My steam library says that it's beta, but in-game it says "1.3.2 stable". I think you're correct, that there isn't a current beta version. I think mine is still tagged as beta from when I had the beta installed, and for some reason the title didn't change. It might if I reinstall, but it's no big deal.
SDA Forum
Sorry for the double post, but I thought I'd share some things I've found in the past few days.
In Nuclear Winter, map 5 (The Backdoor), I found a way to skip opening the door, using a method not unlike the E1M2 yellow key skip posted earlier. I've only ever been able to pull it off with steroids, though, otherwise the door crushes me. Unfortunately, the only way to get steroids in that level is a random drop off a christmas tree a little later in the level. Perhaps its possible with SR50, but I've never found a good control setup for it. Any suggestions?
I've also been playing around a bit with Duke Caribbean, as well. In map 3 (Mr. Splashy's), I found a way to skip opening the gate leading to the red key, by once again jumping under it. This one might also require steroids (or "hot sauce" in Caribbean), but there's some earlier in the map. Just turn on the drink machine in the concession stand across from the blue key area. Another interesting thing in that map: in the mini-duke section near the end, the tunnel appears to be designed to keep the player from using the crouch jump glitch to get inside while still normal-sized. Perhaps Sunstorm knew about it?
Haven't found much in Map 4 (The Wavemistress) yet. It's possible to ledge clip off the boat in the beginning to get up onto the cruise ship a little faster. There also appears to be another recent change to the map: I seem to remember it was once possible to jump off the ship, but now, moving away from the ship results in instant death, even before you hit the water below.
Not all changes are bad, though: in map 7 (The Alien Remains), there's one that makes a huge skip possible. I've known for a while now that ledge clipping in the room with the keys would put you near the door to the final boss. However, I'm pretty sure that there used to be a wall in front of it that prevented you from going in until both keys had been used (another glitch Sunstorm knew about?). However, that wall is no longer there as of 1.3.2, so as long as you can get the speed to do the ledge clip, you can skip just about the entire level. No idea where to get steroids in that level, I'll have to look into it some more.
EDIT: found a better way to do the map 7 clip: ledge clip into the pipe closest to the camera screen in the same room. no roids/sr50 needed.
In Nuclear Winter, map 5 (The Backdoor), I found a way to skip opening the door, using a method not unlike the E1M2 yellow key skip posted earlier. I've only ever been able to pull it off with steroids, though, otherwise the door crushes me. Unfortunately, the only way to get steroids in that level is a random drop off a christmas tree a little later in the level. Perhaps its possible with SR50, but I've never found a good control setup for it. Any suggestions?
I've also been playing around a bit with Duke Caribbean, as well. In map 3 (Mr. Splashy's), I found a way to skip opening the gate leading to the red key, by once again jumping under it. This one might also require steroids (or "hot sauce" in Caribbean), but there's some earlier in the map. Just turn on the drink machine in the concession stand across from the blue key area. Another interesting thing in that map: in the mini-duke section near the end, the tunnel appears to be designed to keep the player from using the crouch jump glitch to get inside while still normal-sized. Perhaps Sunstorm knew about it?
Haven't found much in Map 4 (The Wavemistress) yet. It's possible to ledge clip off the boat in the beginning to get up onto the cruise ship a little faster. There also appears to be another recent change to the map: I seem to remember it was once possible to jump off the ship, but now, moving away from the ship results in instant death, even before you hit the water below.
Not all changes are bad, though: in map 7 (The Alien Remains), there's one that makes a huge skip possible. I've known for a while now that ledge clipping in the room with the keys would put you near the door to the final boss. However, I'm pretty sure that there used to be a wall in front of it that prevented you from going in until both keys had been used (another glitch Sunstorm knew about?). However, that wall is no longer there as of 1.3.2, so as long as you can get the speed to do the ledge clip, you can skip just about the entire level. No idea where to get steroids in that level, I'll have to look into it some more.
EDIT: found a better way to do the map 7 clip: ledge clip into the pipe closest to the camera screen in the same room. no roids/sr50 needed.
Very cool, I'm glad to hear that some of the changes are beneficial.
I just recently received my copies of the original expansions in the mail; I've set them all up now and I immediately see some of the differences simply in playing them... The change to the Nuclear Winter L4 window grate collision for instance is a huge pain (I'm guessing this is one of the changes you were talking about earlier? I fear the other is probably the similar grate to the Red Key area?).
Very cool, that's helpful!
I'm going to take some more time and open up the .GRP files for Nuclear Winter and Caribbean and compare the contents more in-depth... In the add-ons folder of Megaton, it looks like they're overriding the expansion .GRP's maps with some new loose map files. (otherwise, Megaton's Nuclear Winter .GRP and .CON are identical to the original expansion. The Caribbean VACATION.GRP is different and has a different size)
Ah, that's awesome, that would be an amazing skip! I'm super excited to try this one out and see if it is consistent with SR-50.
For controls, I have a 5-button mouse which allows for a comfortable setup for Megaton strafing.
I set mouse right-click to Jump, mouse button 4 (thumb button on the side) to turn left, and mouse button 5 (also on the side) to turn right.
When I'm using SR-50, this lets me hold down alt with my left-hand thumb, and then with my right-hand I hold either of the mouse thumb buttons to perform the double strafing.
I dunno if these input notes are helpful -- hopefully it'll be somewhat useful in finding your preferred SR-50 setup!
Ah, this sounds like something NUKEMDAVE had mentioned changing in his map patches. If I'm remembering correctly, I think there was a case in multiplayer coop where players would get stuck behind that wall, so he removed it.
All of these sound like really awesome skips, I'm going to have to check them all out!
That's interesting... There's a couple of other areas like that, particularly in the The Birth episode...
It may be that they knew about it. In the source code for Duke3D, someone at 3DRealms left the note "Fix Super Duck". It could be referring to this, or else maybe the small ledge push (which seems to almost have a demonstration in the top of the map jetpack secret of E1L1)? I think this note was added as they were working on V1.4: among these source code notes, there's also another one which says "1. fix pipebomb bug" probably referring to the 1.3D pipebomb bug which they mostly fixed in 1.4.
Thanks for posting all of these findings!
On another note, I'm going to add a page to the Knowledge Base wiki detailing how to install both the Plutonium Pak and the V1.5 patches in DOSBox. It turns out it's a bit finicky; it took me a while to get everything set up properly.
As an additional side note: while checking for differences, I found that the GOG Atomic Edition release DUKE3D.EXE contains a very small 1 byte patch to remove the game's CD-ROM insertion check (they do this rather than distribute a large CD-ROM image). Not super interesting, but I thought I ought to note that somewhere.
Edit: Also, no worries about posting twice back-to-back! I appreciate getting the notification, especially for large updates like that! (haha I just wish I could have responded faster!)
I just recently received my copies of the original expansions in the mail; I've set them all up now and I immediately see some of the differences simply in playing them... The change to the Nuclear Winter L4 window grate collision for instance is a huge pain (I'm guessing this is one of the changes you were talking about earlier? I fear the other is probably the similar grate to the Red Key area?).
Quote from DrJordo:
My steam library says that it's beta, but in-game it says "1.3.2 stable". I think you're correct, that there isn't a current beta version.
Very cool, that's helpful!
Quote from DrJordo:
In Nuclear Winter, map 5 (The Backdoor), I found a way to skip opening the door, using a method not unlike the E1M2 yellow key skip posted earlier. I've only ever been able to pull it off with steroids, though, otherwise the door crushes me. Unfortunately, the only way to get steroids in that level is a random drop off a christmas tree a little later in the level. Perhaps its possible with SR50, but I've never found a good control setup for it. Any suggestions?
Ah, that's awesome, that would be an amazing skip!
For controls, I have a 5-button mouse which allows for a comfortable setup for Megaton strafing.
I set mouse right-click to Jump, mouse button 4 (thumb button on the side) to turn left, and mouse button 5 (also on the side) to turn right.
When I'm using SR-50, this lets me hold down alt with my left-hand thumb, and then with my right-hand I hold either of the mouse thumb buttons to perform the double strafing.
I dunno if these input notes are helpful -- hopefully it'll be somewhat useful in finding your preferred SR-50 setup!
Quote from DrJordo:
Not all changes are bad, though: in map 7 (The Alien Remains), there's one that makes a huge skip possible. I've known for a while now that ledge clipping in the room with the keys would put you near the door to the final boss. However, I'm pretty sure that there used to be a wall in front of it that prevented you from going in until both keys had been used (another glitch Sunstorm knew about?). However, that wall is no longer there as of 1.3.2, so as long as you can get the speed to do the ledge clip, you can skip just about the entire level.
Ah, this sounds like something NUKEMDAVE had mentioned changing in his map patches. If I'm remembering correctly, I think there was a case in multiplayer coop where players would get stuck behind that wall, so he removed it.
All of these sound like really awesome skips, I'm going to have to check them all out!
Quote from DrJordo:
Another interesting thing in that map: in the mini-duke section near the end, the tunnel appears to be designed to keep the player from using the crouch jump glitch to get inside while still normal-sized. Perhaps Sunstorm knew about it?
That's interesting... There's a couple of other areas like that, particularly in the The Birth episode...
It may be that they knew about it. In the source code for Duke3D, someone at 3DRealms left the note "Fix Super Duck". It could be referring to this, or else maybe the small ledge push (which seems to almost have a demonstration in the top of the map jetpack secret of E1L1)? I think this note was added as they were working on V1.4: among these source code notes, there's also another one which says "1. fix pipebomb bug" probably referring to the 1.3D pipebomb bug which they mostly fixed in 1.4.
Thanks for posting all of these findings!
On another note, I'm going to add a page to the Knowledge Base wiki detailing how to install both the Plutonium Pak and the V1.5 patches in DOSBox. It turns out it's a bit finicky; it took me a while to get everything set up properly.
As an additional side note: while checking for differences, I found that the GOG Atomic Edition release DUKE3D.EXE contains a very small 1 byte patch to remove the game's CD-ROM insertion check (they do this rather than distribute a large CD-ROM image). Not super interesting, but I thought I ought to note that somewhere.
Edit: Also, no worries about posting twice back-to-back!
Quote:
I just recently received my copies of the original expansions in the mail; I've set them all up now and I immediately see some of the differences simply in playing them... The change to the Nuclear Winter L4 window grate collision for instance is a huge pain (I'm guessing this is one of the changes you were talking about earlier? I fear the other is probably the similar grate to the Red Key area?).
There are two changes in that level that mess with my current route: first, in the office that's up some ramps from the room with the globe, it was possible to go through the windows, if you could shoot them out (usually only possible with explosives, or a well-angled shot with bullets). Now, you can shoot them out from anywhere, with anything, but you can't go through them. The second, as you feared, is the grate that leads to the area past the red key door. Before, you could get under that grate by crouching, but now, you can't even get on the ledge with it.
Quote:
For controls, I have a 5-button mouse which allows for a comfortable setup for Megaton strafing.
I set mouse right-click to Jump, mouse button 4 (thumb button on the side) to turn left, and mouse button 5 (also on the side) to turn right.
When I'm using SR-50, this lets me hold down alt with my left-hand thumb, and then with my right-hand I hold either of the mouse thumb buttons to perform the double strafing.
I dunno if these input notes are helpful -- hopefully it'll be somewhat useful in finding your preferred SR-50 setup!
I set mouse right-click to Jump, mouse button 4 (thumb button on the side) to turn left, and mouse button 5 (also on the side) to turn right.
When I'm using SR-50, this lets me hold down alt with my left-hand thumb, and then with my right-hand I hold either of the mouse thumb buttons to perform the double strafing.
I dunno if these input notes are helpful -- hopefully it'll be somewhat useful in finding your preferred SR-50 setup!
That sounds great, only problem is, my mouse is only a standard 3-button. I kinda need a new one though, I'll see if I can get a 5-button some time. Thanks for the suggestion!
Kinda new here and I wanted to ask a few questions about some stuff and maybe get some advice on things I could be doing better or things I shouldn't be doing at all.
I'm working on memorizing the other 2 episode routes, but I have L.A. Meltdown pretty good now (I think I'm using some old strats and a lot of safe strats right now; I'm too cautious D:).
Current PB is 3:32.32 for L.A. Meltdown, and I'm rather certain I can get sub 3 minutes or near it (especially if I can do these skips a bit more reliably and not mess up).
I figured timing myself episode by episode until I feel comfortable attempting to do all 3 would be best.
As for questions: when is the proper time to start the timer and end the timer for a straight-through run of all 3 episodes? Is that considered Any% RTA? Are there any reliable ways to do any of the skips I'm attempting?
Is there also a way to better format the timer? I'm using Llanfair (cross-OS compatibility, I stream on Windows, but I'm usually on Linux)
I'm working on memorizing the other 2 episode routes, but I have L.A. Meltdown pretty good now (I think I'm using some old strats and a lot of safe strats right now; I'm too cautious D:).
Current PB is 3:32.32 for L.A. Meltdown, and I'm rather certain I can get sub 3 minutes or near it (especially if I can do these skips a bit more reliably and not mess up).
I figured timing myself episode by episode until I feel comfortable attempting to do all 3 would be best.
As for questions: when is the proper time to start the timer and end the timer for a straight-through run of all 3 episodes? Is that considered Any% RTA? Are there any reliable ways to do any of the skips I'm attempting?
Is there also a way to better format the timer? I'm using Llanfair (cross-OS compatibility, I stream on Windows, but I'm usually on Linux)
Very cool, your runs are looking great! Nice work!
Yep, that is Any% RTA Any% RTA real-time timing begins right as you start your first episode (hit enter at the difficulty selection) and ends when you reach the cutscene at the end of your final episode. You can perform the episodes in any order. There are different categories for different expansions/episodes: In addition to the first three episodes, RTA runs can include/exclude The Birth expansion episode, or run the third-party expansion episodes. There's also similar categories for individual episode runs.
Timing can be performed in multiple ways, but I'm not actually certain how to perform the additional methods of timing for RTA... The other methods are calculated after the run is recorded, by looking at the footage. I'll find out how these other timing methods work first before speculating. (Sorry! I wish I knew them better!)
Yep! You'll become more consistent with the skips over time, but there are also some setups that will make the skips more reliable. Some are personal preference though, you'll find what works best for you through experimentation.
This is a bit of a broad question... Here are some small notes that I hope are helpful (you may already know them though; if that's true, just discard 'em
):
You can perform most small ledge pushes (such as in 1-1, the small ledge push that clips you to the jetpack at the top of the level) without having to jump into the air (so long as you are already on the ledge). Instead, while holding down the movement buttons in the direction you wish to clip (forcing yourself against the wall), you can ram jump while still crouching, causing Duke to bob up and down and usually immediately clip.
For 1-4, I find the landing crouch jump to get into the shrink-ray tunnel from the switch room is the most consistent by approaching it from a slight angle (not straight on). I usually move closer to the switch as I use it, and then move directly back to the tunnel, jumping to hit my head into the front of the yellow bar above the tunnel, ramming jump as I crouch into the landing and slide into the tunnel.
This video demonstrates what I mean with the angle (Note: you could also perform it from the right side of the tunnel [near the health], if you prefer):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOgic1_2wJM&t=20s
Finally, there are some backup strats that you can use to avoid having to reset. For instance, in 1-1, if you fall off the platforms before getting a jetpack and while having steroids, you can clip using the doors to the theatre directly up to the jetpack at the top of the level.
ToxicBarrel (Gargoyle) performs it here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOqmldREmKc&t=24s
To perform it, put yourself in the corner closest to the jetpack, make sure you are right against the two walls (exactly in the corner), hold right strafe while facing the door, use your steroids if you haven't already, and close the door. You can also be holding the backpedal key while doing this, it doesn't affect the clip (I prefer to hold it and move diagonally into the corner; it feels smoother to me).
Haha I feel a bit weird putting these kinds of notes in a post, it feels a bit impersonal... If you'd like, feel free to add me on Steam if talking more directly (or multiplayer games) would be helpful.
Keep up the great work!
P.S. I'm not sure about Llanfair setup; I've never used it before, sorry
If you're asking regarding a technical usage issue, there's probably a thread or two around talking about customization... if you can't find an existing thread that resolves your problem, you could create a new thread in the technical support forum asking specifically about what you're having trouble with. Someone will probably be able to answer it there super quickly
Quote from TheBlackParrot:
when is the proper time to start the timer and end the timer for a straight-through run of all 3 episodes? Is that considered Any% RTA?
Yep, that is Any% RTA
Timing can be performed in multiple ways, but I'm not actually certain how to perform the additional methods of timing for RTA... The other methods are calculated after the run is recorded, by looking at the footage. I'll find out how these other timing methods work first before speculating. (Sorry! I wish I knew them better!)
Quote from TheBlackParrot:
Are there any reliable ways to do any of the skips I'm attempting?
Yep!
This is a bit of a broad question... Here are some small notes that I hope are helpful (you may already know them though; if that's true, just discard 'em
You can perform most small ledge pushes (such as in 1-1, the small ledge push that clips you to the jetpack at the top of the level) without having to jump into the air (so long as you are already on the ledge). Instead, while holding down the movement buttons in the direction you wish to clip (forcing yourself against the wall), you can ram jump while still crouching, causing Duke to bob up and down and usually immediately clip.
For 1-4, I find the landing crouch jump to get into the shrink-ray tunnel from the switch room is the most consistent by approaching it from a slight angle (not straight on). I usually move closer to the switch as I use it, and then move directly back to the tunnel, jumping to hit my head into the front of the yellow bar above the tunnel, ramming jump as I crouch into the landing and slide into the tunnel.
This video demonstrates what I mean with the angle (Note: you could also perform it from the right side of the tunnel [near the health], if you prefer):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOgic1_2wJM&t=20s
Finally, there are some backup strats that you can use to avoid having to reset. For instance, in 1-1, if you fall off the platforms before getting a jetpack and while having steroids, you can clip using the doors to the theatre directly up to the jetpack at the top of the level.
ToxicBarrel (Gargoyle) performs it here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOqmldREmKc&t=24s
To perform it, put yourself in the corner closest to the jetpack, make sure you are right against the two walls (exactly in the corner), hold right strafe while facing the door, use your steroids if you haven't already, and close the door. You can also be holding the backpedal key while doing this, it doesn't affect the clip (I prefer to hold it and move diagonally into the corner; it feels smoother to me).
Haha I feel a bit weird putting these kinds of notes in a post, it feels a bit impersonal... If you'd like, feel free to add me on Steam if talking more directly (or multiplayer games) would be helpful.
Keep up the great work!
P.S. I'm not sure about Llanfair setup; I've never used it before, sorry
may as well post my run the mistakes are obvious but i'm happy with it (if only because its 13 minutes on the dot)
i think ive got all the tricks worked out and i dont think this has been mentioned in the thread but the battlelords hitbox for the shrink gun shot in fusion station is its foot or leg i think it took me a while to work that out
i think ive got all the tricks worked out and i dont think this has been mentioned in the thread but the battlelords hitbox for the shrink gun shot in fusion station is its foot or leg i think it took me a while to work that out
Couple of quick notes on that run:
You still go slightly out of your way to pick up unnecessary stuff in a couple of places, like the Atomic Health in e1m1 (if you are concerned about your health, just squish yourself on the ledge at the exit in the level to heal up), e2l7 and 3l6, or the RPG ammo in e2l2 (never used). Not really big mistakes, but they do add up to seconds lost over time. try to think about what resources are actually used in your route and how your health progresses throughout the run. Often times you can survive quite well just on the health pickups that are right in your path, the damage you take in this run is fairly consistent.
I'm not a fan of the RPG approach to e2l8, it is fairly slow and dangerous to boot because you have to take care of all potentially blocking enemies from afar. I found the shrinker to be a much more reliable tool for squeezing past those that get in your path, especially in combination with the steroids. Not a big fan of the way you use them in this level, I haven't noticed any difference in survivability for the force field on steroids, and the part afterwards doesn't make that good use of the higher speed cap as well. This is probably your weakest level in this run, imo.
The shrinker acts like an explosive weapon in this game. On impact, it shrinks all enemies that are within a specifically sized ball of the impact spot. As enemies are sprites in this game, their collision point is right on the floor, in the center of the sprite image. As the Battlelord is such a gigantic sprite, shooting them in the face with a shrink ray means that their collision spot is outside the blast radius. That's why they also take more damage if you RPG them in the groin. The only enemies where this seems to not be the case is the bosses, most notably the first one, that seem to take more explosive damage when shot in the face. I have no good explanation for this behaviour.
You still go slightly out of your way to pick up unnecessary stuff in a couple of places, like the Atomic Health in e1m1 (if you are concerned about your health, just squish yourself on the ledge at the exit in the level to heal up), e2l7 and 3l6, or the RPG ammo in e2l2 (never used). Not really big mistakes, but they do add up to seconds lost over time. try to think about what resources are actually used in your route and how your health progresses throughout the run. Often times you can survive quite well just on the health pickups that are right in your path, the damage you take in this run is fairly consistent.
I'm not a fan of the RPG approach to e2l8, it is fairly slow and dangerous to boot because you have to take care of all potentially blocking enemies from afar. I found the shrinker to be a much more reliable tool for squeezing past those that get in your path, especially in combination with the steroids. Not a big fan of the way you use them in this level, I haven't noticed any difference in survivability for the force field on steroids, and the part afterwards doesn't make that good use of the higher speed cap as well. This is probably your weakest level in this run, imo.
The shrinker acts like an explosive weapon in this game. On impact, it shrinks all enemies that are within a specifically sized ball of the impact spot. As enemies are sprites in this game, their collision point is right on the floor, in the center of the sprite image. As the Battlelord is such a gigantic sprite, shooting them in the face with a shrink ray means that their collision spot is outside the blast radius. That's why they also take more damage if you RPG them in the groin. The only enemies where this seems to not be the case is the bosses, most notably the first one, that seem to take more explosive damage when shot in the face. I have no good explanation for this behaviour.
Nice! Awesome run, youtl!
Haha yeah, the effective area for shrinking the mini battlelord can be a bit annoying (particularly in the older versions of the game where you couldn't disable auto-aim ). Thanks, that's a good note; it really ought to be on the wiki guide (I'll add it now Edit: it's added now and available here)
Very nice execution! Looking forward to seeing more of your runs!
Haha yeah, the effective area for shrinking the mini battlelord can be a bit annoying (particularly in the older versions of the game where you couldn't disable auto-aim
Very nice execution!
It's been awhile, happy to see some more people getting into this game, it's provided me with many hours of entertainment and heartbreak. Anyway, I realized while watching your guys' runs (I'm so sorry BlackParrot, I felt so bad watching that) that there is technically a newer route and I don't think anyone has done a video of. It makes E1L1 and E1L4 harder, and I haven't really been able to save more than 7 or 8 seconds, so do with it what you will.
I got it!
Sub 11 minutes is definitely possible if everything is executed perfectly, my sum of best segments right now is 10:56.06. I'm gonna keep working on it because I made a lot of mistakes in that run that could've been easily avoided.
I find the skip in E2L2 to be more consistent if you go at it from the side (I figured out height doesn't exactly matter too much?), and move forward+left and aiming upwards a slight bit.
The results/bonus skip has a larger window to get if you don't limit your FPS. Loading also has a correlation with FPS as well.
Has 100% been routed before? I want to try going for that next.
EDIT: The audio clip for the level skip in E1L2 doesn't play, I've tried everything to get it playing again but nothing works.
Very nicely done, wicked run! At this rate, I think you'll cut the 11m mark in no time
The E2L2 acute corner glide can be performed without needing to be at any particular height, and can also be performed without the jetpack (depending on personal preference/item availability). That's an interesting setup... That makes sense that the game fps would affect the clip; a higher fps should allow for more discrete angles for Duke's rotation (especially using the mouse).
I should note while I'm thinking about it that the game's V-Sync option causes extreme input lag (much more so than manually setting the frame rate cap to a lower value).
Max% (max kills, all secrets) hasn't been routed for most levels yet, but 100s (all secrets) has been routed to a much greater extent. It would be awesome to get these categories fully routed and run for Megaton (or adapted to RTA in addition to IL). If you're looking for some references to study these categories, you could check out:
XBOX360 Duke 100s Leaderboard dmos (huge thanks to King Mamba 48 for recording these and uploading them to youtube )
Fernito's 100s runs
grzdeniek's E1L1 max% run
grzdeniek's E1L1 is listed in the Max% table above, along with a full description of the Max% IL rules.
Max% is a little bit more difficult to route, as the end tally won't tell you the maximum number of kills on a level (it'll only say the number of monsters left that had spawned by the time you hit the exit). Additionally, there is a glitch with some monstersthat were removed from the game
The E1L2 audio clip won't play if Duke Talk is off -- I dunno if you've tried turning it on again, or if the setting is glitched? If the setting is stuck, you could manually restore the configuration to fix this.
The E2L2 acute corner glide can be performed without needing to be at any particular height, and can also be performed without the jetpack (depending on personal preference/item availability). That's an interesting setup... That makes sense that the game fps would affect the clip; a higher fps should allow for more discrete angles for Duke's rotation (especially using the mouse).
I should note while I'm thinking about it that the game's V-Sync option causes extreme input lag (much more so than manually setting the frame rate cap to a lower value).
Max% (max kills, all secrets) hasn't been routed for most levels yet, but 100s (all secrets) has been routed to a much greater extent. It would be awesome to get these categories fully routed and run for Megaton (or adapted to RTA in addition to IL). If you're looking for some references to study these categories, you could check out:
XBOX360 Duke 100s Leaderboard dmos (huge thanks to King Mamba 48 for recording these and uploading them to youtube
Fernito's 100s runs
grzdeniek's E1L1 max% run
grzdeniek's E1L1 is listed in the Max% table above, along with a full description of the Max% IL rules.
Max% is a little bit more difficult to route, as the end tally won't tell you the maximum number of kills on a level (it'll only say the number of monsters left that had spawned by the time you hit the exit). Additionally, there is a glitch with some monsters
The E1L2 audio clip won't play if Duke Talk is off -- I dunno if you've tried turning it on again, or if the setting is glitched? If the setting is stuck, you could manually restore the configuration to fix this.
I think I'll try out 100% at a later time.
I'm currently routing an RTA glitchless Any% route if that could be a different subcategory. I can add the Any% and glitchless Any% routes to the knowledge base if you want, seeing as though the RTA page is non-existant
I have a sloppy run of 26:13.52, but I'm just going to re-run it tomorrow. I blanked out hard on Hotel Hell and that added about 2 minutes to the time. D:
It's quite a bit harder than I thought it would be too, a loooot more enemy management comes into play. I like it more though, it's pretty fun.
The Duke Talk setting may have been glitched from a save. I went and turned it on, loaded a Red Light District save closer to the finish, and it still didn't play. But I went and did it over again (after double-checking Duke Talk was on) without loading, and it played. I suppose there's some bug in saving/loading that loads the settings from the loaded save file.
I'll just deal with it not playing though since that adds a couple of seconds between episodes.
EDIT: Should mention, while I was routing glitchless Any%, getting the jetpack in E3L1 and using it in E3L2 rather than going up the elevator saves a couple of seconds.
I'm currently routing an RTA glitchless Any% route if that could be a different subcategory. I can add the Any% and glitchless Any% routes to the knowledge base if you want, seeing as though the RTA page is non-existant
I have a sloppy run of 26:13.52, but I'm just going to re-run it tomorrow. I blanked out hard on Hotel Hell and that added about 2 minutes to the time. D:
It's quite a bit harder than I thought it would be too, a loooot more enemy management comes into play. I like it more though, it's pretty fun.
The Duke Talk setting may have been glitched from a save. I went and turned it on, loaded a Red Light District save closer to the finish, and it still didn't play. But I went and did it over again (after double-checking Duke Talk was on) without loading, and it played. I suppose there's some bug in saving/loading that loads the settings from the loaded save file.
I'll just deal with it not playing though since that adds a couple of seconds between episodes.
EDIT: Should mention, while I was routing glitchless Any%, getting the jetpack in E3L1 and using it in E3L2 rather than going up the elevator saves a couple of seconds.
Quote from TheBlackParrot:
I think I'll try out 100% at a later time.
Cool, sounds good
Quote from TheBlackParrot:
I'm currently routing an RTA glitchless Any% route if that could be a different subcategory. I can add the Any% and glitchless Any% routes to the knowledge base if you want, seeing as though the RTA page is non-existant
Thanks for starting up the page and writing up the Any% glitchless route! Great work, I really appreciate it!
Any% Glitchless looks really interesting; your latest pb run was a lot of fun to watch.
Quote from TheBlackParrot:
The Duke Talk setting may have been glitched from a save. I went and turned it on, loaded a Red Light District save closer to the finish, and it still didn't play. But I went and did it over again (after double-checking Duke Talk was on) without loading, and it played. I suppose there's some bug in saving/loading that loads the settings from the loaded save file.
I'll just deal with it not playing though since that adds a couple of seconds between episodes.
I'll just deal with it not playing though since that adds a couple of seconds between episodes.
Ah, interesting -- that's good to know. Glad you were able to fix it and find out what was happening!
Quote from TheBlackParrot:
EDIT: Should mention, while I was routing glitchless Any%, getting the jetpack in E3L1 and using it in E3L2 rather than going up the elevator saves a couple of seconds.
Ah, that makes sense!
I'm currently focusing on figuring out if there is a consistent way to get the level end intermission skip... TermiT and General Arcade recently updated the Megaton GitHub to the latest source for 1.3.2, so I'll be digging through that. It would be nice to figure out a consistent method, so that the intermissions are not just arbitrary amounts of time for RTA.
LLCoolDave and I were discussing RTA timing methods, and he raised a good question: if, in fact, the intermission skip is completely arbitrary, should the intermissions be included in the timing? It could mean that runs may need to be heavily re-run in order to attempt to get the best intermission luck (especially as runs become more and more optimal). Alternatively to real-time, we could use an in-game time calculation to avoid the possible intermission time issue... Admittedly, the in-game time can take quite a bit more effort to measure. Although this instance may not end up being an issue, I wonder what the precedent is for timing other games that include arbitrary "luck"-based time changers, especially those that aren't considered to be in-game.
I've finished adding a new wiki page for the IL categories and moved the Megaton IL tables over there -- feel free to add your runs, let me know if you need a hand with timing
Was checking out the wiki, and the Any% RTA route is Any% Glitchless RTA's route. lol
Should that be a redlink for now?
http://www.hitbox.tv/video/212347
21:25.66 for Glitchless as well, pretty happy with it for now.
Maybe I should add a table with runs for reference use...
(Hitbox's "Push to YouTube" seems to be broken, I'll replace the link once it's working)
Should that be a redlink for now?
http://www.hitbox.tv/video/212347
21:25.66 for Glitchless as well, pretty happy with it for now.
Maybe I should add a table with runs for reference use...
(Hitbox's "Push to YouTube" seems to be broken, I'll replace the link once it's working)
I wanted to have the link set up for when we add the Any% section to the RTA page. Right now, I hope it will not be too confusing to readers that the section doesn't exist yet... As long as the page exists, whether or not the anchor and section exist, that link will not show up as broken.
I'm planning to expand the RTA section soon with a rules section and timing section similar to the ILs page -- I'll wait to more thoroughly discuss thoughts on timing though. Additionally, it would be nice to add some tables for tracking runners' fastest RTA times in the various categories Is that sort of what you were thinking? I think that could be a good way to provide video references to accompany the route guides.
Awesome run, very nicely done! There are a few trick jumps and non-glitch skips that I could see bringing your time down further... One big skip I wonder about though is the Hotel Hell pipebomb trick -- I guess you are avoiding that because it is a major skip? Personally, I don't consider that skip a glitch though (more of a level design feature)... do you think that should be allowed for glitchless? It would be nice to keep the glitchless rules very simple, if possible.
I'm planning to expand the RTA section soon with a rules section and timing section similar to the ILs page -- I'll wait to more thoroughly discuss thoughts on timing though. Additionally, it would be nice to add some tables for tracking runners' fastest RTA times in the various categories
Awesome run, very nicely done!
I'm not 100% sure on the pipebomb skip. It just seems like it should be a glitch, but at the same time it looks too intentionally placed.
I guess to keep things simple we can allow it (I'd assume glitchless would appeal to newer speedrunners), but I'm still on the fence about it; hearing "glitchless" you'd expect there not to be a major level skip. idk
I guess to keep things simple we can allow it (I'd assume glitchless would appeal to newer speedrunners), but I'm still on the fence about it; hearing "glitchless" you'd expect there not to be a major level skip. idk