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Darkwing Duck: 2007-02-04 09:21:48 am
Highly Evolved
Yes.  Success. 

This segment 4 I'm much more satisfied with than my other practice segment 4s.  It was longer.  Here are the time stats.

Previous timed practice segment: 41:59.  Total Time:  2:38.11
Current timed pactice segment:  47:59.  Total Time: 2:37.00

Here's the difference.  In my previous run, I could not get to Lv. 20.  I am at this point.  This segment allowed me to get to Lv. 19 in the Tower of Garuna.  I made it out with one fighter at 5 HP.  I was about 4000 from Lv. 20, so about 1/3-1/4 of the way into Lv. 19.  Once you hit Lv. 16, fighters get insane strength boosts, 6-12.  I was lucky with two of them and got mostly 9+.  I can now two hit kill the worst enemy, the Garuda.  Sky Dragons are still an issue, but encounter rate is thankfully smaller.  At higher levels, the metal slimes themselves are the hardest hitter with their numbers and blaze. 

So I got out of the tower with 8 MP and returned to Portoga.  Healed, bought a wing.  Got the ship.  Used the wing to Dhama, sailed to Jipang.  One step in Jipang and then on to the cave.  Met about 1300 exp worth of enemies and took on Orochi.  One crit from a fighter.  Orochi used no breath.  Orochi down in one turn.  Did NOT level up.  Didn't have exp. chart memorized but knew fighter hit 20 at 45xxx.  Current fighters at 45xxx.  Not sure what to do after using Outside, I walk back in the cave.  Two Lave Bashers gave me about 240 and the level up.  Outside, Return to Dhama and I end the segment.

While it took me six minutes longer, I have the ship and the Orochi sword, and don't have to level up to 20 to get my sage as I did in the other timed practice segment 5.  My time for segment 5 was 38:03.  Cutting out the beginning of the segment puts sub 30 in the picture.  Add in the better route that Red_Scarlett suggested, and I should be way ahead at the end of this segment.

Segment 5 consists of getting the final key, dropping off the merchant, getting the final key, and ultimately killing the boss troll.  My route will be to change fighter to sage, warp to Aliahan, travel to Lancel, buy two Cloaks of Evasion, and Invisibility Herb, warp to Portoga, go to Eginbear, get Vase, go to Aliahan, drop off one fighter, pick up Merchant, go to shoals, get key, warp to Portoga, drop off Merchant, go to shrine to Samanao, go to Samanao, warp to Aliahan, pick up Fighter, warp to Lancel, go to Tedanki, get lamp, orb, and hopefully Zombie Slasher if I can afford it.  If not, keep chain sickle on her until Zecrogond and give her Orochi Sword once I get Thunder Sword. Go to Samanao, cave, Mirror of Ra, kill Boss Troll.

Lot to do, but I think thirty minutes isn't out of the question.
&quot;I like to watch&quot;
1 round kill on the Orochi? I need to play the NES version again sometime.  Did you fight 2nd Orochi?  Or are you going to do that later on at a higher level?
Highly Evolved
Very good here.  That route seems to be the best.  I did lose a character on the way to Samanao which caused a reset, but it's a solid route.

Previous timed segment 5:  38:03.  Total Time:  3:16.14
Current timed segment 5:  29:42.  Total Time: 3:04.42

I didn't have enough cash to get Zombie Slasher in Tedanki.  I was about 1200 short.  Fought enough enemies to and in the cave to get the mirror, so took the extra minute to buy one in Samanao. 

Segment 6 is the other levelling segment, adding the Sword of Gaia fetch quest at the end.  The levelling at Orochi is faster than at the volcano, so I level there until fighter Lv. 24/25.  This will allow me to tackle the Necrogond in Segment 7.   
Highly Evolved
1 round kill on the Orochi? I need to play the NES version again sometime.  Did you fight 2nd Orochi?  Or are you going to do that later on at a higher level?

Yep.  One round kill.  Average about 50-55 from each character.  Got 130 from a crit.  That's around 220 HP.  Orochi has base 300 HP.  I think the lowest number of HP an enemy can have is around 75-80% of the base HP.  75% of 300 is 225.  A little lucky.

The NES version has a glitch that I'm taking advantage of in the next segment.  If you use Outside after beating Orochi the first time and before falling in the warp hole, the first Orochi reappears.  Thus there's a guaranteed 2600 experience points that I can kill in 1-3 rounds.  I can level much faster here than the volcano since I also have some metal slime groups on the way to Orochi.  I can't start taking advantage of Orochi until around Lv. 18-19 because of Orochi regeneration and weak characters.  I can take full advantage now, and is much less dangerous than the volcano.  Plus there is an inn about 12 steps away from the cave entrance, as opposed to about 40 steps from the volcano to Assaram.
Edit history:
Darkwing Duck: 2007-02-05 06:28:56 am
Highly Evolved
All right, I'm stupid.  I forgot to add this segment 6 into the final time and total time in my previous timed run.  Fortunately, I still had the time so I had to readd everything.  The bad thing is that this is the longest segment.  So instead of the 5:26.01 I had, it's actually 6:13.52.

Onto the segment.  This one took longer than the practice.  I don't know why.  Maybe I had a few more slimes in the cave during my Orochi abuse.  Also, took an extra two, three minutes to get the red orb.  I think this may help me on segment 8, shortening one of the two shortest segments even more.  It's more efficient because I get that orb and go straight down to the wizard's cabin to get the thigh bone.  I didn't do that before I don't think.  I also made a quick stop in Reeve to buy a few medical herbs.  Either will use them in the Necrogond or save them and see how they do against Zoma.  Depends if I need them through the Necrogond.

Previous timed segment 6:  47:51.  Total Time:  4:04.05
Current timed segment 6:  52:18.  Total Time:  3:57.00

Still seven minutes ahead, with one segment to better, segment eight.  The next segment is the Necrogond, a pain at normal levels, hence one segment devoted to it.  I don't plan on gaining or losing any meaningful time.  If I gain time, it'll be due to fewer enemies, which I don't necessarily want.  I do need a few more levels for Zoma.  In my previous timed practice run, I got through with zero difficulty, which surprised the hell out of me.  Took a few tries on earlier tests, particularly due to Hologhost deaths.
Highly Evolved
All right, went through the Necrogond. 

Previous timed segment 7:  26:47.  Total Time: 4:30.52
Current timed segment 7:  29:26.  Total Time: 4:26.26

The extra time is strictly due to enemy encounters.  Fought a bunch on the final floor.  Was down to 1 MP and 10 MP for sage and hero respectively.  So I had no more magic available to me (8 for return).  I did lose about 10 seconds throwing away a club that a troll dropped.  Roll Eyes

The next segment should go fast.  Off to get yellow and blue orbs.  Already have silver, purple, green and red.
Edit history:
Darkwing Duck: 2007-02-05 11:38:41 pm
Highly Evolved
Well, with the time I've been able to shave off segments nine and ten, I can combine them into one.  That'll in the end give me a nice even ten segments.

Previous timed segment 8:  12:49.  Total Time: 4:43.41
Current timed segment 8:  8:50.  Total Time:  4:35.16

Getting yellow orb wasn't a problem, save the blue beak/witch doctor fight on one step out.  The blue orb also had little to go with it.  Did get ambushed by a simiac, though.  Got Ramia, returned to Dhama and saved.

Previous timed segment 9:  12:08.  Total Time:  4:55.49.
Current timed segment 9:  9:27.  Total Time:  4.44.43.

Bypassed the inn that I used at Assaram in the previous run.  I don't need much MP at Baramos' Castle.  My Baramos battle is simple.  I fight with fighter's and hero, and Sap with Sage in round run.  Now this run through, I failed with Sap, and then recast it second round and it worked, but I ended up dying.  Second time I went with the normal routine even though Sap failed. In the second round, I cast Bikill on Hero.  Third round I heal the neediest fellow with healmore.  I kill Baramos around Round 5 or 6.  Crits are very nice if Sap fail, which occurred here.  After battle I save at Aliahan, of course.

Alefgard breaks into two segments.  One is getting the Rainbow Drop, and two is Zoma.  My path for the Rainbow Drop is:

Go to Alefgard, get ship, go to Tantegel, get Stone of Sunlight, warp out to Tentegel, walk to Hauksness, buy Shield of Strength for Hero, equip, get Oricon, warp to Tantegel, sail to Kol, sell Oricon, return to Kol, rest at inn, get fairy flute, buy Sword of Kings.  Go to Rubiss' Tower, get amulet, warp to Hauksness, sail and get Staff of Rain.  Sail to shrine and get Rainbow Drop, sail and walk to Rimuldar, return to Dhama, save.

The tower is quite difficult at this stage.  Leonas are bad in particular.  I skip the Armor of Radiance.  I don't need it.  It's not really on the way, about 40-60 additional steps. 
Highly Evolved
Segment 10 was done.  A little slower than my other timed one.

Previous timed segment 10:  33:14.  Total Time:  5:29.03
Current timed segment 10:  36.45.  Total Time:  5:21.28

The three and a half minutes were again due to a high deal of enemies.  I should just run from the three slime, two healer, two slime snail combo around  Alefgard.  I can't get 'em all in one round, and I should be a high enough level to have no problem running.

I run from three Kragalcles.  No questions asked.  Did fail on one instance twice and lost a fighter, but had Vivify then.  Had to use it twice, so had the bare minimum MP when reaching Rimuldar to do two Returns.  I think I could maybe tighten it up a minute or so outside of the battles.
Highly Evolved
Oh the annoyances of this segment.  Never had as much difficulty.

Previous timed segment 11:  44:49.  Total Time:  6:13.52.
Current timed segment 11:  40:06.  Total Time: 6:01.28.

Worst enemy group is one Granite Titan and two Archmages.  Long time to kill, so I run.  However, running is difficult against Titans.  Oh how much death is wrought there.  Lots of things ended runs, Limbo from Troll Kings.  Terrible blows from titans.  Got my hero once for 200 dmg.  He had 198.  Putregons take a long time to kill, so I want to run from them.  Hero is very vulnerable.  Lost a few times due to their breath.  In this run, I did die to a Barog defeat, but Vivify worked on the first try.  Almost lost a character to Baramos Bonus, but made it through.  Hero did die to Zoma, but I used the Leaf from the treaure room.  My Sage's Stone fighter will attack if everyone is OK.  It's a little risky, but I need damage output. 

I also mapped out basement lv. 3.  I'll have to memorize the right button directions for the taped run.  Only hit about 12 pads, so not too hard.  I'll have to make sure where I am if I hit a random encounter on a pad.

On a side note, I almost never learn Healall for the hero at level 33.  That's where he ends.

All right, I think I'm ready to tape.  Shooting for sub 6 minutes.  I think I can lose a minute and a half in places.  Only nine seconds a segment.  Here are my targets.

Segment 1:  34:00.  I've done quicker, but this leaves me with the levels I need and decent cash.  If my hero isn't near level 5, I throw away the run.

Segment 2:  37:00.  I'll need to luck manipulate the monster battles.  I think I can do the masked moth at 10.0, but if I can find a magician at 18.0 vs. Humanabat and Killer Bee and win, then I'll do that.  I'll drive myself nuts, though, if I insist on that magician or anyone else in the caterpillar battle.

Segment 3:  39:30.  Pretty consistent in my runs land around here, so I'll want around this time.

Segment 4:  45:00.  Again, averaged out around here.  I need level 20 to continue on, and at least 40000 exp. for fighters coming out of the tower.  Forty-five minutes should be enough time to do it.

Segment 5:  30:00.  Should be able to do all the questing in 30 minutes.  I should shoot for 29, though.

Segment 6:  50:00  Levelling on Orochi and getting the Sword of Gaia.  All depends on how many slimes I can kill in the cave.  50 should be fine.

Segment 7:  28:00.  Necrogond.  Depends only on monster encounters.  28 is an average.

Segment 8:  17:00.  Combining Yellow and Blue Orb with Baramos.  Cutting off a save means time saved.

Segment 9:  35:00  Should be able to do this in 35 minutes. 

Segment 10:  40:00  Zoma goes down in this time. 

If I get those times exactly, it's 5:55.30.

Here's hopin'.
100% runs=great to watch
I wish you the best of fortune as you embark upon the final stages of this epic undertaking.  I will marathon watching this all willing.
&quot;I like to watch&quot;
After just a couple tries, the 3rd floor becomes automatic in how to move.  I used to tilt the controller to 'fix' the d-pad but then I saw a lot of it is just hitting right in order to move up.
Talk to the Hand
Additionally, at least on the GBA version (And I think the NES one too) the spots actually tell you which way you'll rotate if you look at them. Of course, getting into a random encounter on one may not be much fun.
Highly Evolved
The NES ones don't, they're just shaded differently on whether the control is shifted clockwise or counter-clockwise.

On another note, I have segment one recorded.

Took almost the whole tape.  Had about 5 or 6 resets.  My successful one had about three errors in menu operating, but it's pretty good I think otherwise.  Again, I'll post time up against my trial runs.

Target Time:  34:00
1st timed segment 1:  31:43
2nd timed segment 1:  34:18
Taped segment 1:  32:08

Excellent start.  Got enemies I could handle in the cave (Demon Anteaters), didn't get poisoned by babbles in the tower, and had a high encounter rate in the places I could handle them (to Reeve, to inn, first and second floor).  I'm at a good level, 5 and 4, with the hero only 27 from 5.  Great start I think.
Highly Evolved
Ugh, this is as frustrating as I suspected it to be.

Can't find the big battle win.  I need the gold.  Can't find the luck manipulation.  I did find a Spiked Hare and a Poison toad win vs. caterpillar, but I haven't been able to reproduce either.  I don't have the RNG figured fully out.

I do think that the RNG is used A LOT.  I think it affects NPC's movement.  If I move optimally to the inn and then the casino, here's how it goes:  in throne room, bard moves up once.  In town, man on left turns north into the wall, kid moves up, right, up.  Inn.  After inn, kid moves up, man moves right, soldier and man move down at same time, soldier moves right, up, left, left against wall.  I can manipulate to get a magician-humanabat-killer bee where the bee wins (same attack pattern for all monsters).  I can get the four spiked hares which does me no good. 

I'm wondering if the RNG resets completely upon going up the stairs.  There aren't any uses for RNG in the casino.  All NPC's don't move.  You have to leave to get a new battle.

I'll keep at it.  Once I find something, I can record, but I can't until then.
&quot;I like to watch&quot;
I saw that term in the FF9 or FF10 thread, but nowhere else.  So what does RNG stand for?
Edit history:
nate: 2007-02-13 07:57:55 am
random number generator.

(why the hell am i in this topic?)
Highly Evolved
random number generator.

(why the hell am i in this topic?)

Because I know you want to see this run. Wink
新世紀進歩的羽扇子 音楽
random number generator.

(why the hell am i in this topic?)

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.


Now what am I doing here...?
Talk to the Hand
random number generator.

(why the hell am i in this topic?)

What everyone else said--that whole "Metroid2K2" thing is just a know, and I know, that Dragon Warrior speedruns are where it's at. Wink
Also tenkiforecast
not much I could say... I don't know the RNG in this series, even if I've only played the remakes.

ALl I can say, is keep at it! Everything takes a while... *points to a comment on the Deus Ex: Invisible War run* one segment took 128 tries. Just keep trying.
Highly Evolved
ugh.  I've found a new thing that hinders me.

The battle arena resets.

When, I don't know.  What happens is when I actually leave Romaly after abusing the arena, and play and not finish the segment (character deaths both times), the same sequence that I use to get to the arena yields a different battle.

I guess this means that each time I lose out in the field, a common thing, I have to find yet another pattern.  What I'm going to do is instead of trying to find another big win, I'll just manipulate wins at lower odds.  The battles will all end up the same due to the RNG, so I can manipulate some there.  I won't lose too much much time and still come close to my goal. 
Talk to the Hand
Hmm. Is it the same different battle every time? Does that battle, if it is the same, always have the same outcome?
Highly Evolved
Yes, and yes.  So the RNG doesn't reset, just the arena battles. 
Highly Evolved
Work has taken my life for the past couple of weeks and is continuing to do so and will do so for the next week.  I'm hoping to maybe have a chance on Wednesday to work on this. 
Also tenkiforecast
Don't worry, I know how you feel in a way. *ACT Prep and Extra-cirriculars suck* Keep trying, I'm sure you'll make it!