Dungeon Keeper

2009-03-27 11:01:30 am

Go play spacechem !

Quote:

Did you just sacrifice your creatures in the portal?!? What's going on at 6:40?

yes i did because i'm evil ^^, i also tend to starve my minions a lot in the runs i do :P.
They are technically not sacrificed because they join the creature pool who comes through the portal, so they are still available to any keeper (if the script conditions allow this).
You can send any creature back this way if you wont them.

Maybe i could/should have keep the beetles to sacrifice them in the temple for fast manufacturing.

Quote:

You could torture a troll a little earlier

yeah i know, its in the wrong thing list Tongue

. But its too many things to do and think of for my slow mind ^^. Anyway it was fast enough, dont forget they have accelerate and must obey (dont even know how it work, if it stack or not ). Create a torture chamber from one tile for quick torturing didnt come through my mind, well as you can see this run can be improved :).
Not sealing the hatchery path was a big mistake as they all stop working to feed themselves.

So sub 15 min is the next target? Grin

Quote:

Anyway that's a brilliant video. Good use of traps and spells. Oh, and sometimes my cursor behaves weird too. I thought it was just the batteries...

Thanks. Didnt knew the cave in spell was so broken until i tried it on this level.
I think 12114 has the same problem with the mouse behaviour, but i'll let him confirm/infirm this.

ps: on the good thing list i forgot to put : the blue keeper didnt die (yes, sometimes he dies from the white wave i send him :/)
ps2: dungeon keeper is awesome ! 8)

[quote]Did you just sacrifice your creatures in the portal?!? What's going on at 6:40?[/quote]
yes i did because i'm evil ^^, i also tend to starve my minions a lot in the runs i do :P.
They are technically not sacrificed because they join the creature pool who comes through the portal, so they are still available to any keeper (if the script conditions allow this).
You can send any creature back this way if you wont them.

Maybe i could/should have keep the beetles to sacrifice them in the temple for fast manufacturing.

[quote]You could torture a troll a little earlier[/quote]
yeah i know, its in the wrong thing list :P . But its too many things to do and think of for my slow mind ^^. Anyway it was fast enough, dont forget they have accelerate and must obey (dont even know how it work, if it stack or not ). Create a torture chamber from one tile for quick torturing didnt come through my mind, well as you can see this run can be improved :).
Not sealing the hatchery path was a big mistake as they all stop working to feed themselves.

So sub 15 min is the next target?  ;D

[quote]
Anyway that's a brilliant video. Good use of traps and spells. Oh, and sometimes my cursor behaves weird too. I thought it was just the batteries...[/quote]
Thanks. Didnt knew the cave in spell was so broken until i tried it on this level.
I think 12114 has the same problem with the mouse behaviour, but i'll let him confirm/infirm this.

ps: on the good thing list i forgot to put : the blue keeper didnt die (yes, sometimes he dies from the white wave i send him :/)
ps2: dungeon keeper is awesome !  8)

Poesta

2009-03-27 11:24:30 am

Yarr

K, some more questions:
You didn't use must obey, did you?
Where did you get the horned reaper? It appeared right when you were dropping creatures into the portal. I didn't know that, when I get flies I always slap them to death.
Why don't you want the blue keeper to die?
What's so broken about the cave in spell?
What's the white wave? :-[

zoonel

2009-03-27 12:13:56 pm

Go play spacechem !

You didn't use must obey, did you?
I did, @ 3:21. I always put it once its researched

Where did you get the horned reaper? It appeared right when you were dropping creatures into the portal. I didn't know that, when I get flies I always slap them to death.
There is an unclaimed lvl 10 horned reaper (he is near the torture chamber), usually i claim him with an imp, but this time a fly claimed the reaper for me. Flies tends to explore a lot and get killed.

Why don't you want the blue keeper to die?
Because when you kill the first avatar, after 50 sec, a bunch of heroes appear and one of those heroes appear where the blue dungeonheart is. The blue keeper kill those heroes fast enough, if the blue keeper is killed, i cant claim his dungeon (no bridges) thus cant lay traps (which requires too much time to be created anyway)and those heroes have lot of life (barbarians and brutes).

What's so broken about the cave in spell?
Its overpowered, you can cast it over and over and its still stacks. Killing an avatar in 10 sec for me is a broken thing. Not to mention the target run away from everything and get stuck in a door without trying to destroy it.

What's the white wave?
Its the heroes tentacles + horny + witch, they are white and when i kill the white heart they attack the blue keeper because they cant find a path to my dungeon (thanks to the guard post)

[i]You didn't use must obey, did you?[/i]
I did, @ 3:21. I always put it once its researched

[i]Where did you get the horned reaper? It appeared right when you were dropping creatures into the portal. I didn't know that, when I get flies I always slap them to death.[/i]
There is an unclaimed lvl 10 horned reaper (he is near the torture chamber), usually i claim him with an imp, but this time a fly claimed the reaper for me. Flies tends to explore a lot and get killed.

[i]Why don't you want the blue keeper to die?[/i]
Because when you kill the first avatar, after 50 sec, a bunch of heroes appear and one of those heroes appear where the blue dungeonheart is. The blue keeper kill those heroes fast enough, if the blue keeper is killed, i cant claim his dungeon (no bridges) thus cant lay traps (which requires too much time to be created anyway)and those heroes have lot of life (barbarians and brutes).

[i]What's so broken about the cave in spell?[/i]
Its overpowered, you can cast it over and over and its still stacks. Killing an avatar in 10 sec for me is a broken thing. Not to mention the target run away from everything and get stuck in a door without trying to destroy it.

[i]What's the white wave? [/i]
Its the heroes tentacles + horny + witch, they are white and when i kill the white heart they attack the blue keeper because they cant find a path to my dungeon (thanks to the guard post)

Poesta

2009-03-27 01:17:01 pm

Yarr

I did, @ 3:21. I always put it once its researched
Heh, I searched through the video and I missed it.

There is an unclaimed lvl 10 horned reaper (he is near the torture chamber), usually i claim him with an imp, but this time a fly claimed the reaper for me. Flies tends to explore a lot and get killed.
And the horny at 7:54, is he yours? Because you got one before but the counter is still at 1.

Because when you kill the first avatar, after 50 sec, a bunch of heroes appear and one of those heroes appear where the blue dungeonheart is. The blue keeper kill those heroes fast enough, if the blue keeper is killed, i cant claim his dungeon (no bridges) thus cant lay traps (which requires too much time to be created anyway)and those heroes have lot of life (barbarians and brutes).
Yeah, you posted about this before. Does the second avatar actually appear?

Its overpowered, you can cast it over and over and its still stacks. Killing an avatar in 10 sec for me is a broken thing. Not to mention the target run away from everything and get stuck in a door without trying to destroy it.
Why didn't you place the magic door blocking the land lord a bit more to the west?

Its the heroes tentacles + horny + witch, they are white and when i kill the white heart they attack the blue keeper because they cant find a path to my dungeon (thanks to the guard post)
I wondered why you did that. I guess the height difference is too big? Did you pick up the imp at 4:37 by accident?

[i]I did, @ 3:21. I always put it once its researched[/i]
Heh, I searched through the video and I missed it.

[i]There is an unclaimed lvl 10 horned reaper (he is near the torture chamber), usually i claim him with an imp, but this time a fly claimed the reaper for me. Flies tends to explore a lot and get killed.[/i]
And the horny at 7:54, is he yours? Because you got one before but the counter is still at 1.

[i]Because when you kill the first avatar, after 50 sec, a bunch of heroes appear and one of those heroes appear where the blue dungeonheart is. The blue keeper kill those heroes fast enough, if the blue keeper is killed, i cant claim his dungeon (no bridges) thus cant lay traps (which requires too much time to be created anyway)and those heroes have lot of life (barbarians and brutes).
[/i]Yeah, you posted about this before. Does the second avatar actually appear?

[i]Its overpowered, you can cast it over and over and its still stacks. Killing an avatar in 10 sec for me is a broken thing. Not to mention the target run away from everything and get stuck in a door without trying to destroy it.[/i]
Why didn't you place the magic door blocking the land lord a bit more to the west?

[i]Its the heroes tentacles + horny + witch, they are white and when i kill the white heart they attack the blue keeper because they cant find a path to my dungeon (thanks to the guard post)[/i]
I wondered why you did that. I guess the height difference is too big? Did you pick up the imp at 4:37 by accident?

zoonel

2009-03-27 03:35:55 pm

Go play spacechem !

Quote:

I did, @ 3:21. I always put it once its researched
Heh, I searched through the video and I missed it.

its between 3:19 and 3:21, @3:19 you'll hear "a new spell has been researched" (well thats the translation)

Quote:

And the horny at 7:54, is he yours? Because you got one before but the counter is still at 1.

No, its the good(white) one. He doesnt always go break the avatar door.

Quote:

Does the second avatar actually appear?

yes, but i dont get the question? Tongue

The only time he doesnt appear is if all good creatures are killed fast enough, you can manage to do that for a run but you must choose if you kill or not the blue keeper and how you kill it. Hope he get killed by tentacles, or use possession to rush his heart. If he is alive you must hope he kill the brutes fast, but its tedious ; if he is dead you must quickly claim the path where the heart was and set traps (spells or creatures are too slow to take them down).Either ways, i rate it too difficult to do (for me) and my point was to show my strategy with a decent time.
Sometimes you cant see the avatar but he is still there.

Quote:

Why didn't you place the magic door blocking the land lord a bit more to the west?
Did you pick up the imp at 4:37 by accident?

i'm human (= i'm not perfect) Shocked

I also click on wrong tabs, or simply click on tabs instead of using the 1 2 3 4 5 keyboard keys.
i also tend to forgot to do things.
It was only the second time i tried with the passage trick to block the avatar sooner.
I've the strategy in my head, and know the steps i have to do, but its not (highly) optimized (i.e. i dont have a precise order to do things after i kill the heart, i just know what must be done and what i must pay attention to.... and i forget things like blocking the hatchery path, -_-').
12114 is faster then me to runs levels Cry

but i'msure he will optimize all that Tongue

(or whoever wants to try ^^)

Quote:

Its the heroes tentacles + horny + witch, they are white and when i kill the white heart they attack the blue keeper because they cant find a path to my dungeon (thanks to the guard post)
I wondered why you did that. I guess the height difference is too big?

It take too long to kill them and i dont need experience or tentacles or anything from them. I just need 1 dragon, the horny for research & to break the avatar magic door (in case the white dont do it), and lot of gold and traps (thus trolls).

[quote]I did, @ 3:21. I always put it once its researched
Heh, I searched through the video and I missed it.[/quote]
its between 3:19 and 3:21, @3:19 you'll hear "a new spell has been researched" (well thats the translation)

[quote]And the horny at 7:54, is he yours? Because you got one before but the counter is still at 1.[/quote]
No, its the good(white) one. He doesnt always go break the avatar door.

[quote]Does the second avatar actually appear?[/quote]
yes, but i dont get the question? :P The only time he doesnt appear is if all good creatures are killed fast enough, you can manage to do that for a run but you must choose if you kill or not the blue keeper and how you kill it. Hope he get killed by tentacles, or use possession to rush his heart. If he is alive you must hope he kill the brutes fast, but its tedious ; if he is dead you must quickly claim the path where the heart was and set traps (spells or creatures are too slow to take them down).Either ways, i rate it too difficult to do (for me) and my point was to show my strategy with a decent time.
Sometimes you cant see the avatar but he is still there.

[quote]Why didn't you place the magic door blocking the land lord a bit more to the west?
Did you pick up the imp at 4:37 by accident?[/quote]
i'm human (= i'm not perfect)  :o
I also click on wrong tabs, or simply click on tabs instead of using the 1 2 3 4 5 keyboard keys.
i also tend to forgot to do things.
It was only the second time i tried with the passage trick to block the avatar sooner.
I've the strategy in my head, and know the steps i have to do, but its not (highly) optimized (i.e. i dont have a precise order to do things after i kill the heart, i just know what must be done and what i must pay attention to.... and i forget things like blocking the hatchery path, -_-').
12114 is faster then me to runs levels  :'( but i'msure he will optimize all that  :P (or whoever wants to try ^^)

[quote]Its the heroes tentacles + horny + witch, they are white and when i kill the white heart they attack the blue keeper because they cant find a path to my dungeon (thanks to the guard post)
I wondered why you did that. I guess the height difference is too big? [/quote]
It take too long to kill them and i dont need experience or tentacles or anything from them. I just need 1 dragon, the horny for research & to break the avatar magic door (in case the white dont do it), and lot of gold and traps (thus trolls).

Poesta

2009-03-27 03:50:35 pm

Yarr

Quote:

i'm human (= i'm not perfect) Shocked
I also click on wrong tabs, or simply click on tabs instead of using the 1 2 3 4 5 keyboard keys.
i also tend to forgot to do things.

I'm not accusing you of anything, I thought it was part of your strategy.

I'm trying to play DK on another pc and it doesn't work, even though it's also XP. I've tried using only one core and compatibility settings to no avail. I'm suspecting the installation doesn't run correctly. Could you check the size of your game directory on your hard disk? Mine's around 60 MB.

zoonel

2009-03-27 04:11:51 pm

Go play spacechem !

i know, i wanted to show that there is room for improvement Smiley

I cant respond to the directory size cause i've dk gold (deeper dungeons included) and i've followed the editor installation to play without cd:
http://keeper.lubie.org/dk1_docs/dk_editor_hdinst.htm#mminst_hdcopy
(i also have some mapviewer programs in there)

Poesta

2009-03-27 05:36:35 pm

Yarr

I can play in DOSBox without sound and a bit laggy, and in d3d I can get into the menu with sound. Yaaay. I'll try something else.

Kabuto

2009-03-27 06:13:35 pm

I've seldomly heard of problems relating keeper95.exe under Windows XP. Install it, start it and it works. The only problem I've ever encountered were outdated graphics drivers which chose a refresh rate the monitor couldn't handle.

To check for CD errors simply try to copy all files from your game CD to your hard drive. If that works there are no CD errors.

Do you get any error messages when trying to start Dungeon Keeper?

zoonel

2009-03-27 06:31:28 pm

Go play spacechem !

did you install it in a folder with a windows 9x compatible name ? (less then 8 character and no spaces, i.e. D:\DK1 )

Poesta

2009-03-28 05:03:08 am

Yarr

Quote from zoonel:

did you install it in a folder with a windows 9x compatible name ? (less then 8 character and no spaces, i.e. D:\DK1 )

I just did and it works! Grin

It even has music. On my other pc it worked with a long directory name ('Dungeon Keeper') but I didn't have music, so maybe the directory name will fix that also. Thanks!

Kabuto

2009-03-28 05:19:01 am

Dungeon Keeper plays its music via the "CD audio" mode, which only works correctly if you've connected the audio out of your CD drive to your sound card and the CD audio volume slider in windows isn't muted.

Poesta

2009-03-28 05:24:30 am

Yarr

You're right about the cd audio. When I switched it off the music stopped. I'll see tomorrow if I can get it to work on the other pc. Can you get the music to work using a mounted image? I made an image because I only have one cd, me and my brother can do multiplayer now.

zoonel

2009-03-28 08:36:30 am

Go play spacechem !

@Poesta :
can you verify if the registry key is set to 1 for the computer who doesnt play dk with long names?:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\FileSystem
NtfsDisable8dot3NameCreation

And i dont think you'll get musicwith an mounted image Sad

Poesta

2009-03-28 09:20:28 am

Yarr

It's enabled (1).

Kabuto

2009-03-28 04:26:49 pm

Well, you could simply rip the CD audio off the game CD and play it in an mp3 player software in an endless loop while playing the game ;-)

Poesta

2009-03-29 04:42:39 am

Yarr

In level 7 12114 disables the lightning traps using only one imp for each trap. How does that work?

zoonel

2009-03-29 07:36:39 am

Go play spacechem !

Quote from Poesta:

In level 7 12114 disables the lightning traps using only one imp for each trap. How does that work?

2 imps, the first is sacrificed to launch the trap then the second claim the tile during the trap cooldown. For lighting traps, drop the second imp when the second electricity sound stop.

Poesta

2009-03-29 08:56:54 am

Yarr

I see. When the tile is claimed the trap disappears I assume?

Kabuto

2009-03-29 10:17:53 am

Quote from Poesta:

I see. When the tile is claimed the trap disappears I assume?

Yes.

Poesta

Edit history:

Poesta: 2009-03-31 01:45:05 pm

2009-03-31 01:15:26 pm

Yarr

I'm at my other pc again. I tried to figure out how to get the music to work but still no success. This is what I know:

- The music works normally on my brother's pc, his cd drive is connected to the sound card. However, when I disconnected the CD drive from the sound card the music didn't stop, even after rebooting.
- If the cd is ejected during play the music stops.
- While playing on his pc using an image of the same cd no music is heard.
- I've tried a shorter directory name on my own computer and it didn't work.
- I've tried setting ntfsdisable8dot3namecreation to 1 (was 0), rebooting and reinstalling but it didn't work.
- I've tried the unpatched version, the patched version and the ipx fix-patched version and it didn't make any difference. The d3d version doesn't work. If it did, I wouldn't play it anyway because it's ugly.
- While playing from a different cd drive the music doesn't work either.

The cd audio is not muted. I'm stumped. My brother and I have different sound cards, maybe that's the issue. But I don't understand why a short directory name worked at the other pc and not mine. Cry

Edit: I updated my audio drivers as it's probably 6 years ago it was updated for the last time, but it still doesn't work. Now I think about drivers, I've installed the kX drivers onto my brothers pc some time ago because I couldn't get decent drivers from Creative anywhere, could that be the solution?

I'm at my other pc again. I tried to figure out how to get the music to work but still no success. This is what I know:

- The music works normally on my brother's pc, his cd drive is connected to the sound card. However, when I disconnected the CD drive from the sound card the music didn't stop, even after rebooting.
- If the cd is ejected during play the music stops.
- While playing on his pc using an image of the same cd no music is heard.
- I've tried a shorter directory name on my own computer and it didn't work.
- I've tried setting ntfsdisable8dot3namecreation to 1 (was 0), rebooting and reinstalling but it didn't work.
- I've tried the unpatched version, the patched version and the ipx fix-patched version and it didn't make any difference. The d3d version doesn't work. If it did, I wouldn't play it anyway because it's ugly.
- While playing from a different cd drive the music doesn't work either.

The cd audio is not muted. I'm stumped. My brother and I have different sound cards, maybe that's the issue. But I don't understand why a short directory name worked at the other pc and not mine. :'(

Edit: I updated my audio drivers as it's probably 6 years ago it was updated for the last time, but it still doesn't work. Now I think about drivers, I've installed the [url=http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/]kX drivers[/url] onto my brothers pc some time ago because I couldn't get decent drivers from Creative anywhere, could that be the solution?

zoonel

2009-03-31 03:49:14 pm

Go play spacechem !

Quote:

I've tried setting ntfsdisable8dot3namecreation to 1 (was 0),

Some informatin about this registry entry, in some xp tweaks they recommend to set it to 1 (default is 0) so xp doesnt generate additionnal dos names for each file. It is supposed to boost file handling, however this may cause problems for applications who needs those names compatibility to work. Obviously old applications are the one for which this tweak cause problems. So it is no recommended, because it can lead to some problems hard to detect.
If it was 0, let it be 0.

Did you try a music cd, does it play fine?
Mounted image wont play the sound, its normal i guess.

I dont think the driver is the cause, especially if you didnt had sound problem before. For me it sounds more like a wrong connection between cd drive and motherboard/sound card like said, but if you say it worked even with no connections -_-' Well i've no idea.

Ver Greeneyes

2009-03-31 04:38:08 pm

You shouldn't need the cable on err.. well Windows XP and up I'm sure about, maybe Windows 2k too. It's all done digitally. I don't know how to help you though - I recently fixed a sound problem (Optical In was recording but not playing) on accident by reinstalling my system - but that would be a bit drastic. This does suggest it was a driver issue in my case though, so the ks drivers may be worth a shot. Perhaps uninstalling the old driver first and running Driver Sweeper before updating might help. (it's a bit of a hassle, but it sounds like you're already trying lots of things)

Kabuto

2009-04-01 02:58:39 am

AFAIK it depends on the particular application whether CD audio is:
a) played directly by the CD drive and then sent over the audio cable or
b) extracted digitally and transmitted to the application which then plays it

Method b) is used by all newer media players as it's the only method that works reliably with modern hardware. But when Dungeon Keeper was programmed CD audio extraction which is needed for b) wasn't reliable and/or did use too much CPU so it was programmed to use method a). And I don't think drivers can do much about this. Ripping the audio and then playing it in the background while playing Dungeon Keeper should be the easiest solution if everything else fails.

Poesta

Edit history:

Poesta: 2009-04-01 01:39:36 pm

2009-04-01 10:01:53 am

Yarr

Quote from Kabuto:

AFAIK it depends on the particular application whether CD audio is:
a) played directly by the CD drive and then sent over the audio cable or
b) extracted digitally and transmitted to the application which then plays it

Method b) is used by all newer media players as it's the only method that works reliably with modern hardware. But when Dungeon Keeper was programmed CD audio extraction which is needed for b) wasn't reliable and/or did use too much CPU so it was programmed to use method a). And I don't think drivers can do much about this. Ripping the audio and then playing it in the background while playing Dungeon Keeper should be the easiest solution if everything else fails.

Then why does it play without the audio cable on my brother's pc? This isn't a repackaged version or something. The newest files on the cd were modified on February 1998.

I got the d3d version to work in compatibility mode, but no music either.

Edit: onboard soundcard doesn't work either.

Edit: tried the kX driver. Nope. I give up.

[quote="Kabuto"]
AFAIK it depends on the particular application whether CD audio is:
a) played directly by the CD drive and then sent over the audio cable or
b) extracted digitally and transmitted to the application which then plays it

Method b) is used by all newer media players as it's the only method that works reliably with modern hardware. But when Dungeon Keeper was programmed CD audio extraction which is needed for b) wasn't reliable and/or did use too much CPU so it was programmed to use method a). And I don't think drivers can do much about this. Ripping the audio and then playing it in the background while playing Dungeon Keeper should be the easiest solution if everything else fails.
[/quote]

Then why does it play without the audio cable on my brother's pc? This isn't a repackaged version or something. The newest files on the cd were modified on February 1998.

I got the d3d version to work in compatibility mode, but no music either.

Edit: onboard soundcard doesn't work either.

Edit: tried the kX driver. Nope. I give up.