EarthBound

2007-08-21 07:33:03 pm

I'll look more closely at this later, but I'll make a few comments now.

You should probably use bags of Dragonite against Ness's Nightmare. There's one easily obtainable in the Tenda village, and another slightly out of the way in Magicant. After running out of Dragonite, simply bash or Rockin (depending on whether he's used Shield yet). There's no reason to wait out his PP.

Against Giygas, Paula at least needs Flash protection (such as the Night Pendant), and she will be practically invincible against forms 2 and 3 with the Sea Pendant and Franklin Badge. This would mean one less person to heal against form 2, and you wouldn't really need to heal anyone against form 3.

Erik_McLennan

2007-08-21 08:22:32 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Bags of Dragonite only do about 500 or so to Ness' Nightmare, so even if I didn't use one on Shroom, and I collected the one in Magicant, they wouldn't be enough to kill him; by the time 3 turns have gone by, he's either used Rockin Omega, or healed himself for 300+ health, meaning you'd have to be very lucky to kill him while he's still got PP (rockin Beta only does a little over 100 damage, same with his regular attack, and rockin Gamma is too expensive)

I forgot to mention that I plan on using the second bag of dragonite against Giygas, and equipping the Night pendant to Paula, though given the difficulty of the run, you're almost certainly right about grabbing the Sea Pendant for her and keep the Night Pendant on Ness.

Maybe for Ness' Nightmare, instead of defending when I don't need to heal I could just use Flash beta, if I've got the extra PP, and hope to get lucky...

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2007-08-21 09:14:48 pm

2007-08-21 09:09:15 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

I noticed that you are not fighting Trillionage Sprout after Belch. When will you come back, as that is a lot of experience lost (Criminal Caterpillar will not compensate for all of that). I see when you fight him, but still don't understand. Oh well.

Is waiting for a Criminal Caterpillar to appear in the desert really worth it in a SS run? Couldn't you just level up more beforehand? I mean, we had the idea of getting a couple of Criminal Caterpillars (I think about 2 or 3) for a segmented run because we would save at the store before going up there, but you will be kind of far into the game at this point. How long, on average, does it take you to get a Criminal Caterpillar to appear? What level will you be at this point in the game, especially since you skipped out on Trillionage?

In a SS run, I would think you'd have to be a higher level than segmented to survive in a game this random with fights and stuff, since you won't be able to manipulate luck.

Wouldn't it be better to save the Big Bottle Rocket for like the Department Store Spook or something? I mean, there are 5 moles, and at this point you will have two BBR's before obtaining the one in the Mole Mine. Couldn't you just save those, now, so you wouldn't have to buy a lot of BBR's later on, or are the Moles that hard to kill at whatever level you'll be by then? Besides, aren't Big Bottle Rockets the same as physical attacks? Wouldn't it just bounce back at you and kill Jeff anyway?
You should avoid as many enemies as possible, so I don't think you'll need to collect a normal bomb while in the mine since Freeze kills pretty much anything down there in one hit.

Two Supers and four Big Bottle Rockets might be a better purchase than two supers and eight BBR's. How much money will you even have at this point? We can't tell how much you are even fighting to level up by your route.

What's with buying three Skip Sandwiches after the monkey cave? You will have teleport at that point, couldn't you just teleport slam. I mean, Skip Sandwiches don't even last that long. I haven't read that far yet, so I'll see where you use them all (one is good for the Monotoli Building to skip the robots, but the other two aren't of very much use). Having the DX would probably be better than having that many Skip sandwiches. I saw you got the Silver Bracelet, but did you ever plan on grabbing that Skip Sandwich DX? It comes in pretty handy.

As Nitrodon already said, you can teleport on the helipad after you talk to Monotoli the second time, but it is of more use on a TAS than speedrun done by a human, SS or not since the movements have to be so precise and quick, it's insane (I've tried it several times).

Is it really worth using a Bag of Dragonite on Shroom? He's not that hard to kill with a few good hits from Big Bottle Rockets and Ness and Paula wailing on him with their most powerful attacks as well.

It's probably better to just keep that Bag of Dragonite (or never get it since it is kind of out of the way in the Monkey cave) and get the other two dragonite bags that Nitrodon also mentioned in his post; the one in Magicant, and the one you talk to the elder in Tenda Village after you give him the Book of Overcoming Shyness. If Ness's Nightmare never heals, I assure you, you will kill him with two or three bags of Dragonite (also, if he doesn't activate his shield, which he doesn't do as often as attack you with your own PSI attacks).

Are you sure using the Skip Sandwich to avoid the other enemies in the Pyramid is more efficient than using it in the long stretch at the end? I mean, you don't need that much experience, do you?

Do you really need this many Cups of Lifenoodles? I know it's a SS, but you can avoid dieing in a lot of battles. If you think it's good for you because it's on the way, then go for it.

Is it really worth fighting the Trillionage Sprout this late in the game, instead of when is necessary? I'm guessing you might be doing this because of the randomness of that first cave? I don't know what everyone else will say, so it's fine with me, since SS is a pain, but the experience lost earlier from not fighting him is crazy. You would have to fight a lot to make that up probably.

Why use both MBR's on Carbon Dog? Diamond Dog is much harder to kill, especially with his shields he can activate. Will you have Freeze Gamma by that point?

As Nitrodon also mentioned, don't wait for the Nightmare to use all of his PP. He has way too much to wait for that long, even in a SS. Hopefully he won't heal, but the best thing to do, as Nitrodon already said, too, use bags of Dragonite on him (I recommend three for a SS run).

Also, I strongly recomment you use lifeup alpha for this fight (unless you really really have to use beta), as you will always enough to survive the next onslaught, and you don't need to be full health to beat this guy at all, or have that much. It also saves a lot of PP that you might need if things get bad and the Bags of Dragonite don't kill him immediately. I used just alpha when fighting him, and did fine (he used my Special Omega and Beta on me several times, and I was able to survive easily). I was on a much higher level, but you still should survive. Again, you want to kill him before he puts up that power shield, as you need PP for healing more than attacking (sometimes, your attacks don't take much, or even hit him for that matter).

Why all the Horns of life? You shouldn't die that much; and if you do both Ness, and I guess Poo as well, will have Healing Gamma.

Most of the time, you can kill the second form of Giygas fairly quickly so just do what Nitrodon said and use the Sea Pendant and Franklin Badge on Paula before the fight. If that doesn't help, then brainshock will help enough to get through that part quickly. Since you have to brainshock Giygas again in the third fight, that's why I asked if you can kill him quickly at that level.

The rest of the route looks good, but could maybe use a little "tuneup" so to speak, maybe. This is what I have to say, but the others that talk in here as much as me are more knowledgeable of the game. I'm just pointing out stuff that might make things go faster or just help you with money management, which you'll need badly; especially for a SS run. Again, good luck with this run if you get a chance to do it.

I noticed that you are not fighting Trillionage Sprout after Belch. When will you come back, as that is a lot of experience lost (Criminal Caterpillar will not compensate for all of that). I see when you fight him, but still don't understand. Oh well.

Is waiting for a Criminal Caterpillar to appear in the desert really worth it in a SS run? Couldn't you just level up more beforehand? I mean, we had the idea of getting a couple of Criminal Caterpillars (I think about 2 or 3) for a segmented run because we would save at the store before going up there, but you will be kind of far into the game at this point. How long, on average, does it take you to get a Criminal Caterpillar to appear? What level will you be at this point in the game, especially since you skipped out on Trillionage?

In a SS run, I would think you'd have to be a higher level than segmented to survive in a game this random with fights and stuff, since you won't be able to manipulate luck.

Wouldn't it be better to save the Big Bottle Rocket for like the Department Store Spook or something? I mean, there are 5 moles, and at this point you will have two BBR's before obtaining the one in the Mole Mine. Couldn't you just save those, now, so you wouldn't have to buy a lot of BBR's later on, or are the Moles that hard to kill at whatever level you'll be by then? Besides, aren't Big Bottle Rockets the same as physical attacks? Wouldn't it just bounce back at you and kill Jeff anyway?
You should avoid as many enemies as possible, so I don't think you'll need to collect a normal bomb while in the mine since Freeze kills pretty much anything down there in one hit.

Two Supers and four Big Bottle Rockets might be a better purchase than two supers and eight BBR's. How much money will you even have at this point? We can't tell how much you are even fighting to level up by your route.

What's with buying three Skip Sandwiches after the monkey cave? You will have teleport at that point, couldn't you just teleport slam. I mean, Skip Sandwiches don't even last that long. I haven't read that far yet, so I'll see where you use them all (one is good for the Monotoli Building to skip the robots, but the other two aren't of very much use). Having the DX would probably be better than having that many Skip sandwiches. I saw you got the Silver Bracelet, but did you ever plan on grabbing that Skip Sandwich DX? It comes in pretty handy.

As Nitrodon already said, you can teleport on the helipad after you talk to Monotoli the second time, but it is of more use on a TAS than speedrun done by a human, SS or not since the movements have to be so precise and quick, it's insane (I've tried it several times).

Is it really worth using a Bag of Dragonite on Shroom? He's not that hard to kill with a few good hits from Big Bottle Rockets and Ness and Paula wailing on him with their most powerful attacks as well.

It's probably better to just keep that Bag of Dragonite (or never get it since it is kind of out of the way in the Monkey cave) and get the other two dragonite bags that Nitrodon also mentioned in his post; the one in Magicant, and the one you talk to the elder in Tenda Village after you give him the Book of Overcoming Shyness. If Ness's Nightmare never heals, I assure you, you will kill him with two or three bags of Dragonite (also, if he doesn't activate his shield, which he doesn't do as often as attack you with your own PSI attacks).

Are you sure using the Skip Sandwich to avoid the other enemies in the Pyramid is more efficient than using it in the long stretch at the end? I mean, you don't need that much experience, do you?

Do you really need this many Cups of Lifenoodles? I know it's a SS, but you can avoid dieing in a lot of battles. If you think it's  good for you because it's on the way, then go for it.

Is it really worth fighting the Trillionage Sprout this late in the game, instead of when is necessary? I'm guessing you might be doing this because of the randomness of that first cave? I don't know what everyone else will say, so it's fine with me, since SS is a pain, but the experience lost earlier from not fighting him is crazy. You would have to fight a lot to make that up probably.

Why use both MBR's on Carbon Dog? Diamond Dog is much harder to kill, especially with his shields he can activate. Will you have Freeze Gamma by that point?

As Nitrodon also mentioned, don't wait for the Nightmare to use all of his PP. He has way too much to wait for that long, even in a SS. Hopefully he won't heal, but the best thing to do, as Nitrodon already said, too, use bags of Dragonite on him (I recommend three for a SS run).

Also, I strongly recomment you use lifeup alpha for this fight (unless you really really have to use beta), as you will always enough to survive the next onslaught, and you don't need to be full health to beat this guy at all, or have that much. It also saves a lot of PP that you might need if things get bad and the Bags of Dragonite don't kill him immediately. I used just alpha when fighting him, and did fine (he used my Special Omega and Beta on me several times, and I was able to survive easily). I was on a much higher level, but you still should survive. Again, you want to kill him before he puts up that power shield, as you need PP for healing more than attacking (sometimes, your attacks don't take much, or even hit him for that matter).

Why all the Horns of life? You shouldn't die that much; and if you do both Ness, and I guess Poo as well, will have Healing Gamma.

Most of the time, you can kill the second form of Giygas fairly quickly so just do what Nitrodon said and use the Sea Pendant and Franklin Badge on Paula before the fight. If that doesn't help, then brainshock will help enough to get through that part quickly. Since you have to brainshock Giygas again in the third fight, that's why I asked if you can kill him quickly at that level.

The rest of the route looks good, but could maybe use a little "tuneup" so to speak, maybe. This is what I have to say, but the others that talk in here as much as me are more knowledgeable of the game. I'm just pointing out stuff that might make things go faster or just help you with money management, which you'll need badly; especially for a SS run. Again, good luck with this run if you get a chance to do it.

Mickey_Mage

2007-08-21 09:28:19 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Just 500 with bag of dragonite on Nightmare? I remember taking more than that, and 3 killed him before he even put up a shield (this was on one try through Magicant without restarting, too). All he used on me were Special attacks. I guess he could heal, but luck plays a lot with this fight, as with every other fight in this game.

Bag of Dragonite on Giygas? I don't think that's really worth it, as you will have several people attacking him at once (PP isn't that necessary, and Ness will have alot of it for healing as it is).

Erik_McLennan

2007-08-21 09:34:58 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

He won't have several people attacking him at once if 2 of your guys are dead from Flash, and the others are in low health; I only ran through that battle once at low levels, but it wasn't a walk in the park by any means.

Mickey_Mage

2007-08-21 09:50:46 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Flash won't always kill them, especially not that many all at once. If flash numbs Jeff, meh, who cares about him at that point. It may not be easy at low levels against Giygas, but it's not that hard either, especially if you use brainshock. If someone gets killed and you still use brainshock, who cares? You can still revive that person with Ness (or Poo, if he does survive). Using at least one Starstorm Omega with Poo will be good, but that's it, as you need his PP more than Ness's (remember, Ness still has alot, and you should have some PP recovering items by that point). Also, what did you buy all of those Horns of life for? They don't always bring back people from the dead. I think it's the same as using Healing Gamma?

Nitrodon

2007-08-21 11:01:03 pm

Bags of Dragonite deal an average of 560 damage to Ness's Nightmare and 800 damage to Shrooom!. I must advise against using Dragonite against Giygas, since it only deals 320 damage there. (For comparison, a Super Bomb deals 270 to everyone.)

With the Franklin Badge and Sea Pendant on Paula, forms 2 and 3 are extremely trivial to survive. Giygas has 4 different actions:

1. Do nothing
2. Deal damage (average 9 damage with the Sea Pendant, possible solidification)
3. Thunder (reflected by Franklin Badge)
4. Flash (blocked by Sea Pendant)

Even if Paula is the only one left alive, Giygas should therefore be easy to kill.

Horns of Life are equivalent to Healing Omega, and thus always work.

Mickey_Mage

2007-08-22 12:54:46 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Oh, yeah, nevermind. That was a secret herb I was thinking of, sorry about that. Either way, he doesn't need that many.

Considering Ness is alone when fighting his Nightmare, ~560 per hit with dragonite is pretty dam good, if you ask me. That is a lot from Shroom!, but how hard is Shroom! usually, anyway, even at a low level? He never was for me, and I have tried him at a low level. Big Bottle Rockets worked fine for me. Of course, I wasn't doing a SS run.

Erik_McLennan

2007-08-22 01:31:28 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Shroom isn't hard, the Bag of Dragonite just makes it a bit faster.

560 is NOT a lot at all to Ness' Nightmare; you'd need some pretty crazy luck to have him not cast either Rockin Omega or Lifeup Beta in the 3-4 turns required to kill him with the 3 bags; having said that, if he heals, and you can't kill him til his PP runs out, all you've done is waste 3 bags of dragonite, which aren't really essential anywhere else....perhaps a good risk to take.

With what you're saying about the Sea Pendant and Franklin Badge on Paula in the final match, I can see that the Horns of Life aren't necessary at all, and probably a lot of the Cup of Lifenoodles I grab throughout the game aren't either.

Once I've got a complete run under my belt I'll have a better idea of what's really necessary.

Mickey_Mage

2007-08-22 02:39:08 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Ness's Nightmare will take a long time either way. Luck will come into play no matter the path; whether you wait for him to run out of PP, try to kill him normally (no dragonites), or if you use the 3 dragonites and fight him with Special attacks and Bash attacks. I doubt Nightmare will be able to recover all that you just took from him with the dragonites that quickly, which leaves you room to pound on him with other attacks in the mean time (and you can still deal a lot of damage to him in the process).

At least with using the dragonites, you have a better chance of staying ahead of him so you take some, he heals some, but you take enough to kill him eventually since he might never get ahead of you in healing vs damage dealt.

I don't know for a fact, but I've had more battles where he uses your special against you more than healing himself. I'm sure I'm wrong, as I have never seen the numbers for it, but that's from my own personal experience against him every time.

One time I fought him at a low level, I didn't even have or use dragonites at the time, so it took awhile, but I did eventually kill him, without waiting for him to use all his PP.

No matter how you slice it, though, it's much longer if you wait until he runs out of PP (he tends to use a lot more lower special attacks than higher ones, plus, the higher level attacks' animations take longer, too).

If he hits you, you can just recover quickly with alpha. If he hits you again, and you only have like 150 health or something, you'll still be fine, just recover again (one lifeup Beta here and there isn't bad to get a little higher, but not every single time you get hurt by the guy).

Another problem with waiting out the PP is that it increases the chances of him starring at you with a glarry eye and instantly killing Ness (diamonization). So I guess the best path right now, if you don't like the dragonite method, is just keep hitting him the whole time, and that way the battle will take awhile, but you will still kill him before he runs out of PP.

Well, Nitrodon already said that dragonite on Giygas is a bad idea, so you will have two to use against the Nightmare if you do use the third on Shroom!. I do understand where you are coming from with Shroom! so it's fine you using it on him. It will make it very quick lol, You'll take almost all of his health in one attack Tongue

Ness's Nightmare will take a long time either way. Luck will come into play no matter the path; whether you wait for him to run out of PP, try to kill him normally (no dragonites), or if you use the 3 dragonites and fight him with Special attacks and Bash attacks. I doubt Nightmare will be able to recover all that you just took from him with the dragonites that quickly, which leaves you room to pound on him with other attacks in the mean time (and you can still deal a lot of damage to him in the process).

At least with using the dragonites, you have a better chance of staying ahead of him so you take some, he heals some, but you take enough to kill him eventually since he might never get ahead of you in healing vs damage dealt.

I don't know for a fact, but I've had more battles where he uses your special against you more than healing himself. I'm sure I'm wrong, as I have never seen the numbers for it, but that's from my own personal experience against him every time.

One time I fought him at a low level, I didn't even have or use dragonites at the time, so it took awhile, but I did eventually kill him, without waiting for him to use all his PP.

No matter how you slice it, though, it's much longer if you wait until he runs out of PP (he tends to use a lot more lower special attacks than higher ones, plus, the higher level attacks' animations take longer, too).

If he hits you, you can just recover quickly with alpha. If he hits you again, and you only have like 150 health or something, you'll still be fine, just recover again (one lifeup Beta here and there isn't bad to get a little higher, but not every single time you get hurt by the guy).

Another problem with waiting out the PP is that it increases the chances of him starring at you with a glarry eye and instantly killing Ness (diamonization). So I guess the best path right now, if you don't like the dragonite method, is just keep hitting him the whole time, and that way the battle will take awhile, but you will still kill him before he runs out of PP.

Well, Nitrodon already said that dragonite on Giygas is a bad idea, so you will have two to use against the Nightmare if you do use the third on Shroom!. I do understand where you are coming from with Shroom! so it's fine you using it on him. It will make it very quick lol, You'll take almost all of his health in one attack :P

Erik_McLennan

2007-08-22 02:57:32 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Well, Shroom -is- a pretty easy enemy, and it wouldn't break the bank to buy an extra Big Bottle Rocket specifically for him; the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that you guys are right about using all 3 dragonites on Nightmare. I had no clue that he could diamondize you

I've started a couple of runs so far; only one made it past Frank, and I got killed by a Rowdy mouse and a Black Antoid in Giant Step; I think up until defeating Belch is going to require quite a bit of luck to win quickly, and then the rest of the game will be relatively simple.

Nitrodon

2007-08-22 04:57:55 am

Ness's Nightmare can't diamondize you. His only instant death attack is emitting a glorious light, which is blocked by the Night Pendant. You must be thinking of a different enemy.

Based on NN's AI, he has a 7/16 chance of using Lifeup beta in the first 3 turns. If you're worried about the possibility, you can always buy a Super Bomb, which likely won't break the bank by the time you start buying Multi Bottle Rockets.

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2007-08-22 06:21:54 am

2007-08-22 06:18:47 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Oh yeah, diamonization wouldn't make sense since Ness is alone. Yeah, that's Trillionage and Diamond dog I'm thinking of that can do it. (maybe one other, but not a boss I don't think). Yeah, it's just an instant kill move, my bad guys.

Either way, though, Erik, the longer you wait, the more likely Ness's Nightmare is to using that move on Ness, and it actually working, ending your run right there. It's happened to me on a lot of strung out battles with NN.

Nitrodon

2007-08-22 06:31:07 am

Mickey_Mage: You probably used the Earth Pendant against him. Ness's Nightmare's glorious light attack would then have a 10% chance of hitting Ness, and a 1/4 chance of killing Ness if it hits. With a Night Pendant (or Sea Pendant or Star Pendant), that attack will never hit, and thus the only way you can die is from damage (from Rockin or reflected attacks).

Mickey_Mage

2007-08-22 06:41:48 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Really. Thanks, I really had no idea. I stopped buying the Earth pendant a while ago (worthless pendant imo), so I probably wasn't wearing either one, meaning that NN would have a better chance of hitting me. I don't know who I usually put the Night Pendant on, probably Jeff since I get the one in Moonside. So I'll start putting it on Ness from now on, then.

I just thought it was an attack that had a chance of hitting or not. I had no idea a pendant could block it. That's sweet! Is that the same with the diamonization attacks, too? Does the night pendant protect from those as well or any other one?

Nightmare's attack is "glares at you with an eerie eye"? Is that it? What kind of attack would that count as, anyway? The reason I ask, is because the other enemies that do that same thing diamonize you, that's why I made that assumption.

Nitrodon

2007-08-22 06:53:43 am

Glaring with one's eerie eye can be blocked by the same equipment that blocks paralysis (i.e., Travel charm, Great charm, Crystal charm, Rabbit's foot, or Star pendant). That attack is used by Evil Eyes in Onett (after Magicant) and other enemies, not Ness's Nightmare.

Ness's Nightmare can use the following actions, and none others:
Rockin alpha
Rockin Omega
Lifeup beta
Shield beta
Emit a glorious light (equivalent to Flash gamma)

Floogal

Edit history:

Floogal: 2007-08-22 07:01:40 am

2007-08-22 07:00:09 am

[snipped ... Nitrodon beat me. Darn, I type slow]

Take advantage of the inverse hypnosis/brainshock relationship. If you don't equip the Bracer of Kings, Cherub's Band, Pixie Bracelet, or Goddess Band, then the character will be 100% immune to Brainshock.

Hmm... immunity to Brainshock and Diamondization... Evil Eyes (Onett Invaded) are now hardly a threat.

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2007-08-22 07:23:25 am

2007-08-22 07:23:10 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

I never found Evil Eyes a threat from the start. I actually enjoyed killing those Grin

kbw

2007-10-08 03:05:13 am

Is anyone still attempting to run this? I have completed Earthbound well over 20+ times, and have considered it myself. I would really, REALLY like for someone else to do it first - it is my favorite game and I do not think I could give it the justice of a speed run.

Someone mentioned a Single Segment run, but I'm not sure how possible that would be. I'm sure it's known by now that manipulating luck in EB can be difficult. However, a several-segment run would be very possible in my opinion.

Avoiding the photo op's would be the biggest help on time. As said before, the beginning of the game is the toughest because you must absolutely level up. Once you get Paula, the addition of another character lightens the load quite a bit.

Someone mentioned loading up on skip sandwiches, but with how slow the menu's are in the game I'm beginning to wonder how much time you would save. It's hard to avoid creatures even with skip sandwiches power up enabled, so I can only really see a) using them to walk across town or over the bridge to fourside, which is rare and b) loading up the game and getting amazingly lucky with monster spawns. Not only that, if you avoid most monsters money will be an issue...

Is anyone still attempting to run this? I have completed Earthbound well over 20+ times, and have considered it myself. I would really, REALLY like for someone else to do it first - it is my favorite game and I do not think I could give it the justice of a speed run.

Someone mentioned a Single Segment run, but I'm not sure how possible that would be. I'm sure it's known by now that manipulating luck in EB can be difficult. However, a several-segment run would be very possible in my opinion.

Avoiding the photo op's would be the biggest help on time. As said before, the beginning of the game is the toughest because you must absolutely level up. Once you get Paula, the addition of another character lightens the load quite a bit.

Someone mentioned loading up on skip sandwiches, but with how slow the menu's are in the game I'm beginning to wonder how much time you would save. It's hard to avoid creatures even with skip sandwiches power up enabled, so I can only really see a) using them to walk across town or over the bridge to fourside, which is rare and b) loading up the game and getting amazingly lucky with monster spawns. Not only that, if you avoid most monsters money will be an issue...

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2007-10-08 04:36:24 am

2007-10-08 04:32:28 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Pretty much all of what you just mentioned has already been discussed throughout this thread. Just read through all of our discussion starting from like page 18 or so (that's where the actual discussion starts, on a new route and about improvements seen in a run that evil_ninja did awhile ago).

Skip sandwiches are worth it, mostly for skipping enemies; because by skipping some enemies, it cuts down on the time to fight them (an example is the Sentry robots in the Monotoli Building, we can skip the very first one with a skip sandwich). Skipping enemies does create a money issue, somewhat, but eggs are the way to go to remedy this problem, at least until you get Jeff.

We already know to skip all the camera man scenes to cut down time, but we can only skip the ones the TAS skipped, and even a couple of those are hard to do by a human (the one at the sphinx comes to mind). Just watch the TAS to help, as I don't think evil_ninja skipped any of the cameramen, iirc.

Also, after getting Paula, your load isn't lightened all that much still. She is still fairly weak in the beginning when you first get her. After you get Jeff is Paula a little stronger, and you are at a level where it's much easier to survive (at least that is what I've gotten from it).

Also, even though it was never posted, evil_ninja did do a run of this game, just look in my signature for the link to download the file. Look at that and find any problems that have not been mentioned already, as Nitrodon, Floogal, Ampharos, and I have all discussed any flaws we saw with the run (and there were a lot, even if it was a decent run over all)

Pretty much all of what you just mentioned has already been discussed throughout this thread. Just read through all of our discussion starting from like [b]page 18 [/b]or so (that's where the actual discussion starts, on a new route and about improvements seen in a run that evil_ninja did awhile ago).

Skip sandwiches are worth it, mostly for skipping enemies; because by skipping some enemies, it cuts down on the time to fight them (an example is the Sentry robots in the Monotoli Building, we can skip the very first one with a skip sandwich). Skipping enemies does create a money issue, somewhat, but eggs are the way to go to remedy this problem, at least until you get Jeff.

We already know to skip all the camera man scenes to cut down time, but we can only skip the ones the TAS skipped, and even a couple of those are hard to do by a human (the one at the sphinx comes to mind). Just watch the TAS to help, as I don't think evil_ninja skipped any of the cameramen, iirc.

Also, after getting Paula, your load isn't lightened all that much still. She is still fairly weak in the beginning when you first get her. After you get Jeff is Paula a little stronger, and you are at a level where it's much easier to survive (at least that is what I've gotten from it).

Also, even though it was never posted, evil_ninja did do a run of this game, just look in my signature for the link to download the file. Look at that and find any problems that have not been mentioned already, as Nitrodon, Floogal, Ampharos, and I have all discussed any flaws we saw with the run (and there were a lot, even if it was a decent run over all)

kbw

2007-10-08 07:51:30 am

Quote:

Also, even though it was never posted, evil_ninja did do a run of this game, just look in my signature for the link to download the file. Look at that and find any problems that have not been mentioned already, as Nitrodon, Floogal, Ampharos, and I have all discussed any flaws we saw with the run (and there were a lot, even if it was a decent run over all)

Ahh I am so glad someone actually attempted it! I doubt I can be of any help without beating a dead horse, but I'll start at page 18 and see if I catch anything no one else noted. I really hope someone gets a legit speed run on the SDA soon!

Skrat

2007-11-20 04:21:54 am

Advanced LURKER alert~!

EB is one of my top 5 favorite games of all time, so I was glad to see that this two year-old thread is still alive and kicking! After two days of reading this entire thread, I am sorry to admit I have yet to see either the TAS or ninja's runs (grrr to a lack of hard drive space). While I've played the game a bunch, I've never considered trying a speed run myself (too long a game with too much luck involved). All the more power to whomever finds themselves with enough time to make another serious attempt!!

I only have two bits of information to share, though I'm sure it's nothing new to the likes of those who have been researching the ins and outs. First, I find that leveling up in Giant Step is best done in the last two screens when you can often find a lone Black Antoid for an easy green swirly for the win. Although gaining 100+ exp from four slugs seems quick, you have to go through four battle turns... looong time. I'd think it much quicker gaining a painless 37exp, plus a cookie that can keep you from having to constantly reheal and abusing the butterflies. Unfortunately, I'm not sure of what level you need to be at to green swirl/auto win against an antoid...

Second, fighting the criminal caterpillars in the DDD is a great way to gain exp, no doubt. Finding them is a snap, too, if you check out a dedicated starmen.net page. ...Guess I just wanted to point it out since I was the one who wrote it years ago, haha!! You should check it out if you haven't already. I understand that the original plan is to fight only three of them for the official run; this may help immensely if you can luck abuse at the start of a segment. The only downside is that you gain zero dollars fighting them, so the tradeoff is pretty steep considering moolah will be of utmost importance throughout the run. Criminal Caterpillar page: starmen.net/mother2/guides/dddtrick/ Please ignore all typos; I was fifteen when I wrote it and then was asked if it could be posted straight to the message boards... ^.^

Anyway. Much love to y'all. Can't wait to see if this ever comes to fruition! Good luck!!

Advanced LURKER alert~!

EB is one of my top 5 favorite games of all time, so I was glad to see that this two year-old thread is still alive and kicking!  After two days of reading this entire thread, I am sorry to admit I have yet to see either the TAS or ninja's runs (grrr to a lack of hard drive space).  While I've played the game a bunch, I've never considered trying a speed run myself (too long a game with too much luck involved).  All the more power to whomever finds themselves with enough time to make another serious attempt!!

I only have two bits of information to share, though I'm sure it's nothing new to the likes of those who have been researching the ins and outs.  First, I find that leveling up in Giant Step is best done in the last two screens when you can often find a lone Black Antoid for an easy green swirly for the win.  Although gaining 100+ exp from four slugs seems quick, you have to go through four battle turns...  looong time.  I'd think it much quicker gaining a painless 37exp, plus a cookie that can keep you from having to constantly reheal and abusing the butterflies.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure of what level you need to be at to green swirl/auto win against an antoid...

Second, fighting the criminal caterpillars in the DDD is a great way to gain exp, no doubt.  Finding them is a snap, too, if you check out a dedicated starmen.net page. ...Guess I just wanted to point it out since I was the one who wrote it years ago, haha!! You should check it out if you haven't already. I understand that the original plan is to fight only three of them for the official run; this may help immensely if you can luck abuse at the start of a segment.   The only downside is that you gain zero dollars fighting them, so the tradeoff is pretty steep considering moolah will be of utmost importance throughout the run.  Criminal Caterpillar page: starmen.net/mother2/guides/dddtrick/    Please ignore all typos; I was fifteen when I wrote it and then was asked if it could be posted straight to the message boards...  ^.^

Anyway.  Much love to y'all.  Can't wait to see if this ever comes to fruition!  Good luck!!

jam287

2008-08-10 05:02:27 am

Been a year and no run. Is there a more current topic?

Red_Shifter

2008-08-10 09:34:46 pm

yes, an iron knuckle riding a mechanical horse

This is the only topic I know about on the subject of Earthbound. As far as I know, much of the strategy was discussed and now it needs some testing and a good runner. Not sure why it died off so quickly. If you're interested, at least go back and read Page 32.

Some recent Earthbound discussion has come out of the TAS community. A new walk-through-walls glitch was found about a week ago that can radically change the game's route. However, it's worthless for a SDA speedrun because of the extreme difficulty of pulling it off on a console and how heavily it abuses out-of-bounds areas (you can literally walk from Threed to the location of the final battle).

Mickey_Mage

2008-08-11 04:07:29 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Wow, that's one hell of a glitch for this game. Straight from Threed to the end of the game pretty much? Not sure how even a TAS could pull off beating Giygas at such a low level though...

I have kind of put this run on my list of games to do, but way in the future though, since this is my last year of college, and I want to get settled in and stuff after I graduate before doing anything serious (plus, this game takes an extreme amount of planning to even consider running, as random as it is).

I think starting from like page 16 was when the major discussion started, since that's about the time that evil_ninja did his run that is in my sig, but not on SDA because it was so bad. He was the best person for this game too, and I hope he's going to work on it again, since it'll be a long time before I consider running this beast of a game Undecided

There still needs to be more discussion and planning before this is considered. I don't think we covered every little thing from evil_ninja's run, plus, we need to find the fastest routes for everything still, I think. Testing I can do, once I get back to school in a week, but no more than that for now. Of course, I don't want to do the testing alone, so it'll be pointless unless others join this thread again...

Wow, that's one hell of a glitch for this game. Straight from Threed to the end of the game pretty much? Not sure how even a TAS could pull off beating Giygas at such a low level though...

I have kind of put this run on my list of games to do, but way in the future though, since this is my last year of college, and I want to get settled in and stuff after I graduate before doing anything serious (plus, this game takes an extreme amount of planning to even consider running, as random as it is).

I think starting from like page 16 was when the major discussion started, since that's about the time that evil_ninja did his run that is in my sig, but not on SDA because it was so bad. He was the best person for this game too, and I hope he's going to work on it again, since it'll be a long time before I consider running this beast of a game  :-\

There still needs to be more discussion and planning before this is considered. I don't think we covered every little thing from evil_ninja's run, plus, we need to find the fastest routes for everything still, I think. Testing I can do, once I get back to school in a week, but no more than that for now. Of course, I don't want to do the testing alone, so it'll be pointless unless others join this thread again...