Dragon Warrior Run

ShinerCCC

Edit history:

ShinerCCC: 2011-01-03 11:18:45 pm

ShinerCCC: 2011-01-03 11:14:13 pm

2011-01-03 10:38:12 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

I have some good news!
My first and only run of the day was a success! Time seems to be around 6:03:xx! And live commentary was included! EDIT2: by my calculations it's 6:03:37, from when I appear in King Lorik's room to when I press A for the last time and get the final piece of narrative about peace returning.

Sorry I didn't post a quality test first. It was captured on a GameBridge on Best quality, so I'm not sure if it's lossless, if it isn't then hopefully the transcoding won't be so bad >_>

Working on combining these with Anri-chan and then adding the commentary. yay!

EDIT: short summary of things that went wrong? Axe Knight died first try due to an excellent move. Two Starwyverns did a double HEALMORE but not many others got off a HEALMORE. Took 3 tries to steal Erdrick's Sword but only one accidental death happened during the 13 to 19 grind (a Wyvern sneaked and sniped me). Also forgot to buy Herbs before the final conflict again but the two I brought turned out to be enough. Did not see a single Metal Slime, three Warlocks sleeplocked me for a while but the two I decided to kill were no problem. Small mistakes throughout due to lolzy commentary, most of which revolves around Smash Bros Melee.

I have some good news!
My first and only run of the day was a success! Time seems to be around [b]6:03:xx[/b]! And live commentary was included! EDIT2: by my calculations it's 6:03:37, from when I appear in King Lorik's room to when I press A for the last time and get the final piece of narrative about peace returning.

Sorry I didn't post a quality test first. It was captured on a GameBridge on Best quality, so I'm not sure if it's lossless, if it isn't then hopefully the transcoding won't be so bad >_>

Working on combining these with Anri-chan and then adding the commentary. yay!

EDIT: short summary of things that went wrong? Axe Knight died first try due to an excellent move. Two Starwyverns did a double HEALMORE but not many others got off a HEALMORE. Took 3 tries to steal Erdrick's Sword but only one accidental death happened during the 13 to 19 grind (a Wyvern sneaked and sniped me). Also forgot to buy Herbs before the final conflict again but the two I brought turned out to be enough. Did not see a single Metal Slime, three Warlocks sleeplocked me for a while but the two I decided to kill were no problem. Small mistakes throughout due to lolzy commentary, most of which revolves around Smash Bros Melee.

Nightmare

2011-01-03 10:57:02 pm

Congrats Shiner. I'll be looking forward to verifying you if you submit.

-James

Melodia

2011-01-04 12:02:40 am

Quote from Ryan8bit:

By this definition, the gold bug is also the way it is programmed, it's just that the process is longer and the benefit greater than with the Dragon Scale. It's all the same normal gameplay actions, and the only reason it got found is because someone had experienced it on accident not knowing what they did.

Yeah, but you still have to do something specific, instead of something a player might do normally, you see what I'm saying? Or to put it a different way, you can take normal actions without taking advantage of the gold bug, but you can't NOT take advantage of the dragon's scale one by playing 'normally'. See what I'm saying?

You can avoid opening the chests that aren't supposed to be opened. You can't avoid keeping the def bonus if you sell the scale (which is a normal, intended, gameplay action)

Ryan8bit

2011-01-04 09:47:23 am

I still think it's simply a matter of degree. Just like you can avoid opening chests, you can avoid selling the Dragon Scale. Plus, in the run it was an instant and blatant purchase/equip/sell. It was purposely used as an exploit, so I was just wondering where the line was drawn. The answer of point farming or case-by-case was good enough for me.

ShinerCCC

2011-01-27 06:59:58 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Wow, I'm stupid...I JUST found out the 6 hour run I captured has no game audio beyond 4 minutes in. The rest is silence. Such a shame I can't submit this to SDA, the audio commentary is golden.

When I figure out how to use the audio commentary as the default audio track I'll just put this on YouTube, but until then...someone crank out a level 18 run ;_;

Nightmare

2011-01-27 07:12:18 pm

Quote from ShinerCCC:

Wow, I'm stupid...I JUST found out the 6 hour run I captured has no game audio beyond 4 minutes in. The rest is silence. Such a shame I can't submit this to SDA, the audio commentary is golden.

When I figure out how to use the audio commentary as the default audio track I'll just put this on YouTube, but until then...someone crank out a level 18 run ;_;

DOLT!

:: consoles Shiner ::

-James

theseawolf1

2011-01-27 09:02:10 pm

SGL Scrublord

::Does the Platoon cover pose::

I was looking forward to this. Stupid A/V gremlins!

Ryan8bit

2011-01-28 10:37:49 am

Quote from ShinerCCC:

until then...someone crank out a level 18 run ;_;

Barring a perfect level 19 run already being done, a level 18 run would just be masochistic I think. I've started work on my simulator again (although does anyone care if you're already doing good runs?) and I totally reprogrammed it. It turns out that the best you can do against the Dragonlord is about a 1/8 chance at level 18 (and that's not counting just getting to him). To have gone almost 6 hours up to that point for a 1/8 chance seems like you'd have to brace yourself for some aggravation.

Sorry to hear about your audio.

mocliamtoh

2011-01-28 10:53:07 am

My name is unpronounceable

Quote from ShinerCCC:

Wow, I'm stupid...I JUST found out the 6 hour run I captured has no game audio beyond 4 minutes in. The rest is silence. Such a shame I can't submit this to SDA, the audio commentary is golden.

That's horrible. I was really looking forward to seeing it on SDA. Do you know what happened to it? I'd hate to see another run become unsubmittable because of something preventable.

I suppose I'll have to watch it on Youtube when you put it up.

Ryan8bit

2011-05-10 11:27:35 am

I have a question: If you were doing a single segment run for this, would it still be acceptable to save and reset if you died? It would only differ from a multi segment run in that it you would just accept that you died.

Also, Shiner, did you have a time breakdown for your run? I'm curious to see it to compare to my simulator and test out strategies.

ZenicReverie

2011-05-10 12:07:17 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Depending on how much time the death wasted, you run the risk of the run being rejected.

feasel

2011-05-11 03:05:17 am

difficult and stupidly random

Quote from Ryan8bit:

I have a question: If you were doing a single segment run for this, would it still be acceptable to save and reset if you died? It would only differ from a multi segment run in that it you would just accept that you died.

It sounds like that might be single-segment RTA (which i think we allow now).
But Zenic is right that losing a lot of time with an unintentional death will reduce your changes of getting accepted. Maybe if it was a calculated risk, like one of those situations where you choose a risky route that is still faster than the safe route even with a couple deaths. Dunno if that's the case here.

ShinerCCC

2011-05-11 11:35:41 am

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

I still have the raw footage for the run. I could put it on YouTube. What I wanted to do though, was save the audio commentary from it and overlay it onto the new run (if I ever get a chance to do it). 15 minutes of the audio commentary are missing for some reason so I can delete or replace part of that to make it fit whatever run I do next.

Ryan8bit

2011-05-11 03:20:55 pm

Cool, shiner. Even if you can't get the video up though, it would be helpful for me if you could just break down the times & activities. If you can't, no biggie. At some point, though, I'll probably be more heavily discussing strategy on the gamefaqs board. I'll bump this post whenever that should happen.

Quote from feasel:

Maybe if it was a calculated risk, like one of those situations where you choose a risky route that is still faster than the safe route even with a couple deaths.

Yep, that's basically what I'm getting at. I'm trying to calculate which risks are more acceptable for when to fight the Axe Knight. So if a trip to go fight him takes X amount of time at a 50% chance of success, you can probably expect the total amount of time it will take to be 2X, so the benefits of the Erdrick's Armor have to outweigh X.

Some of my preliminary numbers say that if you were to beat him at level 10 instead of level 14, the benefit of Erdrick's Armor alone (and not immediately going to get Erdrick's Sword) would be about 18 minutes. The problem is that the chances of doing so are very low at level 10, especially if you don't get the Silver Shield. And even getting the Silver Shield is kind of an ordeal at lower levels. So it would probably take more than 18 minutes of resetting to do. But I want to find the sweet spot on that curve between levels 10 and 14 where the average risk is acceptable, and I need to know if resetting is possible.

The only reason you'd want to reset in this case is because you're possibly hours in, and you've got 15k gold, and you can't just die or you'll lose half the gold and end up having to make the Cantlin run much later on, which would make you lose a lot of time. It may turn out to be more beneficial time-wise to reset, but I just wanted to know what the rules were here first so I could factor all of that in.

Cool, shiner.  Even if you can't get the video up though, it would be helpful for me if you could just break down the times & activities.  If you can't, no biggie.  At some point, though, I'll probably be more heavily discussing strategy on the gamefaqs board.  I'll bump this post whenever that should happen.

[quote="feasel"]Maybe if it was a calculated risk, like one of those situations where you choose a risky route that is still faster than the safe route even with a couple deaths.[/quote]

Yep, that's basically what I'm getting at.  I'm trying to calculate which risks are more acceptable for when to fight the Axe Knight.  So if a trip to go fight him takes X amount of time at a 50% chance of success, you can probably expect the total amount of time it will take to be 2X, so the benefits of the Erdrick's Armor have to outweigh X.

Some of my preliminary numbers say that if you were to beat him at level 10 instead of level 14, the benefit of Erdrick's Armor alone (and not immediately going to get Erdrick's Sword) would be about 18 minutes.  The problem is that the chances of doing so are very low at level 10, especially if you don't get the Silver Shield.  And even getting the Silver Shield is kind of an ordeal at lower levels.  So it would probably take more than 18 minutes of resetting to do.  But I want to find the sweet spot on that curve between levels 10 and 14 where the average risk is acceptable, and I need to know if resetting is possible.

The only reason you'd want to reset in this case is because you're possibly hours in, and you've got 15k gold, and you can't just die or you'll lose half the gold and end up having to make the Cantlin run much later on, which would make you lose a lot of time.  It may turn out to be more beneficial time-wise to reset, but I just wanted to know what the rules were here first so I could factor all of that in.

Darkwing Duck

2011-05-11 03:26:55 pm

Highly Evolved

A reset like that would be RTA which isn't allowed on the site currently.

Ryan8bit

2011-05-11 04:17:55 pm

That's unfortunate. And odd.

Darkwing Duck

2011-05-11 04:55:37 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from Ryan8bit:

That's unfortunate. And odd.

Not odd. Resetting the game no longer makes it a single segment run. Hard resetting is like restarting the game, which is against the spirit of turning the console on, pressing start, and playing through the game. If there was no hard reset, it wouldn't be a big deal, like taking a couple tries at the Dragonlord at level 17.

ZenicReverie

2011-05-11 06:37:36 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

This is all from my understanding of the discussions to allow RTAs:

An RTA (SS with save and loading) category might be added in some form in the future, but at this point is not in the rules. It is not meant to allow retrying of difficult or luck reliant areas of play. It is meant as a device to use strategies in play that are only possible when loading a save.

I'm sure we'll get a more official announcement from the staff once everything has been hammered out. In the meantime, go for the gold standard and supreme luck! Wink

Ryan8bit

2011-05-11 07:42:13 pm

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Resetting the game no longer makes it a single segment run. Hard resetting is like restarting the game, which is against the spirit of turning the console on, pressing start, and playing through the game. If there was no hard reset, it wouldn't be a big deal, like taking a couple tries at the Dragonlord at level 17.

It's not exactly a multi-segment run either though, is it? It's not like you're manipulating saves and not showing the outcomes where you die. It's a play-through in a single sitting.

Also, in DW it effectively isn't any different from just dying and trying again, at least in the situation you describe.

Quote from ZenicReverie:

This is all from my understanding of the discussions to allow RTAs:
It is not meant to allow retrying of difficult or luck reliant areas of play.

Well, that would rule out what I was getting at.

I think I'll just go forward with calculations for both.

dballin

2011-05-11 07:59:11 pm

Balls jerky

http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/final_fantasy_3__may_3rd_2011_15.html

Darkwing Duck

2011-05-13 05:13:11 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from Ryan8bit:

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Resetting the game no longer makes it a single segment run. Hard resetting is like restarting the game, which is against the spirit of turning the console on, pressing start, and playing through the game. If there was no hard reset, it wouldn't be a big deal, like taking a couple tries at the Dragonlord at level 17.

It's not exactly a multi-segment run either though, is it? It's not like you're manipulating saves and not showing the outcomes where you die. It's a play-through in a single sitting.

Also, in DW it effectively isn't any different from just dying and trying again, at least in the situation you describe.

Actually, it is, since the convention in the game world is that you lose half your gold when you die. You're resetting to keep from doing that.