Dragon Warrior I - GBC edition run.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-06-03 04:09:27 pm

2007-06-03 03:58:13 am

Never give up!

Okay.

So I'm about to switch my Gamecube over to my recording setup and put the PS2 near the big TV instead pretty soon (my setup only allows two systems to be hooked up for recording, my PC's hooked up to it full-time, and I've had the PS2 there for a long while) so I can do something recording-wise with Dragon Warrior Monsters.

Since no one else has tried it in a while, and we've yet to have a run on the game, I've debating doing a run of the GBC version of Dragon Warrior I. Note that I'd only run the first one - I doubt I'd ever run the second game even if I were paid to do it.

Now, the only version of the first Dragon Warrior that I have is the GBC dual-pack (Dragon Warrior I & II). So that's what I'd run. In return for putting people through the easy version of the game, I'd rather do an SS - I feel that this game does NOT lend itself well to a good segmented run because of where the only real save point is (yes, I know of the Field Log - no, I do not think it is a proper segmenting method). There will either be death abuse or the use of Warp Wings, I don't know which. Once at least.

Here's differences I know about with the NES/GBC versions:
-Any 'Erdrick' equipment is renamed 'Loto' equipment.
-Some spell names have changed.
-An opening cutscene exists - would the timer start at the beginning or end of that? Because I don't think it's properly skippable.
-The Bamboo Pole is now a one-handed weapon - I recall it being a two-handed weapon in other versions, meaning no shield. This difference will be important later.
-You can actually throw Torches at enemies in the GBC version - only useful REALLY early on though.
-Goldmen drop WAY more money - something like three, four, or maybe even five times as much as in the NES version.
-I think keys are cheaper as well.
-I believe some spells got amped up.

Based on some of these, it is my firm belief that a run of the GBC version will also be faster than any run of the NES version.

Now, here's what I'm thinking for early on. My first purchases will be a Bamboo Pole, a Leather Shield, and a Dragon Scale (which I believe is about equal with Cloth Armor). With this equipment I feel safe enough fighting Dracky enemies instead of just relying on both Slime varieties. After the first levelup, I'll keep a Torch or two handy in case I fight a Spooky. I then plan on going to the northwest town (I don't track names well). Here is where my base of operations will be for a large chunk of the game. I don't venture into the harder enemy territory further south until I have the Firebal spell ('HURT' in other versions), which can take those enemies out in one hit.

That's all I can think of so far. Would like ideas from Dragon Warrior gurus after that. Don't give me TAS ideas though - there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY I am even TRYING that kind of luck.

Some things to keep in mind:
-I WILL NOT buy the Flame Sword. The Steel Sword (or Broad Sword, depending on who you ask) serves my needs fine until I get Loto's Sword.
-I MIGHT consider skipping the Silver Shield because of its absurd cost. Unless people have ideas for me getting it.
-Pretty much guaranteed to skip the War Ring - I've never noticed any difference with it and I need the inventory slot.
-I'm skipping the Magic Armor for sure - the Steel Armor (Full Plate) should be enough until I can get Loto's Armor.
-I won't even attempt to take on the Dragonlord without the Healmore spell. So no lower than level 17. I figure my final level will be closer to 20 because some battles are very very difficult at low levels.

Also, I heard something about name arithmetic. Apparently (maybe it's just in the NES version) your stats grow a certain way depending on the name you enter. There's an entire FAQ on this (in the GameFAQs guides for the NES version), but here's two examples:
-The name "Alex" (my real first name) gives a number total of 24 according to that guide. Divided by 16, the remainder is 8, and growth number 8 gives pretty good starting stats, with Strength and HP growing a bit faster and Agility and MP growing a bit slower with levelups.
-Using "AT" (one thing people tend to call me here) instead gives a number total of 11. We can use that directly. Growth number 11 starts a little weak, but with decent HP (and decent MP once spells become available), and from there HP and MP grow faster while Strength and Agility grow slower.

If any of you examine that guide (it's the guide by 'akira slime'), PLEASE tell me what growth number you think would be best for a speedrun. I can come up with a character name that way.

Thread title:

Okay.

So I'm about to switch my Gamecube over to my recording setup and put the PS2 near the big TV instead pretty soon (my setup only allows two systems to be hooked up for recording, my PC's hooked up to it full-time, and I've had the PS2 there for a long while) so I can do something recording-wise with Dragon Warrior Monsters.

Since no one else has tried it in a while, and we've yet to have a run on the game, I've debating doing a run of the GBC version of Dragon Warrior I.  Note that I'd only run the first one - I doubt I'd ever run the second game even if I were paid to do it.

Now, the only version of the first Dragon Warrior that I have is the GBC dual-pack (Dragon Warrior I & II).  So that's what I'd run.  In return for putting people through the easy version of the game, I'd rather do an SS - I feel that this game does NOT lend itself well to a good segmented run because of where the only real save point is (yes, I know of the Field Log - no, I do not think it is a proper segmenting method).  There will either be death abuse or the use of Warp Wings, I don't know which.  Once at least.

Here's differences I know about with the NES/GBC versions:
-Any 'Erdrick' equipment is renamed 'Loto' equipment.
-Some spell names have changed.
-An opening cutscene exists - would the timer start at the beginning or end of that?  Because I don't think it's properly skippable.
-The Bamboo Pole is now a one-handed weapon - I recall it being a two-handed weapon in other versions, meaning no shield.  This difference will be important later.
-You can actually throw Torches at enemies in the GBC version - only useful REALLY early on though.
-Goldmen drop WAY more money - something like three, four, or maybe even five times as much as in the NES version.
-I think keys are cheaper as well.
-I believe some spells got amped up.

Based on some of these, it is my firm belief that a run of the GBC version will also be faster than any run of the NES version.

Now, here's what I'm thinking for early on.  My first purchases will be a Bamboo Pole, a Leather Shield, and a Dragon Scale (which I believe is about equal with Cloth Armor).  With this equipment I feel safe enough fighting Dracky enemies instead of just relying on both Slime varieties.  After the first levelup, I'll keep a Torch or two handy in case I fight a Spooky.  I then plan on going to the northwest town (I don't track names well).  Here is where my base of operations will be for a large chunk of the game.  I don't venture into the harder enemy territory further south until I have the Firebal spell ('HURT' in other versions), which can take those enemies out in one hit.

That's all I can think of so far.  Would like ideas from Dragon Warrior gurus after that.  Don't give me TAS ideas though - there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY I am even TRYING that kind of luck.

Some things to keep in mind:
-I WILL NOT buy the Flame Sword.  The Steel Sword (or Broad Sword, depending on who you ask) serves my needs fine until I get Loto's Sword.
-I MIGHT consider skipping the Silver Shield because of its absurd cost.  Unless people have ideas for me getting it.
-Pretty much guaranteed to skip the War Ring - I've never noticed any difference with it and I need the inventory slot.
-I'm skipping the Magic Armor for sure - the Steel Armor (Full Plate) should be enough until I can get Loto's Armor.
-I won't even attempt to take on the Dragonlord without the Healmore spell.  So no lower than level 17.  I figure my final level will be closer to 20 because some battles are very very difficult at low levels.

Also, I heard something about name arithmetic.  Apparently (maybe it's just in the NES version) your stats grow a certain way depending on the name you enter.  There's an entire FAQ on this (in the GameFAQs guides for the NES version), but here's two examples:
-The name "Alex" (my real first name) gives a number total of 24 according to that guide.  Divided by 16, the remainder is 8, and growth number 8 gives pretty good starting stats, with Strength and HP growing a bit faster and Agility and MP growing a bit slower with levelups.
-Using "AT" (one thing people tend to call me here) instead gives a number total of 11.  We can use that directly.  Growth number 11 starts a little weak, but with decent HP (and decent MP once spells become available), and from there HP and MP grow faster while Strength and Agility grow slower.

If any of you examine that guide (it's the guide by 'akira slime'), PLEASE tell me what growth number you think would be best for a speedrun.  I can come up with a character name that way.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-06-04 01:39:03 am

2007-06-04 01:37:36 am

Never give up!

....wow.

And here I was thinking people wanted to see a run of Dragon Warrior. Is there something about this version that turns people off? Or do I have things more in hand than I realize?

Anyway, other notes:
-I'm skipping my chance to save the princess.
-I MIGHT be persuaded into getting the Silver Shield based on the fact that one of the best experience areas happens to be right around the town with the Silver Shield (the other is right inside Dragonlord's Fortress). This means I'll have to pick up the Pixy Flute (in the GBC version it seems to ONLY work on the Golem). Flame Sword's still a no-no however.
-Should I hang on to the Shiny Harp and use it to build levels a bit faster, or should I trade it in for the Rain Staff immediately?
-The Sleep spell makes some of the harder enemies - especially Star Wyverns - manageable.
-However, Sleep doesn't seem to work on MadKnight, meaning I have to wait a bit before I can face him. Level 15 at earliest.

Anyway, I'm starting to think that instead of going to the northwest town (Garinham in this version) after the first levelup, maybe I should go to the northeast town (Kol in this version) instead. I'm closer to my next objective that way.

....wow.

And here I was thinking people wanted to see a run of Dragon Warrior.  Is there something about this version that turns people off?  Or do I have things more in hand than I realize?

Anyway, other notes:
-I'm skipping my chance to save the princess.
-I MIGHT be persuaded into getting the Silver Shield based on the fact that one of the best experience areas happens to be right around the town with the Silver Shield (the other is right inside Dragonlord's Fortress).  This means I'll have to pick up the Pixy Flute (in the GBC version it seems to ONLY work on the Golem).  Flame Sword's still a no-no however.
-Should I hang on to the Shiny Harp and use it to build levels a bit faster, or should I trade it in for the Rain Staff immediately?
-The Sleep spell makes some of the harder enemies - especially Star Wyverns - manageable.
-However, Sleep doesn't seem to work on MadKnight, meaning I have to wait a bit before I can face him.  Level 15 at earliest.

Anyway, I'm starting to think that instead of going to the northwest town (Garinham in this version) after the first levelup, maybe I should go to the northeast town (Kol in this version) instead.  I'm closer to my next objective that way.

Emptyeye

2007-06-04 02:11:53 am

Talk to the Hand

I think you have things pretty well in hand, actually. Just note that the Dragonlord's Castle layout is a bit different in the GBC version as opposed to the NES.

I seem to remember getting super lucky on the Axe Knight (MadKnight) and getting Loto's armor at some stupidly low level in the GBC version thanks to the critical hit. You should be able to pull it off at a lower level than 15, I would think.

Note also that besides Goldmen dropping way more cash, the game as a whole is more generous with both experience and gold than the NES version, so the Flame Sword and Silver Shield may notbe as out of your reach as you think.

I seem to remember you being able to FIND what the GBC equivilent of Half Plate Armor would be in a chest somewhere, but I may have imagined that.

AquaTiger

2007-06-04 02:49:18 am

Never give up!

Well, a recent time when I tried to fight him at a lower level, I did some playing around with strategies. That playing around was probably my point of failure. Maybe with a no-nonsense combat strategy (heal when two hits away from death, otherwise attack) I can get it sooner.

As far as gold to buy Flame Sword and Silver Shield - I wouldn't be surprised, though when I wrote that stuff, it was after a play session where I'd died a few times and lost over 7000 gold. But the game's more generous with experience too? THAT I need to look at to believe.

I also need to investigate whether that free suit of Iron Armor (judging from stats, that's probably the Half Plate equivalent) exists. Note that there's definitely some stat boosters in random vases and dressers that I'll get, as a few of them pretty much equals a levelup.

getter77

2007-06-04 03:00:52 am

100% runs=great to watch

Heh, maybe everbody was busy watching the debate on CNN tonight? Wink

But yeah, I'm interested as well as lots of folk in seeing this. Like many times though, you kick more ass than you might realize....hence there's nothing much most folk can say. I've only experience with the NES version, and no amazing skill at that.

:turns on the Red_Scarlet signal and gazes at the rooftops:

snorlax

2007-06-04 03:59:29 am

zzzzzzzzzz

Quote:

....wow.

And here I was thinking people wanted to see a run of Dragon Warrior. Is there something about this version that turns people off? Or do I have things more in hand than I realize?

Anyway, other notes:
-I'm skipping my chance to save the princess.
-I MIGHT be persuaded into getting the Silver Shield based on the fact that one of the best experience areas happens to be right around the town with the Silver Shield (the other is right inside Dragonlord's Fortress). This means I'll have to pick up the Pixy Flute (in the GBC version it seems to ONLY work on the Golem). Flame Sword's still a no-no however.
-Should I hang on to the Shiny Harp and use it to build levels a bit faster, or should I trade it in for the Rain Staff immediately?
-The Sleep spell makes some of the harder enemies - especially Star Wyverns - manageable.
-However, Sleep doesn't seem to work on MadKnight, meaning I have to wait a bit before I can face him. Level 15 at earliest.

Anyway, I'm starting to think that instead of going to the northwest town (Garinham in this version) after the first levelup, maybe I should go to the northeast town (Kol in this version) instead. I'm closer to my next objective that way.

I'm very interested in this run, but I don't know the differences between the Nintendo and GBC versions. A few comments:

-I don't see any benefit to saving the princess.
-If money is easy to come by, the Silver Shield might make surviving the final trek easier.
-The Flute isn't a huge sidetrack if necessary. Most items aren't in this game.
-In the Nintendo version the Silver Harp only attracts minor enemies, even in the southern areas. It clearly wouldn't be useful if this is still the case.
-I recommend Stopspell on the "MadKnight" if the battle is similar to the NES battle.

[quote]....wow.

And here I was thinking people wanted to see a run of Dragon Warrior.  Is there something about this version that turns people off?  Or do I have things more in hand than I realize?

Anyway, other notes:
-I'm skipping my chance to save the princess.
-I MIGHT be persuaded into getting the Silver Shield based on the fact that one of the best experience areas happens to be right around the town with the Silver Shield (the other is right inside Dragonlord's Fortress).  This means I'll have to pick up the Pixy Flute (in the GBC version it seems to ONLY work on the Golem).  Flame Sword's still a no-no however.
-Should I hang on to the Shiny Harp and use it to build levels a bit faster, or should I trade it in for the Rain Staff immediately?
-The Sleep spell makes some of the harder enemies - especially Star Wyverns - manageable.
-However, Sleep doesn't seem to work on MadKnight, meaning I have to wait a bit before I can face him.  Level 15 at earliest.

Anyway, I'm starting to think that instead of going to the northwest town (Garinham in this version) after the first levelup, maybe I should go to the northeast town (Kol in this version) instead.  I'm closer to my next objective that way.[/quote]

I'm very interested in this run, but I don't know the differences between the Nintendo and GBC versions.  A few comments:

-I don't see any benefit to saving the princess.
-If money is easy to come by, the Silver Shield might make surviving the final trek easier.
-The Flute isn't a huge sidetrack if necessary.  Most items aren't in this game.
-In the Nintendo version the Silver Harp only attracts minor enemies, even in the southern areas.  It clearly wouldn't be useful if this is still the case.
-I recommend Stopspell on the "MadKnight" if the battle is similar to the NES battle.

Cygnus

2007-06-04 04:54:34 am

Ben Goldberg

I'm interested in seeing this also, but I don't have anything to add to the conversation. But if you're wondering if people want to see this run, I know I do.

Red_Scarlet

Edit history:

Red_Scarlet: 2007-06-04 12:37:58 pm

2007-06-04 12:36:26 pm

"I like to watch"

Enemies give way more experience and more gold in this than the NES version.

IIRC, those blue Wolf guys give 16 in the NES one and 40 in the remake. Metal Slimes give about 115 in the NES one and over 700 in the remake. Those blue Knight guys gave 33 in the NES one and I think give 76 in the remake. Pretty much aside from Slimes, Red Slimes, Drakees, and Ghosts, probably every other enemy gives more experience and gold.

There is no point to rescuing the princess, but you will want to fight the dragon guarding her since it gives you a lot of experience.

Goldmen drop 500+ gold instead of 150 max.

Some monsters do slightly different things as well. In the NES version, Red Dragons like to cast the sleep spell, while in the remake, they seem to use stopspell instead.

Check a guide for the NES version and GBC version to see the difference in xp/$.

Good luck!

yoshmaster5

2007-06-04 09:05:43 pm

Also tenkiforecast

Well, I say good luck. I loved the DW series. ^_^

It'd be a VERY interesting run to watch... with the difficulty of the game.

Ranti84

2007-06-04 09:53:17 pm

the Watching Shadow

I'd be VERY interested in seeing this run :). I've played through most of the NES version and it definitely seems like the GC version is a lot easier. It's been a long time since I played so I don't remember much :\. However, I think the bamboo staff was one handed in the NES version. I remember getting cloth, bamboo pole and shield when I usually start.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-06-05 05:27:37 am

2007-06-05 04:31:17 am

Never give up!

Okay.

I think it will be a smarter idea to fight the Dragonlord at level 18 rather than level 17. You get a very big Strength and HP boost at level 18 no matter what growths you picked (each is in the double digits). I'll gain the last one, however, in Dragonlord's Fortress itself - with the Loto Armor, Silver Shield (which I'm WAY more inclined to get now), and some Herbs I shouldn't need to use too much magic. (My main levelling spot until I get all the needed equipment will be in the desert around the ruined town - I can encounter Goldmen there, and the occasional one of those will more than offset the more consistent loss of money elsewhere. After that I level around the walled city or maybe in the upper floors of the fortress.)

While we're on growths, I think the name of 'Alex' will be fine. That one point of Strength and Agility I lose (compared to '!', the name the TAS crew uses - all things are the same otherwise) is, IMO, not as much of a big deal as I originally made it out to be.

As far as monsters - when comparing bestiaries in FAQs of the two versions, I note that the differences start as low as Drackys. In the NES version they give 2 EXP and 3 gold, in the GBC version they give 3 EXP and 6 gold. (It's a difference of one fight for the first levelup, for instance.)

Edit: Okay, I just beat the game again. And I barely beat Dracolord at level 19 with the help of one critical hit. (They gave Dracolord nearly triple the HP in this version, to make up for the faster levelling.) And level 20 provides a big magic boost. I'm thinking it may be better to fight within Dracolord's Fortress until hitting level 20, then going out and right back in to increase my chances of survival.

Okay.

I think it will be a smarter idea to fight the Dragonlord at level 18 rather than level 17.  You get a very big Strength and HP boost at level 18 no matter what growths you picked (each is in the double digits).  I'll gain the last one, however, in Dragonlord's Fortress itself - with the Loto Armor, Silver Shield (which I'm WAY more inclined to get now), and some Herbs I shouldn't need to use too much magic.  (My main levelling spot until I get all the needed equipment will be in the desert around the ruined town - I can encounter Goldmen there, and the occasional one of those will more than offset the more consistent loss of money elsewhere.  After that I level around the walled city or maybe in the upper floors of the fortress.)

While we're on growths, I think the name of 'Alex' will be fine.  That one point of Strength and Agility I lose (compared to '!', the name the TAS crew uses - all things are the same otherwise) is, IMO, not as much of a big deal as I originally made it out to be.

As far as monsters - when comparing bestiaries in FAQs of the two versions, I note that the differences start as low as Drackys.  In the NES version they give 2 EXP and 3 gold, in the GBC version they give 3 EXP and 6 gold.  (It's a difference of one fight for the first levelup, for instance.)

Edit: Okay, I just beat the game again.  And I barely beat Dracolord at level 19 with the help of one critical hit.  (They gave Dracolord nearly triple the HP in this version, to make up for the faster levelling.)  And level 20 provides a big magic boost.  I'm thinking it may be better to fight within Dracolord's Fortress until hitting level 20, then going out and right back in to increase my chances of survival.

inichi

Edit history:

inichi: 2007-06-05 02:34:26 pm

2007-06-05 01:53:52 pm

I'm also one of those who are very interested in this run because I'm a big fan of Dragon Warrior and have beaten all numbered Dragon Warrior series. For now, I paste the link to the report about the Japanese record for a SS run of Dragon Warrior 1(SNES) at Ultimagarden.

http://ultimagarden.net/report/mitsukan_dq1_rta2.txt

The time he beat the Dragonlord is 1:34.46. From what I've seen, main points of his strategy is two.

1. Fight the Dragon guarding the princess 9 times to get a lot of EXPs in a short time. This is done by making use of the fact that it comes back to life if you die before you deliver her to the castle.

2. Fight the Dragonlord at Lv17, hoping to get a critical hit once in that battle.

As for the naming of the hero, aaai is well used in a speed run for Dragon Warrior 1 in Japan because of the high growth of the status. However, if you name him aaai, you may not get the expected high growth because the alrphabet and the Japanese syllabary are completely different. Even though I have no idea about the difference between SNES and GBC because I have never played the GBC version, the way I see it, sub 2:00 is an achievable number.

Good luck on your run.

I'm also one of those who are very interested in this run because I'm a big fan of Dragon Warrior and have beaten all numbered Dragon Warrior series. For now, I paste the link to the report about the Japanese record for a SS run of Dragon Warrior 1(SNES) at Ultimagarden.

http://ultimagarden.net/report/mitsukan_dq1_rta2.txt

The time he beat the Dragonlord is 1:34.46. From what I've seen, main points of his strategy is two.

1. Fight the Dragon guarding the princess 9 times to get a lot of EXPs in a short time. This is done by making use of the fact that it comes back to life if you die before you deliver her to the castle.
 
2. Fight the Dragonlord at Lv17, hoping to get a critical hit once in that battle.

As for the naming of the hero, [i]aaai[/i] is well used in a speed run for Dragon Warrior 1 in Japan because of the high growth of the status. However, if you name him aaai, you may not get the expected high growth because the alrphabet and the Japanese syllabary are completely different. Even though I have no idea about the difference between SNES and GBC because I have never played the GBC version, the way I see it, sub 2:00 is an achievable number.

Good luck on your run.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-06-06 03:02:38 am

2007-06-05 02:37:26 pm

Never give up!

Hmmmm....

The levels thing might be tempting (a bit risky in an SS, but it's done there so I can consider trying it), but you're telling me that in order for the Dragon to respawn, you have to die before you deliver the princess? I may not be able to use that trick if I decide not to abuse death. (Which mainly means more time in Dracolord's Fortress levelling up, and probably leaving and re-entering it once.)

Now, since you said SNES, I looked on GameFAQs to see if that was a typo. I found that the Japanese SNES and American GBC versions appear to be the exact same (both are compilations of the first two games and both have the same EXP/gold charts for enemies - the naming convention of monsters and places is the only real difference, though that may make the Japanese SNES version slightly faster), so if I can translate the whole thing I MIGHT have a good reference. (For instance, I want to know whether THAT runner gets the Flame Sword and Silver Shield. His MadKnight strategy might help too.)

(By the way, trying to use 'aaai' in the American version has some of the worst starting stats but it uses the most favorable growth chart for a speedrun. I do, however, have a name I plan to use - "AGUA" - and yes, that's in all caps.)

Hmmmm....

The levels thing might be tempting (a bit risky in an SS, but it's done there so I can consider trying it), but you're telling me that in order for the Dragon to respawn, you have to die before you deliver the princess?  I may not be able to use that trick if I decide not to abuse death.  (Which mainly means more time in Dracolord's Fortress levelling up, and probably leaving and re-entering it once.)

Now, since you said SNES, I looked on GameFAQs to see if that was a typo.  I found that the Japanese SNES and American GBC versions appear to be the exact same (both are compilations of the first two games and both have the same EXP/gold charts for enemies - the naming convention of monsters and places is the only real difference, though that may make the Japanese SNES version slightly faster), so if I can translate the whole thing I MIGHT have a good reference.  (For instance, I want to know whether THAT runner gets the Flame Sword and Silver Shield.  His MadKnight strategy might help too.)

(By the way, trying to use 'aaai' in the American version has some of the worst starting stats but it uses the most favorable growth chart for a speedrun.  I do, however, have a name I plan to use - "AGUA" - and yes, that's in all caps.)

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-06-06 04:23:01 am

2007-06-06 03:38:30 am

Never give up!

Okay. So a short test has determined the following strategy so far:
-Bamboo Pole, Leather Shield, and Dragon Scale at the beginning. They doubled the defense boost of the Dragon Scale in this version.
-I can go hunt Drackies right away, but I can only kill one of them at level 1 because my main weapon isn't strong enough to consistently damage them (to kill one I must use the Torch).
-I do not try to reach Kol until level 4 - in the meantime, I save up enough for Leather Armor.
-Once I can reach Kol (and get the Pixy Flute there), I will farm enemies (preferably Scorpions) in that area using Firebal (gotten at level 4, which is why I must wait) until I can acquire the Iron Axe. The eastern tip can be done at later levels - Skeletons take two Firebals to kill and give the experience and gold of two MagDrackys.
-After getting the Iron Axe, I should have enough levels to go to the southern island. There, I will farm enemies until I can afford eight keys (two will be used at the inn to snag a Life Acorn, because every stat booster helps), the Steel Sword, and the Steel Armor (will see if I have enough strength by then to farm Goldmen). Then I save 800 gold and use a Warp Wing (in a dresser in the same town with the keys) to get back to the castle, go to Garinham and get an Iron Shield. I should have enough power to go after the Silver Harp then.

Note that I'm going to make it a point of pride not to die in this run. So any death strategies can be left at home.

Okay.  So a short test has determined the following strategy so far:
-Bamboo Pole, Leather Shield, and Dragon Scale at the beginning.  They doubled the defense boost of the Dragon Scale in this version.
-I can go hunt Drackies right away, but I can only kill one of them at level 1 because my main weapon isn't strong enough to consistently damage them (to kill one I must use the Torch).
-I do not try to reach Kol until level 4 - in the meantime, I save up enough for Leather Armor.
-Once I can reach Kol (and get the Pixy Flute there), I will farm enemies (preferably Scorpions) in that area using Firebal (gotten at level 4, which is why I must wait) until I can acquire the Iron Axe.  The eastern tip can be done at later levels - Skeletons take two Firebals to kill and give the experience and gold of two MagDrackys.
-After getting the Iron Axe, I should have enough levels to go to the southern island.  There, I will farm enemies until I can afford eight keys (two will be used at the inn to snag a Life Acorn, because every stat booster helps), the Steel Sword, and the Steel Armor (will see if I have enough strength by then to farm Goldmen).  Then I save 800 gold and use a Warp Wing (in a dresser in the same town with the keys) to get back to the castle, go to Garinham and get an Iron Shield.  I should have enough power to go after the Silver Harp then.

Note that I'm going to make it a point of pride not to die in this run.  So any death strategies can be left at home.

Red_Scarlet

Edit history:

Red_Scarlet: 2007-06-06 08:09:38 am

2007-06-06 08:08:50 am

"I like to watch"

Quote:

Hmmmm....

(For instance, I want to know whether THAT runner gets the Flame Sword and Silver Shield. His MadKnight strategy might help too.)

What I can read from it, this is the player's route plan and when he/she gets to each point (looks like the times are from power on and then play time) and level:

Power On 0:00:00
Get to Rimuldar 0:09:37(Lv 5)
Dragon (1st kill) 0:40:03(Lv 9)
Dragon (9th kill) 1:05:23(Lv14)
Get Silver Harp 1:10:33(Lv15)
Fight Devil Knight/MadKnight 1:12:24(Lv15)
Get Rainbow Drop 1:22:07(Lv16)
Fight Dragon King/Dracolord 1:34:46(Lv17)
THE END 1:37:42

I don't see mention of the Flame Sword or the Silver Shield or a strategy against the Madknight. But it does mention using Holy Water/Repellent against the Dragon guarding the princess. The player may use that against the Madknight as well, but at level 15 don't you do around 15-20 damage with attacks?

I was unaware of using the Torch in battle to do damage until yesterday when you said it. After reading the comments, it says Holy Water/Repellent does 16-20 damage when used in battle, and I just tried them both out on the GBC version and they both do just what you and the report says.

Give Repellent a try if you want to maybe get Loto's Armor at a lower level, if that's viable.

[quote]Hmmmm....

(For instance, I want to know whether THAT runner gets the Flame Sword and Silver Shield.  His MadKnight strategy might help too.)[/quote]

What I can read from it, this is the player's route plan and when he/she gets to each point (looks like the times are from power on and then play time) and level:

Power On 0:00:00
Get to Rimuldar 0:09:37(Lv 5)
Dragon (1st kill) 0:40:03(Lv 9)
Dragon (9th kill) 1:05:23(Lv14)
Get Silver Harp 1:10:33(Lv15)
Fight Devil Knight/MadKnight 1:12:24(Lv15)
Get Rainbow Drop 1:22:07(Lv16)
Fight Dragon King/Dracolord 1:34:46(Lv17)
THE END 1:37:42

I don't see mention of the Flame Sword or the Silver Shield or a strategy against the Madknight.  But it does mention using Holy Water/Repellent against the Dragon guarding the princess.  The player may use that against the Madknight as well, but at level 15 don't you do around 15-20 damage with attacks?

I was unaware of using the Torch in battle to do damage until yesterday when you said it.  After reading the comments, it says Holy Water/Repellent does 16-20 damage when used in battle, and I just tried them both out on the GBC version and they both do just what you and the report says.

Give Repellent a try if you want to maybe get Loto's Armor at a lower level, if that's viable.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-06-06 12:07:33 pm

2007-06-06 11:58:32 am

Never give up!

Holy Water/Repellent can be used as a weapon? Wow, I had no idea. And I believe it's sold in the town closest to the castle, so I can go back for it after my item shopping. I COULD probably go for something like this to defeat the MadKnight sooner.

I've debated skipping the Iron Axe and, with the defense I have, just going straight to Rimuldar at level 4 and farming enemies there with Firebal. Sure it'd go slow at first, but with the stronger enemies (each taking TWO Firebals to defeat), I'd have to fight fewer battles overall.

Ranti84

2007-06-06 10:53:20 pm

the Watching Shadow

Is the torch/repellent as weapon thing just a GC thing? I don't remember that at ALL from the NES version. How viable is putting the madknight to sleep? I remember getting lucky with that and had an easier time taking him out. Getting back out of the town was another matter without dying (I think I was underlevel by chance then) :\.

Mind you, this is trying to remember playing it on console like 10 years ago and tinkering on emulator about 4 years ago :P.

AquaTiger

2007-06-06 11:00:32 pm

Never give up!

I know for a fact that the 'torch as a weapon' thing is GBC-only. Not so sure about the repellent as I've never tested that personally, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's also restricted to the GBC version.

Ranti84

2007-06-06 11:03:53 pm

the Watching Shadow

I figured as much, although what's the repellant/holy water called in the NES version? I don't remember anything like that...

Red_Scarlet

Edit history:

Red_Scarlet: 2007-06-07 12:14:55 am

2007-06-07 12:11:21 am

"I like to watch"

It was called Fairy Water in the NES version. The Torch and Holy Water very likely are only useable as one-time weapons in the Super Famicom/GBC/cellhpone versions. I think Dragon Quest 5 was the first game that had Holy Water do damage (which a friend of mine tried last night and saw that it did damage in that), and the remake of 1 and 2 were based on 5's engine.

I just played through my NES cart about 2 weeks ago...I could easily test it in most versions of each game if you guys are curious.

AquaTiger

2007-06-07 02:27:55 am

Never give up!

Okay, a recent attempt fell flat the moment I stepped onto the southern island.

I MUST heal before exiting that cave if my "to the southern town early" strategy is going to work. And I must face only one Eyeder on the way there.

I'm thinking getting to level 5 before trying to reach the southern island would be a better idea. This would give me more MP and HP to work with.

SlasherManEXE

2014-05-15 11:24:19 am

Did anything ever come of this? This is a necrobump like crazy, but I might actually be willing to try this out if the GBC version's single segment attempts "died".

Everhate

2014-05-15 07:15:41 pm

Quote from SlasherManEXE:

Did anything ever come of this? This is a necrobump like crazy, but I might actually be willing to try this out if the GBC version's single segment attempts "died".

Did a casual playthrough of this earlier, and it's virtually identical to the SFC version, so the same route would work.

Basic Skeleton would be manipulate Death Necklace (Choker in this version), use that money to buy Steel Sword (Broad sword equivalent)
Silver Harp
Golem at lvl 7-8 (Takes you to ~lvl 11)
Green Dragon 'bosses' to 15
Erdrick/Loto's Armor + token
Dragonlord at 17 or 18

There are a few options for several points, but that's the basic idea. There's a decision to be made about lvl 17 dragonlord or a few more green dragons and/or red dragons for 18. Run is short enough for 17 to be reasonable, though 18 has a much better success rate.