edit: found stuff that changed stuff, got rid of bad information. Current route in my videos.
SDA Forum
Edit history:
BayouBillyBones: 2015-04-01 08:56:07 pm
BayouBillyBones: 2014-06-03 09:49:27 am
BayouBillyBones: 2014-06-02 05:21:28 pm
Life's short. Get a dog.
Unfortunately having Jessica in the party was not enough to unlock Trodain I think the triggers would be the Ascantha main story quest but that is to time consuming compared to southwest isles rng.
Just one last confirmation to other potential readers, the sequence break skips everything from Farebury all the way to getting the from magic mirror from Argonia. Technically 5 bosses are skipped but two are revisted to unlock characters we missed. It also skips obtaining the boat through legitimate means which is a tedious process in a regular run. I can't wait till some real runs are started as I want to see how effective this glitch has been and how my efforts have benefited towards the destruction of this game :P.
Just one last confirmation to other potential readers, the sequence break skips everything from Farebury all the way to getting the from magic mirror from Argonia. Technically 5 bosses are skipped but two are revisted to unlock characters we missed. It also skips obtaining the boat through legitimate means which is a tedious process in a regular run. I can't wait till some real runs are started as I want to see how effective this glitch has been and how my efforts have benefited towards the destruction of this game :P.
Keep up the good work guys, I'm glad to see that this is going somewhere !
As for me, I finally took the time to complete the DQ8 notes that I have been working on. I just have to look more into the new strat at the beginning from BayouBillyBones to see how much time I can shave from it and it would be pretty much over for single-segment/RTA routing unless I decide to look over the spears route one day.
As for me, I finally took the time to complete the DQ8 notes that I have been working on. I just have to look more into the new strat at the beginning from BayouBillyBones to see how much time I can shave from it and it would be pretty much over for single-segment/RTA routing unless I decide to look over the spears route one day.
Alright, new PB : 12:35:47 ! The beginning was really bad, but I managed to save up quite some time on the metal slimes. I should definitely be able to do sub12h30 with a properly executed run.
Hey Dreamboum. Congrats on the new PB. Watching some of it now. Quick question regarding the cutscene of Angelo leading you out of the secret path (~2hrs 12mins in your run). Last time I played it, it was a horrendously long cutscene where Angelo seemed to get stuck just walking constantly before anything happened, I think your previous PB was the same. In your new run his speech overlapped with Yangus'. How did you manage to shorten it so much?
It's a really weird cutscene, maybe it's because it is one of the only that is in an endless loop (they constantly walk), but it seems that they get stuck if you don't release the buttons. I skip the dialog with the joystick and the cancel button and if I don't let go of the joystick even with the dialog skipped, it doesn't get to the next one. You just have to constantly tap the joystick and the cancel button in order to get through it without being stuck. I had to replay it a few times in order to understand why it happens.
new PB : 12:20:16 !
It could have been way better and there is a fair share of mistakes but I am overall satisfied. Too bad the Raphthorne 1 fight was a huge disaster.
It could have been way better and there is a fair share of mistakes but I am overall satisfied. Too bad the Raphthorne 1 fight was a huge disaster.
Its been a long time since theres been a post here. Just now I noticed on Feb 22nd The Japanese TAS has been updated for the game which includes two parts.
They don't use the intro skip glitch but (10 MINS in) another menu cycling glitch at Farebury to glitch out of the map, I always thought the menu cycling would be useful elsewhere but its too inconsistent non TAS. By doing that glitch they already have supplies and Yangus at the start of the game. The next part is where things get crazy.
He runs all the way to Trodain castle from Farebury and normally you cant get in but alas (14 MINS) another menu cycling glitch and he hops over the wall into a preloaded Trodain Castle. Because of where he glitched from Farebury all the time he was running he only encountered monsters from that region so this could actually be possible non TAS as you wouldn't get one hit from monsters on the way like you would have on the boat. Although a bit of pre-grinding wouldn't hurt to get Hatchet Man this is a very early way to get Liquid Metal Slimes regardless.
After killing one Liquid Metal he just plays the game in order, part two he just continues playing the game in sequence ending at Simpleton. im excited to see what comes next.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25562668
They don't use the intro skip glitch but (10 MINS in) another menu cycling glitch at Farebury to glitch out of the map, I always thought the menu cycling would be useful elsewhere but its too inconsistent non TAS. By doing that glitch they already have supplies and Yangus at the start of the game. The next part is where things get crazy.
He runs all the way to Trodain castle from Farebury and normally you cant get in but alas (14 MINS) another menu cycling glitch and he hops over the wall into a preloaded Trodain Castle. Because of where he glitched from Farebury all the time he was running he only encountered monsters from that region so this could actually be possible non TAS as you wouldn't get one hit from monsters on the way like you would have on the boat. Although a bit of pre-grinding wouldn't hurt to get Hatchet Man this is a very early way to get Liquid Metal Slimes regardless.
After killing one Liquid Metal he just plays the game in order, part two he just continues playing the game in sequence ending at Simpleton. im excited to see what comes next.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25562668
Life's short. Get a dog.
Here are his notes so far: http://ch.nicovideo.jp/desync_de_suyaxa/blomaga/ar716511
Other points: that is a ton of cycles. So if it is as tight as the bridge...yeah. But, I should have some time to test the skips out this weekend. The fact that you get farebury encounters instead of ship encounters is very promising. Things to check off the top of my head: will the entrance to trodain still be sealed when you zoom back there after a round of LMS hunting? Does switching to Yangus during the trodain skip have a reason, or was he saving inputs when whistling later?
Also, it is good to see that he is part of team "diagonal running" with everyone else.
So far, I would think that: bridge skip, pirate's cove, slime crown, farebury skip, trodain skip, level -> boat to baccarat, lizard kill, party pick up, and then plot would be the ideal order. But I am eager to see
Other points: that is a ton of cycles. So if it is as tight as the bridge...yeah. But, I should have some time to test the skips out this weekend. The fact that you get farebury encounters instead of ship encounters is very promising. Things to check off the top of my head: will the entrance to trodain still be sealed when you zoom back there after a round of LMS hunting? Does switching to Yangus during the trodain skip have a reason, or was he saving inputs when whistling later?
Also, it is good to see that he is part of team "diagonal running" with everyone else.
So far, I would think that: bridge skip, pirate's cove, slime crown, farebury skip, trodain skip, level -> boat to baccarat, lizard kill, party pick up, and then plot would be the ideal order. But I am eager to see
Edit history:
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:02:27 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:01:52 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:01:16 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:01:13 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:01:10 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:00:49 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:00:47 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:00:43 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:00:37 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:00:37 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:00:36 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:00:36 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 02:00:35 am
Krissehboy: 2015-02-25 01:54:16 am
Quote from BayouBillyBones:
Here are his notes so far: http://ch.nicovideo.jp/desync_de_suyaxa/blomaga/ar716511
Other points: that is a ton of cycles. So if it is as tight as the bridge...yeah. But, I should have some time to test the skips out this weekend. The fact that you get farebury encounters instead of ship encounters is very promising. Things to check off the top of my head: will the entrance to trodain still be sealed when you zoom back there after a round of LMS hunting? Does switching to Yangus during the trodain skip have a reason, or was he saving inputs when whistling later?
Also, it is good to see that he is part of team "diagonal running" with everyone else.
So far, I would think that: bridge skip, pirate's cove, slime crown, farebury skip, trodain skip, level -> boat to baccarat, lizard kill, party pick up, and then plot would be the ideal order. But I am eager to see
Other points: that is a ton of cycles. So if it is as tight as the bridge...yeah. But, I should have some time to test the skips out this weekend. The fact that you get farebury encounters instead of ship encounters is very promising. Things to check off the top of my head: will the entrance to trodain still be sealed when you zoom back there after a round of LMS hunting? Does switching to Yangus during the trodain skip have a reason, or was he saving inputs when whistling later?
Also, it is good to see that he is part of team "diagonal running" with everyone else.
So far, I would think that: bridge skip, pirate's cove, slime crown, farebury skip, trodain skip, level -> boat to baccarat, lizard kill, party pick up, and then plot would be the ideal order. But I am eager to see
^ This order excites me, plus I can't really make much of those notes
I have a small feeling that the group that is performing the TAS don't actually know of some of the things that we already discovered like how a lot of npcs spawn back after the lizard fight. I don't know the time difference in doing that instead of getting the characters 1 by 1 like they did. They didn't even perform the intro skip so to my knowledge they wouldn't even have the boat at that point so they couldn't travel to baccarat and continue the story from that point anyway.
Also with the intro skip I tried it for about 3 minutes and got it once but I couldn't replicate it quite so easily the second time around. Also spent an hour mashing on my arcade stick to try the Farebury clip and actually got close on 1 attempt but no where close on the attempts there after. I made a savestate in the Japanese version outside the gate if you would like to give it a shot, the same file I got the intro skip in a few minutes on.
Edit history:
BayouBillyBones: 2015-03-12 09:34:39 am
BayouBillyBones: 2015-03-12 08:42:36 am
BayouBillyBones: 2015-03-12 08:40:38 am
BayouBillyBones: 2015-03-12 08:34:55 am
BayouBillyBones: 2015-03-10 10:39:41 pm
Life's short. Get a dog.
On my end, I finally got a first segment:
On Nico's end, the TAS has redone a few things, mainly a boat ramp fall through the map into trodain instead of the farebury fall + long walk. This is most likely JP only, as all the boat ramp falls I have checked so far are. Also, it looks like they still do not know of the advantage pirate's cove and great argon lizard give. Here are the updated videos:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25695071
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25733691
On Nico's end, the TAS has redone a few things, mainly a boat ramp fall through the map into trodain instead of the farebury fall + long walk. This is most likely JP only, as all the boat ramp falls I have checked so far are. Also, it looks like they still do not know of the advantage pirate's cove and great argon lizard give. Here are the updated videos:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25695071
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25733691
Congratulations on the first segment, I was very impressed with the video as a whole, I also appreciate the mention :P. Definitely excited to see Segment 2 but I could only imagine that it would take quite a long enough time with the complexity/luck based tricks, I also would love to watch you stream some of your attempts sometime if you're down for it.
Now we just need someone who can speak damn Japanese, they are putting a lot of effort into the TAS and I think they will only benefit from this extra knowledge.
Now we just need someone who can speak damn Japanese, they are putting a lot of effort into the TAS and I think they will only benefit from this extra knowledge.
Life's short. Get a dog.
Part 3 just came up and that OOB on the way to Wisher's peak looks like it could completely change an RTA run if the encounter rate is any good. Trading MS for LMS would save so much time and money. Also, always good to see tortured soul skip.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25771267
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25771267
Quote from BayouBillyBones:
Part 3 just came up and that OOB on the way to Wisher's peak looks like it could completely change an RTA run if the encounter rate is any good. Trading MS for LMS would save so much time and money. Also, always good to see tortured soul skip.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25771267
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25771267
Part 4 is now up,
They use evac at pirates cove to get the boat and progress the story at baccarat.
Life's short. Get a dog.
Luckily, Desync Desuya has been uploading them to youtube as well so people do not have to deal with Nico's issues: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL__6jUdEsJ1JldLVlRbVID934L3LWKOt8
I didn't know different characters glitched on the door like shown in your Segment 2 Yangus edition haha. When I did test I saw I got stuck in an infinite opening loop and even putting Munchie through the hole, Bangers and Mash wouldn't accept the note despite them asking for the proof the cut scene wouldn't trigger.
Life's short. Get a dog.
So, this happened today: 
Which means it is possible on the US version. The sabrecat took fewer cycles to get through than the TAS took on foot. But, I haven't been able to get through on foot yet. Here is the trigger box as best I can figure:
Also, I did some testing with diagonal running, and even inside a city with all the meandering and bouncing into things that diagonal running results in, it was still 25% faster than normal running.
In other news, I took a minute off my segment 2 and gained another 200 gold by going with a riskier route. Not sure if I'll keep grinding it for the last few seconds or not.
Which means it is possible on the US version. The sabrecat took fewer cycles to get through than the TAS took on foot. But, I haven't been able to get through on foot yet. Here is the trigger box as best I can figure:
Also, I did some testing with diagonal running, and even inside a city with all the meandering and bouncing into things that diagonal running results in, it was still 25% faster than normal running.
In other news, I took a minute off my segment 2 and gained another 200 gold by going with a riskier route. Not sure if I'll keep grinding it for the last few seconds or not.
That's cool you got it with the Sabrecat but its unfortunate that its so hard to do on foot. I think because you can clip with the Sabrecat on the overworld, Captain Crow skip is now possible on the NA version. Not huge news but something that wasn't possible on NA before these clips were discovered.
Life's short. Get a dog.
I haven't tried to use the sabrecat to do any boat ramp falls yet, but I did run all the way over to the frozen north where my entire party save hero disappeared after the "lost in the snow and saved by the dog" cut-scene. I can send the OOB save state to anyone who wants to play around OOB.
edit: did some timing on movement speed:
diagonal running = 1.25 x regular running
sabrecat = 1.5 x regular running
So, being that the sabrecat quest adds a good 8 minutes or so, not counting the reduced encounter rate, it would only save time if there was 40 minutes of running left in the run after unlocking it. It makes sense, then, that the newer Japanese routes have cut it out.
edit: did some timing on movement speed:
diagonal running = 1.25 x regular running
sabrecat = 1.5 x regular running
So, being that the sabrecat quest adds a good 8 minutes or so, not counting the reduced encounter rate, it would only save time if there was 40 minutes of running left in the run after unlocking it. It makes sense, then, that the newer Japanese routes have cut it out.
Nice work with the segmented run, Bayou. I was curious regarding your demo of the glitch with the sabre cat to fall through the map near wisher's peak. Could this be incorporated into an RTA? Just seems like if things can be planned out well to get the sabre cat at a time with minimial loss, then use it to get the liquid metal slimes via menu cycle glitch instead of trying to hunt down 3/5 in Trodain. It would save a lot of time in Trodain and overall if the encounter rate for 6 liquid metal slimes is quite high. Of course this all depends on how easy that menu cycle trick is there and how frequent slime encounters are.
The current RTA doesn't use the sabrecats so I guess you'd have to factor in the time loss to get it and compared to the time saved if you were able to do the trick.
The current RTA doesn't use the sabrecats so I guess you'd have to factor in the time loss to get it and compared to the time saved if you were able to do the trick.
Life's short. Get a dog.
Hi Reaver,
Good questions. The video in question in case anyone needs context:
The glitch is theoretically possible on foot, it just takes more menu cycles. The japanese TAS takes 9 cycles to get out on foot, I believe, which is twice what it takes on a sabrecat. So far no one has used frame advance to figure out exactly how big the window is for getting into and out of the menu, and it might change based on hardware as well (Fat vs. slim vs. ps3) so we can't say for sure how difficult it is. I do know that when I was grinding the bridge skip, at my best I was about 1 for twenty at it. On foot, the wisher's peak OOB should take twice as many cycles as bridge skip. On sabrecat, about the same number, but there is no barrel to use to help out, though there is a strong visual cue.
Now, as to how useful. The bridge skip allows you to skip trap box, don mole, and a lot of cut scenes so you can save at least an hour as a result of it. The problem, though is that you have to not only get the skip, but also get really good flee luck before you can save and advance. So, even if you were getting first try bridge skip, you would still be resetting 20 times or so until you get the flee luck you need. Also, there is no free lunch with it, and the plot time save comes at the price of never getting to upgrade the alchemy pot. After I finish my segmented run, I'll probably route out how I think an RTA would incorporate both.
As to wisher's peak, the most useful way to use it would be to start grinding there as soon as you get Angelo. That would mean doing it on foot, which should be twice as difficult. Even if you were 1 for 20 on getting the wisher's peak glitch on foot, you would still save time because each LMS is 8 MS, so instead of grinding out 45 MS kills and 4 LMS, you would only need to get 10 total LMS kills, which could be as few as three or four encounters rather than the combined 2+ hours of grinding all those MS and LMS take. The problem, though, is that all the other enemies in the area can kill you when you first start, so there is still some luck involved, but I think that even if you could get as good as 1 for 20 getting OOB on foot, it would 100% be worth dropping into the route (also, there is that Yggdrasil dew sitting on the island which would make dhoulmagus far easier.)
The problem with using it to grind instead of Trodain, is that getting the sabrecat takes so long. A good grind through Trodain is 20 minutes or so for 4 LMS kills. Getting the sabrecat adds 7 minutes. So, even if grinding OOB is 4 times as fast, you have only gained 8-10 minutes by including a very difficult trick especially since you will now get more encounters Trodain->chateux felix since you are now doing that at a lower level.
TLDR: if you are good enough to get wisher's peak OOB consistently, you are good enough to get bridge skip so you might as well do both, that way you can boat over to chateux felix and get a sabrecat right after grabbing angelo and cut both (pickham->baccarat) and the MS/LMS grinding.
Good questions. The video in question in case anyone needs context:
The glitch is theoretically possible on foot, it just takes more menu cycles. The japanese TAS takes 9 cycles to get out on foot, I believe, which is twice what it takes on a sabrecat. So far no one has used frame advance to figure out exactly how big the window is for getting into and out of the menu, and it might change based on hardware as well (Fat vs. slim vs. ps3) so we can't say for sure how difficult it is. I do know that when I was grinding the bridge skip, at my best I was about 1 for twenty at it. On foot, the wisher's peak OOB should take twice as many cycles as bridge skip. On sabrecat, about the same number, but there is no barrel to use to help out, though there is a strong visual cue.
Now, as to how useful. The bridge skip allows you to skip trap box, don mole, and a lot of cut scenes so you can save at least an hour as a result of it. The problem, though is that you have to not only get the skip, but also get really good flee luck before you can save and advance. So, even if you were getting first try bridge skip, you would still be resetting 20 times or so until you get the flee luck you need. Also, there is no free lunch with it, and the plot time save comes at the price of never getting to upgrade the alchemy pot. After I finish my segmented run, I'll probably route out how I think an RTA would incorporate both.
As to wisher's peak, the most useful way to use it would be to start grinding there as soon as you get Angelo. That would mean doing it on foot, which should be twice as difficult. Even if you were 1 for 20 on getting the wisher's peak glitch on foot, you would still save time because each LMS is 8 MS, so instead of grinding out 45 MS kills and 4 LMS, you would only need to get 10 total LMS kills, which could be as few as three or four encounters rather than the combined 2+ hours of grinding all those MS and LMS take. The problem, though, is that all the other enemies in the area can kill you when you first start, so there is still some luck involved, but I think that even if you could get as good as 1 for 20 getting OOB on foot, it would 100% be worth dropping into the route (also, there is that Yggdrasil dew sitting on the island which would make dhoulmagus far easier.)
The problem with using it to grind instead of Trodain, is that getting the sabrecat takes so long. A good grind through Trodain is 20 minutes or so for 4 LMS kills. Getting the sabrecat adds 7 minutes. So, even if grinding OOB is 4 times as fast, you have only gained 8-10 minutes by including a very difficult trick especially since you will now get more encounters Trodain->chateux felix since you are now doing that at a lower level.
TLDR: if you are good enough to get wisher's peak OOB consistently, you are good enough to get bridge skip so you might as well do both, that way you can boat over to chateux felix and get a sabrecat right after grabbing angelo and cut both (pickham->baccarat) and the MS/LMS grinding.