Dragon's lair (NES)

MASTER-88

ktwo

Edit history:

ktwo: 2018-01-07 02:09:05 pm

MASTER-88: 2007-10-24 03:51:59 pm

2007-10-24 03:44:50 pm

Master-88

This is one very interesting game. One hardest nes game ever. Grin

Is anybody else completed that game? I beat this game once my life, took me almost 3 weeks and hundred game overs:

****MY run status**************
-I use US emulator
-No save state
-No slow down
-No codes/cheats
-Completions attempts i died 4-5 times. My dieds:
+1-times i died advisedly in grim reaper hall (i get full energys)
+3-4 times i died against Singe. We everysingle know how random fights this is.

-My compeltions time was almost 20-25 minutes. This suck.
It was my only completions
**************************************

There is couple videos:

Amateur player beat game with savestate:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6297125868943443386&q=Dragon+lair+%2Bnes&total=33&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7

TAS: 3.58 JPN:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3270817586895015725&q=Dragon+lair+%2Bnes&total=33&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

Tas run is incredible this require lot manipulate luck and JPN versio is much faster than US versio.

Tas run includes Singe skip too. This is most helpfull trick, but i don,t know how this working on console.

I give this challenge for you guys. I don,t know anyone else who can complete game W/O cheats. I am only one here. My time is almost 20 minutes ( i don,t use seconds accurate clock)

I can guess 15 minutes is probably possible with US on console run. If you can beat game W/O deaths.

Thread title:

This is one very interesting game. One hardest nes game ever.  ;D

Is anybody else completed that game? I beat this game once my life, took me almost 3 weeks and hundred game overs:

****MY run status**************
-I use US emulator
-No save state
-No slow down
-No codes/cheats
-Completions attempts i died 4-5 times. My dieds:
+1-times i died advisedly in grim reaper hall (i get full energys)
+3-4 times i died against Singe. We everysingle know how random fights this is.

-My compeltions time was almost 20-25 minutes. This suck.
It was my only completions
**************************************

There is couple videos:

Amateur player beat game with savestate:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6297125868943443386&q=Dragon+lair+%2Bnes&total=33&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7

TAS: 3.58 JPN:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3270817586895015725&q=Dragon+lair+%2Bnes&total=33&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

Tas run is incredible this require lot manipulate luck and JPN versio is much faster than US versio.

Tas run includes Singe skip too. This is most helpfull trick, but i don,t know how this working on console.

I give this challenge for you guys. I don,t know anyone else who can complete game W/O cheats. I am only one here. My time is almost 20 minutes ( i don,t use seconds accurate clock)

I can guess 15 minutes is probably possible with US on console run. If you can beat game W/O deaths.

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2007-10-24 05:51:54 pm

2007-10-24 05:51:05 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Yeah, that looks like a pretty hard game. With some things only harming you, and other things causing an instant death. Although with some practice, I'm sure you can get through without dying. Not much speed in this game. I think a time of 15 minutes for the US version is a good time to aim for. Good luck with this.

MASTER-88

2007-10-24 06:23:23 pm

Master-88

Quote:

Yeah, that looks like a pretty hard game. With some things only harming you, and other things causing an instant death. Although with some practice, I'm sure you can get through without dying

I compelted game april 2005. How much i practice that?

I playing alot that game. Everysingle spot took lot practice. After 2 weeks i finally completed all levels easily without dying. I don,t really have any trouble beat levels. But last boss everytime ruined my game. How many time i lose all my lifes against last boss?

I remember 3 days and almost 10-15 game overs against last boss only. +Completion attempts i died about 4 times.

Overall game is not too hard when you remember everysingle traps. Last boss is only spot it can ruined very easily your game/speedrun.

When you watch that TAS video. You see he skip last boss fights. I don,t know is that possible on console. How hard trick this is? and working that US or PAL versio?

It is one major speedtrick.
Last boss is not very long but it is so hard beat. And everysingle mistake ruin you speedrun instantly.

Yeah 15 minutes can be very good time, when you know US versio is at least twice longer than JPN. 15 minutes is very realistic time too, i belive it is possible, but requires NO deaths run.

[quote]Yeah, that looks like a pretty hard game.  With some things only harming you, and other things causing an instant death.  Although with some practice, I'm sure you can get through without dying[/quote]

I compelted game april 2005. How much i practice that?

I playing alot that game. Everysingle spot took lot practice. After 2 weeks i finally completed all levels easily without dying. I don,t really have any trouble beat levels.  But last boss everytime ruined my game. How many time i lose all my lifes against last boss?

I remember 3 days and almost 10-15 game overs against last boss only. +Completion attempts i died about 4 times.

Overall game is not too hard when you remember everysingle traps. Last boss is only spot it can ruined very easily your game/speedrun.

When you watch that TAS video. You see he skip last boss fights. I don,t know is that possible on console. How hard trick this is? and working that US or PAL versio?

It is one major speedtrick.
Last boss is not very long but it is so hard beat. And everysingle mistake ruin you speedrun instantly.

Yeah 15 minutes can be very good time, when you know US versio is at least twice longer than JPN. 15 minutes is very realistic time too, i belive it is possible, but requires NO deaths run.

Vugmer

2007-10-27 08:50:08 pm

Cigar Man

Quote:

-My compeltions time was almost 20-25 minutes.

I tried to speedrun the first screen, and it took me like 20 to 25 minutes.

MASTER-88

2007-10-28 04:37:28 pm

Master-88

Quote:

I tried to speedrun the first screen, and it took me like 20 to 25 minutes.

Heh heh

Yeah i remember when i play that game first time. First screen took me many game overs as well.

I don,t know what hell give me motivations play and play that game again and again. Game looks crap and controlls are horribles first time.

DARKDEATH

2007-11-29 11:06:34 pm

My childhood

You know, this game is awesome in the arcade. On the NES... not so much. The first screen, the castle drawbridge: If you try to crouch to kill the dragon, he just sits down there and waits for you to pop up again. How the FUCK are you supposed to kill him? AUGH!

MASTER-88

2007-11-30 12:06:25 pm

Master-88

Quote:

The first screen, the castle drawbridge: If you try to crouch to kill the dragon, he just sits down there and waits for you to pop up again. How the FUCK are you supposed to kill him? AUGH!

My method kill first Dragon is simple. I walk over the Bridge and when Dragon appear. I go back left side corner.

Now i go crouch. Next: turn your face towards of Dragon and up rise and throw couple dagger and back crouch again.

This way is simple. Draw bridge is easiest area in the game.

Actually most bosses are very easy to beat. There is Cheap method against most bosses. Only expect is Singe/lastboss, there is No cheap to beat him expect that JPN TAS you can skip him, i don,t know how he did it.

Maglok

2007-11-30 02:42:15 pm

Dum die dum

Oh this game was so annoying. Damn that first screen! Stupid bridge. Tongue

I'd like to see you do it, it really is memorizing everything that will kill you and then just execute it all perfectly.

You can use a emulator? Didn't know that.

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2007-11-30 07:34:18 pm

2007-11-30 07:33:16 pm

Master-88

Quote:

You can use a emulator? Didn't know that.

Actually emulator is not allowed if you go recorded this in SDA. I completed that game with US emulator over 2 years ago. I don,t still use any cheats/codes. This game is really possible complete on console.

I wonder nobody don,t recorded never that run. Actually Dragon lair is easier beat w/o deaths than Ninja gaiden or Ghost & goblins IMO.

I beat dragon lair 4 deaths only. Ninja gaiden and Ghost & goblins took much more deaths for me. Still SDA runners can beat both game w/o deaths

NK3233

2007-11-30 09:16:10 pm

It's-a me, Stalin!

Quote:

Actually emulator is not allowed if you go recorded this in SDA. I completed that game with US emulator over 2 years ago. I don,t still use any cheats/codes. This game is really possible complete on console.

I wonder nobody don,t recorded never that run. Actually Dragon lair is easier beat w/o deaths than Ninja gaiden or Ghost & goblins IMO.

I beat dragon lair 4 deaths only. Ninja gaiden and Ghost & goblins took much more deaths for me. Still SDA runners can beat both game w/o deaths

Where did you get the rom for this? I thought this game was EPS protected

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2007-11-30 09:33:09 pm

2007-11-30 09:25:40 pm

Master-88

I don,t sure what is my rom. My emulator was Nestle95 or something, i don,t sure about this. Roll Eyes

Right now i don,t have emulator.

But who care about rom/emulator? Same game as normal console game. I don,t use savestate/slowdown. 8) I don,t made video about this.

Game is hard, but not too hard in the SDA players. Wink

NK3233

2007-11-30 09:27:49 pm

It's-a me, Stalin!

Quote:

I don,t sure what is my rom. My emulator was Nestle95 or something, i don,t sure about this. Roll Eyes

Right now i don,t have emulator.

But who care about rom/emulator? Same game as normal console game. I don,t use savestate/slowdown. 8) I don,t made video about this.

I have VirtuaNES and i want the game, that's why i'm bothered Tongue

Vugmer

2007-12-01 10:04:10 am

Cigar Man

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/28184.html?type=wmv

DARKDEATH

2007-12-04 10:30:41 pm

My childhood

Okay, so the dragon killing worked for me, but why is there a drawbridge AND a door? The drawbridge IS the fucking door! After I played this game, I had to find a happy place.

MASTER-88

2008-08-12 04:59:38 am

Master-88

Ok huge bumb.

But i finally find something really great:

This guy beat this game for speed and with 1 deaths only on console.
His run is done on PAL versio. There is huge amount versio difference between different versios.
-On PAL first boss is new one.

-There is more enemys. +Different boss rooms
-My opinion Dirk walking much faster on PAL than NTSC. This is weird, normally US versio is always faster.

-I finally see somebody else than me have skills play that game. This man rock. Only one death and i think this was intention, because he need get full energys.

I hope this guy send this run in SDA too. Dragon lair is one hardest game in the world. Only very patient players can beat this game.

ktwo

2008-08-12 02:13:30 pm

I also beat DL on NTSC a couple of years ago. I confirm it's very hard. Took me an insane amount of tries before Singe went down, but I did it from start to finish without cheating.

Singe looks considerably easier in the PAL-version, which is also stated by the runner. Normally it's the other way around. The PAL-version is much harder (like the levels seem to be in DL). I come to think of Rygar, where the last boss, Ligar, is a piece of cake in NTSC, but I dare to say one of the all-time NES challenges on the PAL-version. I know this is a thread about Dragon's Lair, but is there someone who can honestly say they beat Rygar fair and square on PAL ?

The run looks ok IMO, but some time is also wasted getting unnecessary items for example.

MASTER-88

2008-08-13 04:05:18 am

Master-88

I remember you.

You wrote Dragon Lair completion guide in game faqs. Your guide was my best friend when i play that game. Wink

Me too have trouble beat Singe. This took me only two days and almost 20 game overs, even other game was pretty easy when i play over again.

After i finished it decide i never ever touch again this game. This took me lot frustrating. Singe looks easier, but on PAL it take 10 more axe hits kill him.

****************EDIT***

I yesterday ask him is he interested send this run in SDA?: He probably send that, but he try improve his time yet.
We looking forward

ktwo

2008-08-13 03:03:30 pm

Well, well, it's a small world so it seems. I'm glad the guide proved useful to someone. I never expected it to be much read (considering the amount of feedback I got so far, my guess must have been pretty accurate). At the time it was the biggest challenge I had faced on NES (alongside with Rygar on PAL), so I decided to write the guide. Since then Snake Rattle 'n Roll found its way to my "to-beat-list". I haven't been near beating Icefoot (the last boss) even with save states. I had to remove it from the list just so I could get on with my life. There is no luck involved, no bad control, no excuses, you just need pure gaming skills in its most distilled form. You should try your skills at that game too if you really are a MASTER. Wink

Getting back to the subject. I would be thrilled to see an improved run of DL that makes the cut to this site.

MASTER-88

2008-08-13 04:06:00 pm

Master-88

I am playing once nes game snake rattle roll. It is very very long time ago when i played this, i was very young boy almost 7 years old. Yeah i don,t never beat that game. My game ended up in level 2-3.

I am hearing this game is very hard to beat. One hardest nes game as well. We don,t still can say requires this more skills than Draon lair. Most peoples say Dragon lair controls suck, but it is just as well skill how you learn control that game. Most peoples don,t like play that because it is very hard control your Dirk. This take much time first time, but when you learn it this is not any harder control than other games

Draon lair not requires too much luck, expect Singe of course. This boss is almost pure luck fight, but any levels itself don,t requires too much luck manipulations. All what you need most is experience.

**
Im not never playing Rygar, but i still watching today EU & US game play, i don,t really know what makes PAL last boss so much harder. Both looks like same IMO.
********
Oh and welcome to SDA ktwo. Enjoy you stay. Cheesy

I am playing once nes game snake rattle roll. It is very very long time ago when i played this, i was very young boy  almost 7 years old. Yeah i don,t never beat that game. My game ended up in level 2-3.

I am hearing this game is very hard to beat. One hardest nes game as well. We don,t still can say requires this more skills than Draon lair. Most peoples say Dragon lair controls suck, but it is just as well skill how you learn control that game. Most peoples don,t like play that because it is very hard control your Dirk. This take much time first time, but when you learn it this is not any harder control than other games

Draon lair not requires too much luck, expect Singe of course. This boss is almost pure luck fight, but any levels itself don,t requires too much luck manipulations. All what you need most is experience.

**
Im not never playing Rygar, but i still watching today EU & US game play, i don,t really know what makes PAL last boss so much harder. Both looks like same IMO. 
********
Oh and welcome to SDA ktwo. Enjoy you stay. :D

Emptyeye

2008-08-13 07:43:38 pm

Talk to the Hand

RE: PAL Rygar: A guy named CornShaq has done it. He used an emulator, but I'm pretty sure he didn't use slowdown/save states--from a previous account, he was apparently not even aware he had the wrong (ie PAL) version of the ROM until after the fact.

I'm pretty sure I've gone over this in the topic for Rygar here on SDA, but basically, the PAL version has much lower strength caps than the NTSC version, meaning the end bosses (Particularly Ligar) take a lot more hits to kill, even if you don't speed run the PAL version like I did the NTSC one (In the PAL version, Ligar takes something like 33 hits to kill with a fully powered-up Rygar. In my NTSC speedrun, I do it in 16; a fully-powered Rygar can do it in as little as 8-9).

ktwo

2008-08-14 10:34:10 am

Emptyeye, all respect to your Rygar run (and good comments). Thanks for indicating the youtube video. Never thought I would see that. I always remembered Ligar throwing hords of unavoidable projectile patterns in my way, but when seeing this video it sure doesn't look too hard (only one unavoidable damage).

Please tell me if you find a video of someone beating Icefoot without autofire also !

Sorry for all non-relevant talk to Dragon's Lair.

Emptyeye

2008-08-14 07:07:53 pm

Talk to the Hand

Thanks. As far as Rygar goes, yeah, CornShaq's YouTube video makes it look a lot easier than is usually is (I played around a bit with the PAL ROM of Rygar back when I was into speedrunning it...suffice to say I never beat it). I think there is a lot of luck involved, though you could reasonably say that about Deathpigor and probably the boss of Lapis too...it really all depends on how many shots they actually fire at you.

Trying to futilely drag this back on-topic, the problem with Dragon's Lair (And really, any of the Laserdisc-to-console conversions...Space Ace for the SNES is another fine example) is that they took the almost puzzle-like, hit-the-right-direction-at-the-right-time-or-die of the original Laserdisc version of the game (Which, to be fair, is also absurdly difficult...my first experience with the game consisted of me dying 5 times in a row. I'm not kidding), and tried to shoehorn that mechanic into an action game. The end result is an ultra-difficult, clumsy hybrid of a game that fails as both action game and pseudo-puzzler. So that anyone can beat it at all is really quite impressive.

Thanks. As far as Rygar goes, yeah, CornShaq's YouTube video makes it look a lot easier than is usually is (I played around a bit with the PAL ROM of Rygar back when I was into speedrunning it...suffice to say I never beat it). I think there is a lot of luck involved, though you could reasonably say that about Deathpigor and probably the boss of Lapis too...it really all depends on how many shots they actually fire at you.

Trying to futilely drag this back on-topic, the problem with Dragon's Lair (And really, any of the Laserdisc-to-console conversions...Space Ace for the SNES is another fine example) is that they took the almost puzzle-like, hit-the-right-direction-at-the-right-time-or-die of the original Laserdisc version of the game (Which, to be fair, is also absurdly difficult...my first experience with the game consisted of me dying 5 times in a row. I'm not kidding), and tried to shoehorn that mechanic into an action game. The end result is an ultra-difficult, clumsy hybrid of a game that fails as both action game and pseudo-puzzler. So that anyone can beat it at all is really quite impressive.

Wizphix

2008-08-23 05:37:58 am

Hi!

It was my YouTube clip that MASTER-88 linked to. I've been practicing a lot and yesterday I managed to complete my speedrun (no deaths). Now I'm gonna need a lite help, how do I send in my contribution?

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2008-08-23 06:23:18 pm

2008-08-23 06:10:51 pm

Hey thar.

First thing to know is that SDA's pretty stringent when it comes to the quality of the video, so if your recorded run isn't in a high quality format (say, HQ/SP on a DVD, an AVI from Fraps, or MPEG2 from a video capture card), it may not get accepted for that reason. Not that SDA is the definitive speedrun site or the be-all-and-end-all, though.

If you've got a good source video, we've got an app that can encode all the files SDA needs called Anri-chan. For Dragon's Lair you'd need LQ and MQ qualities. You'd only need MP4 videos for SDA, so you can ignore the AVI options. I don't think you need HQ or IQ - as far as I can tell, Dragon's Lair runs at a disgustingly slow 12fps.

Alternatively, you could send the source video to nate (Nathan Jahnke, contact him for details) and he would handle the encoding for you.

Anyway, if you have no problems with that, then the deal is thus: Send a PM to mikwuyma (Mike Uyama) with the basic details, and he'll add the game to this topic asking for people to check the run for problems. I don't think it'll take more than a day or two to be honest. Once that's sorted, Mike will get back in touch with you asking you to send the videos to Nate. The default method is through SDA's BitTorrent tracker (again, Mike will send details), but you can use other methods like uploading it to web space if you like. He'll also ask for the full details of the run (your name, the type of run, expected time, comments for the page etc). Then the run will go out to the verifers, and if there's no problems you'll get a PM saying the run's accepted and it'll go into the queue waiting to get posted on the site.

The whole process does take a bit of time, but after you've done it once it's a piece of cake.

More details at http://speeddemosarchive.com/submit.html

Hey thar.

First thing to know is that SDA's pretty stringent when it comes to the quality of the video, so if your recorded run isn't in a high quality format (say, HQ/SP on a DVD, an AVI from Fraps, or MPEG2 from a video capture card), it may not get accepted for that reason. Not that SDA is the definitive speedrun site or the be-all-and-end-all, though.

If you've got a good source video, we've got an app that can encode all the files SDA needs called [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/index.php/Anri-chan]Anri-chan[/url]. For Dragon's Lair you'd need LQ and MQ qualities. You'd only need MP4 videos for SDA, so you can ignore the AVI options. I don't think you need HQ or IQ - as far as I can tell, Dragon's Lair runs at a disgustingly slow 12fps.

Alternatively, you could send the source video to nate (Nathan Jahnke, contact him for details) and he would handle the encoding for you.

Anyway, if you have no problems with that, then the deal is thus: Send a PM to mikwuyma (Mike Uyama) with the basic details, and he'll add the game to [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,1285.0.html]this topic[/url] asking for people to check the run for problems. I don't think it'll take more than a day or two to be honest. Once that's sorted, Mike will get back in touch with you asking you to send the videos to Nate. The default method is through SDA's BitTorrent tracker (again, Mike will send details), but you can use other methods like uploading it to web space if you like. He'll also ask for the full details of the run (your name, the type of run, expected time, comments for the page etc). Then the run will go out to the verifers, and if there's no problems you'll get a PM saying the run's accepted and it'll go into the queue waiting to get posted on the site.

The whole process does take a bit of time, but after you've done it once it's a piece of cake.

More details at [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/submit.html]http://speeddemosarchive.com/submit.html[/url]

65

2008-08-23 06:42:04 pm

Quote from bmn:

Then the run will go out to the verifers, and if there's no problems you'll get a PM saying the run's accepted and it'll go into the queue waiting to get posted on the site.

I've submitted to the site several times and I've never gotten a PM to confirm my run has been accepted by the verifiers... I haven't specifically asked or anything, though. So no need to worry even if you don't get one. However, if your run is rejected or the verifiers want to ask you something, then you'll get PMs/email from Mike. Basically, once you've gotten permission & sent the run in, no news is good news until you're featured on the main page.