Roll Eyes
Lips Sealed
1 page
List results:
Search options:
Use \ before commas in usernames
Edit history:
SDAVerification: 2013-10-30 01:29:42 am
SDAVerification: 2013-10-30 01:29:29 am
Game Page: Doesn't exist yet

Dragon Warrior (Any %) (Segmented) (ntscus) (nes)

Verifier Responses
A/V: Good, no cheating detected.

Segment 1: I liked the early risks, but by the end of the segment the runner seemed to err on the safe side. First stage of grinding done.
Segment 2: A ton of good luck running from encounters. Bumping into a lot of walls, but that sounds worse than the time lost.
Segment 3: So many close calls, and I've never seen such sleep luck. A few minor mistakes and some wasted seconds in a fight that went south and had to flee from.
Segment 4: For such a short segment, the menuing is a little sloppy in the beginning half. The luck in the second half was probably too good to pass up though.
Segment 5: Could be better... Wink Unlucky wyvern and a werewolf sapped some spell points for sleep that could have pushed the axe knight fight to an early finish. In the end, Sir J valiantly beat against the sleeping armor until it crumbled.
Segment 6: More Grinding! I'm not sure it's impossible to get the sword at this point, but I could be wrong.
Segment 7: Get sword!
Segment 8: Even more grinding!
Segment 9: Thou art still asleep.
Segment 10: Can't get much closer than that.

Yeah, accept. This is a well done run with a lot of luck involved. The slight pauses, missteps, and errors in menu manipulation don't cost much time overall.

Quote from theseawolf1:
In case you couldn’t guess by the…frills, I always add to my commentary, its TSW1 here:

Even Erdrick has fallen, who can save us now? The Princess is taken, the land is in ruin, Hauksness has been annihilated and the holy Balls of Light are now in the hands of the Dragonlord, a being so vile, so evil, so… so BLUE! How we can hope to stand against him? He’s so damn BLUE! Just look at him! His skin, his robes, his funky horn hat…all so blue.
Then came the stranger, a man in azure armor who claimed Erdrick’s bloodline. He came before the king with a poem and a promise:

Warlocks are red,
The Dragonlord’s blue.
Gimme some money,
Cause damn it, I am too.


Audio/Visual: Seems fine for ye olde NES.
Cheating: Seems legit, the gold, and xp and Herb counts line up.
Gameplay: He moves on a grid-based world and puts monsters down at an alarming rate.

Overview of the Segments

Segment 1 – Gotta love old Nintendo enemy zones. The Hills of Hubris are a slight overlap from the southern zone past the mountains. It’s a good way to power level early, or get your teeth kicked in by a scorpion at level 1. Early grinding goes well, more cautious as the chance for a good segment becomes evident. One minor issue with the item shop but well executed overall.

Segment 2 – The runner really goes for the jugular on this segment, getting another thing that goes for the jugular not once but TWICE. The Death Necklace is a moneymaker, nothing more. Run luck is stupid good.

Segment 3 – The risky grinds! In particular, that one magidrakee really went for the gold, but fell just short.  Also, hit up the DW Battle Simulator and look up some of these fight odds down in Rimuldar. Sleep luck is off the wall ridiculous; I’m starting to think J is ancient Aztec for “The Sandman”.

Segment 4 – Mighty risky fighting the Wolflord, but successful. Belt gained, harp plundered, thou art dead’d. Good show.

Segment 5 – J begins the segment by being browbeaten into buying ALL the fairy water. He goes all passive aggressive and vents his frustration on a poor lonely Axe Knight meditating in a deserted town.  He kills the poor soul for only having blue highlights on his sprite, and wears him as a set of armor. He gets Wolfpunched back to Alefgard and saves.  (In reality…wtf on the sleep luck, the math I think works out to around .00000003869501799171634%. That must have been about 50000 attempts)

Segment 6 – I got the Stones! The Stones of Sunlight! Erdrick’s Armor makes you into a real beast, with the game’s highest defensive stats, immunity to floor damage and regeneration on the overworld map. This lets him tank monsters that would have killed him in Segment 5 by breaking wind in his vicinity. As the runner mentions in his notes, when your defensive ability is a certain amount above a monster’s offensive ability, the damage formula changes heavily in your favor. Wolflords are also almost easier than Wolves, as they waste turns casting StopSpell about 25% of the time.

Section 7 – Besides a menu mess up in Charlock, work was done on this segment. Solid.

Section 8 – Erdrick’s stuff really helps out on the overworld. Excellent grind, juuuust enough gold, and the golem gets wrecked very swiftly.

Section 9 – Grindathon. The runner knows how to manipulate certain battles (namely Metal Slime and Demon Knight) and can force them to happen at several points in the segment. His notes cover it in more detail; suffice to say it’s a wonder of observing RNG and game mechanics and execution on the runner’s part.

Section 10 – The lucky 1st phase and low rolling of the Dragonlord on several critical attacks is pleasing to me. Here’s a transcript of the final battle:

DL - “You are almost as blue as I. This cannot stand, I challenge you to a BLUEL!”

Two hits later: DL - “Well met, but behold my blue form…anOW!. Hey, stop whacking me, I’m not finOW! Fine then, the only thing going to be blew around here is my fire breath!”

Many hits later – DL – “Urk…”
Erdrick’s Descendant – “……cyan-ara, jackass.


Overall Opinion:
The run is very solid, a few mistakes in menuing here and there, hesitation in a few battles but those were mostly in the money segments, the ones who hinged on odds as stupid as .00000003869501799171634%. The possible improvements mentioned by the runner introduce TAS-level luck into the equation, I wonder if his manipulation of Metal Slimes would work at the lower levels. Getting Erdrick’s Sword early might allow you an easier time in getting the armor, but you’d likely need the armor to survive the approach to the sword in the first place with the barriers (at level 7, you would need to heal after every  2 steps on barriers, and you average about a 10-20% chance to run from monsters in Charlock, many will attack before you are ready and can one shot you).
In short, you’d have to be stupid lucky. Fishing-for-optimal-Clue-results lucky.

Verdict: I Accept this run as SDA-worthy, at a time of 4:47:08.

Great jaerb!

Pretty good run. Looked good and sounded good a/v  wise. There were a couple places where the runner ran into a little bit of bad luck, but overall a good run.


Segment 1:

Why pick up the torch?

Are ghosts better?  With high dodge and several rounds.  Better than drakees, though.  Just wonder if one hitting slimes would be more efficient over the level.

Would also be interested in seeing if one shotting ghosts with hurt for 3 exp would be faster than 4-6 exp with two shots.  Could go to the desert area so you don't have the pause after every step. Get much less gold doing that, though.

Segment 2:

Since it's segmented, should learn the route without having to bump or use torches. Difficult, but that's how I'd start.  Then I'd learn if it was at all feasible.

Herbs necessary to get?

Don't know if a second trip into the cave is necessary... Just kill 10 non ghost Zone 4/5 enemies.  Faster than going back for the 100 gold I would think.  Would require one very clean run through the cave to have the MP necessary to use hurts. Would have more EXP overall, too.

Segment 3:

I'm on the fence on killing the weak enemies on the way.  Two hitting drakee seems like a waste.  A two round ghost doesn't feel much better.  One round kills seem okay. Minor, though.

NPC fun.

Where's the zone break for skeletons near Kol?  Wouldn't they be better than ghosts? Almost 4x exp.  3 round kill would be more efficient.  Nevermind.  Just looked.  You ARE in the skeleton zone.  Just haven't seen any yet.

Bad heal, there.

Another bad heal.

Okay.  Maybe skeletons aren't efficient. Still, 17/min seems really low for level 6.

Still don't agree with the 9 HP heal, skeleton fear or no.

I've considered running from Metal Scorpions at level 7 and maybe 8.  A bit inefficient, I think.

If not metal scorpions, then surely warlocks.  I guess in segmented, killing all of them is the right strategy.

One chance at sleep lock didn't happen against you.  Hate warlocks.

NPC fun at the end.

Segment 4

Deciding whether to run or fight is so important in a run.  Can't fault the red slime or wolf, but the droll was a three round battle.  Specter has good gold, so I agree with that one.  Droll is only 20.  Tough decision.

Based on length of THIS dungeon, I understand the use of a torch.

Segment 5

It would be interesting to see the exact way the encounter system works.  I know the odds, but that first encounter one step out of the castle has to be avoidable, right? 

Eek on the extra step.

Are the wyverns and werewolves unrunnable unless they're asleep?  Or are the odds better to sleep and then run.  Given the likelihood of the axe knight battle, getting to him more often is probably the right play.

Need to clean up the hesitations and wrong moves.  Gotta look like you have a plan for every possible occurrence, especially in the short segments.  Long segments don't matter as much.  Would have been worse if the first kill had you forget to grab the armor. 

The battle itself is amusing as it looked like you have bad damage with hurt and of course the really good luck in the failure to wake up.  Kind of weird to see. 

Segment 6

Didn't know that zone went into the desert.  Nice.  I was wondering why you were heading that way.

Don't like metal scorpions, what with their defense and their extra line they take up on every attack.

I'd run from wraiths and their heal.  Very inefficient.  Almost want to run away from the scorpions, too, and go straight wolflords.  Better gold output, too.  3-4x rather than 2.5-3x exp from metal scorpions.

Man, not finished with the segment yet, but I never got the limited use of heal wraiths are using in this run.

All that gold lost seems like a waste.  No way to get wings or something?  Fewer goldmen later.

Segment 7.

I know this segment is solely for the sword, but those wyverns seem ripe for killing.

Pretty clean segment other than the one menu mistake.  I love the pitch changes in the dungeons in this game.  A nice touch other games didn't pick up on. 

Segment 8

When I was grinding in the desert, I'd move into an easier zone when HP was getting low.  This was later in levels, so it was the knight zone into the wyvern zone, but the concept is the same.  I fully endorse this.

Too bad wyverns aren't guaranteed two hit kills.

Mistake fourteen minutes in with not going to the lower zone at low health.  Had to waste a turn using an herb.

I'd be tempted at the knight zone at level 11.  Just go in there at full health or something.  Problem is anything but the knight and wyvern in that zone is not really efficient.

I like the choice not to heal when at the low point of health.  Had risk, but required a dodge and a high hit on two different occasions. 

Still hate all skeletons and their dodging prowess.

I think I'd definitely jump into the knight zone at full health at level 12.  OHKO on wolflords are really nice, though...

Should be able to get a three round kill on a knight with at least one stopspell, right?  Seems pretty safe.  Even rogue scorpions shouldn't be too bad.

Segment 9

I agree with running from Demon Knights.

In the butter zone for Wraith Knights.  Like that, too.  THKO but not getting above 75% max HP on first hit.

Lost 50 HP to the demon knight to level up to 14.  Not sure it was worth it.  Cost an herb.

Have to two hit demon knights at level 14 to make them seem worthwhile.  I might still run.

Bad demon knight after level 15.  Haven't gotten to the issue in level 17 that the notes mentioned, but maybe it could have been avoided by not fighting the demon knights earlier and having herbs and more heals later.  The 37 exp is nice, but it's going to cost you in the long run.

Interesting run from the wraith knight at around 56:20.  Then kill knight with crit on next step.  Any reason for the run?  I know he cast heal, but that wasn't the first time a heal happened after the first hit.

Not a bad idea to go into the forest.  Not sure why you didn't do it earlier.  Still don't like the demon knight battles. 

Some good luck with damage output 1:03 in.

Another wraith knight run...I don't understand.  I suppose it's the anticipation of the metal slime battle.

Yeah, must be for the metal slime/crit anticipation.

Why walk in the hills and the forced pause just for magiwyverns?  I'd rather you just go into Hauksness.

And sleep lock fun...Waste of time.

Level 16 and 17 isn't different attack wise.  Can't remember if the agility puts green dragons in the safe zone or not...

Given what I think is the higher variance on zone 12, with magiwyvern sleeplocking, I have a hard time believing the drop in exp/min was bad luck and not just normal variance, plus you can still walk on desert tiles in Hauksness and not hills with the, what, four frame pause on every step that adds up after awhile.

Hearing the battle music loop makes me sad panda.

I wonder if traveling on hills with their delay makes the metal slime manipulation fail to work anymore.  Seems like running away from wraith knights is because it fits the pattern you're looking for, but you never get another metal slime after starting the grind in the mountains.

Werewolves are the star of the level 17 grind.  I would think green dragons would be, too.

A dancing demon knight I do consider unlucky.

The length of the segment mitigates the level 17 stuff somewhat, but it stands out to me, anyway.

Segment 10

No red dragons.  Nice.

Dramatic endings are always nice, too.

Almost want to go after a no failed run segment, with how smoothly this segment looked.

Concluding remarks:

It appears a lot of the questions I have about the decisions made in the run have appropriate responses, and that's good.  The routing has been justifiable and the other comparable choice (level 17 grind, torch vs. bonk, etc.) isn't guaranteed to be better. A few wrong moves here and there and a few menu errors.  I'm always a proponent of clean menu work, especially in a segmented run. The question I asked myself is whether I think the run would look bad on SDA, and the answer was a pretty obvious no, so it's an accept.

Watched the entire run at 2x or 4x because the grinding is just not that interesting.

The run seems pretty well planned out, the comments explain the reasoning behind a lot of decisions even if I'm not convinced they're the best. Some of the segments are way more difficult than this run makes them look, so that makes up for any potential planning errors somewhat.

I don't really feel the need to go into much more detail since the two verifiers above already covered pretty much everything.


This run is pretty much as everyone else mentioned. Lots of grinding as expected of this particular game, nothing major to complain about, highlight the Axe Knight fight.


Decision: Accept

Congratulations to Eric 'Lhexa' D'Avignon!
Thread title:  
Willing to teach you the impossible

In segment one, I pick up the torch to use later in the Mountain Cave -- menu time lost is gained back by not bumping into walls.  For all the grinding segments I would systematically test the eligible zones, finding a few surprises in the process.  The Ghosts at level three were one such surprise, but then, at this level they take two to five rounds to kill, and a four-round fight for 3 XP is faster than three one-round fights for 1 XP.  By the same reasoning, two-shotting a Magidrakee (5 XP) will be faster than one-shotting a Ghost, and much faster than all the other stuff in the Ghost zone.  If I remember right, getting to level five on the Ghost zone was about a minute slower on average than the Hills of Hubris.

Segment two: You think it's plausible to do the Mountain Cave without bumping?  It might be possible, but I never got to that level of skill during practice.  If that can be done (or can be done with only a few bumps, like the Swamp Cave), then it's a clear improvement.  The herbs are for a safer Segment Three, as I won't end up with enough money to buy six of them.  They can be skipped, though I ended up needing them.  Ten zone 4/5 fights would be about three minutes, which is on the order of how long one Cave trip takes... so yeah, that might indeed be faster.  I'm sad I didn't think to test that.

Segment three: The first two strips of desert near Kol are zone five, and the rest of the desert is zone six.  So when I want to heal, I retreat to the western edge of the desert.  Skeletons are nice XP, but they hit way too hard.  If I fight too many of them I can't get by on three inn trips.  In the kept segment, the first half was unremarkable, but the section around Rimuldar was fantastic, so the whole thing met my "two standard deviations below the mean" criterion.  Also, of all the Rimuldar enemies, I was always happiest to see the Warlock.  I can kill him one round quicker than the Wolf, but the XP is almost as good and he doesn't hit as hard.  I did lose several attempts to his spellcasting, mind you.

Segment Four: The droll took longer than usual.  Later on, I only fight Specters and Wolflords, because they're vulnerable to SLEEP.  I fought the very last battle expecting to die, but got lucky instead, and met my GP goal.

Segment Five:  The odds are much better to sleep and run, in the case of Wyverns and Werewolves.  Running is guaranteed when they're asleep, but otherwise success is agility-dependent, and my agility at level eight is quite low.  Also, the Axe Knight had 68 HP, which is close to his maximum. 

Hitting the Axe Knight with SLEEP is a 1/16 chance, and him waking up is a 1/3 chance thereafter.  So the total chances of a ten-turn sleep-lock against the Axe Knight is about (1/16)*(2/3)^10, or about 0.0011... with variations on the order of 2 to account for preemptive strikes and/or getting extra chances to cast SLEEP.  And one would normally expect a successful fight to take seven or so turns.  So the odds were long, but not one in 50000 long.  And the Sword of Erdrick ended up taking twice as long to get (twelve hours or so of attempts, I think), so I'm thankful I went for the extra two levels' worth of agility.  It ended up being about six hours attempts for the Armor, and fifteen for the Sword.

Segment Six:  Yeah, I was pleased to find that tiny bit of desert, too.  Also, with the GP margin in Segment Eight, it turned out that the earlier gold did not go to waste, despite being quartered.  Metal Scorpions have low HP, making up for their high defense.  Wraiths can be a pain, but the window (<1/4 of max HP) for their casting HEAL is pretty small. 

Segment Eight: At level 12, Knights and Wraith Knights have a considerable chance of killing me, as only the Rogue Scorpion is in the safe zone.  This scenario I did test, though, and it came out to slightly less XP than zone 9 due to longer kills and sometimes running.  By the same token, at level thirteen zone 10 is only barely faster than zone 9, but the gap widens as I get stronger.

Segment Nine:  Going into the forest slows me down noticably.  I do it later on because I was having a great segment and I didn't want to ruin it.  At level 17, zone 12 is the fastest -- I measured 115, 118, and 112 XP/min for zones 10, 12 and 13 respectively.  I tested this on two separate occasions, because it was so weird.  But, this time around, I ended up with a worse-than-average level seventeen, and a fantastic everything else.  The Metal Slime manipulation still works the same in the hills, but there are actually only two chances during the whole of level seventeen (most of it overlaps with fights that would have failed).

I think the running was for Metal Slime anticipation.  Since the RNG is called twice per steps, you can think of it as being two "lists" of upcoming battles that you might go through.  If I know I've hit the wrong list, then running will give me a 1/2 chance of getting back on the right one and finding the Metal Slime kill.

Thank you for your patience.  I plan to attempt Dragon Warrior 2 sometime next year, so wish me luck on that.
SGL Scrublord
"So the odds were long, but not one in 50000 long."

Shhhhh, let them be lost in wonder Tongue