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Hello everyone. Recently Drakengard 3 (also know as Drag-On Dragoon 3) was released in Japan on the 19th and I've been planning a speedrun of it. For those who don't know, Drakengard is in the same universe as Nier.

Anyway, an explanation of categories I'm planning.

Basically, the game has 4 endings (A, B, C, D), however they are not branched. When you obtain ending A, you are given a new "route" of missions that eventually leads to ending B. Ditto with ending C. Route D, however, requires you to obtain every weapon in the game to unlock. So, in a way, truly "beating the game" requires you to obtain Ending D. However, I would say that reaching the end and beating the game are two different categories. For this reason, I am planning an Ending A run and an Ending D run. Ending A brings you through most of the "settings" in the game and has the most content of the routes, where as the other routes have a fair bit of rehash. Because Ending A goes through the "content" and reaches a credit sequence, I think its fair to call this Any%, while calling Ending D 100%. These are also two good categories because they have radically different play styles. Ending A is getting the best weapon you can early on and powering through the game as fast as possible. Ending D requires you to be more meathodical so you obtain weapons along the way in the most efficient fashion.

Anyway, to the planning itself.

Ending A
Trial run I did Christmas Day (This was after only 2 playthroughs so of course its sloppy)
http://www.twitch.tv/thesenzura/c/3450168
A few things
1: I obtain a certain heavy sword (I don't know japanese so bear with me on these names) and upgrade it throughout the run for a few reasons
Most swords have a "cone" like hit radius. This is all fine, but doesn't do the job for the grinding that is needed to keep up with the enemies in the run. This particular heavy sword has a massive cone, allowing me to mow down large numbers of enemies and get the experience/gold I need to keep up. The attack is slower, but kills things faster overall considering enemies are usually in groups.
2: Its air special is incredible broken. I call it "rising slash" for purposes of the run. First of all, using it extends my jump and gains my a little bit of air which allows me to jump to places I shouldn't be able to or hit enemies the game wants me to use the disk weapons for (the disk weapons are terrible but allow me to target enemies from afar. Obviously this wastes time). In addition, I use this to get over invisible walls that the game wants you to use lances (terrible weapons overall) to break. Theoretically I should be able to use this to clip OoB, but I've only been successful in one part of the game and it jsut slides me back in bounds. The second reason I use it is because its hitbox is just plain huge. During the run, I jump up at lease 3 sword heights above enemies and STILL this attack hits. This allows me to kill archers behind barricades and other groups of enemies without losing the momentum that normal attacks take from me.

A note on dashing with this weapon - While with the smaller swords and other weapons, dashing is faster than walking, with this particular sword, I'm not so sure. I've timed in on a straight bridge, with mixed results. However, you can actually "dodge cancel" your attacks with this weapon if you hit it on the right frame and immediately dash out out of this dodge, effectively double dashing, but this seems to be inconsistent.

The other weapon I use is the default claw and boots I'm given halfway through the run, which I eventually upgrade to Lv4. These have a special combo that attacks until my SP runs out, which allows me to drain bosses HP quite easily (Most boss enemies are hit sponges.) These also let me side dodge then  dash out of it, allowing for faster movement as I simply zigzag forward.

Ending D
This is a much different speedrun because it requires grinding and doing side missions. As far as I know, quite a few of the weapons you get from completing a set of side missions can actually be bought at the menu, so I think completing every side objective is not a concern. In addition, some side missions are literally RNG whether you actually beat them or not (particularly the foggy forest claw/jewel missions) I could one hit everything and still not be able to get the items fast enough. Because of this, it seems gold grinding for some of the weapons may be faster. Other than that, the dificulty jumps between routes so some careful grinding has to be done/.
Thread title:  
All the things
Quote from Senzura:
Basically, the game has 4 endings (A, B, C, D), however they are not branched. When you obtain ending A, you are given a new "route" of missions that eventually leads to ending B. Ditto with ending C. Route D, however, requires you to obtain every weapon in the game to unlock. So, in a way, truly "beating the game" requires you to obtain Ending D. However, I would say that reaching the end and beating the game are two different categories. For this reason, I am planning an Ending A run and an Ending D run. Ending A brings you through most of the "settings" in the game and has the most content of the routes, where as the other routes have a fair bit of rehash. Because Ending A goes through the "content" and reaches a credit sequence, I think its fair to call this Any%, while calling Ending D 100%. These are also two good categories because they have radically different play styles. Ending A is getting the best weapon you can early on and powering through the game as fast as possible. Ending D requires you to be more meathodical so you obtain weapons along the way in the most efficient fashion.


This is pretty much the same justification I use for my Nier runs. I'm not sure how this game breaks it up for the other endings, but for Nier I have to treat Ending D runs as segmented, with one ending per segment (and skipping Ending C).

I'm waiting for the stateside release before I start playing around with this game, but your initial results are encouraging. Keep it up!
Edit history:
Rezard: 2013-12-26 02:07:25 pm
Meteor Swarm
I was also thinkin on giving a try on this game (i got it the first day) . But seriously if you want to attempt it you/we should really wait if they gona make a fps drop patch fix..
and imho for early game the lance seem better than the heavy sword you spoke off (don't know japanese either but i know the one you talk about).

Personaly i will wait (and hope they gona do it) a patch for that godamn frame loss issue (seriously...) if they do it i will start running this game too.
I'll try the lance, but as I said, I think the rising slash is simply too versatile of a move to pass up. And as the route becomes more and more optimized, gold is going to be tighter so I won't be able to afford upgrading anything but two weapons
All right some updates

I can safely say that lances are completely useless. Using them completely stuns you in a way that makes fluid movement impossible. The attacks are way to hard and linear and just feel awkward.

HOWEVER
There is a movement trick that is possible that involves charging then pressing R2 to bring up the weapon select wheel right at the end of the charge before the slash, re-selecting the lance, dashing, then repeating. This lets you instantly charge again. This is so complex and wastes so much time if you mess it up that I haven't really gotten around to practicing yet, but its viable.

In addition, after some testing, the good level to be at is 19 for the final area, as this lets you build berserk effectively without being killed. This level can probably be safely attained without backtracking, but still requires pretty fluid combat.

Gold seems to become a non issue halfway through the run so I wonder if theres a efficient way to use it rather than just letting it sit.

Anyway, heres a Route A run in 4:06:04. Two parts because stream died on me
http://www.twitch.tv/thesenzura/b/491199568
http://www.twitch.tv/thesenzura/b/491214440
I might be talking out of my ass so forgive my ignorance, I haven't played the game yet, but according to this tumblr post, I quote:

Kaine DLC
- It’s faster to move with Kaine costume
- Normal Attack damage increased

Apparently you can only get Kainé's outfit by purchasing the 10th anniversary box and I've no idea if they released it on the JP PSN yet. So unless you did get the DLC, you think you can confirm that using Kainé's outfit makes your movement faster / grants you an overall damage boost? Because if that's the case, I bet this could improve your run time even more - unless you don't want to use the DLC, of course.
Edit history:
Senzura: 2013-12-30 11:15:34 am
Senzura: 2013-12-30 11:15:16 am
Unfortunately its not on the japanese PSN so I can't get access to it just yet. I am a little suspicious of the post because I haven't't heard anywhere but there that the DLC costumes would actually have a gameplay difference. The attack speed is what I'm curious, as movement speed is a non issue sense I dash the entire run anyway.

Even if it did change gameplay I would be more interested in the Caim outfit insofar as it increases special, which I abuse more in the run than normal attacks.

EDIT: After snooping around I can confirm that costumes are purely cosmetic and the tumblr is referring to the weapons in regards to gameplay changes, which means it shouldn't affect the route
All the things
Quick note on DLC costumes: be wary of using them without testing. For Nier, the DLC costumes add .3-1 second on each loading screen, which adds up over the course of the run. If the engine is similar, it may affect loading screens in the same way.
Edit history:
Silvius78: 2013-12-30 06:37:11 pm
Silvius78: 2013-12-30 06:37:10 pm
Hello , I'm new here and i speedrun this game i have done my first speedrun on twitch on this game here the video : http://www.twitch.tv/silvius78/c/3468668

Basically i buy the long sword at the start for gaining speed with a instant air dash then rising slash (air triangle attack)

After that i upgrade the first spear to level 2 to unlock the spear multi strike that often stun boss a does a nice DPS

At act 3 i just only use Claw until the end of the game cause of ground dashing speed and the decent DPS , i just buy a spear at the end of act 3  (the green one at 20600G didn't know the name) for the last chapter (this spear maxed had 311 damage and the dive air triangle attack pattern its really powerful for cleaning up soldier waves)

I died against egregory boss i messed up my optimal strategy...(this one :  http://www.twitch.tv/silvius78/c/3468800) and i failed the sub 3h cause of that.
The run is pretty decent but i think a sub 2:50 is possible with actual strategy.

If you really want it , I can make a tutorial video of all of the movement tricks to gain speed , and optimized boss fight

Sorry for my poor english and thanks for reading me !

PS : @Rezard 1.02 version have fixed the fps issue in the major way
All the things
Very nice Silvius! Looking forward to more discoveries for this game in general. Sub-3 speedruns make it a very attractive game indeed.
Edit history:
Senzura: 2013-12-30 07:14:03 pm
Quote from Silvius78:
Basically i buy the long sword at the start for gaining speed with a instant air dash then rising slash (air triangle attack)

After that i upgrade the first spear to level 2 to unlock the spear multi strike that often stun boss a does a nice DPS

At act 3 i just only use Claw until the end of the game cause of ground dashing speed and the decent DPS , i just buy a spear at the end of act 3  (the green one at 20600G didn't know the name) for the last chapter (this spear maxed had 311 damage and the dive air triangle attack pattern its really powerful for cleaning up soldier waves)



It looks like you use the same weapon strategies as I do through the whole game, save the spear. I'll defiantly give it a shot considering I'm sitting on a lot of gold right now

As for the egregory strat thats what I've been useing and its defiantly the best.
Edit history:
mkob: 2013-12-31 09:33:13 am
mkob: 2013-12-31 09:32:37 am
mkob: 2013-12-31 01:25:11 am
mkob: 2013-12-31 01:18:41 am
mkob: 2013-12-31 01:15:59 am
mkob: 2013-12-31 01:15:08 am
mkob: 2013-12-31 01:14:41 am
mkob: 2013-12-31 01:12:33 am
mkob: 2013-12-31 01:10:47 am
mkob: 2013-12-31 01:08:57 am
mkob: 2013-12-31 01:08:42 am
mkob: 2013-12-31 01:08:24 am
mkob: 2013-12-31 01:08:14 am
Quote from Senzura:
EDIT: After snooping around I can confirm that costumes are purely cosmetic and the tumblr is referring to the weapons in regards to gameplay changes, which means it shouldn't affect the route


Oh I see, that's too bad then.

On a lighter note, some guy on Youtube said that someone found a glitch that lets you use any weapon with the move-set of another weapon (let's say you can use a greatsword, but with the move-set of a chakram, etc.). The glitch starts at around 1:10



"Pick a weapon, go into Utautai Mode (Singing Goddess Mode), then as soon as you revert back change weapon. Boom, now you're equipped with the 1st weapon having the moveset of the second one. This gives some hilariously overpowered weapons, like the Greatsword having the Chakram's moveset and some pretty funny ones like the spear having the gauntlets moveset.

The game doesn't crash or anything, you can still fast step/jump etc... and if you change weapon once you come back to your 1st weapon (the weapon you're using the appearance of). It gives pretty fun combos!"
Meteor Swarm
Quote:
@Rezard 1.02 version have fixed the fps issue in the major way

Yes yes yes yesssssssss. Now i can start studying this game.

I must try this weapon switching glitch
Edit history:
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 09:37:08 am
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 09:20:53 am
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 09:20:45 am
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 09:20:44 am
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 09:18:38 am
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 09:12:20 am
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 09:01:24 am
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 08:33:39 am
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 08:30:09 am
Wow this glitch seem really interesting i will incorpore this on my run I've already some idea (for example Great sword to lance at the beginning of act2 just after the fight against the first cerberus)

A another good thing , with this glitch we doesn't need to upgrade more than spear weapon during the run , you just have to save your utautai for this weapon trick (or take heavy damage to have a free Utautai mode instantly) and its gg

@Rezard If you remembered me I'm the french guy which was often on your stream when you played MH3U Smiley

Edit : look at what i've found during glitch testing its hilarious and really worth it on damage : http://www.twitch.tv/silvius78/c/3474038
I'm testing some propreties hum this glitch transfert pattern but if your weapon doesn't have enough square move (my lance just have five when i transfert fist on it) the new weapon will also have 5 square move , the same happen when you want to use a triangle attack  , the meter gauge deplete with the requirement of your actual weapon (the one you have the skin) , infortunaly i have no more the multikick pattern (i got the launcher kick instead doesn't know why)

Edit 2 : we need to test all of the combinaison to find the most optimal strategy (with the speedrun route weapon) cause its change weapon pattern with each combinaison

Edit 3 : Ok i found out how the weapon proprety transfert work i'll try to explain that :

- 1) the first weapon (the one that you have before utautai mode) doesn't have any importance you just need to take the "type" of weapon you want to transfert (sword spear fist or chakram)
- 2) Now utautai do the glitch and choose the weapon which you want to transfert the  1st weapon gameplay
- 3) Now depend of your 2nd weapon pattern the new weapon will have his new pattern adjusted (the game probably apply the move slot# of your 2nd basic weapon to the 1st weapon type you choose)

And voila you have a new weapon with the gameplay of one and the power/meter-needed of the second

Note : there some weirdo animation move like one i've posted above
Edit history:
Senzura: 2013-12-31 09:46:41 am


Oh god I lost it, that was hilarious

Really great glitch thats sure to break the game and the run

Also, in regards to the "best" stratagy, I thinks its pretty clear its the great sword we use with the chakram moveset. For the last level of course we would use the spear. The only problem I see with the usefullness of this glitch is its setup time is a little long. Obviously you can carry it over to the next wave of enemies, but if we are stealing the chakram's moveset, we don't have the zigzag roll of the claw. We can switch back, but for the next group of enemies we would have to sit through utauti, so in areas with spaced out groups the glitch may be more trouble than its worth
Edit history:
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 10:10:50 am
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 10:10:30 am
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 10:07:57 am
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 10:05:31 am
There it is , the moving strategy weapon combinaison (i tested it with speedrun weapon) : http://www.twitch.tv/silvius78/c/3474238

The dash cost nothing i dont know why probably the game skip the frame which should cost meter or something like that Cheesy

The combinaison is : Random sword + the flower fist (find in the second chest of 3-3 mission )

Now i need to find the clean up combinaison and the burst combinaison and i will run with this glitch

Edit : with the same combinaison there is a infinite spin (like the chakram one but smaller hitbox) the combo is square x4 then triangle x2
Quote from Silvius78:
There it is , the moving strategy weapon combinaison (i tested it with speedrun weapon) : http://www.twitch.tv/silvius78/c/3474238

The dash cost nothing i dont know why probably the game skip the frame which should cost meter or something like that Cheesy

The combinaison is : Random sword + the flower fist (find in the second chest of 3-3 mission )

Now i need to find the clean up combinaison and the burst combinaison and i will run with this glitch

Edit : with the same combinaison there is a infinite spin (like the chakram one but smaller hitbox) the combo is square x4 then triangle x2


And with that, the game is busted
Edit history:
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 11:55:31 am
Here it is some of my test , all of the test has made with obtainable weapon during speedrun (default spear and the flower fist)

Infinite dashing Chakram + Spear : http://www.twitch.tv/silvius78/c/3474518
Infinite dashing Sword + Fist : http://www.twitch.tv/silvius78/c/3474238

Spin attack Chakram + Spear : http://www.twitch.tv/silvius78/c/3474535
Spin attack Sword + Fist : http://www.twitch.tv/silvius78/c/3474544

Funny note : Chakram + flower fist give you a weird propreties on your triangle attack (Lock on) you have a hook like Nero in DMC4 lol that is hilarious

Edit : you can do the infinite dash with Sword + Spear like the fist version , so i think we will forget the fist and concentrate our attention on Spear (with multi strike pattern for spinning chakram)
Alright, so after my long new years stream Ill be uploading a compilation of some hard locks and some tricks with the WSG. It also seems that Sworeded Chakram gives you infinite dash as well

Hopefully Square Enix doesn't patch this
All the things
Quote from Senzura:
Hopefully Square Enix doesn't patch this


Given their past apathy for these games, I wouldn't count on it. It's lucky they even put out a patch for the framerate stuff.
Meteor Swarm
No, they won't unless they got a massive swarm of rant about thoses glitches (like the fps issue) . Guess we can play safe with it... Well  i hope.
Edit history:
Silvius78: 2013-12-31 10:32:43 pm
I'm really disapointed , i tried do run this game 4 time in a row today and just failed 4 time (1 early stupid death , 2 hardlock yes the game just frozen one with the weapon glitch and one without , and last time  my capture card decide to unplug by itself...)

I will try a sub 3h tomorrow i need to do it !

Square Enix please fix your game , the hard lockin thing is really a run killer and can happen at random time
Edit history:
Silvius78: 2014-01-02 03:17:53 pm
Silvius78: 2014-01-01 04:33:58 pm
Here it ts the nearly sub 2h50 : http://www.twitch.tv/silvius78/c/3479727

I have done some mistake i think 2h45 is possible in a perfect run

I need to figure out how to skip the cutscene when Zero awake in her bed.....that's a 77second skip so its help , in my 3h04 PB I did the skip randomly Sad

Edit : just seem the run and the quality is poor sorry for that i'll try to do a another run with a better quality
Edit history:
mkob: 2014-01-16 11:47:15 am
mkob: 2014-01-16 11:16:39 am
mkob: 2014-01-16 09:57:25 am
mkob: 2014-01-16 09:57:08 am
mkob: 2014-01-16 09:54:29 am
mkob: 2014-01-16 09:49:52 am
mkob: 2014-01-16 09:47:47 am
mkob: 2014-01-16 09:40:49 am
mkob: 2014-01-16 09:37:15 am
mkob: 2014-01-16 09:35:23 am
mkob: 2014-01-16 09:31:50 am
Alright, I can confirm what the DLC costumes do, if anyone is interested.
It looks like Caim's could be useful, but the other costumes are useless for speedrunning.

Edit: Caim's costume was a pre-order exclusive before but is now available for everyone on the JP PSN
Edit 2: I got this from the person who is in charge of a DOD3 fan-website, I asked her to be more precise in her translation for Eris' costume (I should get an answer shortly) as it sounds like you never run out of stamina EVEN while guarding? I don't know, the wording is weird.
Edit3: Yep, it was a mistake, here's what she wrote me back about Eris' costume: " I should have rephrased that. Typically when you guard and thusly get attacked, your SP will decrease by about 1/3. If you continue to hold the guard position without replenishing your SP, it will eventually run out and you will lose HP if you continue to get hit.

However, when you have Eris’ costume equipped, your SP will not decrease ONLY IN GUARD MODE. It’s not an infinite SP saver. So, basically, you can guard for however long you like and not receive any damage!"

Caim’s Costume:
Cost of SP attacks is cut in half

Kaine’s Costume:
Time to execute counter attacks is doubled

Nier’s Costume:
5% damage increase dealt to enemies

Furiae’s Costume:
5% damage decrease received from enemies

Manah’s Costume:
20% healing power increase to all items

Eris’ Costume:
(fixed) SP does not decrease while guarding
Well considering we don't even expend SP because of the WSG, Nier looks like it would be the only useful one