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letterswords: 2014-11-29 10:03:17 am
So this game has been out for about a week now, so I figured I'd see if anyone else is interested and share some initial thoughts on a (theoretical) speedrun.

The main problem with a speedrun is clearly going to be acquiring the power you need to trigger story missions. Doing some sidequests is going to be unavoidable, certainly, but it may be possible to limit the damage quite significantly. If you can pick up enough influence to get a few inquistion perks, you can unlock the ability to get a vendor who will basically directly sell you power/influence increases for gold. There is also currently a glitch in the game (as described here ) that allows you to buy and resell the items you buy from him, and it will still trigger the influence gains and power gains, and it will cost a net zero gold to accomplish. I'm not sure how to trigger the war table operation to bring him to skyhold or how long it takes to complete though. I have to imagine at some point though it will save time compared to doing sidequests because of how high the power requirements can get late-game.

Other considerations include what class to play as. I'm also sort of aware of some glitched damage bug with flask of fire and thousand cuts, which are both tempest abilities (described here: Presumably it would be too out of the way to get the specialization yourself, but you could just play as sera exclusively once she unlocks her specialization and respec her so you can get that combo really fast, assuming its worth it. Either way, I think you'll probably want to main one of the party members once specializations are unlocked.

Things I still don't know: if there is an optimal import. Does anyone know what happens after the Temple of Mythal if no one drinks from the fountain and Morrigan has no son to be kidnapped? Does that skip the Flemeth stuff and lead directly into fighting Corypheus? Also considerations: whether different Hawke classes do different amounts of damage (relevant in the sections where he fights alongside you, although probably not that significant), whether you get extra cutscenes anywhere depending on your import, or really anything else. Also, I sided with the mages at the beginning of the game in my only playthrough, so I'm not sure what happens differently if you side with Templars.
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ogam: 2014-11-29 02:39:17 pm
When you enter a boss room and a barrier comes up at the entrance/exits, you can have your party members stand next to a barrier and nudge an npc through. So for example you can skip imshael and capture the suledin keep.

With a solid door and flask of lightning you can clip through by pushing your party members in the same way.
A somewhat complex way of getting infinite skill points: locked door in crestwood has a chest behind it with an amulet of power. If you take only the amulet, and leave everything else in the chest, and then leave crestwood and return, it respawns.

Also, I played the Templar version of the Mage-Templar decision for the first time, and it feels a bit longer than the mage version; boss also seems a bit harder too. However, the Templar mission you can go directly into whereas for the mage one you have to make a bit of a detour to redcliffe (might not be a big deal if you are going there for sidequests or something to amass power anyways), so hard to say for sure.

Also, better look at the tempest combo i described earlier: .

Seems likely that we would need to keep an unpatched version of the game going forward, as bioware tends to patch this kind of stuff out.
Been looking into speedrunning this game aswell! How fun to see more interested! (:

I found a slingshot glitch in Haven that can sling you across the whole map, though I haven't found any use for it at all; I found it when I tried to figure out a way to get out of bounds, and get myself into the cave that you throw yourself in after you cause the landslide in Haven (just before Skyhold), but too many invisible walls in the game. Plus, there is most likely no loadzones in that cave. Anyway, in the end, I hardly think it has any use in that particular area. Perhaps there are other slingshots hidden?

I'll see if I can download OBS, and stream on twitch to get a highlight of the slingshot glitch (even if it might be useless); the slingshot glitch seems to require pausing and jumping while in the air to keep momentum forward, but it is rather simple.

Which difficulty did you have in mind for the speedrun route? Friendly fire on or off? Just go with Easy and FF off for a start? As for what class to play: I've only played a mage so far. And, 'Energy Barrage' is an excellent early ability (atleast on Nightmare with FF on). Same with 'Static Cage' -> 'Lightning Cage' for later levels. And, it doesn't seem to affect party members with FF on. Also, some gathering and crafting can give really high-damage 'Energy Barrages' early on (if you find a good staff schematics). But!, Tempest looks really nice, and I've heard plenty of great things about Knight-Enchanter. Perhaps there is a way to glitch 'Fade Step' so you can keep the momentum for a much longer time? That would certainly make the Mage a rather interesting choice.

Hmm, I do wonder if it is possible to clip through the door into the boss for the mage decision. The current one does seem to require 'Flask of Lightning' as Ogam said, and that's a Tempest skill right? When do you get specialization? At a certain level, skillpoint, or is it upon arrival to Skyhold? My teammates got it when I arrived at Skyhold, but it coincided with my teammates leveling up.
I don't remember the mage decision scene, still on first playthrough slowly trying to enjoy it.

When clipping through doors and barriers you skip a lot of the spawn triggers and some of these triggers are sequential so you can skip sections more easily without fighting. Such as the battlements when facing the grey wardens going through the iron bars instead of using the stairs skips a couple pride demons, or skipping the collecting memory part in the fade will cause the monsters in the corridors to not spawn.
Haha, yea I'm still on my first playthrough aswell! Though, I'm not very far in, and so far Nightmare has been...easy. /: I was hoping FF would make it a lot harder; alas, it didn't.

Ohh, that certainly is rather neat I must say. The question is: can one get Tempest spec before mage decision (I assume Tempest is needed for clipping through doors); the chamber that Alexius is in has a door that requires you to kill plenty of mobs. The barriers you are talking about, are the invisible walls that prevent you for going out of bounds included?
I would say soft walls, npcs can go through but you can't. Some boss fights locks you in that way.
Ahh, like the Ishmael fight you mentioned. Hmm, the Dragon Age: Origins speedrun utilizes ones companions to get through doors by having them load back to the character in control (and end up on the other side of the door). Do you know if it is possible in DA: I aswell? I'ven't had much luck with it when I tried it.
Edit history:
letterswords: 2014-11-30 01:49:14 pm
letterswords: 2014-11-30 01:47:26 pm
As far as specializations go, your companions don't get specializations until Skyhold, so having them for the Alexius quest is out. There is another way to clip through very thin walls and such abusing teleporting when you go into tactical mode, but I'm not sure how useful it would be (video below), but it at least is usable without tempest. I'm pretty sure the exact trigger for them to get specializations is only reaching skyhold (no level requirement), but the inquisitor has to be level 10 I think before you can acquire the quests.

Knight-Enchanter (so Vivienne) might be the best option for a nightmare difficulty run, but seeing as the run is already going to be pretty long I'll probably stick to Easy difficulty. I guess we could standardize it at normal difficulty too like some games do but I don't really get the point of not playing on the easiest difficulty for a pure any% run. Also, I've already noticed in my early looks into a minimalist playthrough that we are going to be pretty severely underleveled; I was level 5 on the Templar mission fighting a good deal of level 8 or so enemies, so if we end up being able to abuse the vendor who sells items that give power increases the underleveling will only become more extreme.

As far as the teleporting through walls, I'll throw in my 2 cents since I've actually done runs of DA:O and DA2: this almost certainly will not work. It's fixed in the latest patch of DA:O, and also fixed in DA2 because they basically took a solution of making your teammates auto-follow you once you get a certain distance away even if you set them to hold position. I already noticed hold position not working too well in my casual playthrough of DA:I, but haven't messed around with it a ton. However, my guess is they basically did the same thing they chose to do in DA2.

Edit history:
DashingSplash: 2014-11-30 02:52:27 pm
DashingSplash: 2014-11-30 02:33:35 pm
I figured that there was some limitation like that for the specializations; which, is too bad. I did notice the teleportation thing with tactical mode as tactical mode can force me to the ground when I slingshot.

Yea, probably better to stick to easy. But, I usually have no problem defeating a group of level 8s on nightmare at level 3/4, so I don't see that as such a big problem; especially, if we go with easy. Will also depend on the group of mobs of course, e.g. level 8 rifts are out of the question at level 3/4 (on nightmare). Hopefully, we can take advantage of the crazy tempest build to minimize the under-levelling.

I did try it out a bit, and from what I've observed it seems like they have done as in DA2, but not 100% sure on that. Might be that they teleport them back, but at a certain distance etc. from the player. I did manage to get up on a mountain by Varric teleporting up though. Seems rather random. /:

Ah cool, you managed to clip into that hut, eh? Sweet. I also put origin to not update my games -- I hope that's enough.

Btw, is there a chat room to discuss planning etc.?
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letterswords: 2014-11-30 02:57:41 pm
letterswords: 2014-11-30 02:57:27 pm
Not as of right now, as far as a chatgroup. Maybe we could make a skype group? The most difficult part i think is going to be optimizing the sidequests we do to gain power (in areas where that is relevant).

I actually didn't find that clip, I just saw it posted elsewhere (same is true for the rest of glitches I've mentioned so far lol). Disabling updates will hopefully work, but I did make a backup of the entire game folder for myself just in case. Hopefully it will be easy enough to separate the changed files should it come to that.

As far as the underleveling not being a huge problem, I agree early on but if we get to the point where we are forced to fight solely mobs 6+ levels higher or something crazy it would certainly be a problem. However, that wouldn't happen until well after we gain access to party specializations, so tempest may trivialize it even on nightmare. Just thought I'd throw it out for anyone thinking about nightmare specifically. Also, I did confirm that specialization for party members appear to trigger after reaching Skyhold, as I was only level 7 when I got there in my second playthrough (specifically, they showed up in the first place I traveled outside of Skyhold after going there for the first time).
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DashingSplash: 2014-11-30 03:55:25 pm
DashingSplash: 2014-11-30 03:28:00 pm
Skype group sounds good -- I do like Skype. :3 I'll PM you my Skype ID, and you can add me if you want.

Yea, we will just have to play through the game several times to find a good route. Perhaps timing the quests when we do playthroughs? I guess one of the first things might be to get the mount though (and finish quests on the way there).

Oh, that's a good thing to do. But, hopefully origin won't decide to be rude. "^" I know steam has been...Less pleasant when it comes to my settings. /:

I don't think anything under level 10 will be much of a problem, and levelling to level 10 should be fast; especially, if we find another area like the one in Crestwood (more skillpoints right?)-- but for a lower level. Might be hard to get to level 10 though if one fights against level 12s at level 6 (guard glitch for Cassandra or something? xD). Hmmm, that's good though if our party members get specialization so early! Sera is a tempest right?
Ok, I made a skype group, anyone else who is interested can message me I guess.

As far as the initial route, I'm pretty sure the way to start (after the introduction) when you get brought to the hinterlands is to go west towards the stablemaster, hit the 2 camps along the way, plus a rift, and then grab the wolves quest from the stablemaster's wife, and do that quick. That gets you the 4 power you need to go to Val Royeaux and unlocks mounts. It might be best to just get the additional 15 power you need for mages or templars in the first trip as well, but you get 1 power for recruiting people, so picking up Sera and Vivienne in Val Royeaux (especially when you probably want at least Sera anyways since she is Tempest) then coming back to the Hinterlands seems better to me.

I agree that at low levels being underleveled won't really be a problem; the only tough parts early on are probably the boss fights at the end of the templar/mage quests and maaaaaaaybe some of the fights during the attack on Haven. We can also immediately grab the Flask of Fire+ Thousand Cuts combo on Sera as soon as she unlocks Tempest by respeccing her. Might also be a good idea to respec her to use daggers a bit too depending on how many skill points we have left, since Tempest seems to be somewhat of a close range spec, and having played through the game, good daggers seem relatively common along the main quest.
Great! Perhaps the timezones won't make it too hard though. öAö

Also, don't forget the treasure map at one of the Inquisition camps (the treasure is along the way to the farm) and I believe it will give power, as it is a quest, along with the treasure of course; it is an easy way to get power needed for later. Also, a visit to 'Fort Connor' would allow you to pick up the quest 'Templars in the West;' which, we have to kill to get to the waterfall treasure! 'Rifts at the Foothold' seems like a good one to do aswell along the way.

Btw, do you know if Knight-Captain Denam will show up as a behemoth mini-boss in the Haven raid if you go down the Templar route? You do kill him in the Templar route as far as I saw on your stream. As I mentioned, I haven't done the Templar route myself.

Daggers have crazy high dps in this game, and they are really easy to find. I always find great daggers in my playthroughs early on, so certainly a path I could consider very much! Would you say that Rogue is a class for the inquisitor though? We would have to do a quest in order to gain a specialization for the inquisitor; which, takes time since they are "collect a certain amounts of these" quests.  But, perhaps there is nothing faster, and might be obtainable when doing other quests for power. Let us say that we have Sera and Vivienne as party members, what would the third member be, and what class would be the best for our character? I feel like three mages (including Vivienne) with dispel would be a thing as it will make the rifts ridiculous. Just put down dispel on all the demons that are being spawned. But, how well those points are spent is another matter for the rest of the run not including rifts. Perhaps Solas and the inquisitor as Rift Mages would be great (Firestorm!)?

Btw, I did Valammar at level 4 on Nightmare with FF on. Was a bit tricky though since the Hurlock archers hit for plenty. ö-ö But, I managed to find a great way to skip groups of enemies by using cloak on Varric, and put my party members on hold; they basically teleported past groups of enemies! öAö Also used the Dwarves against the Hurlocks; which might be usable in other areas. Valammar doesn't seem to be worth it though since you need to get the key from the "Grand Forest Villa," and all Valammar really contains is some random loot and a tablet. We wont use the tablets for the run most likely.

The only thing that's really of value over in the "Grand Forest Villa" is the level 8 epic chest piece for warriors. I also seem to find "The Sweetish Finger" from the same Templar (the times I've been there) in the Templar camp for the quest 'Templars in the West.' Something you can confirm?
If you do Templar route instead of mage route, you get Enchanter Fiona as the haven miniboss. Ill have to test the other stuff but I did notice a few days ago that some of the more minor quests dont seem to give power increases so we'd have to actually check quest by quest unfortunately.

I''m not entirely sure what the best class for the inquisitor is. It could just be rogue since they have high early game dps, but once you switched to sera the inquisitor would be mostly useless. Maybe mage is a better choice because he'd survive better later on and having an extra barrier and dispel caster in the party would be nice? I'm probably going to test out exactly how good tempest is today so maybe that will help in the decision making
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DashingSplash: 2014-12-01 03:27:36 pm
DashingSplash: 2014-12-01 03:18:55 pm
Okey, manage to capture a video with the slingshot glitch; even a small surprise in the video aswell! öAö

I manage the Slingshot at 05:50, the next thing at 15:20, and last thing at 19:40.
wow, really cool that you can get back there, too bad its not useful. would be nice if we could find slingshots somewhere else that they might actually be useful.
It is rather unfortunate, but I'm sure there will be some use to it in the long run. As you said, it might be replicable in other areas, or I might be able to find something in the Frostback Mountains. I always seem to manage to find "slingshot" glitches in games. Was the same in Elder Scrolls Online, in where I repeatedly jumped on a spilt in a tree and all of a sudden I was slung across several loading screens that continued to load over and over (could also be done for shorter distances). This one was rather inconsistent though. ö-ö

I do wonder if getting into Redcliffe earlier would trigger anything. This game seems to check for stuff like that though, and uses the map to load into stuff aswell. Perhaps we need to abuse the map somehow, like how we can use the computer's clock to complete operations.
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DashingSplash: 2014-12-03 05:55:44 am
Found something else; perhaps, it will have more use in other areas (you'll have to excuse the framerate drop in the beginning and end of the video).

Also found a video of a Templar doing quite a lot of damage, perhaps it'll be of use?
Btw, how do you do the duplication of items step-by-step?
Duplication seems to only work for some stackable items, not all, but here's it pretty simply:

Move desired item to valuables.
Go to sell valuables at a merchant, then highlight over the item you want to dupe
Left click on sell all, then quickly hit spacebar to sell the highlighted item. If it works, you should see the stuff from your valuables all disappear in the background, but a window should pop up asking you how many of the item you want to sell
Buy back the item and repeat. It will only dupe at max 99 of an item even if you sell a larger stack.

I'm going to try to proceed through the rest of the game just to get an idea of how difficult the rest of the missions will be and how much time duping and such will actually take, and maybe get some new ideas of where to test out clips.
Today's testing results:
The requsitions you get repeatedly tend to be completely random from what I can tell. However, due to a bit of coincidence, it still is best theoretically to do the requistions in Crestwood because its possible to get infinite of every item used in the requistions.
You need Plaidweave, Druffalo Hide, Iron, Obsidian, and Embrium to satisfy all the possible requirements. Unfortunately, embrium can't be duped (the rest can) and the vendor in crestwood that sells it doesn't appear until after you've done the quest to clear the rift in Old Crestwood, which requires first claiming the keep. In theory, at least. I was trying to find out if it was possible to clip directly up to where you claim the keep without triggering the fights, when the following happened: . This pretty much appears to be the same as the Haven flying glitch. However, it could potentially be useful. If it can be replicated, it puts us in an area that makes it possible to reach the dam without having to first do the keep, and we can trigger the dam and Old Crestwood. It also appears the trigger for the merchant appearing in Crestwood isn't finishing the quest, but just clearing the rift, as he appeared as soon as I went back to Crestwood, without having to complete the quest. I then could buy a bunch of embrium since the merchant has an infinite supply, and duping other items gives me access to infinite gold, so embrium supply isn't a problem, its just more complicated to get a lot of. I then confirmed that getting up to rank 6 influence will indeed trigger the operation to get Farris the Representative, and after that our power needs for the rest of the game are satisfied.

The question now though is whether its better to go for the requisitions still to get to rank 6 influence or do it some other way. I noticed during my playing today that at around 4 levels below an enemy it starts to become really hard to deal much damage to them. If we end up needing to grind a few levels somehow, it might be better to just combine the influence gaining and exp grinding into one by doing rifts, sidequests, etc. I also think that Knight-Enchanter (playing as Vivienne) might end up being the best idea because ability damage didn't seem to get scaled down as much as auto attack damage against 4+ level higher enemies, and Knight-Enchanters can pretty much avoid using auto-attacks completely. They also have really good survivability, which would be another useful thing if we are underleveled. If that ends up being the best direction to go in, I might want to look into going out of the way a bit to maybe get some good gear to help lessen the effects of being underleveled as well, but its hard to say whether or not that would be worth it yet. Also, since crafted gear doesn't have level requirements, if we can get a high level schematic early on somehow that could also make a huge difference.
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ogam: 2014-12-03 10:05:05 pm
You claim the keep at Emprise du Lion without fighting anything as long as you clip through the doors or if you find a nice hill to launch yourself to the claiming point. That'll allow for t3 recipes as well as a crafting spot. It's a bit of a hike though and power cost..
Power cost would be irrelevant. The real question would be how early you can get there and how much of a diversion it would be to go there, clip into the keep, etc.