Dragon Quest VIII speedrun (In progress)

2013-05-13 02:27:06 pm

Well first of all, are you sure about speedrunning a game you haven't played before? Seems to me like you wouldn't want it spoiled for you, or to basically have the answers given to you by watching the videos.

Reaver

2013-05-13 03:57:41 pm

I'd have to agree with Fionordeguester. The game has a good story and its best to play through everything before you speedrun it. Unless you have already in the past? Besides that, this game is a lot more difficult than the current unfinished speedrun made it look. You might have second thoughts about speedrunning it shortly after playing it. The game can be quite random and very uncooperative. Levelling is key. I am amazed with some of the luck in the current unfinished run. It's a shame it wasn't finished, especially after seeing the amount of good segments in there that require a lot of luck and most of required a lot of restarts on some segments.

If you do decide to speed run it, good luck. I know a bit about this game so should be able to help out on some stuff, but the current unfinished run is your best source of information.

zeno3791

2013-05-27 08:24:28 am

I'm playing through it first because it is a really good game, played it once as a kid but never finished it. as far as I can tell this game is really hard
from the start if you don't level which may cause issues with the route. will really be glad of any help when it comes to starting this but for now thanks.

Dreamboum

2014-02-02 09:32:52 pm

Alright, I have been looking into this game for quite a while but I'm finally jumping into it now that I have enough material. I'm currently routing this game for the heck of it (I don't think I'll ever be able to fully run this lol). I have seen the unfinished multi-segment in this thread and now I am watching japanese runs of it and it seems that there was a lot of improvement being made since then. They succeeded into finishing this game in sub10h which is an incredible feat.

Anyway, there are major differences in this game that will make NA/EU version way slower than japanese, none of them affects the mechanism of the game (no stats difference between versions) but they do affect the general flow (faster loading times, menu and shopping) which is making me think that it's going to take around 13 hours (3 hours difference !)

I'm currently keeping track of everything in this google doc, I will also try to post my progress in this thread if people are interested about it (maybe some videos). I'm currently at the first boss, it's not much (~30mns into the run) but there is already a lot to do.

Alright, I have been looking into this game for quite a while but I'm finally jumping into it now that I have enough material. I'm currently routing this game for the heck of it (I don't think I'll ever be able to fully run this lol). I have seen the unfinished multi-segment in this thread and now I am watching japanese runs of it and it seems that there was a lot of improvement being made since then. They succeeded into finishing this game in sub10h which is an incredible feat.

Anyway, there are major differences in this game that will make NA/EU version way slower than japanese, none of them affects the mechanism of the game (no stats difference between versions) but they do affect the general flow (faster loading times, menu and shopping) which is making me think that it's going to take around 13 hours (3 hours difference !)

I'm currently keeping track of everything in this [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/11_ZdpZWE0u9hsQGhBpbKMTEXUlyUIEHizaiejZx0vPY/edit#]google doc[/url], I will also try to post my progress in this thread if people are interested about it (maybe some videos). I'm currently at the first boss, it's not much (~30mns into the run) but there is already a lot to do.

Reaver

2014-02-03 03:56:01 pm

Good luck with this. Tough game and a tough game to run. Looking at your notes I have a few questions about the beginning of your route:

The One Knight Stand fight can be quite tough, even at level 3. Do you have a strategy for him at level 2? I recall that I tried something similar and needed more than 2 medicinal herbs and still lost on multiple attempts.
Why apply the skill points to the sword? Would spear not be more beneficial for later on in the run when you need the spear techniques to kill metal slimes?
From reading your notes it seems that you have skipped the copper sword in the cave that was shown in the unfinished run posted earlier in this thread. That is a good route adjustment, as I recall it doing less damage than the boomerang and wastes time in going to get it.
I can't recall exactly if Geyzer had a fixed pattern, but every 3 or 4 moves he'll attack with the curse. Been a while since I played this so can't remember if it was 3 or 4.

Look forward to seeing any videos you post and reading any updates and additional notes that you make. The notes are a good touch too to keep track of everything.

Good luck with this. Tough game and a tough game to run. Looking at your notes I have a few questions about the beginning of your route:

The One Knight Stand fight can be quite tough, even at level 3. Do you have a strategy for him at level 2? I recall that I tried something similar and needed more than 2 medicinal herbs and still lost on multiple attempts. 
Why apply the skill points to the sword? Would spear not be more beneficial for later on in the run when you need the spear techniques to kill metal slimes?
From reading your notes it seems that you have skipped the copper sword in the cave that was shown in the unfinished run posted earlier in this thread. That is a good route adjustment, as I recall it doing less damage than the boomerang and wastes time in going to get it. 
I can't recall exactly if Geyzer had a fixed pattern, but every 3 or 4 moves he'll attack with the curse. Been a while since I played this so can't remember if it was 3 or 4. 
 
Look forward to seeing any videos you post and reading any updates and additional notes that you make. The notes are a good touch too to keep track of everything.

BayouBillyBones

Edit history:

BayouBillyBones: 2014-02-04 09:57:49 pm

BayouBillyBones: 2014-02-04 05:51:50 am

2014-02-04 05:44:46 am

Life's short. Get a dog.

Glad to hear someone else is interested in this game. I've actually been working on a segemented run (like probably 20 other people through the years.) I'd love to share ideas.

Few points:
1. the other big difference in the American version is that they patched a number of glitches, most notably, you can't go out of bounds with the boat ramp anymore. Going OOB could be huge if we can use it to get to the "godbird only" areas early and hunt LMS at night. But, The only place I know of where you can go out of bounds in the NA version is

The problem is that it's in a town so the game hasn't loaded anything else for you to get to. But, if we can wiggle through a corner on the world map, we might be able to get to areas we aren't supposed to.

2.As to the route in general, it looks like the japanese DQ8RTA community has been mainly running sword, but a few people have been running spear and it has the fastest time, which confirms what we always thought: spear is the way to go for hero. The commentary video you linked in the google doc is actually a spears run, not a swords run.

3. It takes longer to run from enemies out on the path rather than inside a dungeon since the game requires that the characters completely run out of frame, so random battles on the world map are worse in everyway.

4. Specific notes through Geyser:
a.) it's possible to beat One Knight Stand at level one, but you have to burn so many herbs that it's not worth it. So, getting to level 2 by the time you face him is a must. If you've had bad enemies on the way to waterfall and need to initiate an encounter, the encounter rate seems to be 30-50% greater in the woods rather than on the path. Slimes are the worst enemies, they give almost no XP. Candy cats are probably my favorite since they give more XP and spend the whole time licking themselves.

b.) cypress stick only sells for 5 gold coins, so it almost doesn't seem worth the time to grab it and go through your inventory to sell it, but it depends on the
route. I think I'd rather grab some of the gold in the back room at the fortune teller's while getting the quest as there is an extra herb there as well.

c.)Unless you get a second monster coin out of it, I don't know why you would refight OKS on your way into waterfall. You should be leveled enough already by the time you get to geyser.

c.) totally with you about skipping the sword, it costs a minute and if you're chimera-ing back to farebury you should already be right at 5 +1-2 when you fight Geyser and you already have a better weapon.

d.) For segmented I've been trying a slightly different route: loot everything on your way in farebury (including pot lid/herb in church and seed of defense behind it.) Then equip shield and pot lid and sell everything not equipped for herbs. I skip the chimera back to Farebury after One Knight Stand for the boomerang and just Zerg rush to Geyser burning herbs the whole way. I fight Geyser with the bad sword instead of the boomerang, and at level 4 instead of 5+. It's a longer, less consistent fight, and I need him to maim my characters right before he dies, because after beating him I take an intentional death due to the next random encounter to get back to the church in Farebury, since I don't have Evac yet. It's considerably faster when it works, but I'm still figuring out if I can afford the loss of all the gold to the church. I should be able to afford a boomerang by Alexandria, especially with selling the club, but I might need the bronze sword just for resale. Also, it would mean delaying the scale armor.

e.)[edit: I'm wrong, you are right.]

f.) I REALLY wish Yangus's skill points went 3, 4, 3 when he levels instead of 3, 3, 4. Because at 7 in fisticuffs he gets an extra +8 agility which would make the Geyser fight so much easier.

g.) Geyser fight strategy is just as you have it, Hero psyche's up to 50 as fast as possible, Yangus heals and attacks when able.

Also, be sure to add the ruined abbey skip: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/583527-dragon-quest-viii-journey-of-the-cursed-king/65225579

Glad to hear someone else is interested in this game.  I've actually been working on a segemented run (like probably 20 other people through the years.)  I'd love to share ideas.

Few points:
1. the other big difference in the American version is that they patched a number of glitches, most notably, you can't go out of bounds with the boat ramp anymore.  Going OOB could be huge if we can use it to get to the "godbird only" areas early and hunt LMS at night.  But, The only place I know of where you can go out of bounds in the NA version is 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfp9Io6vTek.  
The problem is that it's in a town so the game hasn't loaded anything else for you to get to.  But, if we can wiggle through a corner on the world map, we might be able to get to areas we aren't supposed to.

2.As to the route in general, it looks like the japanese DQ8RTA community has been mainly running sword, but a few people have been running spear and it has the fastest time, which confirms what we always thought: spear is the way to go for hero.  The commentary video you linked in the google doc is actually a spears run, not a swords run.

3. It takes longer to run from enemies out on the path rather than inside a dungeon since the game requires that the characters completely run out of frame, so random battles on the world map are worse in everyway.

4. Specific notes through Geyser:
a.) it's possible to beat One Knight Stand at level one, but you have to burn so many herbs that it's not worth it.  So, getting to level 2 by the time you face him is a must.  If you've had bad enemies on the way to waterfall and need to initiate an encounter, the encounter rate seems to be 30-50% greater in the woods rather than on the path.  Slimes are the worst enemies, they give almost no XP.  Candy cats are probably my favorite since they give more XP and spend the whole time licking themselves.

b.) cypress stick only sells for 5 gold coins, so it almost doesn't seem worth the time to grab it and go through your inventory to sell it, but it depends on the 
route. I think I'd rather grab some of the gold in the back room at the fortune teller's while getting the quest as there is an extra herb there as well.

c.)Unless you get a second monster coin out of it, I don't know why you would refight OKS on your way into waterfall.  You should be leveled enough already by the time you get to geyser.

c.) totally with you about skipping the sword, it costs a minute and if you're chimera-ing back to farebury you should already be right at 5 +1-2 when you fight Geyser and you already have a better weapon.

d.) For segmented I've been trying a slightly different route: loot everything on your way in farebury (including pot lid/herb in church and seed of defense behind it.)  Then equip shield and pot lid and sell everything not equipped for herbs.  I skip the chimera back to Farebury after One Knight Stand for the boomerang and just Zerg rush to Geyser burning herbs the whole way.  I fight Geyser with the bad sword instead of the boomerang, and at level 4 instead of 5+.  It's a longer, less consistent fight, and I need him to maim my characters right before he dies, because after beating him I take an intentional death due to the next random encounter to get back to the church in Farebury, since I don't have Evac yet.  It's considerably faster when it works, but I'm still figuring out if I can afford the loss of all the gold to the church.  I should be able to afford a boomerang by Alexandria, especially with selling the club, but I might need the bronze sword just for resale.  Also, it would mean delaying the scale armor.

e.)[edit: I'm wrong, you are right.]

f.) I REALLY wish Yangus's skill points went 3, 4, 3 when he levels instead of 3, 3, 4.  Because at 7 in fisticuffs he gets an extra +8 agility which would make the Geyser fight so much easier.

g.) Geyser fight strategy is just as you have it, Hero psyche's up to 50 as fast as possible, Yangus heals and attacks when able.

Also, be sure to add the ruined abbey skip: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/583527-dragon-quest-viii-journey-of-the-cursed-king/65225579

Falcon_Punch1001

2014-02-04 06:49:31 am

Wouldn't skipping tortured soul make you lose out on some EXP? Or would the plan just be to grind extra metal slimes to make up for it? Or skip the EXP entirely? I don't know enough about level distribution throughout the game yet to really tell.

On the note of skills, it seems that each Japanese runner has a somewhat different route for skill points, which is confusing. I haven't watched through an entire run yet, but what I've seen makes me think that Sword vs Spear isn't a /huge/ difference.

For perspective, the top 2 times on the Nico RTA wiki are 9:52:59 by ラス and 9:53:59 by braster. The 9:52 uses spears and the 9:53 uses swords. I feel like the difference between the times isn't the difference between sword and spear, but more what luck they got at points in the game. Metal slime grinding seems to be use holy water even when you have thunder thrust/metal slash, since it's a guaranteed 1 damage to metal enemies.

Also, from what I can gather, the re-fight of One Knight Stand is for safety purposes, in order to get that bit extra EXP/Gold.

I don't know how a segmented run would approach this game, but wouldn't the lack of a boomerang make randoms that you fight slower? I have no idea how you'd handle randoms and leveling though, if you even attempt it at all.

Wouldn't skipping tortured soul make you lose out on some EXP? Or would the plan just be to grind extra metal slimes to make up for it? Or skip the EXP entirely? I don't know enough about level distribution throughout the game yet to really tell.

On the note of skills, it seems that each Japanese runner has a somewhat different route for skill points, which is confusing. I haven't watched through an entire run yet, but what I've seen makes me think that Sword vs Spear isn't a /huge/ difference.

For perspective, the top 2 times on the Nico RTA wiki are 9:52:59 by ラス and 9:53:59 by braster. The 9:52 uses spears and the 9:53 uses swords. I feel like the difference between the times isn't the difference between sword and spear, but more what luck they got at points in the game. Metal slime grinding seems to be use holy water even when you have thunder thrust/metal slash, since it's a guaranteed 1 damage to metal enemies.

Also, from what I can gather, the re-fight of One Knight Stand is for safety purposes, in order to get that bit extra EXP/Gold.

I don't know how a segmented run would approach this game, but wouldn't the lack of a boomerang make randoms that you fight slower? I have no idea how you'd handle randoms and leveling though, if you even attempt it at all.

Dreamboum

2014-02-04 09:47:51 am

Wow, thanks for all this information ! Like Falcon said, each japanese runner seems to have a different route. Atm, I'm taking the sword route like the 9h58 video, It might be slower overall but I want to take it to the end and think of some optimization after it's finished just to have a general idea (even though the fixed glitches would make this kinda impossible to finish ? lol)

I'll think of ditching the cypress stick. I thought at first that beating OKS again would give you enough experience and make you avoid the hammer guy but it doesn't seem to be worth it.

Your geyzer strat might also works, I need to look more into it. I "think" his pattern goes like this : cursed mist, claw attack, regular attack, cursed mist, frizz, regular, cursed mist, claw, regular, etc. I still need more testing but it would allow me to make sure that Hero survives through the fight (defending after the claw attack since he retaliates immediately with a regular attack).

My main concern would be skill points management, it is going to be kinda hard to keep track of it especially with all the grinding that happens but I'll let you know when I'm lost. Anyway, I'll give you guys an update in the next few days (probably after the FF relay race) and maybe a video of the route up to geyzer. Thanks a lot guys, it's good to see that there's people working on it.

Wow, thanks for all this information ! Like Falcon said, each japanese runner seems to have a different route. Atm, I'm taking the sword route like the 9h58 video, It might be slower overall but I want to take it to the end and think of some optimization after it's finished just to have a general idea (even though the fixed glitches would make this kinda impossible to finish ? lol)

I'll think of ditching the cypress stick. I thought at first that beating OKS again would give you enough experience and make you avoid the hammer guy but it doesn't seem to be worth it.

Your geyzer strat might also works, I need to look more into it. I "think" his pattern goes like this : cursed mist, claw attack, regular attack, cursed mist, frizz, regular, cursed mist, claw, regular, etc. I still need more testing but it would allow me to make sure that Hero survives through the fight (defending after the claw attack since he retaliates immediately with a regular attack).

My main concern would be skill points management, it is going to be kinda hard to keep track of it especially with all the grinding that happens but I'll let you know when I'm lost. Anyway, I'll give you guys an update in the next few days (probably after the FF relay race) and maybe a video of the route up to geyzer. Thanks a lot guys, it's good to see that there's people working on it.

BayouBillyBones

Edit history:

BayouBillyBones: 2014-02-04 09:58:25 pm

BayouBillyBones: 2014-02-04 09:56:55 pm

BayouBillyBones: 2014-02-04 06:29:46 pm

2014-02-04 02:18:43 pm

Life's short. Get a dog.

Quote from Falcon_Punch1001:

Snip

In order:
1. One metal slime gives twice the exp of tortured soul. One LMS gives 20 times the exp. Also tortured soul is a bit of a gatekeeper, so the skip should be beneficial in the long run, but I don't know if anyone has pulled it off on console.

2. You are right. I am wrong. Didn't see that improved sword run. That definitely makes things more interesting.

3. OKS only gives 28 experience and 15 gold. While that might enable you to run away from a few encounters in the cave, if you already have the boomerang the enemies in the cave should fall quickly so it probably won't save time and will cost you some of the herbs that have to last you up to geyser.

4. Lack of a boomerang makes the encounters in the cave last longer, but saves time in the end because you don't have the extra loading time into farebury, into the weapon shop, out of the weapon shop, and the three random encounters on the way back to waterfall. They sell boomerangs in the next town, and holy water should help keep the encounters on the way there down. But, I will have to do more tests to see what time it costs down the line.

~~Dreamboum, I'm very interested if you can find a geyser pattern.~~ Let us know if you start streaming so we can tune in.

[edit: nm. Just fought him 4 times and gave him 20 turns each time. His pattern is just as you stated: mist, claw, regular, mist, magic, regular, etc. Seemed to be an even split on which party member he attacks, no matter what their action or status.]

[quote="Falcon_Punch1001"]Snip[/quote]
In order:
1. One metal slime gives twice the exp of tortured soul.  One LMS gives 20 times the exp.  Also tortured soul is a bit of a gatekeeper, so the skip should be beneficial in the long run, but I don't know if anyone has pulled it off on console.

2. You are right.  I am wrong.  Didn't see that improved sword run.  That definitely makes things more interesting.

3. OKS only gives 28 experience and 15 gold. While that might enable you to run away from a few encounters in the cave, if you already have the boomerang the enemies in the cave should fall quickly so it probably won't save time and will cost you some of the herbs that have to last you up to geyser.

4. Lack of a boomerang makes the encounters in the cave last longer, but saves time in the end because you don't have the extra loading time into farebury, into the weapon shop, out of the weapon shop, and the three random encounters on the way back to waterfall.  They sell boomerangs in the next town, and holy water should help keep the encounters on the way there down.  But, I will have to do more tests to see what time it costs down the line.

[s]Dreamboum, I'm very interested if you can find a geyser pattern.  [/s] Let us know if you start streaming so we can tune in.

[edit: nm.  Just fought him 4 times and gave him 20 turns each time.  His pattern is just as you stated: mist, claw, regular, mist, magic, regular, etc.  Seemed to be an even split on which party member he attacks, no matter what their action or status.]

BayouBillyBones

2014-02-09 01:05:45 am

Life's short. Get a dog.

Notes from a few hours with the game today:

Geyser has become a joke at level 4 even with the starting sword: defend the claw attack, psych up hero to 50 while healing with yangus, attack at 50 tension just in time to defend the next claw attack. Also, depending on which encounters I get on the way in, I can skip Hammerhood and still be at level 4 for the geyser fight.

I timed the japanese route vs. the intentional death route in the NA version, and the good news is that intentional death route was at least 5 minutes shorter across runs and is now very consistent. The bad news was that the barebones japanese version of the game runs so much faster that even with the route being more than 5 minutes faster, they are still ahead real time after geyser.

Looking ahead, there is nothing to be afraid of until khalamari. The Japanese runs take the fight at level 8 and have pretty good gear. Getting there as quickly as possible had me still at level 5 with almost starting gear. The low level community over at gamefaq's managed to win it at levels 1 and 4:
But they were aided by gear and lots of resets.
Ways to get gold along the way:
Two monster coins are on the way to port prospect: buffalo bill (probably not a winnable fight in an RTA since he seems to always go first and can two shot) and Curer (easy fight, psych up to 50 and swing.) Together they sell for 400 gold coins. Add another $200 if you never sold the OKS coin.
Woman in front of the lighthouse in port prospect sells you a strong medicine for 10 gold and you can sell it for 88. Also, there's always the detour for the copper sword in waterfall, it costs a full minute, but provides 135 gold in return.

Notes from a few hours with the game today:

Geyser has become a joke at level 4 even with the starting sword:  defend the claw attack, psych up hero to 50 while healing with yangus, attack at 50 tension just in time to defend the next claw attack.  Also, depending on which encounters I get on the way in, I can skip Hammerhood and still be at level 4 for the geyser fight.

I timed the japanese route vs. the intentional death route in the NA version, and the good news is that intentional death route was at least 5 minutes shorter across runs and is now very consistent.  The bad news was that the barebones japanese version of the game runs so much faster that even with the route being more than 5 minutes faster, they are still ahead real time after geyser.

Looking ahead, there is nothing to be afraid of until khalamari.  The Japanese runs take the fight at level 8 and have pretty good gear.  Getting there as quickly as possible had me still at level 5 with almost starting gear.  The low level community over at gamefaq's managed to win it at levels 1 and 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkwruGNFbtQ  
But they were aided by gear and lots of resets.
Ways to get gold along the way:
Two monster coins are on the way to port prospect: buffalo bill (probably not a winnable fight in an RTA since he seems to always go first and can two shot) and Curer (easy fight, psych up to 50 and swing.) Together they sell for 400 gold coins.  Add another $200 if you never sold the OKS coin.
Woman in front of the lighthouse in port prospect sells you a strong medicine for 10 gold and you can sell it for 88.  Also, there's always the detour for the copper sword in waterfall, it costs a full minute, but provides 135 gold in return.

Reaver

2014-02-09 11:39:04 am

There is an intentional death route? Is it just a route or has someone actually done this run? Anyone have a link too it?

After watching the Japanese run I can say I am quite bad at this game. I can never survive at such a low level.

Dreamboum

2014-02-09 10:28:45 pm

Quote from Reaver:

There is an intentional death route? Is it just a route or has someone actually done this run? Anyone have a link too it?

Yes, he was talking about his strat :

Quote from BayouBillyBones:

d.) For segmented I've been trying a slightly different route: loot everything on your way in farebury (including pot lid/herb in church and seed of defense behind it.) Then equip shield and pot lid and sell everything not equipped for herbs. I skip the chimera back to Farebury after One Knight Stand for the boomerang and just Zerg rush to Geyser burning herbs the whole way. I fight Geyser with the bad sword instead of the boomerang, and at level 4 instead of 5+. It's a longer, less consistent fight, and I need him to maim my characters right before he dies, because after beating him I take an intentional death due to the next random encounter to get back to the church in Farebury, since I don't have Evac yet. It's considerably faster when it works, but I'm still figuring out if I can afford the loss of all the gold to the church. I should be able to afford a boomerang by Alexandria, especially with selling the club, but I might need the bronze sword just for resale. Also, it would mean delaying the scale armor.

Anyway, now that the FF relay race is done, I can finally dedicate myself into DQ8. My notes are now up to Khalamari, the second boss.

Here's what the JP run is doing in a nutshell :

- Equip the scale armour and the scale shield to Hero so he can survive through Alexandria's Tower and Khalamari (!!)
- Yangus died before he went to the tower, I have yet to determine if it's a mistake or if it helps making escapes more successful
- Only fight the Family Doctor (the Curer slime) for the Monster coin
- Buys the Stone Axe for Yangus

Now, for the fun part, Khalamari also has a fixed pattern, it is : Flame Breath, Tentacle Hit, Tentacle Sweep, Tentacle Hit, Tentacle Sweep, Tentacle hit, repeat
What you have to do is also fixed, the only difference is that you have to heal the one who takes the attack (which is random). You also prevent yourself from being very low HP by using herb and heal before Khalamari's action (before the flame breath). The goal is to psyche up Yangus to 50 and then use Helm Splitter. You have to do this three times. Stats also plays a huge role in this boss fight, because Hero often gets his HP down to exactly 1 (a sweep and a hit for example) so you ned Hero and Yangus to be level 7 and 8 respectively.

Here's the turn order of the fight, it is kinda long so I'll put it into spoilers :

Turn 1 : Yangus herb himself, Hero defend
Flame Breath

Turn 2 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 5
Tentacle Hit

Turn 3 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 20
Tentacle Sweep

Turn 4 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 50
Tentacle Hit

Turn 5 : Hero Heal/Defend, Yangus Helm Splitter
Tentacle Sweep

Turn 6 : Complete heal
Tentacle hit

Turn 7 : Hero Defend, Yangus herb
Flame Breath

Turn 8 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 5
Tentacle Hit

Turn 9 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 20
Tentacle Sweep

Turn 10 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 50
Tentacle Hit

Turn 11 : Hero Heal, Yangus Helm Splitter
Tentacle Sweep

Turn 12 : Complete Heal
Tentacle Hit

Turn 13 : Hero defend, Yangus herb
Flame Breath

Turn 14 : Hero defend, Yangus herb
Tentacle Hit

Turn 15 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 5
Tentacle Sweep

Turn 16 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 20
Tentacle Hit

Turn 17 : Hero Defend, Yangus Psyche up 50
Tentacle Sweep

Turn 18 : Hero Defend, Yangus HelM Splitter
Tentacle Hit

Turn 19 : Hero Defend, Yangus attack
Tentacle Sweep

It seems it is the only way to get rid of this boss because of MP management (Hero cannot heal at every turn, he only has 29MP) so Hero needs to defend instead. I know that there is a loop at the same time his pattern goes back to Flame Breath but I'll keep it that way until I learn how do it quickly enough.

Now, I believe it's near impossible for a multi-segment to take out Khalamari if he's under the levels I stated above with the same gear, so you'll probably need to get gears like in the youtube video. Like you said there is the buffalo that can drop a 200G Monster Coin but I can't really think of anything else, since the RTA run doesn't have a single penny after the purchase of a Stone Axe and you'll need far more than that to take him out.

In any case, I really wonder how many bosses have a fixed pattern, I know that some boss doesn't have one like the final boss, I'll look more into it.

Oh and, here's my twitch stream, I'm going to try to stream some DQ8 more often but it's mostly going to be bad :p

[quote="Reaver"]There is an intentional death route? Is it just a route or has someone actually done this run? Anyone have a link too it?  [/quote]

Yes, he was talking about his strat : 
[quote="BayouBillyBones"]d.) For segmented I've been trying a slightly different route: loot everything on your way in farebury (including pot lid/herb in church and seed of defense behind it.)  Then equip shield and pot lid and sell everything not equipped for herbs.  I skip the chimera back to Farebury after One Knight Stand for the boomerang and just Zerg rush to Geyser burning herbs the whole way.  I fight Geyser with the bad sword instead of the boomerang, and at level 4 instead of 5+.  It's a longer, less consistent fight, and I need him to maim my characters right before he dies, because after beating him I take an intentional death due to the next random encounter to get back to the church in Farebury, since I don't have Evac yet.  It's considerably faster when it works, but I'm still figuring out if I can afford the loss of all the gold to the church.  I should be able to afford a boomerang by Alexandria, especially with selling the club, but I might need the bronze sword just for resale.  Also, it would mean delaying the scale armor. [/quote]

Anyway, now that the FF relay race is done, I can finally dedicate myself into DQ8. My notes are now up to [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/11_ZdpZWE0u9hsQGhBpbKMTEXUlyUIEHizaiejZx0vPY/edit#]Khalamari, the second boss[/url].

Here's what the JP run is doing in a nutshell :

- Equip the scale armour and the scale shield to Hero so he can survive through Alexandria's Tower and Khalamari (!!)
- Yangus died before he went to the tower, I have yet to determine if it's a mistake or if it helps making escapes more successful 
- Only fight the Family Doctor (the Curer slime) for the Monster coin
- Buys the Stone Axe for Yangus

Now, for the fun part, Khalamari also has a fixed pattern, it is : [b]Flame Breath[/b], [b]Tentacle Hit[/b],[b] Tentacle Sweep[/b], [b]Tentacle Hit[/b], [b]Tentacle Sweep[/b],[b] Tentacle hit[/b], repeat
What you have to do is also fixed, the only difference is that you have to heal the one who takes the attack (which is random). You also prevent yourself from being very low HP by using herb and heal before Khalamari's action (before the flame breath). The goal is to psyche up Yangus to 50 and then use Helm Splitter. You have to do this three times. Stats also plays a huge role in this boss fight, because Hero often gets his HP down to exactly 1 (a sweep and a hit for example) so you ned Hero and Yangus to be level 7 and 8 respectively.

Here's the turn order of the fight, it is kinda long so I'll put it into spoilers : 
[hidden="Turn Order"]

Turn 1 : Yangus herb himself, Hero defend
Flame Breath

Turn 2 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 5
Tentacle Hit

Turn 3 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 20
Tentacle Sweep

Turn 4 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 50
Tentacle Hit

Turn 5 : Hero Heal/Defend, Yangus Helm Splitter
Tentacle Sweep

Turn 6 : Complete heal
Tentacle hit

Turn 7 : Hero Defend, Yangus herb
Flame Breath

Turn 8 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 5
Tentacle Hit

Turn 9 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 20
Tentacle Sweep

Turn 10 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 50
Tentacle Hit

Turn 11 : Hero Heal, Yangus Helm Splitter
Tentacle Sweep

Turn 12 : Complete Heal
Tentacle Hit

Turn 13 : Hero defend, Yangus herb
Flame Breath

Turn 14 : Hero defend, Yangus herb
Tentacle Hit

Turn 15 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 5
Tentacle Sweep

Turn 16 : Hero Heal, Yangus Psyche up 20
Tentacle Hit

Turn 17 : Hero Defend, Yangus Psyche up 50
Tentacle Sweep

Turn 18 : Hero Defend, Yangus HelM Splitter
Tentacle Hit

Turn 19 : Hero Defend, Yangus attack
Tentacle Sweep
[/hidden]

It seems it is the only way to get rid of this boss because of MP management (Hero cannot heal at every turn, he only has 29MP) so Hero needs to defend instead. I know that there is a loop at the same time his pattern goes back to Flame Breath but I'll keep it that way until I learn how do it quickly enough.

Now, I believe it's near impossible for a multi-segment to take out Khalamari if he's under the levels I stated above with the same gear, so you'll probably need to get gears like in the youtube video. Like you said there is the buffalo that can drop a 200G Monster Coin but I can't really think of anything else, since the RTA run doesn't have a single penny after the purchase of a Stone Axe and you'll need far more than that to take him out.

In any case, I really wonder how many bosses have a fixed pattern, I know that some boss doesn't have one like the final boss, I'll look more into it.

Oh and, here's my [url=http://www.twitch.tv/dreamboum]twitch stream[/url], I'm going to try to stream some DQ8 more often but it's mostly going to be bad :p

BayouBillyBones

2014-02-12 12:06:54 am

Life's short. Get a dog.

Ok. Had some more time with the game today.
My thoughts:
The yangus death seems accidental. Only hero has to be alive and at lvl 6 to complete the tower so it wasn't run ending.
Here's my route after the leaving farebury to khalamari:

Doused with holy water, ran from everything until across the bridge. Grabbed the slime earings. Fought a gang between the earings and Alexandria.
In Alexandria, empty pockets, sell slime earrings, and OKS coin for axe. Will have to see whether it is best to fight Buffalo Bill at this point or later:

pro's: extra experience means I am more likely to hit level 6 in time to evac from the tower.
con's: saving at this point means re-doing munchee event everytime I retry the segment, which will be annoying since, statistically, it will take 100 attempts to beat Buffalo bill at this level. Also, if something goes wrong in the tower...hello another 100 attempts. Not to mention the fight itself is 6-8 turns.

Run through tower, grab shield and little else. Warp back to Alexandria. Sell Buffalo bill coin and empty pockets for scale armor (buy in port prospect if not enough money.) Run to port prospect. Detour to beach to fight family doctor (curer). Run up beach toward port prospect, grab seed, arrive in Port Prospect.

By the time I got to port prospect I had enough cash to fill every inventory with herbs, upgrade the leather shield to scale, and even get Yangus a leather kilt. My quest for cash had me reaching port prospect at level 7 with Hero and Yangus, which, along with all the gear, made the khalamari fight actually easier than cowboy. I think I took him out on the third or fourth attempt? without much of a strategy except herb/heal early and often and make sure hero was fully healed before flame. Hero was just made of glass, though, even with the scale shield, scale armor, and the seed of defense from farebury.

My thoughts are that maybe I'm overdoing it on gear a little bit and it's better making more Khalamari attempts and saving the gold for down the road in the hopes for an early spear (specifically not getting the leather kilt since Yangus seemed like a survivor during every attempt.)

Now, what this means for a RTA run: I think the intentional death after Geyzer could still be a time saver, but you would want to detour for the copper sword for later cash, since you won't be able to beat cowboy. With this detour, it might be possible ot reach 5+ before geyzer, but it would take a toll on your herbs. The good news with this route, is that you get to use helm splitter on everything very early...the bad news is that you can't wreck shop with the boomerang and have to ensure you go from level 5 to 6 before you reach the top of Alexandria tower. Then, fight curer for scale armor money, and level up with the stronger enemies up the beach on your way to port prospect so that you reach PP at level 8/7 or 8/8. So the 4-5 minutes saved in farebury might cost you some time heading to PP since you won't be able to wreck gangs as fast.

Here was where my gold was coming from through the segment:
200 slime earrings
200 OKS coin
200 buffalo coin
200 family doctor coin
+ reselling everything I still had, i.e. club for 55, pot lid for 20, etc.

Also, the japanese run reaches Khalamari at 1:13 which means a little over 1/2 an hour to do all of this and watch all the cut scenes. Alright, then. I did notice that their cut scene with Bangerz at the tower is considerably shorter than ours.

I wasn't planning on streaming any of this until I was doing segment attempts. But, I might turn it on, if only to have a record of the route.

Also, side note: for some reason it's always getting dark right as I enter alexandria. I really have to book it to make it to Jessica's before the sun goes down and it' impossible to enter. I haven't seen this be an issue in any other runs. I think it may have something to do with my skipping a trip to the inn.

Ok.  Had some more time with the game today. 
My thoughts:
The yangus death seems accidental.  Only hero has to be alive and at lvl 6 to complete the tower so it wasn't run ending.
 Here's my route after the leaving farebury to khalamari:

Doused with holy water, ran from everything until across the bridge.  Grabbed the slime earings.  Fought a gang between the earings and Alexandria.  
In Alexandria, empty pockets, sell slime earrings, and OKS coin for axe. Will have to see whether it is best to fight Buffalo Bill at this point or later:

pro's: extra experience means I am more likely to hit level 6 in time to evac from the tower.
con's: saving at this point means re-doing munchee event everytime I retry the segment, which will be annoying since, statistically, it will take 100 attempts to beat Buffalo bill at this level.  Also, if something goes wrong in the tower...hello another 100 attempts.  Not to mention the fight itself is 6-8 turns.

Run through tower, grab shield and little else.  Warp back to Alexandria.  Sell Buffalo bill coin and empty pockets for scale armor (buy in port prospect if not enough money.)  Run to port prospect.  Detour to beach to fight family doctor (curer).    Run up beach toward port prospect, grab seed, arrive in Port Prospect.

By the time I got to port prospect I had enough cash to fill every inventory with herbs, upgrade the leather shield to scale, and even get Yangus a leather kilt.  My quest for cash had me reaching port prospect at level 7 with Hero and Yangus, which, along with all the gear, made the khalamari fight actually easier than cowboy.  I think I took him out on the third or fourth attempt? without much of a strategy except herb/heal early and often and make sure hero was fully healed before flame.   Hero was just made of glass, though, even with the scale shield, scale armor, and the seed of defense from farebury.

My thoughts are that maybe I'm overdoing it on gear a little bit and it's better making more Khalamari attempts and saving the gold for down the road in the hopes for an early spear (specifically not getting the leather kilt since Yangus seemed like a survivor during every attempt.)

Now, what this means for a RTA run:  I think the intentional death after Geyzer could still be a time saver, but you would want to detour for the copper sword for later cash, since you won't be able to beat cowboy.  With this detour, it might be possible ot reach 5+ before geyzer, but it would take a toll on your herbs.  The good news with this route, is that you get to use helm splitter on everything very early...the bad news is that you can't wreck shop with the boomerang and have to ensure you go from level 5 to 6 before you reach the top of Alexandria tower.  Then, fight curer for scale armor money, and level up with the stronger enemies up the beach on your way to port prospect so that you reach PP at level 8/7 or 8/8.  So the 4-5 minutes saved in farebury might cost you some time heading to PP since you won't be able to wreck gangs as fast.

Here was where my gold was coming from through the segment:
200 slime earrings
200 OKS coin
200 buffalo coin
200 family doctor coin
+ reselling everything I still had, i.e. club for 55, pot lid for 20, etc.

Also, the japanese run reaches Khalamari at 1:13 which means a little over 1/2 an hour to do all of this and watch all the cut scenes.  Alright, then.  I did notice that their cut scene with Bangerz at the tower is considerably shorter than ours.

I wasn't planning on streaming any of this until I was doing segment attempts.  But, I might turn it on, if only to have a record of the route.

Also, side note: for some reason it's always getting dark right as I enter alexandria.  I really have to book it to make it to Jessica's before the sun goes down and it' impossible to enter.  I haven't seen this be an issue in any other runs.  I think it may have something to do with my skipping a trip to the inn.

BayouBillyBones

2014-02-13 01:46:32 am

Life's short. Get a dog.

Update: After some more work today I have the following updates:

When you get to the tower talk to bangerz instead of trying the door yourself, no matter what Bangerz tells you to do, it is faster.

The fight with khalamari is possible at level 6, but the fight takes so long, so much luck, and so many herbs that it would be faster leveling to 7 before taking it on. Beach enemies give very good experience and they are on the way to family docotor, so no matter what the route, I think a slight detour toward the beach is in order.

Random Khalamari note: the character in the 2nd slot seems to take more damage from fire breath, so make sure hero is in the first slot to protect him. At level 7, with scale shields for both characters and scale armor for hero, the khalamari fight is manageable.

As far as gold, I'm swimming in it after taking out buffalo bill. I can buy everything even without the bill fight. I would like to skip that fight if I don't need the gold down the line as it takes a bunch of herbs and time to get the fight done. The extra gold could open up alchemy possiblities like a snakeskin whip for Jessica as soon as it's done cooking.

Also, I still need to make a decision about whether or not to grab copper sword in waterfall. It's a net loss in waterfall, and I don't need the gold if I take out bill.

Time comparison: a decent run involving buffalo bill kill, seed of strength by family doctor, leveling to 7, and killing khalamari puts me about 2-3 minutes behind the japanese RTA when the boat shoves off for Peregrin Quay. So they have gained ground in this segment if I include the Buffalo Bill kill.

Also, it looks like some of the Nico RTAs are "segmented" with segment one ending when Angelo joins the party and the next segment being an hour and a half of metal slime farming.

Update:  After some more work today I have the following updates:

When you get to the tower talk to bangerz instead of trying the door yourself, no matter what Bangerz tells you to do, it is faster.

The fight with khalamari is possible at level 6, but the fight takes so long, so much luck, and so many herbs that it would be faster leveling to 7 before taking it on.  Beach enemies give very good experience and they are on the way to family docotor, so no matter what the route, I think a slight detour toward the beach is in order.

Random Khalamari note: the character in the 2nd slot seems to take more damage from fire breath, so make sure hero is in the first slot to protect him.  At level 7, with scale shields for both characters and scale armor for hero, the khalamari fight is manageable.

As far as gold, I'm swimming in it after taking out buffalo bill.  I can buy everything even without the bill fight.  I would like to skip that fight if I don't need the gold down the line as it takes a bunch of herbs and time to get the fight done.  The extra gold could open up alchemy possiblities like a snakeskin whip for Jessica as soon as it's done cooking.

Also, I still need to make a decision about whether or not to grab copper sword in waterfall.  It's a net loss in waterfall, and I don't need the gold if I take out bill.

Time comparison: a decent run involving buffalo bill kill, seed of strength by family doctor, leveling to 7, and killing khalamari puts me about 2-3 minutes behind the japanese RTA when the boat shoves off for Peregrin Quay.  So they have gained ground in this segment if I include the Buffalo Bill kill.

Also, it looks like some of the Nico RTAs are "segmented" with segment one ending when Angelo joins the party and the next segment being an hour and a half of metal slime farming.

Dreamboum

2014-02-13 02:24:36 am

I will definitely take a note at the intentional death stategy when I can. I still need the boomerang because I want to make it into a reinforced boomerang and sell it later to buy Holy Waters

Quote from bayoubillybones:

Random Khalamari note: the character in the 2nd slot seems to take more damage from fire breath, so make sure hero is in the first slot to protect him.

Interesting, I don't know what causes that, I thought it was because Yangus doesn't have the same gear as hero (who has the scale armour/shield in the RTA). I'll make sure that Hero stays at first position.

I also have done a lot of progress, I am now at Trodain when it comes to routing, I'll make sure to post a big update when I'll have the time to do so, but everything can be find in the gdoc that I linked earlier.

BayouBillyBones

2014-02-14 12:11:42 am

Life's short. Get a dog.

I watched your stream tonight. It really seems like there is a difference in metal slime encounters in ruined abbey between US and JP. Or they know some manipulation we aren't picking up on...or Japan has REALLY been grinding this game and done so many runs that they have had time for extreme luck.

This game just thwarts speed at every turn. Everytime I work out a possible exploit the game just shuts it down. For instance, there is a infamous monster on the way to alexandria tower who spawns in one of four places, each of which are on the way between farebury and port prospect who gives 1k exp and a gold monster coin. Both of which would be godlike at this stage of the game. But, he doesn't appear until after you have opened the arena....Routing this game seems to be "hey, there's this really cool thing over here, just a little bit too far away to be worth your while."

That, and the japanese route is really tight. Even with the aid of hundreds of rests, every time I find time at the beginning it seeems to get lost later. Current strategy I'm working on: intentional death at alexandria tower, which takes you back to farebury. Leave farebury at the side exit and walk a minute to hackzilla. Beat hackzilla for the 500 gold coin and 100 exp, grab the seed of life, warp to alexandria. This would enable level 6, a boomerang and axe before the long walk to port prospect during which I would level to 7 and could grab the copper coin from the family doctor. That puts me at port prospect a bit under 1:20, equipped and leveled to take on khalamari. Meanwhile, the japanese run is there at 1:13, which is just ridiculous considering we were neck and neck after geyser. I have much more gold and better gear, but the japanese run has more EXP. Now that I have a few options for the first half, I'm learning the second half of the trapbox run now.

Big time savings I see down the line: ruined abbey skip. Optimized metal slime farm. Low level trap box kill by jessica poisoning him with dagger. LMS luck manipulation.

List of things to be studied: overworld movement optimization (any difference between characters, does it have anything to do with loading the overworld) munchie movement optimization. Metal slime rates in ruined abbey. Ruined abbey skip. Toxic dagger chances to infect.

As to breath: hackzilla can also cast it and it hits the 2nd character for more, even with higher resilience and defense.

Finally, I need to work on menu-ing as even after 5 something hours of grinding you're still much better than me at it.

I watched your stream tonight.  It really seems like there is a difference in metal slime encounters in ruined abbey between US and JP.   Or they know some manipulation we aren't picking up on...or Japan has REALLY been grinding this game and done so many runs that they have had time for extreme luck.

This game just thwarts speed at every turn.  Everytime I work out a possible exploit the game just shuts it down.  For instance, there is a infamous monster on the way to alexandria tower who spawns in one of  four places, each of which are on the way between farebury and port prospect who gives 1k exp and a gold monster coin.  Both of which would be godlike at this stage of the game.  But, he doesn't appear until after you have opened the arena....Routing this game seems to be "hey, there's this really cool thing over here, just a little bit too far away to be worth your while."

That, and the japanese route is really tight.  Even with the aid of hundreds of rests, every time I find time at the beginning it seeems to get lost later.  Current strategy I'm working on: intentional death at alexandria tower, which takes you back to farebury.  Leave farebury at the side exit and walk a minute to hackzilla.  Beat hackzilla for the 500 gold coin and 100 exp, grab the seed of life, warp to alexandria.  This would enable level 6, a boomerang and axe before the long walk to port prospect during which I would level to 7 and could grab the copper coin from the family doctor.  That puts me at port prospect a bit under 1:20, equipped and leveled to take on khalamari.  Meanwhile, the japanese run is there at 1:13, which is just ridiculous considering we were neck and neck after geyser.  I have much more gold and better gear, but the japanese run has more EXP.  Now that I have a few options for the first half, I'm learning the second half of the trapbox run now.

Big time savings I see down the line: ruined abbey skip.  Optimized metal slime farm.  Low level trap box kill by jessica poisoning him with dagger.  LMS luck manipulation.

List of things to be studied: overworld movement optimization (any difference between characters, does it have anything to do with loading the overworld) munchie movement optimization.  Metal slime rates in ruined abbey.  Ruined abbey skip.  Toxic dagger chances to infect.

As to breath: hackzilla can also cast it and it hits the 2nd character for more, even with higher resilience and defense.

Finally, I need to work on menu-ing as even after 5 something hours of grinding you're still much better than me at it.

Falcon_Punch1001

2014-02-14 12:26:49 am

I'm going to look into metal slime farming a bunch, but I feel like it really is just luck whether you get a good time there or not. A lot of this game seemingly comes down to whether you get lucky or not, and if you don't, whether you take a bad time or reset and start again.

There was what seemed like a DQ8 race on nico the other day, and one of the people participating was running splits (very unusual for Japanese runners, it seems). He was 40 minutes behind after metal slime grinding, using the same strat he would in PB attempts, which makes me think he just got bad luck.

Dreamboum

2014-02-14 03:14:28 am

I don't know about the metal slime encounter rate, it might just comes down to luck, I need more attempts to have a general idea (and maybe try the grinding in the JP version). I also have to work on the Tortured Soul skip and see what is going to change compared to the usual JP route. I'll post an update after I wake up.

Dreamboum

Edit history:

Dreamboum: 2014-02-14 08:02:01 pm

2014-02-14 08:01:28 pm

You shouldn't focus on the JP time too much BayouBilly, the US version have an intro, some pop-up tutorials that loses times and everything that I have mentioned in the google doc.

So, after Khalamari, you are able to use the Alchemy pot, I mix an Iron Nail and a Boomerang in order to get the Reinforced Boomerang which is going to be useful for the next boss and for selling later on. You also mix the Leather Whip and Scale Shield to get a Snakeskin Whip which sells for a whooping 1250G !

After that, you fight Tortured Soul, the battle consists of Psyching up with Hero and Yangus, cast Acceleratle twice with Jessica. Then at 50, you sap his defence with Helm Splitter and attack while you use Jessica as the main healer. The fight shouldn't be too hard but he is one of the boss that have a random pattern so you can have a hard time because of bad luck like getting the back-up and the zombie lowering your tension with attacks.

You mix a bronze knife and iron nail in order to get the thief's knife. You sell as much stuff as you can in order to buy a LOT of Holy water for the grinding. After this you have to grind to lv23 with metal slime and all the luck involved for it. After this, you're pretty much set, you go to Ascantha to talk to the king then go to wisher's peak in order to complete the quest and then go at Pickham, then the Swordsman's Labyrinth to fight Trap Box. This boss is surprisingly easy, he can be quite annoying but all you have to do is cast oomph on everyone with jessica and psyche up to 50 and attack. More information can be found in the gdoc but everything just gets down to Metal Slime grinding to have the needed spells to bust through the rest of the game. There's another grinding spot in Trodain, I'm also sure there are more later in the game.

You shouldn't focus on the JP time too much BayouBilly, the US version have an intro, some pop-up tutorials that loses times and everything that I have mentioned in the google doc.

So, after Khalamari, you are able to use the Alchemy pot, I mix an Iron Nail and a Boomerang in order to get the Reinforced Boomerang which is going to be useful for the next boss and for selling later on. You also mix the Leather Whip and Scale Shield to get a Snakeskin Whip which sells for a whooping 1250G !

After that, you fight Tortured Soul, the battle consists of Psyching up with Hero and Yangus, cast Acceleratle twice with Jessica. Then at 50, you sap his defence with Helm Splitter and attack while you use Jessica as the main healer. The fight shouldn't be too hard but he is one of the boss that have a random pattern so you can have a hard time because of bad luck like getting the back-up and the zombie lowering your tension with attacks.

You mix a bronze knife and iron nail in order to get the thief's knife. You sell as much stuff as you can in order to buy a LOT of Holy water for the grinding. After this you have to grind to lv23 with metal slime and all the luck involved for it. After this, you're pretty much set, you go to Ascantha to talk to the king then go to wisher's peak in order to complete the quest and then go at Pickham, then the Swordsman's Labyrinth to fight Trap Box. This boss is surprisingly easy, he can be quite annoying but all you have to do is cast oomph on everyone with jessica and psyche up to 50 and attack. More information can be found in the gdoc but everything just gets down to Metal Slime grinding to have the needed spells to bust through the rest of the game. There's another grinding spot in Trodain, I'm also sure there are more later in the game.

BayouBillyBones

2014-02-16 02:50:23 am

Life's short. Get a dog.

Beating the JP version time is my goal for the segmented run, which is looking less and less possible even with considerable luck manipulation.

So, here is how my route looks with approximate times from some test runs with sloppy menu-ing and imperfect camera run-pushing
38 minutes - save after intentional death post geyzer back in farebury (My best run was 36 minutes, but Yangus died during geyzer fight which meant pretty disparate EXP for the rest of the run.)
57 minutes - post tower of alexandria cut scenes
1h5m - out front of Alexandria post cut scenes (includes intentional death and 3.5 minute detour to kill hacksaurus)
1h15m - port prospect at levels 7 and 8, loaded with gear and ready to fight khalamari.
1h32 - land at peregrin quay with more gear and about 200 more gold than the japanese route. (And, of course, 16 minutes behind)

Also, I did some testing on the metal slime room. 151 encounters in the dry land immediately to your left when entering and 151 encounters knee deep in the sludge when you first walk in. The encounter rates were 48% and 46.4% respectively. So, no real difference. The only anomaly I noted was that for the first 50 encounters, the rate was dancing in the 55-60% range, before settling into the mid-high 40s for the rest of the 302 encounters. So, it might be that your intial encounter rate is slightly higher upon beginning the grind, or--more likely--I'm staring too hard at too small a sample.

Up next: ruined abbey work.

Beating the JP version time is my goal for the segmented run, which is looking less and less possible even with considerable luck manipulation.

So, here is how my route looks with approximate times from some test runs with sloppy menu-ing and imperfect camera run-pushing
38 minutes - save after intentional death post geyzer back in farebury (My best run was 36 minutes, but Yangus died during geyzer fight which meant pretty disparate EXP for the rest of the run.)
57 minutes - post tower of alexandria cut scenes
1h5m - out front of Alexandria post cut scenes (includes intentional death and 3.5 minute detour to kill hacksaurus)
1h15m - port prospect at levels 7 and 8, loaded with gear and ready to fight khalamari.
1h32 - land at peregrin quay with more gear and about 200 more gold than the japanese route.  (And, of course, 16 minutes behind)

Also, I did some testing on the metal slime room.  151 encounters in the dry land immediately to your left when entering and 151 encounters knee deep in the sludge when you first walk in.  The encounter rates were 48% and 46.4% respectively.  So, no real difference.  The only anomaly I noted was that for the first 50 encounters, the rate was dancing in the 55-60% range, before settling into the mid-high 40s for the rest of the 302 encounters.  So, it might be that your intial encounter rate is slightly higher upon beginning the grind, or--more likely--I'm staring too hard at too small a sample.

Up next: ruined abbey work.

Dreamboum

2014-02-16 10:28:25 pm

I saw some runners doing some grinding around the area of the hunting grounds near Argonia. It usually gives him 4 metal slimes (sometimes 8 !), do you think you can have a use of it ? You'll still have to beat Trap Box and Don Mole along the way though (and maybe suffer from some random encounters even with holy waters).

BayouBillyBones

2014-02-17 10:18:41 pm

Life's short. Get a dog.

So, this happened today:

I finally got it consistent. I kept focusing on entering the menu as fast as possible, but how fast you leave the menu is just as important. If you linger in or out of the menu for too long the game has time to think and realize where you are. So you need to both enter AND exit the menu with really tight timing as you cross the trigger. The good news is you can mash. So, mash circle until the menu starts to come up, then mash triangle until it starts to go dark, etc. All the while holding up on the stick. After five cycles you should be past the trigger (supposing you started right next to it.) So 10 mashable inputs each of which seems to have a 2 or 3 frame window. Only other note: the circle input is surprisingly early, so you need to be mashing on circle immediately as the screen starts to darken.

I line up with the corner of the dark square in front of the tortured priest, tap in the direction of the exit once, and then begin cycling. Here is a picture of Yangus with his toes up against where the trigger is:

More slime encounter data:
The area west of the royal hunting grounds has the best encounter rate of metal slimes by far. It averages 2.2 metal slimes per encounter. The japanese route probably doesn't take advantage as much because putting off leveling until then would mean less consistent trap box, etc. fights and you wouldn't be able to abuse holy protection as much.

As to LMS, they do not appear in the courtyard, you have to actually be in trodain castle. But, it doesn't seem to matter where in trodain castle you are. One person on gameFAQs was insisting that the throne room has the best rate, but the numbers don't bear that out. Just as with the ruined abbey testing, the more encounters I logged, the more the average started to fall. For the first 30 encounters, LMS averaged a 20% rate. Expanded to the first 100, that dropped to 10%. For the last 100, only 5%. Overall average was 7.5%. They only ever show up alone, which is nice. But, factor in their higher hp and tendency to flee and they are probably only good for segmented runs.

Side note, I've been wondering why the japanese route whistles outside of the abbey until they reach level 10 rather than knock out a metal slime inside the abbey to hit the level. Understandably, it would require the slime to hang around since you only have 3 characters to holy water it. But, it still seems that it would be faster and more rewarding than finding two encounters outside, especially considering you probably already get a slime encounter just walking through the abbey toward tortured soul. Only reasons I can think of:money or it effects the encounter rate when they grind there later.

So, this happened today:[hidden][img]http://i.imgur.com/b3sz8Dm.jpg[/img][/hidden]
I finally got it consistent.  I kept focusing on entering the menu as fast as possible, but how fast you leave the menu is just as important.   If you linger in or out of the menu for too long the game has time to think and realize where you are.  So you need to both enter AND exit the menu with really tight timing as you cross the trigger. The good news is you can mash.  So, mash circle until the menu starts to come up, then mash triangle until it starts to go dark, etc.  All the while holding up on the stick.  After five cycles you should be past the trigger (supposing you started right next to it.)  So 10 mashable inputs each of which seems to have a 2 or 3 frame window.  Only other note: the circle input is surprisingly early, so you need to be mashing on circle immediately as the screen starts to darken.

I line up with the corner of the dark square in front of the tortured priest, tap in the direction of the exit once, and then begin cycling.  Here is a picture of Yangus with his toes up against where the trigger is:
[hidden][img]http://i.imgur.com/rmKiyBF.png[/img][/hidden]
More slime encounter data:
The area west of the royal hunting grounds has the best encounter rate of metal slimes by far.  It averages 2.2 metal slimes per encounter.  The japanese route probably doesn't take advantage as much because putting off leveling until then would mean less consistent trap box, etc. fights and you wouldn't be able to abuse holy protection as much.

As to LMS, they do not appear in the courtyard, you have to actually be in trodain castle.  But, it doesn't seem to matter where in trodain castle you are.  One person on gameFAQs was insisting that the throne room has the best rate, but the numbers don't bear that out.  Just as with the ruined abbey testing, the more encounters I logged, the more the average started to fall.  For the first 30 encounters, LMS averaged a 20% rate.  Expanded to the first 100, that dropped to 10%.  For the last 100, only 5%.  Overall average was 7.5%.  They only ever show up alone, which is nice.  But, factor in their higher hp and tendency to flee and they are probably only good for segmented runs.

Side note, I've been wondering why the japanese route whistles outside of the abbey until they reach level 10 rather than knock out a metal slime inside the abbey to hit the level.  Understandably, it would require the slime to hang around since you only have 3 characters to holy water it.  But, it still seems that it would be faster and more rewarding than finding two encounters outside, especially considering you probably already get a slime encounter just walking through the abbey toward tortured soul.  Only reasons I can think of:money or it effects the encounter rate when they grind there later.

Dreamboum

2014-02-18 05:33:48 am

I'm currently testing out the tortured soul skip, I can't nail it down yet but I'll get it eventually.

Also, a friend linked me this TAS WIP of DQ8, you really need to check it out, it's INSANE : http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22652054
Unfortunately, I don't think you can use this for anything, but it is definitely worth a watch.

BayouBillyBones

Edit history:

BayouBillyBones: 2014-02-18 12:04:01 pm

BayouBillyBones: 2014-02-18 11:56:26 am

2014-02-18 11:07:05 am

Life's short. Get a dog.

IT IS POSSIBLE IN THE US VERSION! Much harder than the ruined abbey skip though. I spent an hour and twenty minutes trying to get it to work.

(EDIT: forgot to add tips on getting it to work. The trigger seems to be smallest on the far left of the bridge as you face it, so hug that side. The trigger is just after the fourth board. Also, the more you menu cycle, the more the game seems to speed up the loading time for the menu.)

Honestly, I would not be surprised if this is frame perfect for each of the transitions. Downside, though, the priest hasn't spawned yet, so I can't save anything once I do get to farebury, and there is no way to get OUT of farebury save a chimera wing in the inn. Which means you need to get zoom before you die a second time, otherwise once you respawn at the inn the game will be soft locked.

Haven't been able to find a trigger yet to pick up yangus again. His ghost appears and tells you you can't leave farebury, but they are no longer at the grassy knoll when you return.

I will play around with it later and see if I can find anything. If I can't find a way for NPCs to respawn or to save the game it's looking pretty TAS only as you would never be able to buy anything, alchemize anything, or have more than one person in your party. You would have to level up enough to get ZOOM so you don't soft lock, then level up enough for metal slash so you could farm MS in argonia (since you can't buy holy waters) so you don't get wiped out everytime enemies stop you. Then, you could move on to the dragon's graveyard if it's open and get some real levels (supposing you find a spear somewhere.) Will have to see if bosses have spawned, but they probably have considering the notorious monsters are around.

In non-TAS news, according to the LLC there is one guaranteed 100 tension. As we already know, after you tension up to 50 a ceratin number of times it unlocks the 100 tension. The sign for this is that at 50 tension the game no longer says "has reached high tension." According to them, the first time that the message stops appearing, if you tension up again you are guaranteed to hit 100. I'm not sure if this helps us at all, since I don''t know that we ever unlock 100 tension. But it's something to start looking for.

IT IS POSSIBLE IN THE US VERSION!  Much harder than the ruined abbey skip though.  I spent an hour and twenty minutes trying to get it to work.

(EDIT: forgot to add tips on getting it to work.  The trigger seems to be smallest on the far left of the bridge as you face it, so hug that side.  The trigger is just after the fourth board.  Also, the more you menu cycle, the more the game seems to speed up the loading time for the menu.)

Honestly, I would not be surprised if this is frame perfect for each of the transitions.  Downside, though, the priest hasn't spawned yet, so I can't save anything once I do get to farebury, and there is no way to get OUT of farebury save a chimera wing in the inn.  Which means you need to get zoom before you die a second time, otherwise once you respawn at the inn the game will be soft locked.

Haven't been able to find a trigger yet to pick up yangus again.  His ghost appears and tells you you can't leave farebury, but they are no longer at the grassy knoll when you return.

I will play around with it later and see if I can find anything.  If I can't find a way for NPCs to respawn or to save the game it's looking pretty TAS only as you would never be able to buy anything, alchemize anything, or have more than one person in your party.  You would have to level up enough to get ZOOM so you don't soft lock, then level up enough for metal slash so you could farm MS in argonia (since you can't buy holy waters) so you don't get wiped out everytime enemies stop you.  Then, you could move on to the dragon's graveyard if it's open and get some real levels (supposing you find a spear somewhere.)  Will have to see if bosses have spawned, but they probably have considering the notorious monsters are around.

In non-TAS news, according to the LLC there is one guaranteed 100 tension.  As we already know, after you tension up to 50 a ceratin number of times it unlocks the 100 tension.  The sign for this is that at 50 tension the game no longer says "has reached high tension."  According to them, the first time that the message stops appearing, if you tension up again you are guaranteed to hit 100.  I'm not sure if this helps us at all, since I don''t know that we ever unlock 100 tension.  But it's something to start looking for.

Dreamboum

2014-02-20 12:04:31 am

Incredible, I really hope you'll find something interesting with this.

For the guaranteed 100 tension, it might work, if I'm able to trigger with a boss in the game (it would be particularly interesting for Raphtorne, even though you're exposing yourself to a dispel for another turn), I'll have to pay attention.