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Highly Evolved
Ugh.  Getting my butt kicked today.  Can't even finish a segment 2.  Unlucky with numbness and inability to flee.
Highly Evolved
Guh...failure once again.

Keep dying between the first and second claws.  Upsetting.  Made more annoying by having to find another pattern in the casino. 
Highly Evolved
Over two years have passed since I last posted on this potential run.  First year was due to work, second year was lack of wanting to deal with converting VHS and possibly one other issue.

However, since I now have access to a DVD recorder, this is something I may want to return to.  There is that one other issue, though.  The TAS for the game has a record under one hour.  Most of it is due to random counter evasion, but there's a glitch he uses to further ease the game.

It's called the Dream Ruby glitch.  Seen here. 



Would this be an accepted glitch?  If so, a completely new route would have to be taken and my interest in doing such a glitch would make me ditch any attempt at doing a run.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
I had no idea what was going on watching that video, but that glitch is fine. It will probably be a separate category if it skips a big chunk of the game (looks like it does).
Not a walrus
Isn't that glitch ridiculously hard to manipulate and affected by the position of the music? Is it even possible to use that in real time?

And yes, the glitch in question skips like 70% of the game when done properly.
Highly Evolved
Quote from mikwuyma:
I had no idea what was going on watching that video, but that glitch is fine. It will probably be a separate category if it skips a big chunk of the game (looks like it does).


What it does is changes items in your inventory.  You can change regular items, like the mundane medical herb, into quest items, like the Final Key.  In the video, it changes a Wing of Wyvern into the Final Key.  I believe the TAS is shaved in half because of the glitch.  I believe it's more than just a sequence breaker.  If two different categories are accepted, then I still might pursue the run without that glitch.
Highly Evolved
Quote from UraniumAnchor:
Isn't that glitch ridiculously hard to manipulate and affected by the position of the music? Is it even possible to use that in real time?

And yes, the glitch in question skips like 70% of the game when done properly.


From what I read, all that it does is glitch the item number, which is determined by steps taken.  If five are taken after the reading, than the item is glitched 10 item slots lower.  7 steps is 14 item slots.  The Final Key is 10 slots below the Wing of Wyvern. 

You definitely can skip a good chunk of the game doing that.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Okay, the glitch is a separate category.
Highly Evolved
Now that two years have passed, I'm considering other options on the route taken.  I guess this is mostly for myself, but comments are of course welcome.

First off, since I have difficulty manipulating the casino because the battles seem to change every time I leave town, I'm considering making that part one segment.  I'd lose maybe a minute, minute and a half max walking back to the king, but I'm willing to do that.

There are metal babbles on the overworld, but I'm unsure of their spawn rate, and the island they're on has difficult enemies.  I'd have to do some testing on that to see if that would be a better option.

That island is near the final key, sailor's thigh bone and gate to Samanao, or better put, the northern part of North America.  Would I be able to take the time and, more importantly, the hits to level up to 20, get the Final Key, Thigh Bone and get to Samanao?  Keep in mind that I would not have a sage at this point and have limited healing capabilities.

I think what I would do is split up some things.  Final key and level up.  Drop merchant off and get to  Samanao, get Thigh Bone with Red Orb.  Let's specify.  I need the final key to get to Samanao.  Need to get to Samanao beat the Boss Troll to get the Staff of Change.  Need the Staff of Change to get the Thigh Bone. 

So, let's see.  Get pepper, walk to Dhama, *get book of Satori here?*  Get ship, warp to Aliahan, sail to Lancel, get invincibility herb, Warp to Portoga, Sail to Eginbear, get Vase of Drought.  Warp to Aliahan, sail to shoals, get Final Key, Level up on island.  No real problem there.  I can the Book of Satori anytime I want to under this scenario.  Not out of the way since I'm always saving in Dhama anyway. 
Also tenkiforecast
My thought is getting the Book of Satori would not be the smartest idea... after all, if the team is mainly melee fighters, the only benefit would be Twinhits from the mage, who you can class change without needing to make a detour to the Tower.  Plus, the Hero has healing spells.
However, I do see how relying on teh hero for healing is ungodly risky, and unless you want to level up on the Metalys in the Tower, the book would not be a huge detour.  Only other issue is changes of equipment.

There are overworld Metal Babbles before the dark world? That's a surprise...

Keep in mind though, my advice may be off because I play the GBC version...

As for the glitch...
Dear god separate category.  Getting the final key whenever you get a wing of wyvern/Wyvern's wing?  That... yikes.
Highly Evolved
Quote from yoshmaster5:
My thought is getting the Book of Satori would not be the smartest idea... after all, if the team is mainly melee fighters, the only benefit would be Twinhits from the mage, who you can class change without needing to make a detour to the Tower.  Plus, the Hero has healing spells.
However, I do see how relying on teh hero for healing is ungodly risky, and unless you want to level up on the Metalys in the Tower, the book would not be a huge detour.  Only other issue is changes of equipment.

There are overworld Metal Babbles before the dark world? That's a surprise...

Keep in mind though, my advice may be off because I play the GBC version...

As for the glitch...
Dear god separate category.  Getting the final key whenever you get a wing of wyvern/Wyvern's wing?  That... yikes.


Anytime anyone uses Dragon Quest terminology for a NES version, an angel dies.  Cry

Can't do the glitch until you get the Dream Ruby, which one would get, using similar segments to what I have posted so far, would be in segment 2 (or three, if one uses casino manipulation as one segment).  I don't know what the items are to glitch into the orbs and rainbow drop, but doing the glitch would mean all you have to do is get dream ruby, glitch final key, rainbow drop, and equipment, glitch/collect orbs, beat Baramos, beat Zoma. 

Here's the reasoning for my party.  I cannot avoid battle.  I also cannot run consistently, so I need to a party to defeat common enemies.  The most efficient way to do this with with fast, melee attacks.  Three fighters accomplish this.  However, I cannot survive the Necrogond, Rubiss' Tower, or Zoma's cave at low levels with that party, I need more healing than the Hero and herbs can provide.  Bikill is absolutely needed at low levels because of boss regeneration.  If bosses did not have that, than it would be more possible with just the fighter party.

I'm unsure of the encounter rate of metal babbles on the island they're on.  If it's infeasible, than I won't go that route.

Equipment is not a problem.  Given that I'm transferring from a Fighter, the Sage will have decent agility and strength at low levels.  He/She will have just the chain sickle at the beginning, and upgrades to the Zombie Killer soon afterward, or if I can't afford it, the Orochi Sword.  Defense is fairly minor given the agility.  I believe I buy a Silver Shield in Samanao if I have the cash.  Also possibly a Cloak of Evasion in Lancel.
100% runs=great to watch
Man...glitched and/or otherwise this would be a cool one to watch.  Best of luck is all I can say...may your critical hits flow quickly.  8)
Also tenkiforecast
I see your points.  If the Book of satori is that needed, go for it.
Plus, the aforementioned Metaly kills.

Either way, I can only say good luck.  DQ/DWIII can be very tough normally, so... good luck and prepare a sacrifice to the RNG gods.
Highly Evolved
Well, I've been waiting for an updated encounter list from a guy at Gamefaqs, and it shows a 2. something chance of a metal babble encounter at that spot.  And then Metal Babbles have either a 5/8 or 7/8 chance to run, and I'd need to crit it, which for fighters is level/256 and set at something like 7/128 for all other characters makes that likelyhood very slim.  Tower it is, then.  I'm going to have a Metal Slime encounter nearly 40% of the time on the fifth floor.
Also tenkiforecast
*nods*

Yeah, Metababbles are a royal pain to kill.
Besides, the Tower near Dhama not only has a good encounter rate for Metal Slimes, but spawns tons of them in encoutners.

I remember getting 7 at one point...
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
I'M GOING TO DO MY USUAL THING OF STATING THE OBVIOUS

1. Please just do this on GBC colour version just so you can walk faster. You'll save about 2 hours right there ;_;
2. Having fewer characters means less time inputting stuff in battle menus, and less time for each round to play out...combat could become shorter.
3. Bosses (maybe all monsters?) have either regeneration or a per-turn damage shield, not sure which. Basically, during my solo hero playthrough on NES, I could not down the Boss Troll no matter how long I fought and how much I cast Healall. But when I learned Lightning, I blasted him with it 3 times and I won just like that. My dificulties with the previous bosses suddenly became apparent. Baramos was literally impossible so I hired three goofballs to be packmules at first, but they went on to all become sages and help me destroy the rest of the game with ease. So, high damage is crucial.
4. Sell the Golden Claw for money? Sorry, I haven't read the entire thread yet.
5. I think the Dream Ruby glitch does not rely on memory content for the music; that's only for adding return locations, apparently. I just quickly read the summary on TASVideos. If you really want to glitch that, you'll probably have to practice it on emulator (while looking at memory to see how fast that address changes) and segment just the glitch. Practice it until you can do it by feel every time, use the force etc...unless it's frame perfect. Glitching items should be helpful enough really.
Highly Evolved
Quote from ShinerCCC:
I'M GOING TO DO MY USUAL THING OF STATING THE OBVIOUS

1. Please just do this on GBC colour version just so you can walk faster. You'll save about 2 hours right there ;_;


I don't like the GBC version as much.  Plus there's a lot of differences between the two.  Different exp. tables for bosses and characters, easier difficulty, etc.

Quote:
2. Having fewer characters means less time inputting stuff in battle menus, and less time for each round to play out...combat could become shorter.


Would also mean longer grinding to deal with problem number 3 on your list.  This is a low level run.  I understand the exp would be divided three ways and not four, but after the low twenties, fighters do not gain large level ups.  I'm fairly certain it would take a lot longer to get a three man party suited for all boss battles than the time saved from four man menu use.  Not to mention the longer normal battles.

Quote:
3. Bosses (maybe all monsters?) have either regeneration or a per-turn damage shield, not sure which. Basically, during my solo hero playthrough on NES, I could not down the Boss Troll no matter how long I fought and how much I cast Healall. But when I learned Lightning, I blasted him with it 3 times and I won just like that. My dificulties with the previous bosses suddenly became apparent. Baramos was literally impossible so I hired three goofballs to be packmules at first, but they went on to all become sages and help me destroy the rest of the game with ease. So, high damage is crucial.


Yes, anyone with any knowledge of the game knows bosses, Granite Titans, and I believe Putregons have regeneration.  Anyone speedrunning it has to know the amount, as well, at least at points were it's necessary to know.  Kandar ver. 2 has 25 regen. Orochi has 50, as does Boss Trolls.  Baramos, Zoma and his lackeys have 100.

Quote:
4. Sell the Golden Claw for money? Sorry, I haven't read the entire thread yet.


Only time gold is something I need to spend time getting is before the pyramid.  Plus low levels in the pyramid, no magic in the basement and higher encounter rates upon getting the claw make it useless in a speed run.

Quote:
5. I think the Dream Ruby glitch does not rely on memory content for the music; that's only for adding return locations, apparently. I just quickly read the summary on TASVideos. If you really want to glitch that, you'll probably have to practice it on emulator (while looking at memory to see how fast that address changes) and segment just the glitch. Practice it until you can do it by feel every time, use the force etc...unless it's frame perfect. Glitching items should be helpful enough really.


Different category.  I won't use it in the run I want to do.
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
I suggesting soloing the game at first (or maybe just using 2 characters) because those few will level up really fast...then later on, you can go back and Return to Aliahan, recruit some more level 1 guys, and then power level them in an advanced area. Maybe even that tower with Metal Slimes in it.

In any case, I really want to see this run materialize. It's a tough game.
Highly Evolved
I can get through every area without leveling until I get to Dhama, and thus the "tower with the Metal Slimes in it."
Talk to the Hand
I'd also like to suggest a run on the GBC version, but unlike everyone else, I have purely selfish motives for this. Unless you've found a way to beat the NES version in under ~95 minutes, in which case continue with your current plan Wink

More seriously though, good luck with this. III was always my favorite of the series.
Highly Evolved
Quote from Emptyeye:
I'd also like to suggest a run on the GBC version, but unlike everyone else, I have purely selfish motives for this. Unless you've found a way to beat the NES version in under ~95 minutes, in which case continue with your current plan Wink

More seriously though, good luck with this. III was always my favorite of the series.

The funny thing is, earlier today I was looking on the NES list and I said to myself, "Cool.  If I get this run done, I'll have the longest NES speedrun on the site.          By far."

Don't get your hopes up of anything near 95 minutes.  The non-Dream Ruby glitch TAS is 135, and he skips almost all battles and manipulates a casino trip.  Stuff I can't do.  Plus, running at low levels is quite difficult, so I have to fight most battles and take a couple of rounds to run from others. 
Talk to the Hand
Yeah, I understand completely. In my aborted Phantasy Star II attempts, I noted that certain monster groups were more difficult than others to run from. Essentially, as a matter of survival, if I didn't want to segment every 3 steps, there were certain groups that (As a matter of sanity preservation) I was better off just fighting even low-leveled than I was hoping to run and not get obliterated if i failed to do so.
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
Phantasy Star II speedrun? All I can think of is "AAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHH"
Feel free to ridicule and verbally abuse me if I'm about to say something dumb here, but don't Goof-Offs make running much easier?  I thought that was basically what they were there for prior to turning them into Sages.

If not, maybe that's just one more erroneous thing I read in Nintendo Power back in the good old days.
Highly Evolved
I didn't want to jinx it (maybe I still am), but I didn't want to post anything until I got past the part I quit at last time I tried recording a run.

However, the part I quit at last time, segment 2, due to frustrations with the monster arena, have been cleared.  I've broken it up into two segments, so I'm still in Romaly, but I have bunches of cash now.  All at 33 minutes played.

To update, my route remains pretty much the same, but I understand monster battles better now, so they're generally more efficient than the were before.  On my test run before recording, I got a final time of 5:37:55.  Could be different due to where SDA decides to start and end timing of each segment, but it is 18 minutes faster than what I was originally aiming for 2+ years ago.  Plus, three or four of those segments were really sloppy since I was accepting the first time I finished the segment, to see if I could do it with a few changes.  Hopefully I can gain another 8 minutes and finish sub 5:30.

Here are the different things I'm doing.  As mentioned, I split up my former segment 2 into two separate segments.  I'm also splitting up my former segment 4 into two segments, giving me 12 total.  Segment four was leveling, getting the ship and defeating Orochi once to get his sword.  Now, I'm getting the pepper, ship, stocking up to the brim on herbs in Lancel as well as staying at the inn in Lancel, getting the ship, returning to Dhama and saving.  Then in the next segment I'm doing the leveling at full health.  I can get to twenty much more consistently that way, making the segment faster.

I'm also going through the first couple of segments at lower levels.  I wanted to finish the first segment (getting to Romaly) at level 5 for the Hero.  I do it at level four in this run.  I also wanted to finish the segment where I get to Isis at level 9.  I was at level 7 during the practice run.  The caveat to this is that I must learn Return before leaving the Pyramid.  The hero naturally does so at level 7, but it can be delayed until level 8, so I want to make sure I'm at level 8 upon leaving the Pyramid.  I could just have a wing on hand, but level 7 is really difficult to get through the Pyramid as it is.  Doing it lower is not advised.

The one thing that hasn't changed is that I need to be at level 12 the segment before leveling (Pyramid through Kandar ver. 2, not the getting the ship one) so that I can survive the Tower long enough to get to level 20 in one shot.  I am likely to start the segment at a lower level, so I need to level up somewhere so that I'm to get to 12.  In my practice run, I did it on Catulas.  Once they sap all the hero's MP, their attack pattern is 50-50 attack/call reinforcements.  I can get to level 10-11 fairly quickly and can still beat Kandar with no magic and few herbs, so I take the time and do that.  Lengthens the segment a bit, but the quicker earlier segments still leave me ahead.

Segment 2, which I just recorded, looks cool, at least in my opinion.  I do some manipulation to get a 25.2 odds win which nets me 1000 gold.  It took longer than the practice run segment since it took longer to get a Spiked Hare/Poison Toad/Caterpillar/Magician fight.  I have to manipulate that a bit to get a Poison Toad win, but I was excited when I could reproduce it.

Here are my times so far.

Segment 1:

Target 2 years ago: 34:00
Practice run:          27:31
Recorded run:        27:09

Segment 2:
Target 2 years ago: N/A
Practice run:          4:08
Recorded run:        6:09

Segment 3:
Target 2 years ago: 37:00 (current seg. 2-3 combined)
Practice run:          22:37
Recorded run:        Not yet.

During my practice run, through Isis, I was just under 17 minutes under my original target time.  I lost a bunch going from Isis to Dhama because I had to gain a couple levels, about 8 minutes, but that was one segment that was sloppy (it was the first time I had survived the Pyramid), so I think I can lose a couple of minutes and still be at Level 12.




Note:  If anyone saw how long my comments were for my five minute, 12 second Tetris Attack run (please click the link in my sig for your viewing pleasure Cheesy ), you can only imagine how long my comments will be for a 5 hour, 12 minute run (plus a few minutes).