Lemon Dr likes Apples oddly enough
Any progress yet?
Hey, just got done going through the game for my 7th time and wanted to know how the Speed Run was coming along? Any progress?
SDA Forum
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
We aren't really in the process of starting it just yet. I have been too busy with school lately to finish my revised route, but I will get more into this over my spring break.
Also, I have not checked on the teleporting thing in Lost Underworld, yet, but I can assure you I will definately check next week and get back to ya'll about it. I will also start testing other things that need to be tested, when I get home, as well.
You seem like you know this game pretty well TheWhiteRecluse. Feel free to start a run if you feel you can or have the time; or you can help with the new route. We need all the people we can get to improve ninja's run, especially people that actually have the console game. Testing on the emulator works too, but some things probably don't work the same on there as on the console (like maybe 1-2 things
but you know what I mean, lol). This is more of a planning stage more than actually getting a run done so, this will take some time and patience because it is such a random game.
Also, I have not checked on the teleporting thing in Lost Underworld, yet, but I can assure you I will definately check next week and get back to ya'll about it. I will also start testing other things that need to be tested, when I get home, as well.
You seem like you know this game pretty well TheWhiteRecluse. Feel free to start a run if you feel you can or have the time; or you can help with the new route. We need all the people we can get to improve ninja's run, especially people that actually have the console game. Testing on the emulator works too, but some things probably don't work the same on there as on the console (like maybe 1-2 things
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
I don't know what happened to the link :-/, but it works now. I just recopied and pasted the same link as before from nates post. If you right click and hit "save target as" it should work now; I just tried it.
This is the only console Earthbound run that I know of.
This is the only console Earthbound run that I know of.
Go Cubs!
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We aren't really in the process of starting it just yet. I have been too busy with school lately to finish my revised route, but I will get more into this over my spring break.
Also, I have not checked on the teleporting thing in Lost Underworld, yet, but I can assure you I will definately check next week and get back to ya'll about it. I will also start testing other things that need to be tested, when I get home, as well.
You seem like you know this game pretty well TheWhiteRecluse. Feel free to start a run if you feel you can or have the time; or you can help with the new route. We need all the people we can get to improve ninja's run, especially people that actually have the console game. Testing on the emulator works too, but some things probably don't work the same on there as on the console (like maybe 1-2 things but you know what I mean, lol). This is more of a planning stage more than actually getting a run done so, this will take some time and patience because it is such a random game.
Also, I have not checked on the teleporting thing in Lost Underworld, yet, but I can assure you I will definately check next week and get back to ya'll about it. I will also start testing other things that need to be tested, when I get home, as well.
You seem like you know this game pretty well TheWhiteRecluse. Feel free to start a run if you feel you can or have the time; or you can help with the new route. We need all the people we can get to improve ninja's run, especially people that actually have the console game. Testing on the emulator works too, but some things probably don't work the same on there as on the console (like maybe 1-2 things
Yea, i know the game pretty well. Right now i dont have an SNES with Earthbound but ive played through it on an emulator before. Ive never done a speed run and i never took the time to plan out a route but ill try... it never hurts to try. Being new to speedrunning i dont really know much about the "Technical" things. Would using the emulator be considered a TAS?
Emulated runs are not accepted at SDA not because it would automatically make it TAS(you could just not use the tools) but because there's no way to tell if you did use the tools. It's also illegal which is bad. Of course, using an emulator to practice or whatever isn't going to cause any problems with SDA's rules, but the final run must be on a console.
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
I'm checking on the teleport crash idea in Lost Underworld this week, to see if the game screws up if teleport is used too much to get through it faster.
Also, I am still working on my current run, and hope to get a better time at the end of the week. Once I improve my current recorded time, I will be able to put a little more time into this game.
Also, I am still working on my current run, and hope to get a better time at the end of the week. Once I improve my current recorded time, I will be able to put a little more time into this game.
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
Ok, I have gone up to the Lost Underworld in the past day and a half, and have checked on teleporting there. The game does not freeze or do anything if you teleport a lot in there and crash a lot. I never really saw a whole lot of enemies anyway, and when I did, I avoided where I knew I could, and then teleported. Is there a certain way that you have to teleport everytime for the game to freeze? It might be just on the emulator.
I did not train a whole lot in this game except at major points along the way. Belch's factory fighting foppies was a major one. I did train a considerable amount in the beginning with Ness just because I wanted to be able to get through the game without having to restart all that much. I trained on Blue Blue Cultist a fair amount, which is probably what a runner should maybe consider doing, too. I trained more than a runner normally would with Paula, too, just for the heck of it in Mondo Mole cave. I had horrible luck with snakes fighting me every two minutes in the desert mole cave, so that didn't help a whole lot... It even made me leave and recover before going back to the last mole. I have never seen that many snakes in my life in there!!! After that, it was mainly fighting a few guys here and there for either quick experience, or to get the jump on enemies to run away from them. Fighting Starmen in the base in Winters is a good idea I think, and definately fighting Fobbies in Lumine Hall.
Using the neutralizer against Clumsy Robot was incredibly helpful since we probably will not buy a whole lot of super bombs to save money, and neither Ness nor Jeff can really take a whole lot of damage physically from the robot, anyway. I had really bad luck at the robot, too. One time he did not eat any bologne sandwiches, and bandaged himself twice, and shot me twice with rockets. The time I beat him, he only ate one bologne sandwich, but didn't really do a whole lot of damage to Ness and Jeff.
I skipped Thunder and Storm in Dalaam, and when you go on the boat to Scaraba, the captain mentions the Carrot Key that you have after he talks about you as travelers. I was able to kill Kraken with Flash beta with only 2 restarts. I used flash beta twice in the battle to get the result so, I think a speedrunner should allow two misses with flash before considering restarting.
I want to note that I did obtain flash beta after beating the rat for the 5th Sanctuary. Like I said before, I did go through this game training a little more than the average speedrunner would; I am at Lost Underworld at about level 50 per character, but I will not train anymore for the rest of the game probably.
Teleporting on the helipad after you beat the Clumsy robot is almost impossible without good reflexes of the player and good reaction from the controller. Practice might help since you can go back to the helipad anytime you want later, though.
I really enjoyed teleporting in Deep Darkness; and with a little practice, someone can go through it fairly well without mistakes I think. It does move it along a lot faster than I ever thought, not ever doing it myself.
I put the Rabbit's foot on Jeff and will see how that goes against Giygas. I also did not buy but maybe a couple of weapons for Paula, and defensive gear for only the people that needed it when I was low on money (especially summers). Also, I really need to write down where all the cameramen are; they are so annoying :-/
Sorry this is all a jumble of ideas, I wrote stuff as I remembered them a couple of hours ago. If I missed anything, just let me know.
I did not train a whole lot in this game except at major points along the way. Belch's factory fighting foppies was a major one. I did train a considerable amount in the beginning with Ness just because I wanted to be able to get through the game without having to restart all that much. I trained on Blue Blue Cultist a fair amount, which is probably what a runner should maybe consider doing, too. I trained more than a runner normally would with Paula, too, just for the heck of it in Mondo Mole cave. I had horrible luck with snakes fighting me every two minutes in the desert mole cave, so that didn't help a whole lot... It even made me leave and recover before going back to the last mole. I have never seen that many snakes in my life in there!!! After that, it was mainly fighting a few guys here and there for either quick experience, or to get the jump on enemies to run away from them. Fighting Starmen in the base in Winters is a good idea I think, and definately fighting Fobbies in Lumine Hall.
Using the neutralizer against Clumsy Robot was incredibly helpful since we probably will not buy a whole lot of super bombs to save money, and neither Ness nor Jeff can really take a whole lot of damage physically from the robot, anyway. I had really bad luck at the robot, too. One time he did not eat any bologne sandwiches, and bandaged himself twice, and shot me twice with rockets. The time I beat him, he only ate one bologne sandwich, but didn't really do a whole lot of damage to Ness and Jeff.
I skipped Thunder and Storm in Dalaam, and when you go on the boat to Scaraba, the captain mentions the Carrot Key that you have after he talks about you as travelers. I was able to kill Kraken with Flash beta with only 2 restarts. I used flash beta twice in the battle to get the result so, I think a speedrunner should allow two misses with flash before considering restarting.
I want to note that I did obtain flash beta after beating the rat for the 5th Sanctuary. Like I said before, I did go through this game training a little more than the average speedrunner would; I am at Lost Underworld at about level 50 per character, but I will not train anymore for the rest of the game probably.
Teleporting on the helipad after you beat the Clumsy robot is almost impossible without good reflexes of the player and good reaction from the controller. Practice might help since you can go back to the helipad anytime you want later, though.
I really enjoyed teleporting in Deep Darkness; and with a little practice, someone can go through it fairly well without mistakes I think. It does move it along a lot faster than I ever thought, not ever doing it myself.
I put the Rabbit's foot on Jeff and will see how that goes against Giygas. I also did not buy but maybe a couple of weapons for Paula, and defensive gear for only the people that needed it when I was low on money (especially summers). Also, I really need to write down where all the cameramen are; they are so annoying :-/
Sorry this is all a jumble of ideas, I wrote stuff as I remembered them a couple of hours ago. If I missed anything, just let me know.
Some new things.
First of all, yes, you can give the scruffy kid in Fourside a Protractor in order to talk to Everdred. He wouldn't accept a Franklin Badge or Cash Card, though, so I'm guessing that he'll accept anything that the game allows you to drop/sell.
Secondly, I want to bring up the idea of death-warping. Would it save time?
One thing I'm think of is saving in Threed before going to Saturn Valley, and then intentionally losing after defeating Trillionage Sprout to warp back to Threed. That would be some segment, though.
Or perhaps saving in Fourside, going to the Monkey Caves, and death-warping back to Fourside afterwards...
There are limitations to it. For example, if you save in Saturn Valley and then go to the Cave of the Past and lose a battle, you will restart at the beginning of the Cave of the Past, but if you reset, you'll still start at your last save in Saturn Valley. There might be other such limitations elsewhere.
First of all, yes, you can give the scruffy kid in Fourside a Protractor in order to talk to Everdred. He wouldn't accept a Franklin Badge or Cash Card, though, so I'm guessing that he'll accept anything that the game allows you to drop/sell.
Secondly, I want to bring up the idea of death-warping. Would it save time?
One thing I'm think of is saving in Threed before going to Saturn Valley, and then intentionally losing after defeating Trillionage Sprout to warp back to Threed. That would be some segment, though.
Or perhaps saving in Fourside, going to the Monkey Caves, and death-warping back to Fourside afterwards...
There are limitations to it. For example, if you save in Saturn Valley and then go to the Cave of the Past and lose a battle, you will restart at the beginning of the Cave of the Past, but if you reset, you'll still start at your last save in Saturn Valley. There might be other such limitations elsewhere.
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
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First of all, yes, you can give the scruffy kid in Fourside a Protractor in order to talk to Everdred. He wouldn't accept a Franklin Badge or Cash Card, though, so I'm guessing that he'll accept anything that the game allows you to drop/sell.
That's great to know. Now we have a reason to keep the protractor (FINALLY). Also, we need the Franklin's badge, especially in Magicant, are you crazy, lol. I know he doesn't take it, but still.
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Secondly, I want to bring up the idea of death-warping. Would it save time?
Money is a huge issue with death warping, though; it will only work if the next place we go is free for reviving and sleeping (you have to revive the others and then recover Ness's PP). Also, we can't do it after Trillionage Sprout because we are going to try to spawn a Criminal Caterpillar after saving in the drugstore in the desert. Plus, that would be too long of a segment, and a really hard one, too, beating Trillionage in the same segment as going through the underground and fighting Belch. :-/
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Or perhaps saving in Fourside, going to the Monkey Caves, and death-warping back to Fourside afterwards...
Enemies are hard to find in there, plus they are pretty weak, too.
I am sure we can find a few places to try this, though. I will help you look for some places (if it is SDA legal) that will work better.
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There are limitations to it. For example, if you save in Saturn Valley and then go to the Cave of the Past and lose a battle, you will restart at the beginning of the Cave of the Past, but if you reset, you'll still start at your last save in Saturn Valley. There might be other such limitations elsewhere.
Well, you know the game always goes back to the last save but lose everything you gained before resetting (I know that is obvious, though). Dieing is different than cutting the system off (or resetting) because you keep all of your experience you gained before you died, but lose half of your money (what is the exact percentage you lose each time?). Losing all that money makes death-warping almost completely useless in a speedrun, even if you can recover yourself for free to save more money.
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If you do, it becomes a different speedrun.
This might make it a different category, yes, you are right. I am not too clear about SDA rules when it comes to something like this, especially in a game where you actually keep all your experience and items, but lose money.
Talk to the Hand
If I remember the way money works in this game, don't you have to take it out of the ATM first? IE, when you win battles, you DON'T get any money directly. The obvious way around that would be the carry as little money as possible with you at any given time.
Note that even this may not make up for the time it'd take reviving your allies/restoring Ness's PP, free or no.
Note that even this may not make up for the time it'd take reviving your allies/restoring Ness's PP, free or no.
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
No, you don't get the money directly, but it does save a little time in a speedrun IMO if we take all of the money out beforehand, and then buy something, instead of trying to take out the exact amount, or an approximate amount of money for the items we need.
Why would we need to deposit the money back after we buy something, that takes too much time sometimes I think?
Note that there are not many places in the game where you can sleep or revive for free. The pink hotsprings revive your allies, but do not recover PP for Ness or any characters alive, just status effects and HP (I think). There are only a couple of those in the game, but it takes too long to take effect. You are only forced to go into the hotsprings once, and that is after Belch because of your smell. Off the top of my head, places that have hotsprings nearby are Saturn Valley and Tenda Village. Places to sleep for free include: Ness's house, Winters, Saturn valley, the desert house, Scaraba (in the Maze Man's body), Deep Darkness, Tenda Village, Lost Underworld, Magicant, and the Past (which also revives with the pig). I know I might have missed a few, but I can't think straight right now because I have been having too bad of a day today. :-/ I'll try to say more later when I can think more clearly.
Why would we need to deposit the money back after we buy something, that takes too much time sometimes I think?
Note that there are not many places in the game where you can sleep or revive for free. The pink hotsprings revive your allies, but do not recover PP for Ness or any characters alive, just status effects and HP (I think). There are only a couple of those in the game, but it takes too long to take effect. You are only forced to go into the hotsprings once, and that is after Belch because of your smell. Off the top of my head, places that have hotsprings nearby are Saturn Valley and Tenda Village. Places to sleep for free include: Ness's house, Winters, Saturn valley, the desert house, Scaraba (in the Maze Man's body), Deep Darkness, Tenda Village, Lost Underworld, Magicant, and the Past (which also revives with the pig). I know I might have missed a few, but I can't think straight right now because I have been having too bad of a day today. :-/ I'll try to say more later when I can think more clearly.
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You are only forced to go into the hotsprings once, and that is after Belch because of your smell.
You're not forced to go in the hotsprings -- I didn't on my latest playthrough.
I did go in them much later in the game, and the same message about washing off the gunk appeared. I guess it appears the first time you go in that particular hotspring, and the developers assumed the player always would.
The only reason the TAS went into the hotsprings was to cure Jeff's nausia.
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
Ok, I just thought it was always one of those things you had to do or you could not progress. Remember, though, we will not have healing beta either at that point just like the TAS. As far as I know, Belch almost always makes someone nauseous so, we need some way to cure that person before we save.
Instead of the hotspring I guess we could just do what we were anyway and go to the hospital first (to heal the nauseated person, dead or not), and then sleep at the inn, then save, and then go to Trillionage. That will work better since we can't do what the TAS did and go straight to Trillionage since that would practically be suicide. Also because we need to luck manipulate that cave.
Instead of the hotspring I guess we could just do what we were anyway and go to the hospital first (to heal the nauseated person, dead or not), and then sleep at the inn, then save, and then go to Trillionage. That will work better since we can't do what the TAS did and go straight to Trillionage since that would practically be suicide. Also because we need to luck manipulate that cave.
I don't think the Mr. Saturn will do buisiness with you if you smell. You don't need to be able to do buisiness with them to progress the game, but you might not be able to stay at the inn or use the hospital. I also don't think there's much difference between going to the hospital and using the hot springs in the first place.
Bump time! I've got a speedrun trick to share, two failed tricks, and some data.
1) New (?) trick:
Following is one 5-10 second thing the TAS didn't skip:
When you first gain control of Poo in Dalaam, you don't need to talk to the Star Master before climbing the mountain to meditate.
I simply walked towards him from just behind the sign, and was able to squeeze between him and the rope.
He disappears after the meditating test, making me believe that it's not a glitch, but just someone you're supposed to optionally talk to (like the talking rock in the Lost Underworld village).
2) First failed trick:
Actually, it's more like beating a dead horse, as we already know that you can't skip the Hawk's Eye.
But let me just dash any remaining hopes into oblivion: once you enter the room in the pyramid with the Hawk's Eye, the game won't let you leave until you pick it up.
I guess this is to prevent the player from getting permanently stuck. If you go to Deep Darkness without the Hawk's Eye or Ness knowing Teleport (it's possible), then you wouldn't be able to progress.
3) Second failed trick:
I independently discovered (and then later read on the starmen.net forums...) that you can pick up the Carrot Key without actually recording the Magnet Hill melody.
Now, Magnet Hill is not one of the four sanctuaries that the designers thought would be possible to visit last. If you check PK Hack, you'll only see sprites for Ness waking up from Magicant in Lilliput Steps, Milky Well, Pink Cloud, and Fire Spring.
But that doesn't mean if you check all four "last" spots, you'll go to Magicant without having recorded Magnet Hill's melody. And if you then go to Magnet Hill and record the last melody, you won't go to Magicant. Ness will be walking around with a completed Sound Stone (and, no, Saturn Valley and Onett are still pre-Phase Distorter and pre-invaded, respectively).
Simply revisit any of the "last" sanctuaries to go Magicant. So much for hoping for a glitch like Oot's skipping of most of the Adult Temples. Oh well.
4) Free Data.
Using the levelling formula's I mentioned earlier in the thread, I whipped up a Microsoft Spreadsheet Document that listed each character's stat ranges for every level (yes, I'm still using Microsoft Works 2000 on Windows 98 S/E). It also has a fifth table for Ness after Magicant. If you know the game battle mechanics, then knowing what the possible stats are for each level could help in planning.
If you want a copy, PM me with your email (if it doesn't appear in your profile), and I'll send it to you.
Here are the only battle formulas I know (most of which I got from starmen.net):
Physical attacks:
- (2 x offense) - target's defence + random number
- for accuracy (ignoring Luck, crying, etc.), check [link=http://starmen.net/mother2/ebdb/weapons.php]here[/link]
- Smaaaash!!es do (4 x offense) - target's defence + no random number, and occur with probability (Guts / 500) (but always at least 5%).
Bottle Rockets:
- A normal bottle rocket does 120 damage on average (ignores defence, like all items)
- It's percentage accuracy is 100 + Jeff's Speed - (2 x enemy's speed).
- A Big Bottle Rocket is actually just firing off 5 normal Bottle Rockets at once.
- A Multi-Bottle Rocket is just 20 normal Bottle Rockets in one.
PSI Attacks ignore defence, and do fixed damage (within a range; PSI Rockin and PSI Lightning have a range of +/- 50%, whereas the others are within 25% of average).
PSI Flash (if it hits):
alpha: 75% Cry, 12.5% Confuse, 12.5% Numb
beta: 62.5% Cry, 12.5% Confuse, 12.5% Numb, 12.5% OHKO
gamma: 50% Cry, 12.5% Confuse, 12.5% Numb, 25% OHKO
omega: 37.5% Cry, 12.5% Confuse, 12.5% Numb, 37.5% OHKO
Enemies all have unique resistences to fire, freeze, and all status ailments -- check starmen.net.
For turn order, it's ordered by each character's speed +/- 50%. So your speed needs to be triple the enemy's for a guaranteed first attack. Which attacks you use seem to have an effect, too.
For running away, success is equal to ((speed of fastest ally) - (speed of fastest opponent) + 10 x (number of turns since beginning of battle)). Enemies that are paralyzed (and probably sleeping, etc.) are treated to have a speed of 0. You are always successful with a green-swirl surprise attack.
I have no idea how Luck works -- I'm guessing it's for evasion, and it probably affects items, too. I also don't know how much Guts protect you from mortal damage.
Hope this helps!
1) New (?) trick:
Following is one 5-10 second thing the TAS didn't skip:
When you first gain control of Poo in Dalaam, you don't need to talk to the Star Master before climbing the mountain to meditate.
I simply walked towards him from just behind the sign, and was able to squeeze between him and the rope.
He disappears after the meditating test, making me believe that it's not a glitch, but just someone you're supposed to optionally talk to (like the talking rock in the Lost Underworld village).
2) First failed trick:
Actually, it's more like beating a dead horse, as we already know that you can't skip the Hawk's Eye.
But let me just dash any remaining hopes into oblivion: once you enter the room in the pyramid with the Hawk's Eye, the game won't let you leave until you pick it up.
I guess this is to prevent the player from getting permanently stuck. If you go to Deep Darkness without the Hawk's Eye or Ness knowing Teleport (it's possible), then you wouldn't be able to progress.
3) Second failed trick:
I independently discovered (and then later read on the starmen.net forums...) that you can pick up the Carrot Key without actually recording the Magnet Hill melody.
Now, Magnet Hill is not one of the four sanctuaries that the designers thought would be possible to visit last. If you check PK Hack, you'll only see sprites for Ness waking up from Magicant in Lilliput Steps, Milky Well, Pink Cloud, and Fire Spring.
But that doesn't mean if you check all four "last" spots, you'll go to Magicant without having recorded Magnet Hill's melody. And if you then go to Magnet Hill and record the last melody, you won't go to Magicant. Ness will be walking around with a completed Sound Stone (and, no, Saturn Valley and Onett are still pre-Phase Distorter and pre-invaded, respectively).
Simply revisit any of the "last" sanctuaries to go Magicant. So much for hoping for a glitch like Oot's skipping of most of the Adult Temples. Oh well.
4) Free Data.
Using the levelling formula's I mentioned earlier in the thread, I whipped up a Microsoft Spreadsheet Document that listed each character's stat ranges for every level (yes, I'm still using Microsoft Works 2000 on Windows 98 S/E). It also has a fifth table for Ness after Magicant. If you know the game battle mechanics, then knowing what the possible stats are for each level could help in planning.
If you want a copy, PM me with your email (if it doesn't appear in your profile), and I'll send it to you.
Here are the only battle formulas I know (most of which I got from starmen.net):
Physical attacks:
- (2 x offense) - target's defence + random number
- for accuracy (ignoring Luck, crying, etc.), check [link=http://starmen.net/mother2/ebdb/weapons.php]here[/link]
- Smaaaash!!es do (4 x offense) - target's defence + no random number, and occur with probability (Guts / 500) (but always at least 5%).
Bottle Rockets:
- A normal bottle rocket does 120 damage on average (ignores defence, like all items)
- It's percentage accuracy is 100 + Jeff's Speed - (2 x enemy's speed).
- A Big Bottle Rocket is actually just firing off 5 normal Bottle Rockets at once.
- A Multi-Bottle Rocket is just 20 normal Bottle Rockets in one.
PSI Attacks ignore defence, and do fixed damage (within a range; PSI Rockin and PSI Lightning have a range of +/- 50%, whereas the others are within 25% of average).
PSI Flash (if it hits):
alpha: 75% Cry, 12.5% Confuse, 12.5% Numb
beta: 62.5% Cry, 12.5% Confuse, 12.5% Numb, 12.5% OHKO
gamma: 50% Cry, 12.5% Confuse, 12.5% Numb, 25% OHKO
omega: 37.5% Cry, 12.5% Confuse, 12.5% Numb, 37.5% OHKO
Enemies all have unique resistences to fire, freeze, and all status ailments -- check starmen.net.
For turn order, it's ordered by each character's speed +/- 50%. So your speed needs to be triple the enemy's for a guaranteed first attack. Which attacks you use seem to have an effect, too.
For running away, success is equal to ((speed of fastest ally) - (speed of fastest opponent) + 10 x (number of turns since beginning of battle)). Enemies that are paralyzed (and probably sleeping, etc.) are treated to have a speed of 0. You are always successful with a green-swirl surprise attack.
I have no idea how Luck works -- I'm guessing it's for evasion, and it probably affects items, too. I also don't know how much Guts protect you from mortal damage.
Hope this helps!
If you make it to Deep Darkness without Teleport (the only way I can think to do it would be to walk across the desert back to Fourside after getting the Trout Yogurt Machine, but I'm amazed the game doesn't block you in Fourside), does that mean you could, even at a massive time loss, skip Teleport a permanently with Ness? Once you clear Magnicant, would Ness just know Teleport B and not Teleport a? Does that monkey wait forever for you?
What does the hint man tell you if you have a complete sound stone and haven't gone to Magnicant? That seems like a very uncanny situation, and I'm wondering if doing that would let you see any unique dialogue. Earthbound seems to have planned for almost everything so I'm sure you can't cause any serious problems, but it's interesting.
What does the hint man tell you if you have a complete sound stone and haven't gone to Magnicant? That seems like a very uncanny situation, and I'm wondering if doing that would let you see any unique dialogue. Earthbound seems to have planned for almost everything so I'm sure you can't cause any serious problems, but it's interesting.
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
To Floogal's post:
1. It's funny noone thought of that before now. Probably because it seems so obvious for you to talk to the master, you wouldn't ever think you could get through such a small space. I guess it's no different than going inbetween other objects in the game, though, like some bushes and other objects close together. Great find! I know it is probably because talking to the master was optional, but it seems kind of strange you can just go behind him/her in the first place. I wonder if there are any other places in the game you can slip by people, skipping a conversation.
2. Well, we already know that not having teleport cuts down on a lot you can do to save time, so that would be out of the question anyway really. They went to extremes to make sure you couldn't skip much. I guess that's what comes with a very linear game; it has it's small glitch-like things but skipping important parts is impossible (going out of order in the sanctuaries I guess is the programmers way of giving the players preference).
3. I wish this game was more like OoT, too, lol. As simple as the game is, they seemed to put a lot of time into preventing anything like this from ever happening.
Does this mean we can possibly go to maybe Dalaam as the very last sanctuary and go to magicant from there? At that point, we will be a pretty good level for that, making Pink Cloud a breeze. I'm just putting it out there; if it's too much out of the way, we will skip what we originally intended to skip (doing Pink Cloud last is the best before Fire Spring, being the hardest at a low level IMO).
4. Thanks for those Floogal. Even with that 12.5% to OHKO an enemy with Flash Beta, though, I think we should still go through with killing Kracken with it in the run. I was able to do it with few restarts, but I know it will get more random than that for people. I think we should still consider taking at least 2 turns to try and kill Kracken with Flash.
You need triple the speed of an enemy to attack first? Wow!! That just seems a little unreal to me... The more people you have, though, your party seems to have a better chance of going first anyways, I think. That's just from my own experience, I trust numbers in most cases, especially with something like this.
1. It's funny noone thought of that before now. Probably because it seems so obvious for you to talk to the master, you wouldn't ever think you could get through such a small space.
2. Well, we already know that not having teleport cuts down on a lot you can do to save time, so that would be out of the question anyway really. They went to extremes to make sure you couldn't skip much. I guess that's what comes with a very linear game; it has it's small glitch-like things but skipping important parts is impossible (going out of order in the sanctuaries I guess is the programmers way of giving the players preference).
3. I wish this game was more like OoT, too, lol. As simple as the game is, they seemed to put a lot of time into preventing anything like this from ever happening.
Does this mean we can possibly go to maybe Dalaam as the very last sanctuary and go to magicant from there? At that point, we will be a pretty good level for that, making Pink Cloud a breeze. I'm just putting it out there; if it's too much out of the way, we will skip what we originally intended to skip (doing Pink Cloud last is the best before Fire Spring, being the hardest at a low level IMO).
4. Thanks for those Floogal. Even with that 12.5% to OHKO an enemy with Flash Beta, though, I think we should still go through with killing Kracken with it in the run. I was able to do it with few restarts, but I know it will get more random than that for people. I think we should still consider taking at least 2 turns to try and kill Kracken with Flash.
You need triple the speed of an enemy to attack first? Wow!! That just seems a little unreal to me... The more people you have, though, your party seems to have a better chance of going first anyways, I think. That's just from my own experience, I trust numbers in most cases, especially with something like this.
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To Floogal's post:
You need triple the speed of an enemy to attack first? Wow!! That just seems a little unreal to me... The more people you have, though, your party seems to have a better chance of going first anyways, I think. That's just from my own experience, I trust numbers in most cases, especially with something like this.
You need triple the speed of an enemy to attack first? Wow!! That just seems a little unreal to me... The more people you have, though, your party seems to have a better chance of going first anyways, I think. That's just from my own experience, I trust numbers in most cases, especially with something like this.
I think he means to *guarantee* going first. If you have double the speed of an enemy, for instance, you'll go first about 70% of the time. Having 4 people improves your odds; if all four of your people have exactly twice the speed of one enemy, then the enemy should go first slightly less than 1% of the time.
Edit: the above numbers are if your speed is 6 and the opponent's is 3. Doing the same calculations at 8/4 makes you go first 82% of the time, and 99.9% of the time with four people. So, you'll still almost always go first if you're doubling the speed, but you need triple for it to happen every time.
You need triple the speed of the enemy to be 100% guaranteed of attacking first, but there's no reason you would need to be 100% certain. You have approximately a 97% chance of attacking first with double the enemy's speed, and at least a 50% chance if you're faster than the enemy at all. As for attacks having an effect on speed, the only time that happens is when the enemy tries to steal, in which case that enemy always acts last.
A small correction to the bottle rockets entry: BBRs/MBRs are like firing off 5/20 bottle rockets *before* the +/- 25% random variation.
Some effects can be evaded with probability luck/80 or luck/50, but that seems to be the only effect of Luck.
Avoiding mortal damage has the same probability as a SMAAAASH!. You can't avoid mortal damage if your HP is already 1 or less. If you're alone and kill the last enemy, you always avoid mortal damage during its final action (e.g., burst into flames), regardless of your HP before or after the attack.
A small correction to the bottle rockets entry: BBRs/MBRs are like firing off 5/20 bottle rockets *before* the +/- 25% random variation.
Some effects can be evaded with probability luck/80 or luck/50, but that seems to be the only effect of Luck.
Avoiding mortal damage has the same probability as a SMAAAASH!. You can't avoid mortal damage if your HP is already 1 or less. If you're alone and kill the last enemy, you always avoid mortal damage during its final action (e.g., burst into flames), regardless of your HP before or after the attack.