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Enkaybee: 2014-05-14 04:41:29 pm
Enkaybee: 2014-05-14 04:37:24 pm
Enkaybee: 2014-05-14 04:33:56 pm
Enkaybee: 2014-05-14 04:26:29 pm
Enkaybee: 2014-05-14 03:42:04 pm
Enkaybee: 2014-05-14 03:41:46 pm
Hey Michael_goldfish.
You may be right about Dixie being on cycle.  I'll double check that tonight.  For some reason I recall getting there on Cranky's rotation in practice.  Starting with Cranky will also make getting there slightly faster.  Worth noting though is that if you do screw up somewhere and find yourself arriving at the barrel on its Dixie rotation, it's probably best to grab it.  Dixie's major time save is in the first half of the level.

I hesitate to tell you this because I want my record to stand, but here goes:
1) The cart you hang from at 0:31 - you can jump from that early with Dixie and it gives you a nice little momentum boost.  I was testing it last night and you can go at the third-to-last banana and hover slightly to make it to the cart with a penguin on it (which won't have the penguin on it because its spawn is triggered by the position of the hang-cart).
2) The conveyor belt thing near the end - you can just roll straight across those gaps.
3) You bumped into the platform with a penguin on it at the end.  That's a quarter of a second right there.

The ideal run would be to grab Dixie at the first barrel because she lets you skip the first cart ride, then grab Cranky at the second barrel because he's faster through the rest.  I don't know if the barrel cycles let you do that though.

EDIT: Okay.  The barrel changes to Dixie very near the time of your arrival.  Let's call it no time loss.  So Dixie will need to be better than 1:09.46 (my fastest Cranky time without using YOLO strats) for it to be worth it.  Last night you were at 1:09.47, but now you're at 1:09.24.  It's pretty much a wash at this point.  The question is whether Dixie is safer than Cranky.  I find it harder to use her, but that's probably Cranky muscle memory causing problems.

In other news, I'm getting pretty good at bouncing across the spiky balls consistently.  That's something.
Just a small backtrack, but does anyone have this game downloaded as opposed to having the physical disk? We could see if load times are shorter.
Edit history:
Enkaybee: 2014-05-15 07:16:56 am
Enkaybee: 2014-05-15 12:07:28 am
Ghoul02, NotSoNewby, and I discovered that Cranky Master Cranks can bounce on the snowflakes in 6-5 tonight.

...I didn't know the screen could scroll this fast.

EDIT: I agree with Ghoul02 in the post below this one.  Its seems that Cranky loses time in the first section because he can't jump down and (most likely) loses time in the second section because he can't jump up.  I'm still looking at the third section, but this can't be a purely Cranky level.  Maybe a Dixie/Cranky hybrid, though.
I played with it for an hour. I think it's still a Dixie level. First of all, I can't get a consistent feel for the momentum boost; even though I DID get to the log with like a 21 once. The bigger issue is what comes after. Cranky just can't get to the first spring after the second check in any timely manner. I thought about using the fire owl there to get on, but the spring flower is too far away. Riding the spring over requires a bounce or two because you're off cycle. Beyond that, Dixie would save a full cycle, since she can go directly into the barrel with that momentum boost and hitting the owl properly, which would negate most, if not all of Cranky's advantage. It's flashy, looks fast and cool with Master Cranks. But I just don't think this is doable consistently enough for SS, and I'm not even convinced it's faster in an IL setting.
Yeah after playing around myself, there are just too many points in the level where you can only go as fast s Solo DK would anyway. But I swear, this is what I imagined Enkaybee's face when I told him you could bounce off the snowflakes.
SNES rules!
Quote from Enkaybee:
Ghoul02, NotSoNewby, and I discovered that Cranky Master Cranks can bounce on the snowflakes in 6-5 tonight.

I actually knew that, but I didn't find any interesting use for it. I still think 6-5 is a Dixie level, but I might not be up-to-date on strats on that level, I actually haven't played the game in more than a week Smiley
I gave up pretty fast on trying to replicate the insane WR strat there...
Kruncha uses Cranky on 6-Boss, and I have to agree that it does seem easier.  Cranky's cane seems to instantly extend your hitbox downwards, which is useful here.

However, I'm having a lot of trouble going 9 for 9 on this boss.  Does anybody have a visual or audio cue for when to jump?  Where to stand?
SNES rules!
Quote from Enkaybee:
Kruncha uses Cranky on 6-Boss, and I have to agree that it does seem easier.  Cranky's cane seems to instantly extend your hitbox downwards, which is useful here.

However, I'm having a lot of trouble going 9 for 9 on this boss.  Does anybody have a visual or audio cue for when to jump?  Where to stand?

9/9 is really hard to get... When I worked on getting Shiny Gold on 6-Boss, I studied the WR video to find some interesting visual cues.
Here it goes:

- For the first 4 jumps, stand exactly at the middle of the stage and start jumping (full vertical jump) as soon as the boss lowers his head, just before he starts dashing towards you.
- For the 5th and 6th jumps, he starts being faster, so you should stand half a tile away from the center (choose the mid-tile furthest from the boss).
- For the last 3 jumps, he is really fast. So stand one full tile away from the center.

This kinda works, but it still takes practice. I didn't work on it a lot though, I actually stopped playing 6-Boss as soon as I got Shiny Gold on it. Grin
Edit history:
NotSoNewby: 2014-05-19 12:25:06 pm
NotSoNewby: 2014-05-19 12:08:05 pm
Enkay saw me just throw away a 1:48:00 to the boss. Although I messed it up big time, I usually jump slightly towards him, and then move slightly back to adjust my angle mid-jump. I carry Dixie for safety, and also because I can Kong Pow to get some safety hearts as well. To miss ANY of the 9 hits is just insanely punishing.

As for visual cues and standing, I usually stand one tile away from the middle and just wing it on hits no matter what speed he's at. I feel like it's one of those bosses where you just need to play it so much that you get comfortable with his speeds and how you need to jump.

I am interested in trying Cranky to see if I can get more consistent hits, though

EDIT: After fooling around with Cranky a bit, He definitely seems more consistent for the first 6 hits at least. The last 3 hits are still very tough, but at least the 3rd cycle isnt AS punishing on your if you miss a hit.
Edit history:
Enkaybee: 2014-06-08 03:36:32 pm
Enkaybee: 2014-05-19 02:00:00 pm
Enkaybee: 2014-05-19 01:57:20 pm
Yep, I'm in the same boat - the first 6 hits are easy, but the last 3 are just killing me.
Wow that 6-5 WR is ridiculous. How does hovering and momentum work exactly? I tried to understand how it worked while running 1-K but I never got the hang of it...
On 6-boss -

There are 6 tiles, right? And the boss stands on the last one. So it's kinda like this:


My setup, which *should* always work is something like this.
The first 5 charges are all the same speed. The moment he lowers his head to go, jump.

It has to be  a full jump with no flutter.
On the last 4, he goes faster. On this one, the setup is

Be careful not to run away too soon after hit number 8 or you can't get hit number 9. The boss is annoying and made for spaghetti, but theoretically beatable. After shiny gold, I'd recommend practicing on Hard Mode. You pretty much HAVE to be flawless there.

The momentum on stuff in 6-5, to my knowledge, works like how most parts to. Sliding momentum and DK's running/sliding momentum are tracked separately, and can be added or subtracted. There's also a certain period of time that you have to touch the ground in order to lose sliding momentum. So to keep it, in general, a roll and a jump will do it.

Hovering instantly removes the roll speed, and switches you back to your running speed. Not a huge deal with a massive momentum boost, but it does mean that you ideally hover as late as possible.
Two green and a figurine
I messed around with 5-1 some more with Enkay's tips, I managed to get Dixie strats down to 1:08.99 (sub 1:09 hype!!). I have a question though, when I jump off the cart around 30ish, how do I keep my momentum so that I can land onto the lower cart without slowing down a whole bunch? I couldn't get Dixie to keep her speed no matter what I tried (she always lost momentum when I stopped fluttering so I just gave up on the flutter during momentum all together). If I could keep the momentum I'd be able to save a pretty big chunk of time. Also between learning the rest of the route I'll be trying to do Dixie & Cranky together for 5-1 in actual runs (the barrel cycles don't work for the IL sadly).

Edit: The barrel's also work themselves out PERFECTLY in 5-1 to start with Dixie and Switch to Cranky (the first barrel you need to wait a tiny bit if you go through without getting hit at all, but the second barrel has literally zero wait time to switch to Cranky).
Two green and a figurine
Okay, so I just did the King Zing (Diddy x Cranky 5-1 strat) in time trial and got a 1:11.40 (no Enkay-bounce, quick end with Cranky). Assuming each barrel switch takes a full second (you just barely miss getting dixie in the IL), we subtract 2 seconds since we don't have to wait for the dixie barrel during a run. This puts the time to 1:09.40, which is still slower than my dixie IL or Enkay's Cranky IL. BUT it's still faster than the 3rd place time. This leads me to believe that the optimal strat is the Omega King Zing (Dixie x Cranky + Enkay-bounce), but I'm worried as heck about doing that in a run. xD So unless you're willing to go balls to the walls with based strats, I'd just use whoever you're more comfy with. I'll be sticking with Dixie since I like starting with her in 5-3, but Cranky is definitely still as viable and worth using if you don't like Dixie in 5-1.

Sorry Ghoul, the King Zing is gonna have to wait until I'm man enough to Enkay-bounce during a run. ;-;
Ok, so back to 4-A for a second because I almost lost a good run to it today.  That last platform that you stand on before you start the 4-step water skim is AFTER the trigger for the shark in the water, so if you pause there or even take too long landing there properly, the shark will hit you and your run will die.  I'd like to find out where exactly the shark's trigger is so we can more easily avoid this.
Two green and a figurine
I messed around with 4-A, it seems like the shark trigger is more complicated than just a location as I've had some spots that were semi-consistent (sometimes the shark would hit me, but other times it followed the cycle EXACTLY as if you didn't mess up). The closest location I've found that was 100% consistent during my bit of testing was this crack in the ship. So if I even mess up I'm going to go just behind the crack, wait for the ship to hop then proceed.

Also it seems that if you go beyond the trigger of the purple spike balls, there's no trigger to set them back up again (if someone else can confirm/deny that'd be good). I even did the spike ball strat, then went back as far as possible. The shark had a proper cycle but the spike balls still wouldn't cooperate.

Image here can't get it to post properly:
Edit history:
Enkaybee: 2014-05-26 02:33:58 pm
They said it couldn't be done.  It's done.  The Omega King Zing:
Edit history:
Kruncha: 2014-05-28 04:39:31 pm
Okay, I've been meaning to post on 3-boss for a while, because there are a few subtle things going on that I think not everyone is aware of, so here goes:

General notes: Not sure if everyone realizes this (I didn't realize until quite recently), but you can see how many hits each baboon has taken based on their color.  Each baboon starts out with very dark fur (nearly black).  After one hit, the baboon turns blue, and after two hits, it turns a very pale blue.  You only need to kill one baboon to enter the next phase, so as soon as you hit a pale blue baboon, you enter the next phase, even if you haven't hit the others at all.  (It's usually faster to hit them all anyway, but this can be useful knowledge if you've missed some hits on the other baboons.)

First phase: Bopping the baboons while they're swinging their hammers can be annoying.  I find that I'm more likely to take a hit if I jump toward them as they're swinging, and I get better consistency by just jumping in place and sticking my cane out.

When the two baboons come down from the sides, you can stand in the far left corner facing right, then tap right and Y once at the exact moment the baboon on the left touches the ground.  If done correctly, you should be able to hit the baboon without taking damage, and then you can just roll straight through toward the other baboon on the right.  This saves very little time, though, so don't worry about it if you don't bother with this.

Once you've taken out both baboons on the ground, stay in the right corner.  If you haven't messed up any jumps so far, only one baboon will come down instead of two, and you can move on to Phase 2 after bopping him.

Phase 2: Okay, this is by far the most important part: when the two baboons hang from the top and then drop down, bop the first one and then roll into the other one to knock him over, but DO NOT hit him again.  Wait a moment for the other baboon to hang from the top again, and THEN you can bop the knocked over baboon and also bop the other baboon when he comes down.  At that point, Phase 2 is done.  If you kill the second baboon too quickly, the baboons will enter another phase of throwing bombs from the sides of the stage, which is the most annoying pattern and a huge waste of time.  If you somehow manage to get 3 hits on the baboons while they are throwing bombs from the sides, you don't have to worry about this—you can just bop them both right away once they start hanging down.

Phase 3: Nothing noteworthy here; just try to keep Cranky (or lose him if you plan to use a Diddy barrel for 4-1).

I am bad at explaining things, so let me know if any of that was confusing.
Two green and a figurine
Some of you know, some of you don't. The new 6-2 strat is real.

I present to you, in association with Enkaybee and NotSoNewby, the Damage Juiced (name not final).

Viewer discression is advised.

Using a banana juice here allows you to do 3 damage boosts as well as give extra protection from hits and various spaghetti. The only problem is that it can't always provide both. If you get hit before the trio of owls the juice will not last long enough for the damage boosts across the vines, although if you get hit at the beginning you'll be glad to be at full hearts anyways. The damage boosts seem to save enough time to make up for selecting it for the level and possibly saves some extra time as well (not sure though). Either way, it's super simple and takes away a lot of the stress from that level at no cost of time.

You can have a banana juice here a number of ways: if you only use 2 juices during 4-Boss (and didn't buy a 4th juice), if you have 105 coins when you're at the shop, or you can buy the juice instead of one of the "runner's choice" barrels when you only have 90 coins.

I'm definitely going to be using this juice from now on as it's way too safe to pass up. The only pickle now is the scenario where you only use 2 banana juices on Fugu and bought a juice for 6-2. You'll be left with a juice after 4-Boss that we're not sure what to do with. As discussed, the rest of world 6 doesn't need the extra juice (you either die from pits or it's useless). The best candidate we've come up with so far is 5-6 since it lets you simultaneously do damage boosts without a care in the world and also keep Cranky at the end. If there are any level suggestions after world 4 you can think of tell the world, these juices are crazy.

Also green balloons are garbage, you can't even green balloon into green balloon
I timed it out.  It's a good strat, but it's not amazing unfortunately.

Assuming reasonably perfect play:
Doing it with juice it takes 31 seconds to get from the first high bounce off the spike penguin into the cannon barrel.
Doing it without juice, but with a damage boost at the second vine, the same distance takes 32 seconds.
Doing it the way we generally do it in runs (no damage boosts) would take somewhere around 34 or 35 seconds.

Take out equipping time and you end up not saving much, but the safety is still worth something.

Did you ever manage to flutter past the barrel in 6-5's second boost with a green balloon?  Does anything happen?  Does it go immediately to the credits?
Two green and a figurine
Yellow Speedrunner needs help with 6-Boss...badly. When I first started practicing, everything was normal. He'd do his running and I'd bop his head and I'd miss a couple and reset, whatever. But the last ~7 attempts he's only done two runs across the screen in the last part (after going 6/6). Ghoul mentioned not to run away from him quickly after the 8th hit, but I've tried staying right next to him and he'll still only do 2. Do I just need to get the hit earlier? I found a timing I'm really comfy with but apparently I'm set for a guaranteed 8/9 if he doesn't run the third time.

And no green balloon credit skip Sad
It might be hitting earlier then... Like hitting him too late on a charge registers it as hitting him on the next run or something.
Two green and a figurine
Update on 6-Jerk: I've confirmed that on the 8th bounce I need to hit him earlier. I tried jumping earlier than I was (and thus hitting him sooner) and so far he's always done the 3rd run when I do. So far so good. Ghoul you could be right, it's just really annoying that this is even a possibility during the fight.
Edit history:
Ghoul02: 2014-05-31 03:47:10 pm
The good news is cycle 3 is by far the least punishing area in that fight. Any other cycle is much longer.

EDIT: Dixie in 3-1 confirmed. Highlight with explanations below.