Dragon Ball Advanced Adventure (GBA)

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-08-01 12:50:47 pm

2006-08-01 12:47:43 pm

Never give up!

That's Dragon Ball, without the 'Z'. Or you can refer to the game as 'Dragon Ball: The Abridged Version' like I do.

Okay, since my two Legacy of Goku run attempts didn't go so well (I've given up on those two games because they don't make very good speedruns in my opinion), I decided to pick up this game (which got released in the US maybe two months ago) and I'm in the process of trying to find some speedrun tricks for it. My plan is ultimately to run this game single-segment in hard mode, with no non-mandated deaths (I have a phrase for that kind of run, but I decided not to use it here).

I am aware there is a TAS of the Japanese version, but my tactics have to be very different because of the frame-precise timing they get on their button presses. For instance, in one-on-one fights, if I try to do those normal hits during a pursuit attack like they do, I'll wind up doing a slam, which is slower. I probably will just have to use the ki specials (which deal some good damage, even the weaker ones) during a pursuit attack. Also, the dive kick CAN be cancelled by the upward kick in real-time, but doing it consistently like the TASer does is very difficult if not impossible.

I'll discuss some of my actual strategies once I know there's someone else out there with knowledge of the game who's willing to discuss it.

Thread title:

That's Dragon Ball, without the 'Z'.  Or you can refer to the game as 'Dragon Ball: The Abridged Version' like I do.

Okay, since my two Legacy of Goku run attempts didn't go so well (I've given up on those two games because they don't make very good speedruns in my opinion), I decided to pick up this game (which got released in the US maybe two months ago) and I'm in the process of trying to find some speedrun tricks for it.  My plan is ultimately to run this game single-segment in hard mode, with no non-mandated deaths (I have a phrase for that kind of run, but I decided not to use it here).

I am aware there is a TAS of the Japanese version, but my tactics have to be very different because of the frame-precise timing they get on their button presses.  For instance, in one-on-one fights, if I try to do those normal hits during a pursuit attack like they do, I'll wind up doing a slam, which is slower.  I probably will just have to use the ki specials (which deal some good damage, even the weaker ones) during a pursuit attack.  Also, the dive kick CAN be cancelled by the upward kick in real-time, but doing it consistently like the TASer does is very difficult if not impossible.

I'll discuss some of my actual strategies once I know there's someone else out there with knowledge of the game who's willing to discuss it.

deutsch_joe

2006-08-01 05:38:11 pm

............... .......

This got released in the US? I never knew that, or I would have bought it!

That being said...I can't give you any advice, but this is a speed run that I would like to see!

AquaTiger

2006-08-01 05:52:30 pm

Never give up!

Like I said, it got to the US about two months ago. So I can see why you didn't know.

Anyway, I decided I'll get some strategy started now. I plan on using the Power Pole special (just hit L with one unit of power) much more than the TAS does, but only if there's three or four (or more, but that's unlikely to ever happen) enemies I can nail at once with it. Also, in certain situations when I use the Afterimage special (hold R THEN hit L) repeatedly, I plan on charging up the first one, because if you charge up before using that, you'll throw in an extra Ki attack with it. I won't charge subsequent Afterimage attacks because it's slower to charge every one of them.

When dealing with enemies that can only be struck in the head, I plan on using a fully-charged Ki attack, then finishing with aerial attacks.

In one-on-one, I plan on charging during the launch combo, then unleasing a diagonal-up Ki attack to finish the combo. If they recover instead of falling to the ground, so much the better, because I can start pummelling them immediately then.

As far as powerups.... I definitely plan on getting all 3 Ki upgrades, for various reasons. I also have realized that the 3 health upgrades (I don't count the mandatory one near the end of the game) are all not too far off the path, so if I REALLY need them I can afford to get all of them without too great of a time loss (it may even result in a time gain because the extra health may mean I can afford to use more reckless strategies on bosses). I intend to get the one in the Underwater Cave for sure, though, because that one has the lowest time loss (it's right on the path I need to take). I'm also considering getting one Power Pole upgrade, just to extend my combo attacks a little longer (the first upgrade adds a 6th hit).

The only two times I need to die in the game are the first fight with Mercenary Tao and the first fight with King Piccolo. The Tao one is mandated, but the Piccolo fight has you at such low health that winning is nearly impossible anyway. Plus, both deaths advance the plot.

There has to be something I'm missing on strategies here.

Like I said, it got to the US about two months ago.  So I can see why you didn't know.

Anyway, I decided I'll get some strategy started now.  I plan on using the Power Pole special (just hit L with one unit of power) much more than the TAS does, but only if there's three or four (or more, but that's unlikely to ever happen) enemies I can nail at once with it.  Also, in certain situations when I use the Afterimage special (hold R THEN hit L) repeatedly, I plan on charging up the first one, because if you charge up before using that, you'll throw in an extra Ki attack with it.  I won't charge subsequent Afterimage attacks because it's slower to charge every one of them.

When dealing with enemies that can only be struck in the head, I plan on using a fully-charged Ki attack, then finishing with aerial attacks.

In one-on-one, I plan on charging during the launch combo, then unleasing a diagonal-up Ki attack to finish the combo.  If they recover instead of falling to the ground, so much the better, because I can start pummelling them immediately then.

As far as powerups.... I definitely plan on getting all 3 Ki upgrades, for various reasons.  I also have realized that the 3 health upgrades (I don't count the mandatory one near the end of the game) are all not too far off the path, so if I REALLY need them I can afford to get all of them without too great of a time loss (it may even result in a time gain because the extra health may mean I can afford to use more reckless strategies on bosses).  I intend to get the one in the Underwater Cave for sure, though, because that one has the lowest time loss (it's right on the path I need to take).  I'm also considering getting one Power Pole upgrade, just to extend my combo attacks a little longer (the first upgrade adds a 6th hit).

The only two times I need to die in the game are the first fight with Mercenary Tao and the first fight with King Piccolo.  The Tao one is mandated, but the Piccolo fight has you at such low health that winning is nearly impossible anyway.  Plus, both deaths advance the plot.

There has to be something I'm missing on strategies here.

DK64_MASTER

2006-08-01 06:08:16 pm

Quote:

The Tao one is mandated, but the Piccolo fight has you at such low health that winning is nearly impossible anyway. Plus, both deaths advance the plot.

Random question, I forgot what happened in the TAS, but what happens if you beat King Piccolo?

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-08-01 06:19:18 pm

2006-08-01 06:09:30 pm

Never give up!

I actually don't know - I've never beaten him in the first fight.

The TAS chooses to lose to him as well because it's faster. And the forums at TASVideos don't show signs of testing this. So I really can't answer that.

AquaTiger

2006-09-02 04:32:29 am

Never give up!

Having another look at this game, I have concluded that with my play style, it will be impossible for me to do a single-segment run on hard mode. I'm too aggressive and pay too little attention to dodging attacks to even beat the FIRST BOSS on hard mode.

Therefore, instead of segmenting the run, when I get around to this I will probably do a run on normal mode, to give myself a decent but not insurmountable challenge. As long as my mistakes are fairly rare, I should be fine, right?

getter77

2006-09-02 02:03:15 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Sure. A normal run sounds good just like in most games. Then down the line somebody may pick up enough cues and do a hard mode run. All will be well in the land of SDA Smiley

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-09-03 04:05:48 am

2006-09-02 04:31:11 pm

Never give up!

Well, I do have one thing to say upon testing.

Normal difficulty is quite feasible indeed. Also, I don't know what time a console speedrunner should get on this game, considering the TAS wasn't truly 'as fast as possible' as far as I can judge from the author's comments, but I'm going to start by shooting for below 52 minutes.

I made it to draining 2/3 of the (total) life meter of the boss of the Underwater Cave at a little over 34 minutes. Unfortunately, I died at that spot. I don't have the TAS on me, so I can't immediately compare, but I'd like to know how far off I was there so I can gauge a good time for ME to shoot for (which, frankly, will be less than what a direct ratio between our times would indicate, and not just because of the fact his run is on Hard difficulty and mine is on Normal).

Things I do different than the TASer (the only run I can really compare to):
-Much fewer dive-kicks - and certainly no use of the Dive Kick Infinite of Doom, a move that no console runner could pull off consistently
-I get all the health upgrades as well as one power pole upgrade in addition to the ki upgrades - the upgrades aren't that far off the path and I will NEED the extra health the way I play (and since I can't do dive kicks constantly, I could use the extra combo hit from the first power pole upgrade)
-I tend to use the Ki Beam on lesser enemies a lot after I get the second ki upgrade - to me, lining them up and unleashing a Ki Beam feels faster than simply doing combo attacks all day at that point
-A lot of times when I do the rushing special attack, I will charge up before doing it, to throw in the extra ki blast (and a few extra hits as a result) at the end

Levels where I have problems:
-The second level (the fight with Oolong; oftentimes my rushing special misses Oolong and hits one of the other enemies. Since the rushing special drains half his health, I plan to restart if I hit someone else with it, since I don't have time to build a second one)
-The first Kame House level (I have this huge tendency to miss my jumps in this level. Thankfully Krillin's an easy boss)
-Muscle Tower (specifically the second boss. I get hit WAY too much here - I'm considering saving the urn that's supposed to be BEFORE the boss for AFTER it)
-Underwater Cave (even with two life upgrades - the second of which is early in this level - I have problems keeping enough health for the boss)
-Red Ribbon Army Base (last portion of level - if I'm not careful I fall into pits a little too often)

I'll list later ones as I come across problems in them.

Current Best Time: Just below 40 minutes right before the boss in Red Ribbon Army Base. Fell into a pit on this one.

Edit: Also, I have a suspicion the two routes in Pilaf's castle are the same length, OR that the upper route is faster despite the waiting necessary on that path (I find the waiting to be minimal, plus fewer enemies are in places where they can force a time loss with their attacks). The only time I've tried the lower path, it wound up 30 seconds longer, but I had HORRIBLE luck there so it might be off. Maybe someone can confirm this for me?

Well, I do have one thing to say upon testing.

Normal difficulty is quite feasible indeed.  Also, I don't know what time a console speedrunner should get on this game, considering the TAS wasn't truly 'as fast as possible' as far as I can judge from the author's comments, but I'm going to start by shooting for below 52 minutes.

I made it to draining 2/3 of the (total) life meter of the boss of the Underwater Cave at a little over 34 minutes.  Unfortunately, I died at that spot.  I don't have the TAS on me, so I can't immediately compare, but I'd like to know how far off I was there so I can gauge a good time for ME to shoot for (which, frankly, will be less than what a direct ratio between our times would indicate, and not just because of the fact his run is on Hard difficulty and mine is on Normal).

Things I do different than the TASer (the only run I can really compare to):
-Much fewer dive-kicks - and certainly no use of the Dive Kick Infinite of Doom, a move that no console runner could pull off consistently
-I get all the health upgrades as well as one power pole upgrade in addition to the ki upgrades - the upgrades aren't that far off the path and I will NEED the extra health the way I play (and since I can't do dive kicks constantly, I could use the extra combo hit from the first power pole upgrade)
-I tend to use the Ki Beam on lesser enemies a lot after I get the second ki upgrade - to me, lining them up and unleashing a Ki Beam feels faster than simply doing combo attacks all day at that point
-A lot of times when I do the rushing special attack, I will charge up before doing it, to throw in the extra ki blast (and a few extra hits as a result) at the end

Levels where I have problems:
-The second level (the fight with Oolong; oftentimes my rushing special misses Oolong and hits one of the other enemies.  Since the rushing special drains half his health, I plan to restart if I hit someone else with it, since I don't have time to build a second one)
-The first Kame House level (I have this huge tendency to miss my jumps in this level.  Thankfully Krillin's an easy boss)
-Muscle Tower (specifically the second boss.  I get hit WAY too much here - I'm considering saving the urn that's supposed to be BEFORE the boss for AFTER it)
-Underwater Cave (even with two life upgrades - the second of which is early in this level - I have problems keeping enough health for the boss)
-Red Ribbon Army Base (last portion of level - if I'm not careful I fall into pits a little too often)

I'll list later ones as I come across problems in them.

Current Best Time: Just below 40 minutes right before the boss in Red Ribbon Army Base.  Fell into a pit on this one.

Edit: Also, I have a suspicion the two routes in Pilaf's castle are the same length, OR that the upper route is faster despite the waiting necessary on that path (I find the waiting to be minimal, plus fewer enemies are in places where they can force a time loss with their attacks).  The only time I've tried the lower path, it wound up 30 seconds longer, but I had HORRIBLE luck there so it might be off.  Maybe someone can confirm this for me?

AnotherGamer

2006-09-07 12:59:26 am

Nice that at least someone bothered to watch the run.

-The Taopaipai and Piccolo Daimaou initial fights both end the same way if you manage to win them: the game goes into a cutscene and you'll eat a facefull of ki regardless.

-I never really bothered to figure out how the VS system actually works either: all I know that you can get additional midair hits before the groundslam by pressing different directions while hitting B, but there doesn't seem to be any real logic to whatever combination of directions allows you to get the max 4 midair hits or so out of it.

-The run's not as fast as it could be, but it's not improveable by more than a minute or 2 at most: the most time losses come from pointless enemy juggling and in some cases poor planning on enemy spawn triggers. See the first(?) section of Pilaf's castle where I finish a bear trooper with a 4 hit combo with an upward kick at the end for a good example.

-The reason why I didn't use the stationary special and the ki blast followup to the ranbu more than that are simple: they cause lots of uncancelable lag at the end. Plus charging a ki blast slows down your movement a great deal.

If you got any other questions, ask away.

Nice that at least someone bothered to watch the run.

-The Taopaipai and Piccolo Daimaou initial fights both end the same way if you manage to win them: the game goes into a cutscene and you'll eat a facefull of ki regardless.

-I never really bothered to figure out how the VS system actually works either: all I know that you can get additional midair hits before the groundslam by pressing different directions while hitting B, but there doesn't seem to be any real logic to whatever combination of directions allows you to get the max 4 midair hits or so out of it.

-The run's not as fast as it could be, but it's not improveable by more than a minute or 2 at most: the most time losses come from pointless enemy juggling and in some cases poor planning on enemy spawn triggers. See the first(?) section of Pilaf's castle where I finish a bear trooper with a 4 hit combo with an upward kick at the end for a good example.

-The reason why I didn't use the stationary special and the ki blast followup to the ranbu more than that are simple: they cause lots of uncancelable lag at the end. Plus charging a ki blast slows down your movement a great deal.

If you got any other questions, ask away.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-09-07 02:03:48 am

2006-09-07 02:03:04 am

Never give up!

The only major question I have right now is about an area where I'm not 100% decided on the route - Pilaf's Castle. AnotherGamer, I notice that you say you chose the lower route there because the upper path requires waiting. However, every time I have tried to use that lower path, enemies frequently throwing attacks at the wrong time (bear troopers and their grenades are the worst) have always caused me to lose more time than I would have lost by waiting for the boulders on the upper path (for me, the time spent actually waiting has been fairly low, at least by console runner standards - it's probably in the low hundreds in terms of frames lost).

Is it just rotten luck, or is there some secret to going through that area relatively unscathed while still getting a decent time?

(By the way, at present, my average time after beating Shu and Pilaf - or more accurately, the two robots they control in that very stage - is about 10 minutes and 30 seconds, assuming you are starting timing right as you select the 'Story' option to begin the game. My best time after that area has been slightly under 10 minutes, by the same timing rules. When I manage to get around to recording, I'm probably not taking anything worse than 10 minutes and 10 seconds to that point - I can't exactly be perfect, but there's a minimum threshold I feel I must meet.)

One last thing - I seem to have noticed a fairly good attack sequence for a console player to use in any of the non-VS-style boss fights. Pull off a standing 5-hit combo (by mashing B repeatedly), use the rushing special (or whatever it's called) uncharged, then hit a full standing combo (which may be more than 5 hits depending on whether any Power Pole upgrades were grabbed - reason I said 5 earlier is because if you had further hits, it'd drive enemies back). Theoretically someone could use all possible rushing special attacks in a row in the middle, but I tend to save one for near the end of such fights. Why? Maybe I need a few hits to prevent an opponent from going into a time-wasting pattern.

The only major question I have right now is about an area where I'm not 100% decided on the route - Pilaf's Castle.  AnotherGamer, I notice that you say you chose the lower route there because the upper path requires waiting.  However, every time I have tried to use that lower path, enemies frequently throwing attacks at the wrong time (bear troopers and their grenades are the worst) have always caused me to lose more time than I would have lost by waiting for the boulders on the upper path (for me, the time spent actually waiting has been fairly low, at least by console runner standards - it's probably in the low hundreds in terms of frames lost).

Is it just rotten luck, or is there some secret to going through that area relatively unscathed while still getting a decent time?

(By the way, at present, my average time after beating Shu and Pilaf - or more accurately, the two robots they control in that very stage - is about 10 minutes and 30 seconds, assuming you are starting timing right as you select the 'Story' option to begin the game.  My best time after that area has been slightly under 10 minutes, by the same timing rules.  When I manage to get around to recording, I'm probably not taking anything worse than 10 minutes and 10 seconds to that point - I can't exactly be perfect, but there's a minimum threshold I feel I must meet.)

One last thing - I seem to have noticed a fairly good attack sequence for a console player to use in any of the non-VS-style boss fights.  Pull off a standing 5-hit combo (by mashing B repeatedly), use the rushing special (or whatever it's called) uncharged, then hit a full standing combo (which may be more than 5 hits depending on whether any Power Pole upgrades were grabbed - reason I said 5 earlier is because if you had further hits, it'd drive enemies back).  Theoretically someone could use all possible rushing special attacks in a row in the middle, but I tend to save one for near the end of such fights.  Why?  Maybe I need a few hits to prevent an opponent from going into a time-wasting pattern.

AnotherGamer

2006-09-07 02:46:47 am

Quote:

Is it just rotten luck, or is there some secret to going through that area relatively unscathed while still getting a decent time?

Hard to say. As you know, TASing and speedrunning a game can be extremely different depeding on the methoids available. I can't really say what exactly causes you to get hit a lot there, but if you think that the boulder route is ultimately faster, go for it.

The simpler ground combo variation seems like an useful finding, it's probably what you'd want to use instead of repeated divekicks.