EarthBound

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2007-04-18 05:36:59 pm

2007-04-18 05:36:08 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Thanks guys, it makes sense now. It was really late at night when I responded to that post so that's the main reason it didn't make sense to me at the time, lol.

BTW, what conditions have to be met to get an instant win on an enemy on just a normal attack screen, not green? Green, I know also has conditions, but they aren't as high I'm sure. I've always wondered this, and I know we won't be able to do this in a run, just curious.

Nitrodon

2007-04-18 06:08:38 pm

Quote:

BTW, what conditions have to be met to get an instant win on an enemy on just a normal attack screen, not green? Green, I know also has conditions, but they aren't as high I'm sure. I've always wondered this, and I know we won't be able to do this in a run, just curious.

Every character other than Ness, Paula, Jeff or Poo is ignored.

1. You can't get an instant win on a red swirl.
2. You can't get an instant win while outnumbered.

Black swirl:
3. Your lowest speed must be greater than the highest enemy speed.
4. Twice your lowest offense must be greater than each enemy's HP+def.

Green swirl:
3. There's exactly one condition here, but I don't know it. I do know that only one character's offense needs to satisfy it, though. The condition is very long, at least in code (409 bytes).

Floogal

2007-04-19 12:37:54 am

Quote:

If you make it to Deep Darkness without Teleport (the only way I can think to do it would be to walk across the desert back to Fourside after getting the Trout Yogurt Machine, but I'm amazed the game doesn't block you in Fourside), does that mean you could, even at a massive time loss, skip Teleport a permanently with Ness? Once you clear Magnicant, would Ness just know Teleport B and not Teleport a? Does that monkey wait forever for you?

Yeah, simply walk/bus back to Fourside after the Monkey Caves.
- Even though Poo is gone and Ness doesn't know Teleport, you can still teach it to the monkey in Deep Darkness for the Monkey's Love item.
- After Magicant, Ness will automatically learn both Teleport alpha and beta.
- Yes, the monkey in the desert will wait for you forever. You can get him to teach you after Magicant, which will have no effect. Finally, the monkey will only teach Ness; if he's unconscious, the monkey will ask for the boy with the baseball cap.

Quote:

What does the hint man tell you if you have a complete sound stone and haven't gone to Magnicant? That seems like a very uncanny situation, and I'm wondering if doing that would let you see any unique dialogue. Earthbound seems to have planned for almost everything so I'm sure you can't cause any serious problems, but it's interesting.

Nuts, I never thought to check the hint man, and the save file is long gone.

Quote:

Does this mean we can possibly go to maybe Dalaam as the very last sanctuary and go to magicant from there? At that point, we will be a pretty good level for that, making Pink Cloud a breeze. I'm just putting it out there; if it's too much out of the way, we will skip what we originally intended to skip (doing Pink Cloud last is the best before Fire Spring, being the hardest at a low level IMO).

Yes, you can do Pink Cloud last. However, unless you're picking up an Exit Mouse somewhere, it's quicker to backtrack out of the Pink Cloud dungeon than the Fire Spring Dungeon. You could always death-warp, but good luck trying to do that quickly against enemies that run away from you after a complete healing by the sanctuary.

Quote:

4. Thanks for those Floogal. Even with that 12.5% to OHKO an enemy with Flash Beta, though, I think we should still go through with killing Kracken with it in the run. I was able to do it with few restarts, but I know it will get more random than that for people. I think we should still consider taking at least 2 turns to try and kill Kracken with Flash.

Check [link=http://starmen.net/mother2/ebdb/enemies.php?enemy=48]here[/link]. Flash only hits Kraken 50% of the time, so the chance for a OHKO is really 6.25%, or 1 in 16. Still, go for it, if you want. Taking two turns seems reasonable.

Quote:

A small correction to the bottle rockets entry: BBRs/MBRs are like firing off 5/20 bottle rockets *before* the +/- 25% random variation.

So, if a single bottle rocket has 60% accuracy, then a Multi-Bottle Rocket does 0.60 x (20 x 120) +/- 25%, or 1080 to 1800 damage?

Quote:

Some effects can be evaded with probability luck/80 or luck/50, but that seems to be the only effect of Luck.

Does that mean that it is pointless to boost your luck above 80?

Quote:

Every character other than Ness, Paula, Jeff or Poo is ignored.

1. You can't get an instant win on a red swirl.
2. You can't get an instant win while outnumbered.

Black swirl:
3. Your lowest speed must be greater than the highest enemy speed.
4. Twice your lowest offense must be greater than each enemy's HP+def.

So, basically, you need to be able to OHKO everyone with bashes before any of the enemies attack, allowing for any possible combination of party member attacking order and enemy targetting.

If weapon accuracy isn't taken into effect, then there's finally a good reason to use the Casey Bat (actually, not really, as Ness probably isn't the one with the lowest offense).

Quote:

Green swirl:
3. There's exactly one condition here, but I don't know it. I do know that only one character's offense needs to satisfy it, though. The condition is very long, at least in code (409 bytes).

I did a few tests with my level 99 file, and I'm a bit confused.

I can green-swirl-instant-win against a Wetnosaur with the following characters' offenses: (Ness, Paula, Jeff, Poo)
255, 199, 224, 237.

I can still instant-win if I equip the Magic Fry Pan on Paula instead, dropping her offense to 169. I lose the ability to instant-win if I remove a weapon from her entirely (dropping her offense to 119).

Similarly, I can still instant-win by de-equipping Poo's Sword, dropping his offense to 207. I lose the ability to instant-win if both Paula changes to the Magic Fry Pan and Poo goes bare-fisted.

Oddly, if Ness de-equips his bat, dropping his offense to 177 (which is higher than Paula with the Magic Fry Pan), I lose the ability to instant-win.

So, yes for instant-win:
255, 199, 224, 237;
255, 169, 224, 237;
255, 199, 224, 207;

No for instant-win:
255, 119, 224, 207;
255, 169, 224, 207;
177, 199, 224, 237;

[quote]If you make it to Deep Darkness without Teleport (the only way I can think to do it would be to walk across the desert back to Fourside after getting the Trout Yogurt Machine, but I'm amazed the game doesn't block you in Fourside), does that mean you could, even at a massive time loss, skip Teleport a permanently with Ness?  Once you clear Magnicant, would Ness just know Teleport B and not Teleport a?  Does that monkey wait forever for you?[/quote]
Yeah, simply walk/bus back to Fourside after the Monkey Caves.
- Even though Poo is gone and Ness doesn't know Teleport, you can still teach it to the monkey in Deep Darkness for the Monkey's Love item.
- After Magicant, Ness will automatically learn both Teleport alpha and beta.
- Yes, the monkey in the desert will wait for you forever.  You can get him to teach you after Magicant, which will have no effect.  Finally, the monkey will only teach Ness; if he's unconscious, the monkey will ask for the boy with the baseball cap.

[quote]What does the hint man tell you if you have a complete sound stone and haven't gone to Magnicant?  That seems like a very uncanny situation, and I'm wondering if doing that would let you see any unique dialogue.  Earthbound seems to have planned for almost everything so I'm sure you can't cause any serious problems, but it's interesting.[/quote]
Nuts, I never thought to check the hint man, and the save file is long gone.

[quote]Does this mean we can possibly go to maybe Dalaam as the very last sanctuary and go to magicant from there? At that point, we will be a pretty good level for that, making Pink Cloud a breeze. I'm just putting it out there; if it's too much out of the way, we will skip what we originally intended to skip (doing Pink Cloud last is the best before Fire Spring, being the hardest at a low level IMO).[/quote]
Yes, you can do Pink Cloud last.  However, unless you're picking up an Exit Mouse somewhere, it's quicker to backtrack out of the Pink Cloud dungeon than the Fire Spring Dungeon.  You could always death-warp, but good luck trying to do that quickly against enemies that run away from you after a complete healing by the sanctuary.

[quote]4. Thanks for those Floogal. Even with that 12.5% to OHKO an enemy with Flash Beta, though, I think we should still go through with killing Kracken with it in the run. I was able to do it with few restarts, but I know it will get more random than that for people. I think we should still consider taking [b]at least[/b] 2 turns to try and kill Kracken with Flash.[/quote]
Check [link=http://starmen.net/mother2/ebdb/enemies.php?enemy=48]here[/link].  Flash only hits Kraken 50% of the time, so the chance for a OHKO is really 6.25%, or 1 in 16.  Still, go for it, if you want.  Taking two turns seems reasonable.

[quote]A small correction to the bottle rockets entry: BBRs/MBRs are like firing off 5/20 bottle rockets *before* the +/- 25% random variation.[/quote]
So, if a single bottle rocket has 60% accuracy, then a Multi-Bottle Rocket does 0.60 x (20 x 120) +/- 25%, or 1080 to 1800 damage?

[quote]Some effects can be evaded with probability luck/80 or luck/50, but that seems to be the only effect of Luck.[/quote]
Does that mean that it is pointless to boost your luck above 80?

[quote]Every character other than Ness, Paula, Jeff or Poo is ignored.

1. You can't get an instant win on a red swirl.
2. You can't get an instant win while outnumbered.

Black swirl:
3. Your lowest speed must be greater than the highest enemy speed.
4. Twice your lowest offense must be greater than each enemy's HP+def.[/quote]
So, basically, you need to be able to OHKO everyone with bashes before any of the enemies attack, allowing for any possible combination of party member attacking order and enemy targetting.

If weapon accuracy isn't taken into effect, then there's finally a good reason to use the Casey Bat (actually, not really, as Ness probably isn't the one with the lowest offense).

[quote]Green swirl:
3. There's exactly one condition here, but I don't know it. I do know that only one character's offense needs to satisfy it, though.  The condition is very long, at least in code (409 bytes).[/quote]
I did a few tests with my level 99 file, and I'm a bit confused.

I can green-swirl-instant-win against a Wetnosaur with the following characters' offenses: (Ness, Paula, Jeff, Poo)
255, 199, 224, 237.

I can still instant-win if I equip the Magic Fry Pan on Paula instead, dropping her offense to 169.  I lose the ability to instant-win if I remove a weapon from her entirely (dropping her offense to 119).

Similarly, I can still instant-win by de-equipping Poo's Sword, dropping his offense to 207.  I lose the ability to instant-win if both Paula changes to the Magic Fry Pan and Poo goes bare-fisted.

Oddly, if Ness de-equips his bat, dropping his offense to 177 (which is higher than Paula with the Magic Fry Pan), I lose the ability to instant-win.

So, yes for instant-win:
255, 199, 224, 237;
255, 169, 224, 237;
255, 199, 224, 207;

No for instant-win:
255, 119, 224, 207;
255, 169, 224, 207;
177, 199, 224, 237;

Nitrodon

2007-04-19 01:12:38 am

It looks like I was completely wrong about that. I still haven't figured out one of the big loops, but my current estimate is:

Green swirl:
3. Each character "attacks" an enemy in a certain order, dealing exactly 2*offense+defense damage. If every enemy is "killed", you automatically win. (Note that if you don't automatically win, the enemies start with full HP, of course)

morodren

2007-04-25 04:30:00 am

Easily Amused

Any updates from our potential runners? I'm really looking forward to a great run of this game..

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2007-04-25 05:03:26 am

2007-04-25 05:00:49 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Umm... well, I still need to get a good route going, but with school going and all, it's been hard the past few months or so to get that together with all the workload.

I will have alot more time to start practicing this game over the summer after I finish my current run (almost done). If anybody else is willing to run this game, though, I won't mind the competition. Tongue

Nah, if anybody else wants to take this up before the summer, that is fine with me. If that person needs help on a route, the other dedicated people to this thread and I will help all we can. I want to do this game, I really do, but since it's so random, it will take longer to plan IMO than most RPG's that I've played.

Also, I'm glad there is another person interested in seeing this run. It's nice to have as much support as we can get on a game that doesn't seem to be very popular around here...

Floogal

2007-04-27 05:38:36 am

This is pure speculation, so don't get excited now....

I was thinking about that tedious 3-minute wait at Grapefruit Falls, and if we could somehow avoid it.

Then I started wondering about confusing the timer by combining it with something else -- like, say, ordering a pizza at Saturn Valley right before going to the falls, would the game use the already-started Mach timer for determining when you can enter the base? Or, perhaps, we could come stocked with eggs, and the game would use the 30-second egg-hatching timer...? Maybe I'm just being overly-hopeful.

Anyways, I can confirm that if you order a pizza and then immediately save & reset the game, when you start up your file, the pizza-delivery man will arrive within about 30 seconds, as opposed to the usual 3 minutes. So if you want to make use of Pizzas in your run, consider ordering one right before ending a segment.

Mickey_Mage

2007-04-27 08:25:06 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

How would we get to the falls from Saturn Valley in 30 seconds? Skip sandwich is the closest I can think of, but it is very hard to manipulate not being attacked by roaches at all in the cave between the two, plus we have to make sure there are no enemies blocking the passage once out of the cave, and we have safe passage to the waterfall. I know that being in battle doesn't affect time, but if there are enemies outside the cave, we would have to fight them, and waste the health (and time maybe) that we need in Belch's Factory.

IF we can make it to the falls before the pizza man gets there, maybe it can be interrupted, though. That seems to be the only way at this point, since saving interrupts the pizza man's time. Do eggs hatch faster then if you save right after getting eggs? I don't know enough about programming to answer it to that extent, but it just seems a little out there.

Is it the same time for all sizes of pizza because pizza is expensive for how much money we will have.

It's a separate timer I'm sure since you walk up to the waterfall door, you see the text, wait the 3 min. until the the next text comes up to say "you may enter". Code probably starts when said text comes up and ends when next said text comes up to end the code strand.

Sorry if I'm not making any sense, it's about 3 in the morning and I need to get to bed right after this...

How would we get to the falls from Saturn Valley in 30 seconds? Skip sandwich is the closest I can think of, but it is very hard to manipulate not being attacked by roaches at all in the cave between the two, plus we have to make sure there are no enemies blocking the passage once out of the cave, and we have safe passage to the waterfall. I know that being in battle doesn't affect time, but if there are enemies outside the cave, we would have to fight them, and waste the health (and time maybe) that we need in Belch's Factory.

IF we can make it to the falls before the pizza man gets there, maybe it can be interrupted, though. That seems to be the only way at this point, since saving interrupts the pizza man's time. Do eggs hatch faster then if you save right after getting eggs? I don't know enough about programming to answer it to that extent, but it just seems a little out there.

Is it the same time for all sizes of pizza because pizza is expensive for how much money we will have.

It's a separate timer I'm sure since you walk up to the waterfall door, you see the text, wait the 3 min. until the the next text comes up to say "you may enter". Code probably starts when said text comes up and ends when next said text comes up to end the code strand.

Sorry if I'm not making any sense, it's about 3 in the morning and I need to get to bed right after this...

Floogal

2007-04-28 07:36:01 am

Sorry, I must not have been too clear. I was mentioning two entirely separate ideas.

The order-save-reset-get-in-30-secs idea was for actually wanting to order a pizza. It might be faster to order one for the Monkey Caves instead of collecting the one within or winning one from a battle. And the large pizza is pretty much a complete recovery for the whole party (minus Poo).

I doubt that getting the funds for one is worth it, though, and I also doubt that waiting 30 seconds instead 180 seconds is helpful, as you can continue doing other stuff in the meantime.

If my confuse-the-grapefruit-password-timer trick has any merit (which it probably doesn't), you would order the pizza normally, which would give you three minutes to reach the falls.

I'm just throwing an idea out there, in the hopes that it will spark a similar/different idea for someone else.

Mickey_Mage

2007-04-28 08:00:56 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Could anybody possibly test this on an emulator, if it's not too much trouble?

If it did work, it would at least be one of those fun, pointless glitches like in other games for people to use on their own in a normal playthrough where they would have more money for this kind of thing. I mean it is a REALLY annoying part of the game, anyway, so why not, lol.

I know we should put more emphasis on the actual run instead of something we know that might not work, but at the time, any little thing we think of would be great with a game that seems to be practically glitchless as of like skipping or screwing with major parts of the game.

Floogal

2007-06-28 04:31:54 am

*Floogal used an information link! The Anti-bump Monster became tame!*
*SDA and its friends gained 06/27/07 experience points!*

Take a look at this video:

I got it from this thread at starmen.net: http://starmen.net/forum/?t=msg&th=34821

Amazing Ampharos

2007-06-28 11:41:48 am

Hmm, that's interesting. Is there anywhere it can be used to substantially sequence break? Like, could you use it in Moonside to skip getting the golden tooth man? Hmm, maybe you could get past the cops south of Onett and break the game wide open (especially if you do it during the first night!).

The way the Zombies in Threed work likely means you can't skip doing all that (not to mention that I'm sure there would be some long term consequence to never getting Jeff). I doubt it would let you cheat through the tunnels around Threed either. Um, hey! There's the Rabbit Cave in Dalaam which could be useful, though I'm not so sure if you'd want to do that without doing Magnet Hill first anyway (I doubt that you could win with Poo alone, and I doubt that it would even be willing to fight you).

Meh, I can't think of anywhere else.

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2007-07-09 02:57:09 am

2007-07-09 02:55:24 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Oh my God, that is an insane find Shocked

I agree with Ampharos, if we could find other uses for this in other places, this game could actually have sequence breaks in it.

This wouldn't make it another category would it? Also, is this even possible on a console because this will definately get me back into playing this game again if so?

Edit: Oh, and to update, I have been neglecting the new route for a long time. I will try to continue it once I get into this game again. This game might be too random for me to run, I don't know yet, but I can certainly help with the new route to make it fast for anyone bold enough if I never get around to doing this run.

tuvok302

2007-07-11 09:56:28 pm

Earthbound is a great game

So, having spent many uneventful days at work reading through this topic, there is still no official speed run?

I'm thinking about doing a Speed-Run of this game, when I get it that is. I always enjoyed this game... but seeing as I've only beat it two or three times, I guess I should get it and refresh my memory before attempting it eh?

But still, I'd love to see a speed run posted. Even though I'd never be able to watch. At least not on my internet... *complains about dial-up*

Tiger

2007-07-12 02:04:08 am

does anyone know of a cheaper place to get this game than ebay? I'd be interested in contributing. From what I can tell it goes for $30-$40 on ebay and that's a little high for SNES game.

Mickey_Mage

2007-07-12 02:07:26 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Yeah, I wanted to do it, but I got into other games and it just left my interest for awhile.

I can help you with the new route, or I might join you in the speedrunning if I get the chance and we can help each other.

A good route is definately necessary before running a game like this, seeing as how a lot of luck is involved in something like this and it could drive a person insane after awhile.

I'm guessing you've seen the run ninja already made that's in my sig?

If you have anything to contribute that might help, feel free. It's always good to at least still discuss it further and plan a lot harder to make it a run that can actually be accepted.

The time Ninja got is actually a pretty good time, he just made a lot of mistakes that he shouldn't have, even with the luck involved.

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2007-07-12 02:12:59 am

2007-07-12 02:11:29 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Quote:

does anyone know of a cheaper place to get this game than ebay? I'd be interested in contributing. From what I can tell it goes for $30-$40 on ebay and that's a little high for SNES game.

That's not high for a SNES game. Especially not for a game that is this hard to find. SNES games used to go for more when they were sold in stores, so no, $30 is a great price for a game like this, trust me, even if it is just the cartrige.
I know a friend that his boss sold the game with the box and strategy guide for $60, which IMO is a good price and practically a steal.

If you were looking for Chrono Trigger, that game would be worth much more on Ebay than just 40 or 50 bucks. People would bid so much for such a rare game.

Edit: That is probably the cheapest you will find the game. Looking anywhere else, other sites would probably sell it for more, definately.

tuvok302

2007-07-12 06:46:28 pm

Earthbound is a great game

30-40? Where! Where!! from the looks of it, I'm gonna have to shell out an arm and a leg (about 150:P Well, 150 CAD.. so like... 140 USD), Wait.. I see it here for $50.. *blinks and rubs eyes* ...? I've never seen it that low... *jaw drops* *bids*. I bet it won't sell for under a hundred though, that's the way they always go *sighs*

PS... that 50 was for a very good condition complete.... the cart itself is selling for like $10.. *hits head on desk* When did EB drop in price...

Tiger

2007-07-13 12:09:56 am

ebay is always cheap I suppose. I can't believe you didn't know it was that cheap lol.

As soon as I have the cash I plan on purchasing all the great rpgs on the SNES (chrono trigger, super mario rpg, earthbound, FF3) there's so many it hurts thinking about it.

Ebay is probably the best place to get them.

Xaggoth

2007-07-13 01:37:08 am

Feh, you should be buying these things when they come out (remembers that he recently shelled out $40 for a FF2(4) cart).

Oh, I have a cart of Earthbound and would be willing to help test if I have the time. I'm not about to try and run it.

Mickey_Mage

2007-07-13 02:28:03 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

The more the merrier. Amphraros, Floogal, Nitrodon and I have done a lot already so far with talking about the old route itself and putting our ideas down for changes to the old route, there was just never one made. I did start a new route, and was collecting all the data I could and pasting it onto a Word document, but school got kind of busy at that time, so I got out of it. I hopefully will get more into this soon, as I have been playing a lot of old games recently, so I'm bound to get to this one pretty soon to help ya'll or actually run it myself.

Trust me, though, a game like this is foolish to just jump into. It may seem easy at first, but I tried speedrunning a little bit up to at least Frank on my system, and it took a buttload of time at level 4 to beat him, so I had to be higher. This game is nothing like Chrono Trigger fighting a low levels. Some people just dont get that :-/ Oh well. I believe evil_ninja was lower level at Frank, but I can't remember.

If you want to see what I have so far, just let me know and I can put down the most current route I have that is a big improvement from before.

To get the big things about the run that is in my sig, all you really have to do is read from page 18 or so if anybody hasn't gotten around to reading up to now, and doesn't want to skim through 30 pages, lol.

The more the merrier. Amphraros, Floogal, Nitrodon and I have done a lot already so far with talking about the old route itself and putting our ideas down for changes to the old route, there was just never one made. I did start a new route, and was collecting all the data I could and pasting it onto a Word document, but school got kind of busy at that time, so I got out of it. I hopefully will get more into this soon, as I have been playing a lot of old games recently, so I'm bound to get to this one pretty soon to help ya'll or actually run it myself.

Trust me, though, a game like this is foolish to just jump into. It may seem easy at first, but I tried speedrunning a little bit up to at least Frank on my system, and it took a buttload of time at level 4 to beat him, so I had to be higher. This game is nothing like Chrono Trigger fighting a low levels. Some people just dont get that  :-/ Oh well. I believe evil_ninja was lower level at Frank, but I can't remember.

If you want to see what I have so far, just let me know and I can put down the most current route I have that is a big improvement from before.

To get the big things about the run that is in my sig, all you really have to do is read from page 18 or so if anybody hasn't gotten around to reading up to now, and doesn't want to skim through 30 pages, lol.

Tiger

2007-07-14 05:17:45 pm

I've beaten frank at that level. just have lots of hamburgers.

Mickey_Mage

2007-07-15 12:06:11 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Well, it is a speedrun, so you won't have all that many. Plus, money will always be a huge factor, especially in the beginning. That's why we had a huge discussion over eggs awhile back. That is probably the best source of money for a speedrunner of this game. Too bad you can only get them in a couple of places in the beginning, though. You can stock up on hamburgers, yes, but you won't have more than what, like 4 or 5 maybe?

Tiger

2007-07-15 01:47:00 am

hmm, at that point in the game I usually have a lot of money so I can fill up on hamburgers, but I can understand how you might have a little trouble getting that much cash doing a speed run. I think there's a hamburger in one of the trash cans right around the burger shop... Other than that, you might get the super baseball cap from the secret lookout and sell it.

Mickey_Mage

2007-07-15 03:32:18 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Have you seen Evil_ninja's speedrun? He does get that hamburger in the trashcan, and then buys a few others, but only a few because of having hardly any cash :(.

I would almost suggest training a little more before fighting Frank because it's really hard to get a good fight with him I'm sure, and then with Frankystein Mark II. That's just me, and I know the next runner would need to copy Ninja if they were to be at par with him later on in the run.