 blinks before the critical screen.

I am now going to bring up what I should have earlier. What kind of leveling strategy are we going to have for a speedrunner that does go out of bounds? Because if the Twoson to Threed skip is the only thing done, then you would have to go back and kill Mondo Mole later by teleporting to Twoson anyway (longass walk through PRV), but I think that's all you have to do later...

Because me recording while I'm under the graveyard lags like a bitch, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to get a good recording of the OoB glitch or not (I know PSIPaula has a video of this glitch already, but she is already out of bounds at the start of the level). I don't know what's more precise of a trick, this, or the wall glitches... At least skip sandwiches cure most of the pain in getting stuck in a wall. If I knew the exact timing of the "Alert" screen that comes up when your character is low health, I could do it more consistently...

I also figured out that if you do it too late, and you end up at the bottom of the first step you stand on, then you activate the glitch, but you can only walk forwards diagonally (which means you probably can't get out of it, since I can't think of any doors you can go out of on that path..). You can only have free movement on the map when you pull it off EXACTLY, which has been a pain, even savestating like 4 blinks before the critical screen.

I am now going to bring up what I should have earlier. What kind of leveling strategy are we going to have for a speedrunner that does go out of bounds? Because if the Twoson to Threed skip is the only thing done, then you would have to go back and kill Mondo Mole later by teleporting to Twoson anyway (longass walk through PRV), but I think that's all you have to do later...

Mickey_Mage

2010-03-18 05:07:50 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Sorry for the triple post, but I did pull off Threed early on console a couple of days ago. I played around with the game after skipping, on the emulator, and I have no clue right now what kind of route there will be to bypass a lot of this stuff, in a human speedrun. So, unfortunately, a speedrun would have to do the walk through stairs glitch in a run possibly several times, so the runner wouldn't have to do a lot of the events (or to skip to every area and/or Sanctuary Boss). Leveling after that to survive most of the rest of the game would be a bitch, too, even once you get Poo at summers. Although, at least if you have Ness at level 14 when you go to summers, you can paralyze the mummies to get a lot of experience out of them for the group.

I have a question, too. What activates the option to teleport to a certain area? Even though I pull off the walk through stairs glitch in Threed and get Poo, once I have him I can't teleport to Threed, only Onett, Twoson, Summers and Winters. the problem with that is, I have to either do the wall glitches again to Threed, or beat Master Belch to make it sunny again to ride to and from Threed...

Another weird thing that occurred is, even if you do the events in Summers up to talking to Mr. Spoon, when you finally get to Fourside he won't even mention Venus since she's not technically at the theater, yet. That means you still have to do all the events leading up to the Runaway Five being released again... Whether Mr. Spoon will mention her after that, and want you to get an autograph, I have yet to determine though. I guess OoBing to the sewer is the only way to bypass that.

I won't keep making new posts of other weird things I've found, but I thought at least I'd mention that I did pull off going to Threed early on console, at any rate.

Sorry for the triple post, but I did pull off Threed early on console a couple of days ago. I played around with the game after skipping, on the emulator, and I have no clue right now what kind of route there will be to bypass a lot of this stuff, in a human speedrun. So, unfortunately, a speedrun would have to do the walk through stairs glitch in a run possibly several times, so the runner wouldn't have to do a lot of the events (or to skip to every area and/or Sanctuary Boss). Leveling after that to survive most of the rest of the game would be a bitch, too, even once you get Poo at summers. Although, at least if you have Ness at level 14 when you go to summers, you can paralyze the mummies to get a lot of experience out of them for the group.

I have a question, too. What activates the option to teleport to a certain area? Even though I pull off the walk through stairs glitch in Threed and get Poo, once I have him I can't teleport to Threed, only Onett, Twoson, Summers and Winters. the problem with that is, I have to either do the wall glitches again to Threed, or beat Master Belch to make it sunny again to ride to and from Threed...

Another weird thing that occurred is, even if you do the events in Summers up to talking to Mr. Spoon, when you finally get to Fourside he won't even mention Venus since she's not technically at the theater, yet. That means you still have to do all the events leading up to the Runaway Five being released again... Whether Mr. Spoon will mention her after that, and want you to get an autograph, I have yet to determine though. I guess OoBing to the sewer is the only way to bypass that.

I won't keep making new posts of other weird things I've found, but I thought at least I'd mention that I did pull off going to Threed early on console, at any rate.

Floogal

2010-03-21 03:07:10 am

So, you're going to try a console version of this TAS run? Best of luck to you!

Regarding the Oob glitch, sunstroke/colds inflict 2 damage every 4 seconds out of battle. The message appears when your HP first drops below a certain %, but I don't know what this % is off-hand. Do some quick calculations mid-run (HP gain is somewhat randomized), then you can count the red-flashes to know exactly when you need to try the stairs.

Quote from Mickey_Mage:

I have a question, too. What activates the option to teleport to a certain area? Even though I pull off the walk through stairs glitch in Threed and get Poo, once I have him I can't teleport to Threed, only Onett, Twoson, Summers and Winters. the problem with that is, I have to either do the wall glitches again to Threed, or beat Master Belch to make it sunny again to ride to and from Threed...

Well, I can confirm that entering Saturn Valley from the Grapefruit Falls cave is what gets it on your list. Maybe you just need to enter a Threed tunnel & then immediately double-back to town...? Unfortunately, my guess is that Threed is added to your list at the end of the "ride the bus to Threed" cutscene.

It shouldn't matter anyways, though. If you're using the Oob glitch, then you'll be skipping all the sanctuaries and going right to the Magicant part of the storyline right after Jeff joins Ness (and Paula magically appears) ...after detouring to Lumine Hall (drop down the hole to Lost Underworld -- sets some flags that must be present to prevent the final fight from stalling).

Use this (small -> 359 KB) or this (large -> 10.2 MB) map to plan your movements through the black abyss. The Threed cave you start in is near the bottom-middle (a little up & right of the Desert-Fourside bridge). You must use the double-Oob route in the TAS, or save at the Threed hotel first, to avoid freezing when death-warping back to Threed.

Anyways, differences between the TAS and your run:
- Consider not skipping Happy Happy Village to get the Franklin Badge. Or, you could pick it up from Paula, then death-warp back to Twoson.
- You'll probably want to hang around in the Lost Underworld for a bit to pick up some goodies (Sea Pendant especially, Cloak of Kings, Horn of Life, Brain Food Lunch...). Perhaps venture into the Fire Springs for the Cherub's Band & a Bag of Dragonite...?
- You'll need to powerlevel a bit in Magicant (Paralysis works 99% on Loaded Die, then freeze them to death). Consider buying 3 Earth Pendants (save one for Poo). Paula with PSI Shield alpha can easily stall out Ness's Nightmare's PP supply. Ness must be alive at the end of the battle, or he'll disappear from the party, and you can't get back home after beating the game (zombies will still be blocking access).

Hmmm... If you're saving in Threed before going to the lumine hall directly, possibly appear earlier in the dungeon, grab the Rabbit's Foot, and beat Electro Specter (easy for a single person with the Franklin Badge).

Ness will be powerful enough to bludgen his way through the Cave of the Past on his own. For the final fight:
- Ness uses paralysis on Pokey (50% chance), then just bashes & heals. If Paula is level 27, revive everyone for the fight beforehand, as PSI Shield sigma + paralysis on Pokey = invincible party.
- rounds 2 & 3 are instant-win if Paula has both Sea Pendant & Franklin Badge (yes, even if she's low level). If missing Franklin Badge, Ness needs to keep her alive -- use Earth Pendant, or possibly buy a Night Pendant from Saturn Valley for full flash but no freeze protection.

So, you're going to try a console version of [url=http://tasvideos.org/1297M.html]this[/url] TAS run?  Best of luck to you!

Regarding the Oob glitch, sunstroke/colds inflict 2 damage every 4 seconds out of battle.  The message appears when your HP first drops below a certain %, but I don't know what this % is off-hand.  Do some quick calculations mid-run (HP gain is somewhat randomized), then you can count the red-flashes to know exactly when you need to try the stairs.

[quote="Mickey_Mage"]I have a question, too. What activates the option to teleport to a certain area? Even though I pull off the walk through stairs glitch in Threed and get Poo, once I have him I can't teleport to Threed, only Onett, Twoson, Summers and Winters. the problem with that is, I have to either do the wall glitches again to Threed, or beat Master Belch to make it sunny again to ride to and from Threed...[/quote]Well, I can confirm that entering Saturn Valley from the Grapefruit Falls cave is what gets it on your list.  Maybe you just need to enter a Threed tunnel & then immediately double-back to town...?  Unfortunately, my guess is that Threed is added to your list at the end of the "ride the bus to Threed" cutscene.

It shouldn't matter anyways, though.  If you're using the Oob glitch, then you'll be skipping all the sanctuaries and going right to the Magicant part of the storyline right after Jeff joins Ness (and Paula magically appears)  ...after detouring to Lumine Hall (drop down the hole to Lost Underworld -- sets some flags that must be present to prevent the final fight from stalling).

Use [url=http://starmen.net/mother2/maps/fullmap_small.png]this (small -> 359 KB)[/url] or [url=http://starmen.net/mother2/maps/fullmap.png]this (large -> 10.2 MB)[/url] map to plan your movements through the black abyss.  The Threed cave you start in is near the bottom-middle (a little up & right of the Desert-Fourside bridge).  You must use the double-Oob route in the TAS, or save at the Threed hotel first, to avoid freezing when death-warping back to Threed.

Anyways, differences between the TAS and your run:
- Consider not skipping Happy Happy Village to get the Franklin Badge.  Or, you could pick it up from Paula, then death-warp back to Twoson.
- You'll probably want to hang around in the Lost Underworld for a bit to pick up some goodies (Sea Pendant especially, Cloak of Kings, Horn of Life, Brain Food Lunch...).  Perhaps venture into the Fire Springs for the Cherub's Band & a Bag of Dragonite...?
- You'll need to powerlevel a bit in Magicant (Paralysis works 99% on Loaded Die, then freeze them to death).  Consider buying 3 Earth Pendants (save one for Poo).  Paula with PSI Shield alpha can easily stall out Ness's Nightmare's PP supply.  Ness must be alive at the end of the battle, or he'll disappear from the party, and you can't get back home after beating the game (zombies will still be blocking access).

Hmmm...  If you're saving in Threed before going to the lumine hall directly, possibly appear earlier in the dungeon, grab the Rabbit's Foot, and beat Electro Specter (easy for a single person with the Franklin Badge).

Ness will be powerful enough to bludgen his way through the Cave of the Past on his own.  For the final fight:
- Ness uses paralysis on Pokey (50% chance), then just bashes & heals.  If Paula is level 27, revive everyone for the fight beforehand, as PSI Shield sigma + paralysis on Pokey = invincible party.
- rounds 2 & 3 are instant-win if Paula has both Sea Pendant & Franklin Badge (yes, even if she's low level).  If missing Franklin Badge, Ness needs to keep her alive -- use Earth Pendant, or possibly buy a Night Pendant from Saturn Valley for full flash but no freeze protection.

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2010-03-21 01:11:07 pm

2010-03-21 11:32:31 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

No, there's no way I'm doing a run of this magnitude. The OoB glitch is hard enough to pull off as it is (have yet to do it on console). If I CAN somehow ever get the glitch down, I might think about a run, but we'll see since I also really suck at menus in RPGs. Sad

If someone else wants to attempt any of this before that, feel free. I'm still busy with finding a job and all that anyway.

Also, about the health thing for the critical screen to appear. I think I calculated it once to be more or less around 20% of your total, but I'll double check on that later today.

Edit: Thanks for the route though, floogal. That actually looks like it might work even for a human speedrun. Maybe some tweaking here or there, but yea, looks good. The problem is, will someone be level 14 going into Magicant? I didn't even know you could paralyze the dice. That's awesome! I'll definitely test this route out on emulator, since I have a save state out of bounds (I kind of leveled more than a speedrun, but not a whole lot over).

Picking up the Franklin Badge and death-warping might be a pretty good idea, even though I'm sure it wouldn't take too long to kill Carpainter with three people (and I figured out that no matter who is wearing the badge, the lightning attack from Carpainter before the fight bounces off anyway).

So, it's a 50/50 shot at paralyzing Pokey? That could be painful if it takes too long to work on him. ~~It's a pity we can't pick up any multi-bottle rockets, but I guess Jeff couldn't hit Pokey anyway without the rabbit's foot as is.~~ I guess we could get the rabbit's foot, but where are we going to obtain MBRs? You can't go back through the swamp without the object you get in the pyramid anyway.

Right now, on console, I'm just basically going through the game in one of my Threed skip files. I'm still playing the game normally, though, minus physically getting Paula. I'm actually going to see what happens if you go get Paula AFTER losing her to the Dept. Spook, which is where I am now, lol.

If there's anything I forgot to mention about the route, or anything else, I'll just post another comment later.

Edit2: Would you teleport back to Deep Darkness to get MBRs? You wouldn't even have that teleport if you only appeared in Lumine Hall?

No, there's no way I'm doing a run of this magnitude. The OoB glitch is hard enough to pull off as it is (have yet to do it on console). If I CAN somehow ever get the glitch down, I might think about a run, but we'll see since I also really suck at menus in RPGs. :(

If someone else wants to attempt any of this before that, feel free. I'm still busy with finding a job and all that anyway.

Also, about the health thing for the critical screen to appear. I think I calculated it once to be more or less around 20% of your total, but I'll double check on that later today.

Edit: Thanks for the route though, floogal. That actually looks like it might work even for a human speedrun. Maybe some tweaking here or there, but yea, looks good. The problem is, will someone be level 14 going into Magicant? I didn't even know you could paralyze the dice. That's awesome! I'll definitely test this route out on emulator, since I have a save state out of bounds (I kind of leveled more than a speedrun, but not a whole lot over).

Picking up the Franklin Badge and death-warping might be a pretty good idea, even though I'm sure it wouldn't take too long to kill Carpainter with three people (and I figured out that no matter who is wearing the badge, the lightning attack from Carpainter before the fight bounces off anyway).

So, it's a 50/50 shot at paralyzing Pokey? That could be painful if it takes too long to work on him.[s] It's a pity we can't pick up any multi-bottle rockets, but I guess Jeff couldn't hit Pokey anyway without the rabbit's foot as is.[/s] I guess we could get the rabbit's foot, but where are we going to obtain MBRs? You can't go back through the swamp without the object you get in the pyramid anyway.

Right now, on console, I'm just basically going through the game in one of my Threed skip files. I'm still playing the game normally, though, minus physically getting Paula. I'm actually going to see what happens if you go get Paula AFTER losing her to the Dept. Spook, which is where I am now, lol.

If there's anything I forgot to mention about the route, or anything else, I'll just post another comment later.

Edit2: Would you teleport back to Deep Darkness to get MBRs? You wouldn't even have that teleport if you only appeared in Lumine Hall?

Floogal

2010-03-22 03:09:09 am

Quote from Mickey_Mage:

Picking up the Franklin Badge and death-warping might be a pretty good idea, even though I'm sure it wouldn't take too long to kill Carpainter with three people (and I figured out that no matter who is wearing the badge, the lightning attack from Carpainter before the fight bounces off anyway).

Actually, I was thinking about going to Happy Happy Village normally, through Peaceful Rest Valley, as you would in an ordinary playthrough (Ness solo). Just, instead of saving in the village when you arrive, you beeline for Paula, get the badge, and death-warp back to where you last saved in Twoson. In hindsight, this would be a LOOONG detour for a single item (considering the shenanegans with Apple Kid to get the Pencil Eraser), and probably not worth it.

Sadly, if the route is to deviate anywhere from the TAS, it will involve extra Oobs to detour for quick pickups. Just one Oob will be super-annoying to pull off efficiently, and we must do two (or forget the entire concept of this run). Adding extra will just make it unbearable.

So that means power-grinding in Magicant. Jeff is kind of useless, so it's pointless to level him up -- let Ness and/or Paula gain experience faster. The party is going to be so underlevelled that in order to survive Giygas's rockin assault, you'll need the Rabbit's Foot on Paula so that she can protect the party quickly, or just race the rolling HP meter with Ness solo. In the time it would take to level Jeff up enough for his speed to allow decent bottle rocket damage on Pokey (even with the Rabbit's Foot), Ness could have levelled up enough to sweep the rest of the game -- his nightmare is simple with stalling out its PP meter, and the Magicant boost makes even a weak Ness overpowered.

I'm intrigued with fighting Electro Specter. Normally he's a pushover, but in this instance you're not going to have the 100+ offense needed to overcome his defense, and he does have a lot of HP. With the Franklin Badge, Ness is guarranteed to win (you'll occasionally take damage from its HP sucker, but it will several hits to completely drain you, which you can easily heal), and the experience will bump him up to level 39 minimum. But needing an average of 26 reflected bolts (with 75% of his bolts missing you) means it will take a while -- in the time it takes to detour for the Franklin Badge & beat Electro Specter, you could easily beat the 25 necessary Loaded Die to get the same experience.

[quote="Mickey_Mage"]Picking up the Franklin Badge and death-warping might be a pretty good idea, even though I'm sure it wouldn't take too long to kill Carpainter with three people (and I figured out that no matter who is wearing the badge, the lightning attack from Carpainter before the fight bounces off anyway).[/quote]Actually, I was thinking about going to Happy Happy Village normally, through Peaceful Rest Valley, as you would in an ordinary playthrough (Ness solo).  Just, instead of saving in the village when you arrive, you beeline for Paula, get the badge, and death-warp back to where you last saved in Twoson.  In hindsight, this would be a [i]LOOONG[/i] detour for a single item (considering the shenanegans with Apple Kid to get the Pencil Eraser), and probably not worth it.

Sadly, if the route is to deviate anywhere from the TAS, it will involve extra Oobs to detour for quick pickups.  Just one Oob will be super-annoying to pull off efficiently, and we must do two (or forget the entire concept of this run).  Adding extra will just make it unbearable.

So that means power-grinding in Magicant.  Jeff is kind of useless, so it's pointless to level him up -- let Ness and/or Paula gain experience faster.  The party is going to be so underlevelled that in order to survive Giygas's rockin assault, you'll need the Rabbit's Foot on Paula so that she can protect the party quickly, or just race the rolling HP meter with Ness solo.  In the time it would take to level Jeff up enough for his speed to allow decent bottle rocket damage on Pokey (even with the Rabbit's Foot), Ness could have levelled up enough to sweep the rest of the game -- his nightmare is simple with stalling out its PP meter, and the Magicant boost makes even a weak Ness overpowered.

I'm intrigued with fighting Electro Specter.  Normally he's a pushover, but in this instance you're not going to have the 100+ offense needed to overcome his defense, and he does have a lot of HP.  With the Franklin Badge, Ness is guarranteed to win (you'll occasionally take damage from its HP sucker, but it will several hits to completely drain you, which you can easily heal), and the experience will bump him up to level 39 minimum.  But needing an average of 26 reflected bolts (with 75% of his bolts missing you) means it will take a while -- in the time it takes to detour for the Franklin Badge & beat Electro Specter, you could easily beat the 25 necessary Loaded Die to get the same experience.

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2010-03-23 10:21:56 am

2010-03-22 11:24:52 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Quote from Floogal:

Quote from Mickey_Mage:

Picking up the Franklin Badge and death-warping might be a pretty good idea, even though I'm sure it wouldn't take too long to kill Carpainter with three people (and I figured out that no matter who is wearing the badge, the lightning attack from Carpainter before the fight bounces off anyway).

Actually, I was thinking about going to Happy Happy Village normally, through Peaceful Rest Valley, as you would in an ordinary playthrough (Ness solo). Just, instead of saving in the village when you arrive, you beeline for Paula, get the badge, and death-warp back to where you last saved in Twoson. In hindsight, this would be a LOOONG detour for a single item (considering the shenanegans with Apple Kid to get the Pencil Eraser), and probably not worth it.

True. Also, a skip sandwich would have to be used to get to Paula's captive house early from Peaceful Rest Valley as well.

Quote:

Sadly, if the route is to deviate anywhere from the TAS, it will involve extra Oobs to detour for quick pickups. Just one Oob will be super-annoying to pull off efficiently, and we must do two (or forget the entire concept of this run). Adding extra will just make it unbearable.

I was afraid of this. I noticed that might be a problem, since every time I tried to do something differently, I remembered that there's no way of doing the next event without doing a shitload more of others to get to that one, which defeats the entire point of OoB in the first place.

Quote:

So that means power-grinding in Magicant. Jeff is kind of useless, so it's pointless to level him up -- let Ness and/or Paula gain experience faster. The party is going to be so underlevelled that in order to survive Giygas's rockin assault, you'll need the Rabbit's Foot on Paula so that she can protect the party quickly, or just race the rolling HP meter with Ness solo. In the time it would take to level Jeff up enough for his speed to allow decent bottle rocket damage on Pokey (even with the Rabbit's Foot), Ness could have levelled up enough to sweep the rest of the game -- his nightmare is simple with stalling out its PP meter, and the Magicant boost makes even a weak Ness overpowered.

So, basically, if Jeff dies in Magicant, who cares (and heal at the Inn instead of with your mom, since she brings party members back to life in the process)? I think putting the Rabbit's Foot on Ness in Magicant will be better, since there's no way he'd get a chance to go first to paralyze the Loaded Die otherwise. I don't think Ness would ever get a first turn while we were leveling him in Magicant, and I don't know how long it would be before Paula can one-shot the Die with PSI Freeze beta (or gamma, since I'm sure we'll level her up close to it at any rate), wasting her first turn, and letting the Die call for help.

Also, a side note about Magicant that I found yesterday that's hilarious. Since you already have 3 party members, if you get a Flying Man, he becomes your 4th technically. If the Flying Man dies, he stays at the back of your party permanently, and when you recruit another Flying Man, that one becomes a permanent 5th member in the party line, even if he dies. You can actually recruit every single Flying Man at once at some point, too (I did it with the 3rd one, so they each called themselves Flying Man 3 when I recruited them). One more thing, every time a Flying Man is about to attack in battle, if you have killed off several others, it shows one or two messages telling you the previous have collapsed and died. Even if this was already known, I still think it's funny as hell to point out.

Quote:

I'm intrigued with fighting Electro Specter. Normally he's a pushover, but in this instance you're not going to have the 100+ offense needed to overcome his defense, and he does have a lot of HP. With the Franklin Badge, Ness is guarranteed to win (you'll occasionally take damage from its HP sucker, but it will several hits to completely drain you, which you can easily heal), and the experience will bump him up to level 39 minimum. But needing an average of 26 reflected bolts (with 75% of his bolts missing you) means it will take a while -- in the time it takes to detour for the Franklin Badge & beat Electro Specter, you could easily beat the 25 necessary Loaded Die to get the same experience.

That's gonna be the biggest question of this route right now; because getting normal good luck is unbearable in this game, and I would think you'd need better than that even to beat Electro without the Franklin Badge. But you're saying to go to Electro right after you get OoB? That'll be one hell of a fight at that level either way. If you fight the Die first, what would you do after? That would require more OoBs than normal if you needed to go back again to get the Rabbit's foot. Once you're OoB you could easily get in the room with Electro, but you'd have to drop down a hole and come back up again to actually face him.

[quote="Floogal"]
[quote="Mickey_Mage"]Picking up the Franklin Badge and death-warping might be a pretty good idea, even though I'm sure it wouldn't take too long to kill Carpainter with three people (and I figured out that no matter who is wearing the badge, the lightning attack from Carpainter before the fight bounces off anyway).[/quote]Actually, I was thinking about going to Happy Happy Village normally, through Peaceful Rest Valley, as you would in an ordinary playthrough (Ness solo).  Just, instead of saving in the village when you arrive, you beeline for Paula, get the badge, and death-warp back to where you last saved in Twoson.  In hindsight, this would be a [i]LOOONG[/i] detour for a single item (considering the shenanegans with Apple Kid to get the Pencil Eraser), and probably not worth it.[/quote]

True. Also, a skip sandwich would have to be used to get to Paula's captive house early from Peaceful Rest Valley as well.

[quote]Sadly, if the route is to deviate anywhere from the TAS, it will involve extra Oobs to detour for quick pickups.  Just one Oob will be super-annoying to pull off efficiently, and we must do two (or forget the entire concept of this run).  Adding extra will just make it unbearable.[/quote]

I was afraid of this. I noticed that might be a problem, since every time I tried to do something differently, I remembered that there's no way of doing the next event without doing a shitload more of others to get to that one, which defeats the entire point of OoB in the first place.

[quote]So that means power-grinding in Magicant.  Jeff is kind of useless, so it's pointless to level him up -- let Ness and/or Paula gain experience faster.  The party is going to be so underlevelled that in order to survive Giygas's rockin assault, you'll need the Rabbit's Foot on Paula so that she can protect the party quickly, or just race the rolling HP meter with Ness solo.  In the time it would take to level Jeff up enough for his speed to allow decent bottle rocket damage on Pokey (even with the Rabbit's Foot), Ness could have levelled up enough to sweep the rest of the game -- his nightmare is simple with stalling out its PP meter, and the Magicant boost makes even a weak Ness overpowered.[/quote]

So, basically, if Jeff dies in Magicant, who cares (and heal at the Inn instead of with your mom, since she brings party members back to life in the process)? I think putting the Rabbit's Foot on Ness in Magicant will be better, since there's no way he'd get a chance to go first to paralyze the Loaded Die otherwise. I don't think Ness would ever get a first turn while we were leveling him in Magicant, and I don't know how long it would be before Paula can one-shot the Die with PSI Freeze beta (or gamma, since I'm sure we'll level her up close to it at any rate), wasting her first turn, and letting the Die call for help.

Also, a side note about Magicant that I found yesterday that's hilarious. Since you already have 3 party members, if you get a Flying Man, he becomes your 4th technically. If the Flying Man dies, he stays at the back of your party permanently, and when you recruit another Flying Man, that one becomes a permanent 5th member in the party line, even if he dies. You can actually recruit every single Flying Man at once at some point, too (I did it with the 3rd one, so they each called themselves Flying Man 3 when I recruited them). One more thing, every time a Flying Man is about to attack in battle, if you have killed off several others, it shows one or two messages telling you the previous have collapsed and died. Even if this was already known, I still think it's funny as hell to point out.

[quote]I'm intrigued with fighting Electro Specter.  Normally he's a pushover, but in this instance you're not going to have the 100+ offense needed to overcome his defense, and he does have a lot of HP.  With the Franklin Badge, Ness is guarranteed to win (you'll occasionally take damage from its HP sucker, but it will several hits to completely drain you, which you can easily heal), and the experience will bump him up to level 39 minimum.  But needing an average of 26 reflected bolts (with 75% of his bolts missing you) means it will take a while -- in the time it takes to detour for the Franklin Badge & beat Electro Specter, you could easily beat the 25 necessary Loaded Die to get the same experience.[/quote]

That's gonna be the biggest question of this route right now; because getting normal good luck is unbearable in this game, and I would think you'd need better than that even to beat Electro without the Franklin Badge. But you're saying to go to Electro right after you get OoB? That'll be one hell of a fight at that level either way. If you fight the Die first, what would you do after? That would require more OoBs than normal if you needed to go back again to get the Rabbit's foot. Once you're OoB you could easily get in the room with Electro, but you'd have to drop down a hole and come back up again to actually face him.

Floogal

2010-03-23 02:24:09 am

Quote from Mickey_Mage:

Also, a side note about Magicant that I found yesterday that's hilarious. Since you already have 3 party members, if you get a Flying Man, he becomes your 4th technically. If the Flying Man dies, he stays at the back of your party permanently, and when you recruit another Flying Man, that one becomes a permanent 5th member in the party line, even if he dies. You can actually recruit every single Flying Man at once at some point, too (I did it with the 3rd one, so they each called themselves Flying Man 3 when I recruited them). One more thing, every time a Flying Man is about to attack in battle, if you have killed off several others, it shows one or two messages telling you the previous have collapsed and died. Even if this was already known, I still think it's funny as hell to point out still.

Yeah, I discovered that before, too. It seems that only a Flying Man in party position #2 is properly removed when it runs out of HP or you complete Magicant.

Note that second condition -- these undying Flying Men will leave Magicant with you. It's especially funny if you then teleport to the Lost Underworld, as they don't have a tiny-equivalent sprite (neither do Tiny Li'l Ghosts).

[quote="Mickey_Mage"]Also, a side note about Magicant that I found yesterday that's hilarious. Since you already have 3 party members, if you get a Flying Man, he becomes your 4th technically. If the Flying Man dies, he stays at the back of your party permanently, and when you recruit another Flying Man, that one becomes a permanent 5th member in the party line, even if he dies. You can actually recruit every single Flying Man at once at some point, too (I did it with the 3rd one, so they each called themselves Flying Man 3 when I recruited them). One more thing, every time a Flying Man is about to attack in battle, if you have killed off several others, it shows one or two messages telling you the previous have collapsed and died. Even if this was already known, I still think it's funny as hell to point out still.[/quote]Yeah, I discovered that before, too.  It seems that only a Flying Man in party position #2 is properly removed when it runs out of HP or you complete Magicant.

Note that second condition -- these undying Flying Men will leave Magicant with you.  It's especially funny if you then teleport to the Lost Underworld, as they don't have a tiny-equivalent sprite (neither do Tiny Li'l Ghosts).