Dragon Age: Inquistion

2015-01-01 09:24:48 am

When you force close the game with the red cross (windowed mode) it actually autosaves as far as I've seen; which, is what made me think of it. But, it will probably not work.

letterswords

2015-01-01 01:31:32 pm

twitch.tv/letterswords

So i kinda spent some time figuring exactly what we would need to do to get tier 3 metal if we were to go the tier 2 weapons (from schematics perks) route:
Tier 3 metals in crestwood appear to only be found in the flooded caves in old crestwood, which would require going to the dam. seems like a bad choice when we could theoretically just run quickly into emprise du lion for tier 3 metal and leave since once we hit level 6 influence power wouldn't really matter and load times would be cut out. Alternatively, as someone suggested on my stream, we could get the connections perks the rare stocks/exacting buyers/only the finest, which give us a mix of tier 1/2/3 metals and cloths and leathers (unfortunately the tier 1 perk doesn't appear to give plaideweave, which would've also been useful). Combined between the schematics perks plus the resource perks we'd need to get to level 11 influence off farris, which equates to buying/reselling about 267 of the cheapest items he sells that give power+influence. If we decide to get tier 3 resources elsewhere, we'd still need 2 extra perks for the schematics, which equates to 11000 influence/150= 74 influence+power items (which is less than we would already need to buy to get enough power for the rest of the game).

zero shift

2015-01-01 06:25:19 pm

So OOB is useless in this?

As you said certain requirements need to be met. I got into Haven but nothing triggered.

When I tried to enter the are of the first boss from the 'charge with the soldiers' option, the game totally messed up and locked. This was because the OOB point was from the mountain path and I came around the other way. So funny.

DashingSplash

2015-01-01 09:44:57 pm

Quote from zero shift:

So OOB is useless in this?

As you said certain requirements need to be met. I got into Haven but nothing triggered.

When I tried to enter the are of the first boss from the 'charge with the soldiers' option, the game totally messed up and locked. This was because the OOB point was from the mountain path and I came around the other way. So funny.

Not at all! It is just that we have only found one spot in where it is useful so far: http://www.twitch.tv/dashingsplash/c/5718526
That skip saves about 1 minute and 30 seconds, and keeps our characters safe, as we don't want the Inquisitor, nor Sera to die as we would have to reload.

Now, if you have found a OoB for the prologue then that would certainly be useful (hopefully). Especially, if we could skip plenty by going to Haven directly instead of having to kill the Pride Demon etc. But, that seems unlikely to work in this game. Would be nice to try though. (:

Perhaps, you could explain a bit more in detail of what you have done, or show a video! Would certainly be interesting to see what has happened! <öAö>

[quote="zero shift"]So OOB is useless in this?

As you said certain requirements need to be met. I got into Haven but nothing triggered.

When I tried to enter the are of the first boss from the 'charge with the soldiers' option, the game totally messed up and locked. This was because the OOB point was from the mountain path and I came around the other way. So funny.

[/quote]

Not at all! It is just that we have only found one spot in where it is useful so far: http://www.twitch.tv/dashingsplash/c/5718526
That skip saves about 1 minute and 30 seconds, and keeps our characters safe, as we don't want the Inquisitor, nor Sera to die as we would have to reload.

Now, if you have found a OoB for the prologue then that would certainly be useful (hopefully). Especially, if we could skip plenty by going to Haven directly instead of having to kill the Pride Demon etc. But, that seems unlikely to work in this game. Would be nice to try though. (:

Perhaps, you could explain a bit more in detail of what you have done, or show a video! Would certainly be interesting to see what has happened! <öAö>

zero shift

2015-01-01 11:58:27 pm

I watched your video. What's the rule here? As long as you can walk into a cut-scene an OOB can work? Or was that quest already activated so the game had it ready or something?
I'm not up to that area yet. I'm still at the beginning somewhere.

As for the prologue, I got back to Haven which had invisible walls blocking entry but was able to get in by switching characters because they all appeared inside the village. I was exploring and came down from the mountains behind that large building where plan missions.

There are also invisible walls in the village. I think they're actually where the crowd is normally standing. Using character switch to deal with these. There are only a few people standing around. The large building at the back can be entered too though can't access the war table room.

As I remember you wake up here in a cut-scene already and the only 'walk in' cut-scene is the war room which can't be entered.

There's a path outside the village that opens the world map but nowhere to travel to yet. When I was OOB I got behind it and there's a path but it just ends then more mountains and the end of the area where you can fall off.

Other than that, once you OOB you can go almost anywhere but I wasn't able to get around to the boss area. OOB also seems to cancel any part where you'd normally get reloaded back to safe ground too.

The staircase was the only other thing of interest. That creeped me out a bit haha.

The OOB is in some rocks near the boss. I'll need to replay it I think because I don't clearly remember what the exact point looks like. It's some black rocks very close to the boss room and you can just jump up a steep part and get out. It's the path that leads to the boss and on the right side. Hard to say the exact position, but try jumping around the rocks there. That path just past the rift breach from mountain path choice.

I know this side you can get over some rocks and is surrounded by those reload triggers but this point I'm talking about doesn't have.

I'm playing in a friend's Xbox One and I don't get the recording feature. I usually record on PS3 using a DVD recorder. I might get the PS3 version if I end up liking the game enough and that would be easier to record stuff.

One last thing I forgot to add. Since the OOB is so far from Haven, you have to take an extremely long path of struggling up slopes and mountains. I actually thing you could easily beat the boss normally and get there before the OOB would.

Still might be worth researching.

I watched your video. What's the rule here? As long as you can walk into a cut-scene an OOB can work? Or was that quest already activated so the game had it ready or something?
I'm not up to that area yet. I'm still at the beginning somewhere.

As for the prologue, I got back to Haven which had invisible walls blocking entry but was able to get in by switching characters because they all appeared inside the village. I was exploring and came down from the mountains behind that large building where plan missions.

There are also invisible walls in the village. I think they're actually where the crowd is normally standing. Using character switch to deal with these. There are only a few people standing around. The large building at the back can be entered too though can't access the war table room.

As I remember you wake up here in a cut-scene already and the only 'walk in' cut-scene is the war room which can't be entered.

There's a path outside the village that opens the world map but nowhere to travel to yet. When I was OOB I got behind it and there's a path but it just ends then more mountains and the end of the area where you can fall off.

Other than that, once you OOB you can go almost anywhere but I wasn't able to get around to the boss area. OOB also seems to cancel any part where you'd normally get reloaded back to safe ground too.

The staircase was the only other thing of interest. That creeped me out a bit haha.

The OOB is in some rocks near the boss. I'll need to replay it I think because I don't clearly remember what the exact point looks like. It's some black rocks very close to the boss room and you can just jump up a steep part and get out. It's the path that leads to the boss and on the right side. Hard to say the exact position, but try jumping around the rocks there. That path just past the rift breach from mountain path choice.

I know this side you can get over some rocks and is surrounded by those reload triggers but this point I'm talking about doesn't have.

I'm playing in a friend's Xbox One and I don't get the recording feature. I usually record on PS3 using a DVD recorder. I might get the PS3 version if I end up liking the game enough and that would be easier to record stuff.

One last thing I forgot to add. Since the OOB is so far from Haven, you have to take an extremely long path of struggling up slopes and mountains. I actually thing you could easily beat the boss normally and get there before the OOB would.

Still might be worth researching.

letterswords

2015-01-02 11:28:30 am

twitch.tv/letterswords

Judging by my knowledge of how other bioware games are coded (story-wise), it is unlikely to lead to anything. It seems pretty clear so far in DA:I that you can only skip intermediate steps in quests rather than skip onto another quest, which is pretty common in other bioware speedruns (there is a hard-coded linear progression of missions that makes sequence breaking not possible)--a good example of this is in mass effect 1, where other planets don't appear on the galaxy map until you complete a few different story triggers, making it impossible to skip certain parts.

One thing I was randomly thinking about that is sort of related to the haven OOB you find a while back DashingSplash was if there is a way to slingshot around parts of the Hinterlands. It could potentially be faster than traveling by foot/horse some areas if we could find anywhere good to do it.

zero shift

2015-01-02 11:32:51 pm

Got another OOB in Val Royeaux. Doesn't do anything though, just gets behind some walls or under the map.

letterswords

Edit history:

letterswords: 2015-01-05 05:44:42 pm

letterswords: 2015-01-04 02:21:19 pm

2015-01-03 07:33:10 pm

twitch.tv/letterswords

so i once again lost any chance at a PB because I lost 15+ minutes to plaideweave RNG. I'm probably going to finish testing out the alternate route (i was trying to do that in the run) and pass on doing more runs until we either find a guaranteed plaideweave drop or some other way of getting influence that is faster/more consistent.

EDIT: I've been searching around Crestwood to see if I can either find a guaranteed drop of plaideweave or a better spot to farm it. Nothing yet on that front, but I did find a way to clip into the flooded caves before draining the dam by going through the back entrance. I used sera with flask of lightning to get through the door that is otherwise barred from the outside. I don't have a really good way of explaining where exactly this cave is without a map, so check http://game-maps.com/DAI/Crestwood.asp and look at the cave on the far north part of the map that is next to the fade rift. Probably not useful but it would give us access to tier 3 metals and also you can backtrack through the caves to the rift. If you close the rift, you can trigger a weird state where old crestwood is still flooded but it is daytime, and it will unlock the vendor in crestwood village.

Also, possible slightly better plaideweave farming location (still really bad though): the cave directly south of crestwood village. In the back, there are two sacks, which have a chance to contain resources including plaideweave. Not a great chance, but still may be faster than fighting enemies over and over again. You can't quicksave directly in front, but back a little bit kind of where the cave forks off works.

so i once again lost any chance at a PB because I lost 15+ minutes to plaideweave RNG. I'm probably going to finish testing out the alternate route (i was trying to do that in the run) and pass on doing more runs until we either find a guaranteed plaideweave drop or some other way of getting influence that is faster/more consistent.

EDIT: I've been searching around Crestwood to see if I can either find a guaranteed drop of plaideweave or a better spot to farm it. Nothing yet on that front, but I did find a way to clip into the flooded caves before draining the dam by going through the back entrance. I used sera with flask of lightning to get through the door that is otherwise barred from the outside. I don't have a really good way of explaining where exactly this cave is without a map, so check http://game-maps.com/DAI/Crestwood.asp and look at the cave on the far north part of the map that is next to the fade rift. Probably not useful but it would give us access to tier 3 metals and also you can backtrack through the caves to the rift. If you close the rift, you can trigger a weird state where old crestwood is still flooded but it is daytime, and it will unlock the vendor in crestwood village.

Also, possible slightly better plaideweave farming location (still really bad though): the cave directly south of crestwood village. In the back, there are two sacks, which have a chance to contain resources including plaideweave. Not a great chance, but still may be faster than fighting enemies over and over again. You can't quicksave directly in front, but back a little bit kind of where the cave forks off works.

DashingSplash

2015-01-06 01:11:57 pm

@zero shift Sounds like you've managed to find a lot of OoBs! Would be even better if you could try to get a video of you doing it, but you did mention that you were playing on your friends console. But, as letterswords said, it will most likely not work to skip any major main quests (only some main quests "steps" can be skipped).

Yes, the plaideweave RNG is awful even when set up correctly. Btw, do you know what you can buy from the merchant in Crestwood? Anything that's usable?

I'll take a look at all that stuff later on in this week, as I'm finally done with my report. Still have a test coming up at the end of next week, but should have plenty of time to do some testing/routing/runs. Hopefully, I'll be able to find some skips, but also do some route changes, and take a look at a potential rogue route. In the end, I'll probably look for a consistent way to do slingshots, and see if I can exploit the fadestep in any way if I don't find anything useful for the rogue.

letterswords

Edit history:

letterswords: 2015-01-06 03:19:04 pm

letterswords: 2015-01-06 03:17:31 pm

2015-01-06 03:16:11 pm

twitch.tv/letterswords

we could buy the embrium there instead of doing the war table missions, and we could also dupe there instead of leaving to val royeaux and returning. Not sure if that would be faster unless we are getting some other benefit out of doing stuff in the flooded caves but you never know. But yeah plaideweave is dumb, so unless we find some way around that the run is going to be not fun for me. The only thing I could think of doing would be to just quicksave between every single requisition we do and quickload whenever we get one that requires plaideweave (1/4 chance). So we'd have to quickload around 25% of the 30 requistions= 7.5, plus taking into account that those 7.5 would also give us a plaideweave one again 25% of the time=1.9, plus 1.9 giving us another .475 on average means we need to do around 40 "attempts" (10 quickloads) on average to hit 2000/5000 influence (You can do the same type of math to find out how many extra you'd have to do for the alternate route where we'd go all the way to level 6 influence and skip emprise du lion, which requires 45 requisitions, but I'm too lazy to do the math) . If we are taking out loading times anyways, the time hit actually wouldn't be terrible, and we'd cut out the time searching for plaideweave and the small amount of extra time we'd save from not having to dupe plaideweave.

we could buy the embrium there instead of doing the war table missions, and we could also dupe there instead of leaving to val royeaux and returning. Not sure if that would be faster unless we are getting some other benefit out of doing stuff in the flooded caves but you never know. But yeah plaideweave is dumb, so unless we find some way around that the run is going to be not fun for me. The only thing I could think of doing would be to just quicksave between every single requisition we do and quickload whenever we get one that requires plaideweave (1/4 chance). So we'd have to quickload around 25% of the 30 requistions= 7.5, plus taking into account that those 7.5 would also give us a plaideweave one again 25% of the time=1.9, plus 1.9 giving us another .475 on average means we need to do around 40 "attempts"  (10 quickloads) on average to hit 2000/5000 influence (You can do the same type of math to find out how many extra you'd have to do for the alternate route where we'd go all the way to level 6 influence and skip emprise du lion, which requires 45 requisitions, but I'm too lazy to do the math) . If we are taking out loading times anyways, the time hit actually wouldn't be terrible, and we'd cut out the time searching for plaideweave and the small amount of extra time we'd save from not having to dupe plaideweave.

zero shift

2015-01-06 05:12:40 pm

The one in Val Royeaux happened when I was on one of the higher levels. There are some parts where you can't jump the railing but I noticed the other characters could. One of them was standing on the lower roof so I switched and was able to follow it along and drop into a little area behind a gate and go behind the walls from there.

Another got me inside a bridge, but it's hard to explain. Nothing useful or amazing though.

DashingSplash

2015-01-09 06:10:08 am

So, made a video of how to dupe several items, just as Ogam mentioned he had found: http://www.twitch.tv/dashingsplash/c/5843286

As you can see, the items duped can tripple, and in one case it quadrupled; I believe it has to do with how you time it, and I'm sure a TAS would be able to dupe it all at once.

letterswords

Edit history:

letterswords: 2015-01-09 08:56:31 am

letterswords: 2015-01-09 08:56:23 am

letterswords: 2015-01-09 08:56:21 am

2015-01-09 08:55:42 am

twitch.tv/letterswords

Saw the video, pretty cool. Should cut down on duping time a bit. Also, I think I know why plush fustian velvet wasn't getting duped: ogam said yesterday that the first item in the list wouldn't get duped in the duping multiple types of items method. So I guess we'd have to just dupe the first item in the list separately or use a dummy item that we don't actually want to dupe? (problem there is that the items are organized in list by value, so to guarantee it working we would want an item that is 1 tier higher than the stuff we are trying to dupe).

DashingSplash

2015-01-09 09:07:14 am

Well, you can just highlight different items with each duping and it would dupe the item that wasn't dupe before. Or, you could use a dummy item as you said.

Going to take a look at all the changes that we can do for the run, and then I will try to do a run. I was thinking about something: which materials did you use for your tier 2 weapons? Did you use Plush Fustian or did you skip that? And, did you use the runes?

letterswords

Edit history:

letterswords: 2015-01-09 09:20:12 am

letterswords: 2015-01-09 09:15:30 am

2015-01-09 09:14:49 am

twitch.tv/letterswords

So I got extra power/influence above what you would normally need so I could get the perks that give resources. Not entirely sure if that is the best way, but it gives us tier 3 metals, cloth, and leather. However, you need to basically get 3 extra influence levels beyond the extra ones you would need for the schematics (so you basically want to get to 11 influence off Farris to be able to get schematics+ master focus+ materials). The Perks are The Rare Stocks/Exacting Buyers/Only The Finest (you have to get them in successive order) under the connections tree. I think I calculated it as needing around 270 of the cheapest item Farris sells bought/resold.

I think it might actually be better to get the resources elsewhere instead. Plush Fustian you can get by the old method, leather doesn't really matter (the tier 2 weapons don't really have many leather slots, just the daggers IIRC), and metal you could get either by a quick trip into emprise du lion or by clipping into the flooded caves.

So I got extra power/influence above what you would normally need so I could get the perks that give resources. Not entirely sure if that is the best way, but it gives us tier 3 metals, cloth, and leather. However, you need to basically get 3 extra influence levels beyond the extra ones you would need for the schematics (so you basically want to get to 11 influence off Farris to be able to get schematics+ master focus+ materials). The Perks are The Rare Stocks/Exacting Buyers/Only The Finest (you have to get them in successive order) under the connections tree. I think I calculated it as needing around 270 of the cheapest item Farris sells bought/resold.

I think it might actually be better to get the resources elsewhere instead. Plush Fustian you can get by the old method, leather doesn't really matter (the tier 2 weapons don't really have many leather slots, just the daggers IIRC), and metal you could get either by a quick trip into emprise du lion or by clipping into the flooded caves.

DashingSplash

2015-01-09 09:27:56 am

Hmm, so about 27 buy/rebuys of the cheapest item (x10 stacks).

I'll probably go with Plaideweave, as Plush Fustian requires us to capture Suledin Keep. Leather would be Druffalo Hide as we get it in the Crossroads early, and I'll probably go with the flooded caves clip for the Tier 3 metal. Going to try the flooded cave clip out.

letterswords

Edit history:

letterswords: 2015-01-09 09:48:32 am

2015-01-09 09:47:58 am

twitch.tv/letterswords

You could also just buy multiple different item stacks. There are a few different ones that each cost the same amount. I usually have enough gold to buy somewhere between 20-30 items before needing to resell again.

Hauwlyn

Edit history:

Hauwlyn: 2015-01-11 01:03:51 pm

Hauwlyn: 2015-01-11 01:03:46 pm

Hauwlyn: 2015-01-11 01:03:38 pm

Hauwlyn: 2015-01-11 01:03:36 pm

Hauwlyn: 2015-01-11 01:03:13 pm

2015-01-11 01:02:17 pm

So, I know that Vivienne is invincible and all that, but I was wondering why you'd use her in a speedrun instead of Dorian, if you really need a good mage? She doesn't have much in the way of DPS coming from her spec, especially since her AI is wonky and doesn't spam spirit blade like she should even if you tell her to favor it. On the other hand, with FF off, Walking Bomb is excellent DPS in AoE and quite decent in single target. You'd most likely not take Spirit Mark as it requires you to manually deactivate once fights are over for triggers to activate, given enemies aren't considered dead in spirit form. Not sure if Horror would be worth using either, given it may split enemies up.

Also, I understand you go mage Inquisitor for fade step when Horse isn't an option, have you considered 2h warrior w/ charging bull? It has low cooldown(8s), combos extremely well into Mighty Blow(especially with both upgraded), and can last much longer than Fade step, at the cost of the movement itself being somewhat slower. You'd trade burst movement and ranged attacks for better damage and better movement on longer distances. Worth considering?

Tell me if I'm completely off, trying to help.

So, I know that Vivienne is invincible and all that, but I was wondering why you'd use her in a speedrun instead of Dorian, if you really need a good mage? She doesn't have much in the way of DPS coming from her spec, especially since her AI is wonky and doesn't spam spirit blade like she should even if you tell her to favor it. On the other hand, with FF off, Walking Bomb is excellent DPS in AoE and quite decent in single target. You'd most likely not take Spirit Mark as it requires you to manually deactivate once fights are over for triggers to activate, given enemies aren't considered dead in spirit form. Not sure if Horror would be worth using either, given it may split enemies up.

Also, I understand you go mage Inquisitor for fade step when Horse isn't an option, have you considered 2h warrior w/ charging bull? It has low cooldown(8s), combos extremely well into Mighty Blow(especially with both upgraded), and can last much longer than Fade step, at the cost of the movement itself being somewhat slower. You'd trade burst movement and ranged attacks for better damage and better movement on longer distances. Worth considering?

Tell me if I'm completely off, trying to help.

letterswords

Edit history:

letterswords: 2015-01-11 01:27:08 pm

2015-01-11 01:26:24 pm

twitch.tv/letterswords

DPS honestly doesn't make a huge difference. It didn't get mentioned in the thread, but I went through the game on my stream with the Tier 2 weapons as I previously suggested and I barely noticed a difference except against the dragon on the Corypheus fight (and this is with at least 20% less base DPS; its actually greater because we also have lower crit chance, attack rating, etc. than we did in the tier 3 weapon route).

Vivienne is also really important because Spirit Blade is really important in a few areas due to its increased damage against guard and barriers (which are a trademark of probably the two longest boss fights: the Nightmare demon and the Red Lyrium Dragon). Those are the only real fights where we can't just quickly cheese the fight with just spamming Flask of Fire+Thousands Cuts. Also, at least as far as I personally am concerned, I directly control Vivienne the majority of the time other than when i switch over to Sera to use Flask of Fire+Thousand Cuts, so her AI wonkiness isn't really an issue for me. She also has pretty good survivability on the Winter Palace mission, which IMO is the place we are most likely to die (basically because for most of it we don't have a full focus bar on Sera, so we need to do the most "actual fighting")

That's not to say Dorian would be bad necessarily, I just think Vivienne has quite a few useful attributes that would make her less expendable. I think the real question would be Dorian or Solas. Walking Bomb is definitely nice, but the bonuses from the weakened debuff from rift mage are good too. Not entirely sure.

Hadn't considered 2H warrior, but I think being ranged plus having more AOE type attacks seems better. I'd have to look more into it, though.

DPS honestly doesn't make a huge difference. It didn't get mentioned in the thread, but I went through the game on my stream with the Tier 2 weapons as I previously suggested and I barely noticed a difference except against the dragon on the Corypheus fight (and this is with at least 20% less base DPS; its actually greater because we also have lower crit chance, attack rating, etc. than we did in the tier 3 weapon route).

Vivienne is also really important because Spirit Blade is really important in a few areas due to its increased damage against guard and barriers (which are a trademark of probably the two longest boss fights: the Nightmare demon and the Red Lyrium Dragon). Those are the only real fights where we can't just quickly cheese the fight with just spamming Flask of Fire+Thousands Cuts. Also, at least as far as I personally am concerned, I directly control Vivienne the majority of the time other than when i switch over to Sera to use Flask of Fire+Thousand Cuts, so her AI wonkiness isn't really an issue for me. She also has pretty good survivability on the Winter Palace mission, which IMO is the place we are most likely to die (basically because for most of it we don't have a full focus bar on Sera, so we need to do the most "actual fighting")

That's not to say Dorian would be bad necessarily, I just think Vivienne has quite a few useful attributes that would make her less expendable. I think the real question would be Dorian or Solas. Walking Bomb is definitely nice, but the bonuses from the weakened debuff from rift mage are good too. Not entirely sure.

Hadn't considered 2H warrior, but I think being ranged plus having more AOE type attacks seems better. I'd have to look more into it, though.

DashingSplash

2015-01-12 03:09:03 am

As letterswords said, it is more a question between Dorian and Solas; however, from what I've heard a lot of Dorians specialization abilities can bug the game. Not entirely sure on this point, but I'm not sure if Dorian would make it all faster (we will have to try different specs out). Another problem would be to know how much we would have to change certain decisions for Dorian to not leave (perhaps we don't have to change any decisions).

I never actually thought about charging bull, so I'll have to try that one out. I'm not entirely sure if it will change any routing, but from the top of my head it should affect any skips. The problem is survivability as a 2-handed warrior is pretty much a glasscannon, but I'm sure the FT-Obsidian can take care of that. Also, Fade Step is kinda neat since I've found plenty of glitches/skips with it, but it was never needed to complete it. Perhaps Charging Bull hold some really good value when it comes to finding some good ones.

Thanks a lot for your suggestions; really helpful, and much appreciated.

As letterswords said, it is more a question between Dorian and Solas; however, from what I've heard a lot of Dorians specialization abilities can bug the game. Not entirely sure on this point, but I'm not sure if Dorian would make it all faster (we will have to try different specs out). Another problem would be to know how much we would have to change certain decisions for Dorian to not leave (perhaps we don't have to change any decisions).

I never actually thought about charging bull, so I'll have to try that one out. I'm not entirely sure if it will change any routing, but from the top of my head it should affect any skips. The problem is survivability as a 2-handed warrior is pretty much a glasscannon, but I'm sure the FT-Obsidian can take care of that. Also, Fade Step is kinda neat since I've found plenty of glitches/skips with it, but it was never needed to complete it. Perhaps Charging Bull hold some really good value when it comes to finding some good ones.

Thanks a lot for your suggestions; really helpful, and much appreciated.

letterswords

2015-01-12 09:27:53 pm

twitch.tv/letterswords

Did a run with the new route, here's some data:

So there's what my times look like comparing the two routes. The important things to note are that my Corypheus split in new route was completely garbage and not due to the tier 2 weapons (sera just kept dying/thousand cuts wasn't hitting corypheus). Also bad was Winter Palace and Western Approach (i had to reload once on the fade rift part, and after reloading i still had Sera die, which made the western approach split bad.) Some of the bigger time saves later on were due to bad things about my old route PB (crashes and failed clips and stuff), so really only use the Adamant Fortress and mythal exterior splits as reference points for what happened afterwards. Really the only super important thing to note from this is that there wasn't really anywhere I was losing significant amounts of time due to tier 2 weapons (other than maybe corypheus, but its impossible to judge with how bad my fight was in general). Also, my duping in the post-plaideweave section in new route was pretty bad, so I can definitely save even more time over old route there (I forgot to learn the multi-item duping method and messed around with it a bit and failed a bunch, so switched back to single item duping). Overall I guess the important thing is that it pretty much definitely saves time to do it this way.

Did a run with the new route, here's some data:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/do54vrG.png[/img]

So there's what my times look like comparing the two routes. The important things to note are that my Corypheus split in new route was completely garbage and not due to the tier 2 weapons (sera just kept dying/thousand cuts wasn't hitting corypheus). Also bad was Winter Palace and Western Approach (i had to reload once on the fade rift part, and after reloading i still had Sera die, which made the western approach split bad.) Some of the bigger time saves later on were due to bad things about my old route PB (crashes and failed clips and stuff), so really only use the Adamant Fortress and mythal exterior splits as reference points for what happened afterwards. Really the only super important thing to note from this is that there wasn't really anywhere I was losing significant amounts of time due to tier 2 weapons (other than maybe corypheus, but its impossible to judge with how bad my fight was in general). Also, my duping in the post-plaideweave section in new route was pretty bad, so I can definitely save even more time over old route there (I forgot to learn the multi-item duping method and messed around with it a bit and failed a bunch, so switched back to single item duping). Overall I guess the important thing is that it pretty much definitely saves time to do it this way.

DashingSplash

Edit history:

DashingSplash: 2015-01-13 04:04:03 am

2015-01-13 04:00:55 am

Okey, so the changes I suggest (with your input and mine) that we make to the route is as following:

Instead of Tier 3 weapons we grab the masterwork schematics from the war table, but we also grab the three
tiers of mats from the war table (with inquisition perks). The last one gives two tier 3 metals; which, means that
we won't have to go down to the Rift in Crestwood. We will therefore grab the Embrium at the war table, and tbh
it is actually pretty fast. I would say that ~70 is a good number of Embrium, so 11-12 times is a good number.

The cave you suggested (for Plaideweave) seems better than my save-scumming and fighting, as we don't have to
fight, and it is a pretty short distance to run. I can also confirm that the white dots in a straight line is where one
shouldn't cross before quicksaving. Otherwise it will screw everything up.

The other thing that we need plenty of is Iron...Atleast 400, but I would say 450-500 is on the safe side. 200 Obsidian,
seems to be just enough (in most cases), so again 225-250 would be a good number. Now, as long as we get enough
Plaideweave, and Druffalo Hide during this dupe we should be satisfied for the Tier 2 weapons (along with red lyrium and
blank runestones).

I actually did the later half with tier 2 weapons without runes, with Silverite (Inquisition Perk), Plaideweave, Druffalo Hide,
and the Fade-Touched Obsidian. You do get Plush Fustian Velvet and other materials that are better from the Inquisition Perks,
but it would require a second time duping...Which, we have to do with the new Tier 3 metal, but duping several items
(even in the new way) takes more time.

Also, I had no grip on Sera's two daggers as the Inquisition Perks didn't provide any...But, I did fine at every fight...
Well, I got them down at the first try, but it was much harder. I also played with Dorian instead of Solas, and the Walking bomb
is nice, if you get it off, but to be honest, most enemies dies before the 10 seconds is up. Solas provide some very needed
survivabilty with these crappy weapons.

I believe you get extra weapon schematics for the class that the Inquisitor is, so playing Warrior would give grips,
but no grips/blades for Staffs. I also played a bit in the beginning with a Warrior, and I must say there is some impressive damage,
but the Charging Bull doesn't really seem that impressive (could be wrong though). Will have to try one run as a mage,
and one as a two-handed warrior to be sure.

With Tier 2 weapons, the final battle got a bit longer, but I'm sure that grabbing Emprise du Lion takes longer than the added time.

As can be seen in table 1, we skip Emprise du Lion, Suledin Keep, and the Plush Fustian Velvet. This should save about 10-15 minutes
minus the amount of time it takes to get 3000 influence from requisitions. I think I might be a bit optimistic when I look at my livesplit
segment times there, but around that amount of time. Overall, I think the new Plaideweave spot might save time aswell.

After that, we will most likely lose a bit of time due to less damage output.

I also tested the Templar Quest barrier at different stages, and it sadly didn't work to skip all the fighting – not even when you waited
for the Templars to destroy the barriers. However, it would be nice to skip having to light the Veilfires and just skip that part with clipping of some sort.

The fade barrier, just before the boss, is almost impossible to get through. I never got through, but I was close on one occasion; however,
I'm not even sure if the boss would spawn if we did get through.

I might have missed something here, but you can always remind me if that's the case.

Okey, so the changes I suggest (with your input and mine) that we make to the route is as following:

Instead of Tier 3 weapons we grab the masterwork schematics from the war table, but we also grab the three 
tiers of mats from the war table (with inquisition perks). The last one gives two tier 3 metals; which, means that 
we won't have to go down to the Rift in Crestwood. We will therefore grab the Embrium at the war table, and tbh 
it is actually pretty fast. I would say that ~70 is a good number of Embrium, so 11-12 times is a good number.

The cave you suggested (for Plaideweave) seems better than my save-scumming and fighting, as we don't have to 
fight, and it is a pretty short distance to run. I can also confirm that the white dots in a straight line is where one 
shouldn't cross before quicksaving. Otherwise it will screw everything up.

The other thing that we need plenty of is Iron...Atleast 400, but I would say 450-500 is on the safe side. 200 Obsidian, 
seems to be just enough (in most cases), so again 225-250 would be a good number. Now, as long as we get enough 
Plaideweave, and Druffalo Hide during this dupe we should be satisfied for the Tier 2 weapons (along with red lyrium and 
blank runestones).

I actually did the later half with tier 2 weapons without runes, with Silverite (Inquisition Perk), Plaideweave, Druffalo Hide, 
and the Fade-Touched Obsidian. You do get Plush Fustian Velvet and other materials that are better from the Inquisition Perks, 
but it would require a second time duping...Which, we have to do with the new Tier 3 metal, but duping several items 
(even in the new way) takes more time.

Also, I had no grip on Sera's two daggers as the Inquisition Perks didn't provide any...But, I did fine at every fight...
Well, I got them down at the first try, but it was much harder. I also played with Dorian instead of Solas, and the Walking bomb 
is nice, if you get it off, but to be honest, most enemies dies before the 10 seconds is up. Solas provide some very needed 
survivabilty with these crappy weapons.

I believe you get extra weapon schematics for the class that the Inquisitor is, so playing Warrior would give grips, 
but no grips/blades for Staffs. I also played a bit in the beginning with a Warrior, and I must say there is some impressive damage, 
but the Charging Bull doesn't really seem that impressive (could be wrong though). Will have to try one run as a mage, 
and one as a two-handed warrior to be sure.

With Tier 2 weapons, the final battle got a bit longer, but I'm sure that grabbing Emprise du Lion takes longer than the added time.

As can be seen in table 1, we skip Emprise du Lion, Suledin Keep, and the Plush Fustian Velvet. This should save about 10-15 minutes 
minus the amount of time it takes to get 3000 influence from requisitions. I think I might be a bit optimistic when I look at my livesplit 
segment times there, but around that amount of time. Overall, I think the new Plaideweave spot might save time aswell.

After that, we will most likely lose a bit of time due to less damage output.

I also tested the Templar Quest barrier at different stages, and it sadly didn't work to skip all the fighting – not even when you waited 
for the Templars to destroy the barriers. However, it would be nice to skip having to light the Veilfires and just skip that part with clipping of some sort.

The fade barrier, just before the boss, is almost impossible to get through. I never got through, but I was close on one occasion; however, 
I'm not even sure if the boss would spawn if we did get through.

I might have missed something here, but you can always remind me if that's the case.

Attachment:

Table.png

letterswords

2015-01-13 06:05:28 am

twitch.tv/letterswords

Nah, that route looks about right. I did go with the tier 3 materials from the perk in that run, and i agree on it probably being mainly worth it to dupe metal.

As far as the plaidweave location goes, im not 100% sold on it after doing a run. It took me quite a while to get some, although its hard to say if on average it would still be faster.

One other route change you could try is cutting out fade-touched obsidian. I think, though, that even if it saves a couple minutes on the hinterlands route the lost survivability is probably not worth it.

Hauwlyn

2015-01-13 01:43:54 pm

I never considered Dorian replacing Solas, Solas is indeed too good at his job.

If we stay on mage, shouldn't we consider going with Qunari rather than Human? Vitaar bonus damage is especially good on staves and their naturally low base weapon damage. Even on 2h warrior, I wonder how the additional damage from being one skill point ahead may compare to Vitaar bonus damage, though compared to mage I suppose it is quite low. I wouldn't underestimate 2H AoE though, it has a lot of good things: sustained whirlwinds, mighty blow and earthshaking strike are all rather good.

Also, shield bash from Cassandra against the Red Lyrium Dragon rather than Vivienne? Is is a really useful skill. Could even take it also on a warrior inquisitor, with the option to respec or just to use the last points to get it, and have a sword & shield ready for that. I get that Spirit blade looks like it is quite good, but we have to keep in mind that it multiplies the low base damage of a staff, compared to the rather high base damage of a 1H warrior weapon.

It brings up a consideration though: is it worth duping and crafting a bit more for the purpose of involving more characters in the post-crafting part of the run?

I never considered Dorian replacing Solas, Solas is indeed too good at his job.

If we stay on mage, shouldn't we consider going with Qunari rather than Human? Vitaar bonus damage is especially good on staves and their naturally low base weapon damage. Even on 2h warrior, I wonder how the additional damage from being one skill point ahead may compare to Vitaar bonus damage, though compared to mage I suppose it is quite low. I wouldn't underestimate 2H AoE though, it has a lot of good things: sustained whirlwinds, mighty blow and earthshaking strike are all rather good.

Also, shield bash from Cassandra against the Red Lyrium Dragon rather than Vivienne? Is is a really useful skill. Could even take it also on a warrior inquisitor, with the option to respec or just to use the last points to get it, and have a sword & shield ready for that. I get that Spirit blade looks like it is quite good, but we have to keep in mind that it multiplies the low base damage of a staff, compared to the rather high base damage of a 1H warrior weapon.

It brings up a consideration though: is it worth duping and crafting a bit more for the purpose of involving more characters in the post-crafting part of the run?

DashingSplash

2015-01-13 02:35:53 pm

Quote from letterswords:

Nah, that route looks about right. I did go with the tier 3 materials from the perk in that run, and i agree on it probably being mainly worth it to dupe metal.

As far as the plaidweave location goes, im not 100% sold on it after doing a run. It took me quite a while to get some, although its hard to say if on average it would still be faster.

One other route change you could try is cutting out fade-touched obsidian. I think, though, that even if it saves a couple minutes on the hinterlands route the lost survivability is probably not worth it.

I've tried it out, and it should be faster overall. As it is RNG based it can be either good, or bad, so we kinda have to roll with it until we find a better solution to the problem. Much more fun to kill mobs than doing the cave (and also feels faster), but we are going for speed.

I would not cut the Fade-Touched in my run, but you can try it out if you feel like giving it a try. I had enough problems without the Fade-Touched as it was.

Quote from Hauwlyn:

I never considered Dorian replacing Solas, Solas is indeed too good at his job.

If we stay on mage, shouldn't we consider going with Qunari rather than Human? Vitaar bonus damage is especially good on staves and their naturally low base weapon damage. Even on 2h warrior, I wonder how the additional damage from being one skill point ahead may compare to Vitaar bonus damage, though compared to mage I suppose it is quite low. I wouldn't underestimate 2H AoE though, it has a lot of good things: sustained whirlwinds, mighty blow and earthshaking strike are all rather good.

Also, shield bash from Cassandra against the Red Lyrium Dragon rather than Vivienne? Is is a really useful skill. Could even take it also on a warrior inquisitor, with the option to respec or just to use the last points to get it, and have a sword & shield ready for that. I get that Spirit blade looks like it is quite good, but we have to keep in mind that it multiplies the low base damage of a staff, compared to the rather high base damage of a 1H warrior weapon.

It brings up a consideration though: is it worth duping and crafting a bit more for the purpose of involving more characters in the post-crafting part of the run?

Yea, I noticed that Dorian wasn't as good as Solas...The hard way. xD It could have been worse though, I could have tried to do a run with him.

As I mentioned, I'll try a run with both mage and warrior, and I think it would be best if you tried both options aswell. Ranged characters are really easy to handle, but I'm sure that a 2H warrior could provide plenty of damage -- no doubt about that.

The problem with the red lyrium dragon is that it will probably die faster than it takes to dupe the required items, and then craft the weapons. This is also an area we have to do more testing, as it does seem good on paper, and then it just falls apart due to one or another reason.

[quote="letterswords"]Nah, that route looks about right. I did go with the tier 3 materials from the perk in that run, and i agree on it probably being mainly worth it to dupe metal.

As far as the plaidweave location goes, im not 100% sold on it after doing a run. It took me quite a while to get some, although its hard to say if on average it would still be faster.

One other route change you could try is cutting out fade-touched obsidian. I think, though, that even if it saves a couple minutes on the hinterlands route the lost survivability is probably not worth it.
[/quote]

I've tried it out, and it should be faster overall. As it is RNG based it can be either good, or bad, so we kinda have to roll with it until we find a better solution to the problem. Much more fun to kill mobs than doing the cave (and also feels faster), but we are going for speed.

I would not cut the Fade-Touched in my run, but you can try it out if you feel like giving it a try. I had enough problems without the Fade-Touched as it was.

[quote="Hauwlyn"]I never considered Dorian replacing Solas, Solas is indeed too good at his job.

If we stay on mage, shouldn't we consider going with Qunari rather than Human? Vitaar bonus damage is especially good on staves and their naturally low base weapon damage. Even on 2h warrior, I wonder how the additional damage from being one skill point ahead may compare to Vitaar bonus damage, though compared to mage I suppose it is quite low. I wouldn't underestimate 2H AoE though, it has a lot of good things: sustained whirlwinds, mighty blow and earthshaking strike are all rather good.

Also, shield bash from Cassandra against the Red Lyrium Dragon rather than Vivienne? Is is a really useful skill. Could even take it also on a warrior inquisitor, with the option to respec or just to use the last points to get it, and have a sword & shield ready for that. I get that Spirit blade looks like it is quite good, but we have to keep in mind that it multiplies the low base damage of a staff, compared to the rather high base damage of a 1H warrior weapon.

It brings up a consideration though: is it worth duping and crafting a bit more for the purpose of involving more characters in the post-crafting part of the run?[/quote]

Yea, I noticed that Dorian wasn't as good as Solas...The hard way. xD It could have been worse though, I could have tried to do a run with him.

As I mentioned, I'll try a run with both mage and warrior, and I think it would be best if you tried both options aswell. Ranged characters are really easy to handle, but I'm sure that a 2H warrior could provide plenty of damage -- no doubt about that.

The problem with the red lyrium dragon is that it will probably die faster than it takes to dupe the required items, and then craft the weapons. This is also an area we have to do more testing, as it does seem good on paper, and then it just falls apart due to one or another reason.