Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze

2014-07-02 02:56:04 pm

www.twitch.tv/ghoul02

Also, if you'd like, the game has a skype group. If you add me (dghoul2) I'll add you to the group. It's not always the most active, but it's probably the best way to get ahold of anybody immediately beyond this topic. Granted, most of us are pretty good at keeping up in here, so there's not a need to join if you don't want to.

TheGamePixel

Edit history:

TheGamePixel: 2014-07-02 03:40:42 pm

TheGamePixel: 2014-07-02 03:39:57 pm

TheGamePixel: 2014-07-02 03:39:55 pm

TheGamePixel: 2014-07-02 03:39:46 pm

2014-07-02 03:38:54 pm

Thanks Enkaybee, the info you gave me will be really helpful, you guys all have really good times. I'm on vacation right now so I can't record, but once I can, I'll record a run and submit my time. I also need to look over the previous messages here, cause I know you were talking about load times and the starting cutscene and I was curious about those too.

Thanks Ghoul, I'll add you right now.

PotatoGrenades

2014-07-03 04:41:21 pm

I'm very interested in running the 100% category. I only have a few questions, but i think i can get at least a decent run in without my Gamepad's battery dying out.
In 100%, would buying any more items from Funky even be viable? I know we get the 3 Diddy barrels and 2 Potions for Deep Keep, Sea Stack Atack, Current Capers and the Fugu fight, the Dixie barrel for Panicky Paddles and the 3rd Potion for Seashore War. Since we need to get all KONG letters and beat all the levels, that would also mean completing the K Temples, which are pretty difficult (for me anyways, i don't know how you guys handle 'em). So, i thought of a little shopping list for the K levels:

Swinger Flinger: Dixie barrel
Bopopolis: Cranky/Dixie barrels + Green Balloon
Precarious Pendulums: Dixie barrel
Spinning Spines: Banana Juice + Heart Boost
Platform Problems: Dixie barrel + Green Balloon
Slippy Spikes: Dixie barrels + Banana Juice(...?)

Of course, if you're skilled enough, you don't need any of those. Besides, even if we would to take the wuss route and buy all those, it'd take A LOAD of tokens. Each partner barrel costs 15 tokens, so that's 112 tokens out the window already. I forgot how much Banana Juice, Green Baloons and Heart Boosts cost, but it's probably a lot, and we definitely won't be able to rack up that amount of tokens in a single go through the worlds. I also thought we could instead NOT do the K levels as they are unlocked and instead leave them to be done all in one bound before Secret Seclusion, or, if people really wanted to, we could do the K Levels LAST after we complete Secret Seclusion. I actually think leaving the K levels for last will MAYBE give us enough Tokens for the (mostly unnecessary) item shopping for safety.

Also, the final split. I'm planning on ending the run on 7-3, since that's the last level of the last World. Do i stop the timer when i hit the Goal Barrel at the end or when the "Congrats you just unlocked Hard Mode" message pops up on the screen? I'm kinda confused as to what i should do.

I'm very interested in running the 100% category. I only have a few questions, but i think i can get at least a decent run in without my Gamepad's battery dying out.
In 100%, would buying any more items from Funky even be viable? I know we get the 3 Diddy barrels and 2 Potions for Deep Keep, Sea Stack Atack, Current Capers and the Fugu fight, the Dixie barrel for Panicky Paddles and the 3rd Potion for Seashore War. Since we need to get all KONG letters and beat all the levels, that would also mean completing the K Temples, which are pretty difficult (for me anyways, i don't know how you guys handle 'em). So, i thought of a little shopping list for the K levels:

Swinger Flinger: Dixie barrel
Bopopolis: Cranky/Dixie barrels + Green Balloon
Precarious Pendulums: Dixie barrel
Spinning Spines: Banana Juice + Heart Boost
Platform Problems: Dixie barrel + Green Balloon
Slippy Spikes: Dixie barrels + Banana Juice(...?)

Of course, if you're skilled enough, you don't need any of those. Besides, even if we would to take the wuss route and buy all those, it'd take A LOAD of tokens. Each partner barrel costs 15 tokens, so that's 112 tokens out the window already. I forgot how much Banana Juice, Green Baloons and Heart Boosts cost, but it's probably a lot, and we definitely won't be able to rack up that amount of tokens in a single go through the worlds. I also thought we could instead NOT do the K levels as they are unlocked and instead leave them to be done all in one bound before Secret Seclusion, or, if people really wanted to, we could do the K Levels LAST after we complete Secret Seclusion. I actually think leaving the K levels for last will MAYBE give us enough Tokens for the (mostly unnecessary) item shopping for safety.

Also, the final split. I'm planning on ending the run on 7-3, since that's the last level of the last World. Do i stop the timer when i hit the Goal Barrel at the end or when the "Congrats you just unlocked Hard Mode" message pops up on the screen? I'm kinda confused as to what i should do.

Ghoul02

2014-07-03 06:30:35 pm

www.twitch.tv/ghoul02

Final split should be the message at the end, I think. That's the most consistent spot to do the split, kind of like how we wanted to switch to on punch instead of on final hit.

As far as item shopping goes...

Secret Seclusion isn't unlocked until you beat every K level, and the final boss. For optimal movement, the K stage should be beat before the boss in each world, to save the barrel fire and movement to and from the K stages.

1-K would be nice to have a green balloon, more so than a dixie barrel imho. There are some rather stupid tricks that can easily miss.

Items in K stages is really tricky. On the one hand, if you die, it's punishment to whatever degree you got towards finishing the level. If you finish, all is good. Shopping takes about 40 seconds, so getting nearly clear then saved by a balloon should be faster, even with shopping than without. Still though... that's clearly not optimal. My advice would be to grind them out until you're pretty sure you can clear them every time. Speed isn't necessarly as important as clearing at that point. I think moving the first shop up to world 2 might be fine, but shopping in world 1 seems wrong unless we can't figure out a better way to do that.

Final split should be the message at the end, I think. That's the most consistent spot to do the split, kind of like how we wanted to switch to on punch instead of on final hit.

As far as item shopping goes...

Secret Seclusion isn't unlocked until you beat every K level, and the final boss. For optimal movement, the K stage should be beat before the boss in each world, to save the barrel fire and movement to and from the K stages.

1-K would be nice to have a green balloon, more so than a dixie barrel imho. There are some rather stupid tricks that can easily miss.

Items in K stages is really tricky. On the one hand, if you die, it's punishment to whatever degree you got towards finishing the level. If you finish, all is good. Shopping takes about 40 seconds, so getting nearly clear then saved by a balloon should be faster, even with shopping than without. Still though... that's clearly not optimal. My advice would be to grind them out until you're pretty sure you can clear them every time. Speed isn't necessarly as important as clearing at that point. I think moving the first shop up to world 2 might be fine, but shopping in world 1 seems wrong unless we can't figure out a better way to do that.

NotSoNewby

2014-07-06 10:16:25 am

Just a small sidetrack, after doing some testing last night with Enkaybee, I've discovered a method to skip the shop (I know I always bring this up :p) that involves adding the 2nd controller.

By using a 2nd player as Cranky, you end up allowing for 3 hits instead of losing Cranky after just two, which greatly improves the punishing RNG. This allows you to complete Fugu at a reasonable speed without banana juice.

I've also re-visited an old strat Ghoul tested with using Cranky for 1-1 by starting the game in co-op mode instead of single player.

To note, you do not need to manipulate anything in game before the timer start and optimally, you do not need to even touch the 2nd controller to perform the 1-1 with Cranky or the Fugu.
One more slightly related note, and This is still in the hypothetic/testing phase, but it would seem a co-op run with two runners can produce a better time than single player. Plans are in the works to meet up in person with Michael Goldfish in the coming months to do serious testing on this idea to see what we can cone up with.

Just a small sidetrack, after doing some testing last night with Enkaybee, I've discovered a method to skip the shop (I know I always bring this up :p) that involves adding the 2nd controller.

By using a 2nd player as Cranky, you end up allowing for 3 hits instead of losing Cranky after just two, which greatly improves the punishing RNG. This allows you to complete Fugu at a reasonable speed without banana juice.

I've also re-visited an old strat Ghoul tested with using Cranky for 1-1 by starting the game in co-op mode instead of single player.

To note, you do not need to manipulate anything in game before the timer start and optimally, you do not need to even touch the 2nd controller to perform the 1-1 with Cranky or the Fugu.
One more slightly related note, and This is still in the hypothetic/testing phase, but it would seem a co-op run with two runners can produce a better time than single player. Plans are in the works to meet up in person with Michael Goldfish in the coming months to do serious testing on this idea to see what we can cone up with.

Ghoul02

2014-07-06 11:59:28 am

www.twitch.tv/ghoul02

The only problem is that at this point, we've established that the shop saves probably 10 seconds in 4-1, 3-5 in 4-1 3-5 in 4-4/4-5 (depending on where you switch), 3-4 in 6-2, and can save 20 in 6-5 with that cluster**** of a level. Even if we assume it costs an identical amount of time to add Cranky as a second player as equiping the banana juice... I'm not sure it's worth the risk in later levels. Seems like 10 seconds at best.

PotatoGrenades

2014-07-07 10:51:32 am

The co-op run seems cool, but adding a second controller just to save a bit of time on Fugu and 1-1 doesn't really seem worth the extra trouble. Besides, we have to pause the game at the map to drop out, which would mean wasting time inbetween levels. Co-Op Any% could be a good category, as long as it's a separated category. It'd be kinda unfair to have the Any% WR be co-op instead of single player. What if other runners don't have friends like me? Hahahahahahaha *sobs*

Enkaybee

2014-07-07 01:01:54 pm

twitch.tv/enkaybee

See, I've been kind of thinking the opposite. Co-op sounds pretty lame.

-There's never any instances of actions that can be performed in parallel (except maybe 2-Boss phase 1 and 3-Boss phase 2), so there's never a good reason to have a second player.
-You can't switch partners mid-level. this means that in order to complete the levels as quickly as possible, you'll need to switch before quite a few levels. And 4-1 and 5-4 have to be done with Dixie all the way through.
-The fastest way to move is by doing the continuous roll, which requires the partner to be on DK's back.

Basically it would boil down to a single-player run with partner switches wasting time outside of levels. the second player would just sit there and watch for 95% of the run.

PotatoGrenades

2014-07-07 02:55:32 pm

After reading Enkay's post, i kind of agree. The fastest way to move is by infinite roll, and even if you do go just as fast if you prefectly time your rolls with DK, it just wouldn't be worth it to do co-op. 2nd player wouldn't do shit. Games like SM3DW or Rayman Legends could have some good co-op potential, but not this, definitely not.

michael_goldfish

2014-07-08 10:30:56 am

Two green and a figurine

What about 100% puzzle% co-op? One guy can get the pieces while the other keeps moving forward, then we could abuse the heck out of the game teleporting offscreen players back to the one in front. I could see there being lot of nifty co-op abuse in order to get puzzle pieces and kong letters faster with 2 people. Also the bonus rooms would be way faster as well.

Enkaybee

Edit history:

Enkaybee: 2014-07-09 12:13:13 am

Enkaybee: 2014-07-09 12:12:34 am

Enkaybee: 2014-07-09 12:10:53 am

Enkaybee: 2014-07-09 12:03:39 am

2014-07-08 03:30:59 pm

twitch.tv/enkaybee

Ok now that sounds interesting. I wonder if it still lets you collect letters and pieces while offscreen.

In other news, I found something that probably isn't useful but is interesting nonetheless:

With proper timing, Uncle Diddles can get in here.

Newby, this solves the problem of doing 5-4 with Dixie for your shopless run nonsense. Thanks to Kruncha for pointing that out.
Ghoul, 4-1 is finicky and can take some time. 5-4 barely takes any longer than it does with Dixie. I found this by accident, to give you an idea of how consistent it is. It just sort of happened on 5-4. Easy.

Ghoul02

2014-07-08 06:11:51 pm

www.twitch.tv/ghoul02

How long did that take Enkay? Can that be consistent?

NotSoNewby

2014-07-09 08:50:18 am

More shopless tech!

Yes, Co-Op actually does sound bad after hearing you out.

Enkaybee

2014-07-10 08:33:49 am

twitch.tv/enkaybee

The shopless run is real.

Last night I was having a bad run (death on 2-1 and two deaths on 2-5), so instead of resetting I decided to skip the shop to see what happens.

Juiceless Fugu went really well. I kept Cranky until the second hit of phase 3. He scuttled around the screen once before I killed him.
I then proceeded to lose 1:55 on 5-1, 30 seconds on 6-3, miss a bomb throw on Bashmaster, and miss a hit in phase 3 of Fredrik.
Like I said, it was a bad run.

End time? 1:40:37.

PotatoGrenades

2014-07-10 01:21:33 pm

Ghoul, i tested this myself and yes it's consistent. The trick for entering 4-1 and 5-4 secret exits with Diddy is just alternating between underwater spinning and Diddy's jetpack move. With good enough timing, i got in both exit areas on my first try. Not very hard to figure out.

NotSoNewby

Edit history:

NotSoNewby: 2014-07-18 01:57:40 pm

NotSoNewby: 2014-07-12 10:45:33 pm

NotSoNewby: 2014-07-12 09:35:20 pm

2014-07-12 09:34:29 pm

So I have been writing up a detailed, updated route for the Any% run and I feel like Spike's first post needs to be updated a little bit since we're starting to get a lot more new runners interested in the game.

It's not completed yet, and some of the levels are just lacking description, but I think it's a bit better for newer players, and as just a reference point for current runners in thinking about new strats, etc.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HB76c4oam8XNV7iBcZkYJ0zrBrpEMuckcNScNRPAlUU/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone knows anything i'm missing, email me andrew630@gmail.com or message me on twitch /NotSoNewby

If anyone knows if this can be bumped to the first post, that would be ideal, as well, as the Doc can be editied anytime.

Edit: Thanks Spike for posting this on the first post! I hope to finish the full detailed route soon. I have also given credit to those involved with creating and developing the route so that if the document is linked in other places, the credits are there to those who put the effort into working on it.

So I have been writing up a detailed, updated route for the Any% run and I feel like Spike's first post needs to be updated a little bit since we're starting to get a lot more new runners interested in the game.

It's not completed yet, and some of the levels are just lacking description, but I think it's a bit better for newer players, and as just a reference point for current runners in thinking about new strats, etc.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HB76c4oam8XNV7iBcZkYJ0zrBrpEMuckcNScNRPAlUU/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone knows anything i'm missing, email me andrew630@gmail.com or message me on twitch /NotSoNewby

If anyone knows if this can be bumped to the first post, that would be ideal, as well, as the Doc can be editied anytime.

Edit: Thanks Spike for posting this on the first post! I hope to finish the full detailed route soon. I have also given credit to those involved with creating and developing the route so that if the document is linked in other places, the credits are there to those who put the effort into working on it.

PotatoGrenades

2014-07-28 12:55:30 pm

That route is really cool, though i do think it deserves a few more things. Even though it's probably not going to save an enormous amount of time in the long run, the route should probably give a mention to the fact that you can get both "Dixie-only" secret exits (Deep Keep and Panicky Paddles) with Diddy via swim cancelling, which, depending on how the levels go, effectively negates having to buy a Dixie barrel.

Plus, this will save time in the long run as Diddy's jetpack makes you move faster underwater than Dixie. 4-1 takes a bit, but it's consistent and saves us having to wait for the Dixie cycle. 5-4 barely takes any longer with Diddy, and to be honest Diddy is simply the best partner for 5-4 since 5-4 has a lot of underwater sections.

Also, i think it should be noted how Ba-Boom's health works, since the route doesn't detail it. Everyone knows this already, but it'd be nice to add this (IMO):

"The baboons have three health each, but you only need to defeat one to move onto the next phase. The Baboons' health are denoted by their fur color; pitch black means they are at full health. Light blue means they are at 2 health, and an even lighter blue means they are at 1 health. In the third phase, the ghost baboons do not count towards completing the phase, but destroy them just for safety in case you don't feel like dodging attacks for the next five hours.

That route is really cool, though i do think it deserves a few more things. Even though it's probably not going to save an enormous amount of time in the long run, the route should probably give a mention to the fact that you can get both "Dixie-only" secret exits (Deep Keep and Panicky Paddles) with Diddy via swim cancelling, which, depending on how the levels go, effectively negates having to buy a Dixie barrel.

Plus, this will save time in the long run as Diddy's jetpack makes you move faster underwater than Dixie. 4-1 takes a bit, but it's consistent and saves us having to wait for the Dixie cycle. 5-4 barely takes any longer with Diddy, and to be honest Diddy is simply the best partner for 5-4 since 5-4 has a lot of underwater sections.

Also, i think it should be noted how Ba-Boom's health works, since the route doesn't detail it. Everyone knows this already, but it'd be nice to add this (IMO):

"The baboons have three health each, but you only need to defeat one to move onto the next phase. The Baboons' health are denoted by their fur color; pitch black means they are at full health. Light blue means they are at 2 health, and an even lighter blue means they are at 1 health. In the third phase, the ghost baboons do not count towards completing the phase, but destroy them just for safety in case you don't feel like dodging attacks for the next five hours.

fujiko

2014-07-30 10:36:54 am

Hi! I'm new in this forum.
I have WR on 2-2 (1:27.47) as of now. I got the record last month, but I don't have capture board, so please watch the video on leaderboard in the game.
I'm trying new strat enabling about 0.2 sec improvement in the first part, but the latter part is difficult to run...

Enkaybee

Edit history:

Enkaybee: 2014-07-31 11:44:03 am

Enkaybee: 2014-07-31 11:42:58 am

2014-07-31 11:42:22 am

twitch.tv/enkaybee

Ok, so reopening the topic of load times:

Spike was testing it last night and by his timing, he's losing 40 seconds on worlds 1 through 3 alone. I'm not sure what was going on with that, because by my timing the whole game produces a difference of somewhere around 40 seconds between him and Goldfish. I have not, however, timed either his or Goldfish's new runs.

In any case, I think it's probably a good idea to standardize how we time-out loads for the future when we start needing to do so. I think audio cues are best. What I did for the 4 runs that I timed was this:

Loading into levels:
Load timing starts at the cannon blast sound on the "Ready to play?" screen.
Load timing ends when the corner of the tie first appears on screen. This is the least accurate part of my timing. Would it be better to go by the first note of the music once the level loads?

Loading out of levels:
Load timing starts at the moment the player presses 'A' on the results screen. It has the familiar menu-selection audio cue.
Load timing ends when the first note of the world map music plays. It has a slight run-up before the note actually hits, so it's very easy to time.

Ok, so reopening the topic of load times:

Spike was testing it last night and by his timing, he's losing 40 seconds on worlds 1 through 3 [i]alone[/i].  I'm not sure what was going on with that, because by my timing the whole game produces a difference of somewhere around 40 seconds between him and Goldfish.  I have not, however, timed either his or Goldfish's new runs.

In any case, I think it's probably a good idea to standardize how we time-out loads for the future when we start needing to do so.  I think audio cues are best.  What I did for the 4 runs that I timed was this:

[u]Loading into levels:[/u]
Load timing starts at the cannon blast sound on the "Ready to play?" screen.
Load timing ends when the corner of the tie first appears on screen.  This is the least accurate part of my timing.  Would it be better to go by the first note of the music once the level loads?

[u]Loading out of levels:[/u]
Load timing starts at the moment the player presses 'A' on the results screen.  It has the familiar menu-selection audio cue.
Load timing ends when the first note of the world map music plays.  It has a slight run-up before the note actually hits, so it's very easy to time.

PotatoGrenades

2014-07-31 06:07:11 pm

I think we should stop the load timing once the tie appears on screen. Same with entering levels. When you press Yes at "Ready To Play?", start timing once the tie appears and the loading screen also appears. I don't know if you wanna time out loads separately after the run or during the run itself (as in, pausing the timer as the run is going on).

michael_goldfish

2014-08-02 03:59:16 pm

Two green and a figurine

More load time feedback, oh man why did this have to be such an issue.

Loading into levels:
I'd like to start loads on pressing "A" on the "Ready to play?" screen. I'm not sure if this is the same as Enkay's timing or not, but it seems really easy and gets rid of any worries about the tie lagging while going across.
Load timing could end on any part of the tie going across, I'm thinking once it's completely across the screen. It's a really easy visual cue and there's no "laggy tie" issues either.

Loading out of levels:
Same idea as above, a good start seems like the "A" press when you're done the level (after it shows your kong letters/puzzle pieces). You can hear the sound and it's also a mandatory button press anyways. I'm a bit biased since I use this as my split timing but hey maybe there's reason to why I chose it Tongue

For ending I think it should be consistent with the end timing of entering levels, which would again be the tie being completely gone. I think visual cues would work better for this than audio cues just because you can see the tie moving across the screen to get ready for the press (you can also do it without high audio but that's a weak arguement :P)

This is just what I think but if nobody likes it that's fine, we really just need to all do it the same way. So anyone else who has their own thoughts put your ideas down too! It's not about the "best" spots it's just about us all using the same timing. Smiley

Good day to all and don't let inconsistent loads bog you down

More load time feedback, oh man why did this have to be such an issue.

[u]Loading into levels:[/u]
I'd like to start loads on pressing "A" on the "Ready to play?" screen. I'm not sure if this is the same as Enkay's timing or not, but it seems really easy and gets rid of any worries about the tie lagging while going across.
Load timing could end on any part of the tie going across, I'm thinking once it's completely across the screen. It's a really easy visual cue and there's no "laggy tie" issues either.

[u]Loading out of levels:[/u]
Same idea as above, a good start seems like the "A" press when you're done the level (after it shows your kong letters/puzzle pieces). You can hear the sound and it's also a mandatory button press anyways. I'm a bit biased since I use this as my split timing but hey maybe there's reason to why I chose it :P
For ending I think it should be consistent with the end timing of entering levels, which would again be the tie being completely gone. I think visual cues would work better for this than audio cues just because you can see the tie moving across the screen to get ready for the press (you can also do it without high audio but that's a weak arguement :P)

This is just what I think but if nobody likes it that's fine, we really just need to all do it the same way. So anyone else who has their own thoughts put your ideas down too! It's not about the "best" spots it's just about us all using the same timing. :)

Good day to all and don't let inconsistent loads bog you down

PotatoGrenades

2014-08-03 04:59:10 pm

That's actually a really solid method, Goldfish. However, how would our times go if we removed loads? 1:2X or maybe 1:1X? I'm not sure

spikevegeta

2014-08-04 03:50:31 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I'm completely fine with Goldfish's method, the only thing is getting used to pressing the split key the same time as the A Press, as I'm generally just mashing A until it lets me in due to small input lag with menus in this game. I could see getting used to it though.

NotSoNewby

2014-08-06 12:46:50 am

Thanks for the additions to the Route, potatogrenades. Updated.

Enkaybee

2014-08-09 08:01:22 pm

twitch.tv/enkaybee

Somebody get cracking on the fugu wrong warp. http://www.hitbox.tv/video/202531