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spikevegeta: 2014-08-07 09:09:42 am
spikevegeta: 2014-07-13 06:12:55 pm
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Editing this as of 7/13/2014.

A lot has changed, most of this is just my route, but we can hopefully keep updating this.

Also, check out: Shoutouts to Notsonewby for making this, it goes into more detail

Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze any% route:

World 1:
1-1: Grab Diddy, as he is the only choice.
1-2: Keep Diddy until the final barrel, as he is faster on water. Switch to Dixie before the 3 grasshoppers near the end to make the jump up to the Finish barrel MUCH easier. You could keep Diddy alternatively, but again, it's harder.
1-3: Switch to Cranky at the start.
1-4: If you lose Cranky at the end of 1-3, don't bother grabbing the Diddy Barrel here, it's an auto-scroller.
1-Boss: You NEED Cranky for the fastest fight, wait on the Cranky Barrel cycle if you don't have him. Cranky can bounce on the spiked enemies, moving the fight along faster.

World 2:
2-1: Dixie is actually faster in this level due to her being able to make a HUGE jump off the slow platform 2/3rds of the way through, but due to the next stage, Cranky is better to keep here. However, if you lose Cranky during any point in 1-Boss/2-1/2-2, you'll be stuck without him until you get to 2-3.
2-2: First big moment of the run, one of the harder levels to learn and keep consistent at. Keep Cranky here, and learn how to store momentum off of swinging platforms. Everyone has different strats on how long to keep Rambi and where to have Rambi. Watch some top times, and find whatever works for you.
2-3: Again, keep Cranky through this level for the best time. Another tough level, all of it's cycles are based on the music.
2-4: Another Auto-scroller, jump up slopes in these.
2-5: Switch to Dixie at the start to cross longer gaps with her hover.
2-6: Switch to Cranky after the large in-door section with the flying penguins. Speeds up the end a little bit, and again, he is basically REQUIRED to speed up 2-Boss.
2-Boss: This boss is brutal and will ruin a lot of runs. Cranky is the man here.

World 3:
3-1: I personally keep Cranky here, but some prefer switching to Dixie at the first rotating barrel, as it can speed up the final section.
3-2: I also keep Cranky here, again, Dixie can save 1 second at the very end on the finish barrel.
3-3: Again, I've still got Cranky here, if you switch to Dixie in the last few stages, then you are stuck with her, and she IS slower. Skip the first Rambi Crate to catch better tornado cycles. Grab him before the tipping tree platforms. I then switch to Dixie with Rambi's charge in the first flying platforms section, and ditch Rambi Yoshi-Style to reach the Finish Barrel faster.

At this point, at the cost of about 20 seconds, you can go the Shop and buy stuff. Theoretically it's faster to skip it, but it makes 4-Boss MUCH scarier and some what RNG reliant. Others have found ways to make it more consistent though, so I recommend looking into it. If you do go to the shop, it's up to you what all you want to get, I get:

x3 Banana Juices(15 a piece, so 45 total Banana Tokens)
x1 Dixie Barrel(15 Banana Tokens)
x2 Diddy Barrels(15 a piece, so 30 Total Banana tokens)
Others buy no Diddy Barrels, more Dixie Barrels, some Green Balloons for 6-5 Safety, it's pretty much up to you, but I recommend at LEAST grabbing the 3 banana Juices, then figure out the rest from there.

3-4: All routes should have Dixie here, but switch to her at the first rotating barrel if you don't. She can hover over a few gaps in this level. Diddy is also acceptable if for some reason you have him.
3-5: You either have to switch to Cranky here or at the start of 3-B. I prefer to grab him here to avoid messing up cycles in 3-B. Dixie/Cranky are REQUIRED to reach the Secret Exit Finish Barrel.
3-B: Cool level, and not as hard as you'd think. Cranky is the man here. Also, while faster in the IL, it's better to make sure Cranky survives the end so you don't have to wait for the rotation at the start of 3-Boss.
3-Boss: Again, Cranky is best for bosses, since his cane can bounce on the spiked helmets of the baboons, and their swinging hammers. Cranky is basically required.

World 4:
4-1: If you sacrificed Cranky at the end of 3-Boss like I do, then enter this level with a Diddy Barrel from your inventory, and you'll get him before you reach the water. Diddy saves a TON of time in the water with his jetpack, so this is his world to shine obviously. If you forgot/didn't want to sacrifice Cranky in the last fight, then it's better to just grab the Diddy Barrel at the bottom of the first water section, which you only have to wait slightly for, but causes you to miss the Dixie Cycle halfway through the level, which is necessary to finish the level fast. You will take the secret exit here, which basically requires Dixie, unless you know how to swim against the current with Diddy, but again, it IS slower to do that.
4-A: Halfway through the level, you'll grab Cranky off the rotating barrel, which if you delay yourself about 1 second throughout the first section of the level, you should grab on the fly. Cranky is required to Cane Bounce off the Spike Balls near the end to reach the Secret Exit to 4-B
4-B: To note, this route of 4-1/4-A/4-B is faster by over 4 minutes to the normal route, so yeah, this is required. In the room you reach with the rotating barrel, you will have to wait until it rolls around to Diddy and Grab him. Again, Diddy is super fast in the water, so it's more then worth it, especially with how long the level is.
4-5: Whether you start this level with Diddy or not is unimportant. Just changes the spacing in the opening room. Grab Cranky off the first rotating barrel(going fast should mean you grab him without breaking stride). After the final Checkpoint, you have the option to break the box at the start of the final section and grab Diddy off the rotating barrel, which will allow you to skip breaking the crates at the finish barrel, as you can drop down and reach the barrel with Diddy's Hover(Super scary strat). Alternatively, you can enter this level with your other Diddy Barrel, and intentionally lose Cranky in the final section, which should give you Diddy before the finish barrels, and allow you to not have to wait for the Barrel Rotation. Either way, just make sure you finish the level with either Diddy or Solo DK, NOT cranky.
4-6: This is where most use their 2nd Diddy Barrel, even if they grabbed Diddy at the end of 4-5. Just allows you to be a little more aggressive throughout the level. To note, losing Diddy at the end of the level before the finish barrel is not important.
4-Boss: Equip 2 Banana Juices, 3 if you not confident in this fight. If you lose all 3 though by the end of the fight, if just makes 6-2 much rougher/a little slower. Grab Cranky at the start and get behind Fugu and Cane hit him until each of his 3 phases finish. Ideally, knock him towards the wall, which will turn him around faster. Practice this fight a lot.

Will finish this later.
Thread title:  
Edit history:
CrypticJacknife: 2014-02-23 05:42:54 am
CrypticJacknife: 2014-02-23 05:42:41 am
CrypticJacknife: 2014-02-22 04:26:09 pm
Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!
Yo dang this game is tech to the walls, I like I like :3

2-1 Windmill Hills - 1:14.57 - Dixie

EDIT: Replaced for IQ reupload, thanks Greena <3

I know you guys have access to the replays but I'm just posting for whenever I break ground ^^
Hope you are enjoying the game Cheesy

I'll still be cruising through to 100% so don't expect me to have anything to say on any% for a bit Tongue
I spent a little while today making a few vids. This game is a masterpiece, and the speed run design is still very much here.

These are shiny, which is nice but far far optimal or perfect.
Right now I don't have any good times at all, then again haven't really been trying. Hopefully I can catch up to the good times soon, though I prefer any% and might eventually route out other categories. Right now my target time, which I don't expect to get right away, is sub 2 hours. I have ran through the game 2 times with any% just to kinda get the feel and am getting everything else in a casual play before I really go hard at the game.
Edit history:
Ghoul02: 2014-02-24 03:10:29 am
Just curious, why is Diddy ever better than Dixie? Does the extra push up take away some side momentum? Seems to me that Dixie would be both faster and safer between her and Dixie. This is on land of course

Cranky is interesting, simply because his cane bounces keep roll momentum. If you can find a spot to roll jump and continue to bounce, you should consistently be able to get great times, which should be nice for single segment runs.

Also, I noticed something very interesting for Cranky. In one of the bonus stages, I managed to cane jump on the side of a moving platform, which added a pretty massive looking burst of speed. May be worth looking into, especially with the aforementioned momentum maintenance from the cane jump. Probably already discovered and used in some stages, but I thought it was cool.
I dislike the bosses for the most part. I feel like the final boss can just kill a run if you miss even one hit on his back. :S

Also, Anyone have a time estimate for an Any% yet? It feels shorter than DKCR for sure.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Ghoul02: Diddy is useful for underwater levels because his Jetpack boost is the fastest movement you can get in the water. And yes, the reason he is better then Dixie on certain ground levels is because he gives you immediate horizontal hovering as opposed to Dixie having a slight delay before going vertical. Pretty rare, but it's more optimal to use him on 3-4 and 5-5 among others, check the top times for each of those to see why.

NotSoNewby: No one can be sure of an estimate yet, but I'm guessing it's going to be about the same length as DKCR, probably a little under 1:30, maybe 1:25, but that would be pushing it.

To note a couple of negative aspects of running this is that the game starts with a 2:30 long opening cutscene. For some reason, Retro felt they should make that unskippable, despite the opening cutscene of Returns not being that way. Also, load times are inconsistent, so we may want to time load screens for determining top SS times in the future.
Edit history:
Ghoul02: 2014-02-24 11:32:14 am
Ghoul02: 2014-02-24 11:21:43 am
Ghoul02: 2014-02-24 10:42:28 am
Spike: I think that may be somewhat counterable by pumping Dixies hover. Trickier, but she can basicaly slow her descent a bit if needed, much like Diddy's. Then again, I'm a Dixie fanboy, so I'll be looking for Dixie strats anywhere I can

At least the music on the opening cutscene is fantastic. I run FFCC, which has a 4 minute unskippable intro. 2:30 will feel amazing.

Also, I noticed that load screens did seem very off. Seems like sometimes it loads fast, others very slowly. It's also difficult to tell since I've only gone through the game once and beat it 84% at the moment (need to find the secret exits in world 4 and 6). Did we ever test by opening and closing a level if the times are consistent enough to not need to go by individual level time? The lack of an in game timer really hurts there, unless we wanted to do a NG+ kind of thing with running time trials for every stage consecutively. There's also the question of digital vs disk to see if one or the other loads faster...

I think I eventually want to run an any% all stages as my main category for the game (I love trying to get all the KONG letters, plus dashing through the K stages should be epic), but any% is as good a place as any to start.

One more side note, what is everyone playing on? I'm using the gamepad for now, but I'm debating getting a Wii U pro controller for the battery life, and the smaller amount of weight should be better on the wrists too... but I don't want to spend the 50 dollars. Any thoughts?
I am using the gamepad for now because of the Off-TV play and there's no input lag.  I'd imagine Pro Controller would be ideal, though.
Edit history:
CrypticJacknife: 2014-02-25 12:43:33 pm
CrypticJacknife: 2014-02-25 11:55:52 am
Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!
1-3 Canopy Chaos - 0:57.46 - Cranky

The bouncing dude...the bouncing

Also keep an eye on this dude:
Randomly uploaded a spree of all the records at the time :/ Guess that's the negative to the easy replay function

EDIT: More

2-5 Alpine Incline - 1:09.65 - Dixie
Takahashi Meijin
i can't believe that guy is just uploading records. that is so lame lol
Never really considered speedrunning DKCR as much as I wanted to because the shake-to-roll controls always managed to frustrate me, but I'm loving Tropical Freeze at the moment. I'm still slowly learning the early levels in Time Attack but they're so satisfying to play through, and I'd love to do a full any% run at some point.

CrypticJacknife, I was streaming my 1-A runs last night and was talking about how the Top 4 times were all within .10 seconds of each other, and right between me tying the #3 spot and watching the replay you came out of nowhere with that .80 second lead :P. Been trying to top that earlier this morning but I'm having no luck at the moment. Maybe later :).
Edit history:
Qgstkpnjtp: 2014-02-26 03:25:08 pm
Qgstkpnjtp: 2014-02-26 03:15:25 pm
hi friends

since I'm getting a little bored of people doing their own thing and our group as a whole not making much progress through the game, I'm wanting to start a skype (or irc if it's better for more people, but I'd personally prefer skype) group for people who are running the game (even if you're only doing ILs or glitch hunting). I'd like to get some group research going as soon as possible so that we can actually start making strats rather than just copying whatever happens to be the world record at the time, mistakes and all (see everything past 4-5)

so I guess either pm me your skype IDs or make an irc channel depending on your preference? shrug

I've recorded all the current world records and I'll be uploading them to youtube (unlisted of course) and probably also the ftp on my site, but the latter will be kept as private as possible (i.e. skype/irc only) so that I don't piss off my host. idea being that we can use them to pick through everything frame by frame rather than having to go back and forth between replays and the game. I've also recorded some good other kong strats (like spike's 2-1 CK) for any% routing use.

in terms of things I want to research, right now I'm interested in three things (in no particular order):
- minecart speed conservation (when to jump, when not to etc)
- cranky pogo momentum (moving platforms affect it; what else does?)
- loading triggers (what starts any given enemy and stage cycle; see 2-3)

once we know these three things we can start planning strats rather than using trial and error, which should speed things up considerably

also, the sum of my recordings through the any% route (i.e. 3-5->3-B, 4-1->4-A->4-B->4-5, 5-B instead of 5-5) is a little under 1 hour 24 minutes, which includes loading times at the start of the level and the end of level fanfare, while also starting all levels with dk solo and pre-selected buddy barrels (whereas any% would start most levels with a kong, thus gaining a little bit of time in each stage). furthermore, the world record runs in worlds 5 and 6 are pretty suboptimal (see world 6 where most leaderboards still have 5+ regular golds) so we can definitely expect to see another couple seconds shaved off per level. all in all, I'd say that a sub-1:30 time is completely possible for any%. if we find any kind of momentum tricks with cranky that let us go faster than rolling speed, that alone will save a ton of time.

as for the debacle over whether or not to skip the intro cutscene, I'm personally in favour of it; where we start from with a copied file (file select? world select? I'd say file select would be the best for this) would be the next thing to talk about if the majority vote for skipping it. I believe spike and a few other runners from his stream chat are also in favour of it.

looking forward to seeing the leaderboards crammed with SDA names. I'll be learning any% as soon as I've finished uploading these videos. til then, I'll be stream monstering as usual.
Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!
I could try to get more active on the irc, but I tend to get lazy >_> Let me know if you set that up I'll jump in from time to time.

Minecart speed: Jump when going up hills, let downslopes carry you if you go beyond a particular threshold (~45 degrees? might want to check). Basic downslopes will lose you speed unless you jump.
Cranky pogo: Slopes bump your position a small amount, but afaik don't lose you speed (unless it's a moving platform)
Loading triggers: Yeah this will require a lot of research

Skipping intro: Creating race file status for a 2.5 minute intro would show laughable impatience in our community. Respect the RTA, should not be skipped.

MajorasMask9: I did see your name there new when I checked ^^ Yeah the time save was kind of a no-brainer, REALLY surprised no one else caught onto it quicker.

Also more
3-B Bramble Scramble - 0:48.60 - Cranky
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
The subject on whether or not to skip the opening cutscene was brought up today in my chat due to twig stating the Super Metroid community does a similar thing to not have to watch their 3 minute intro cutscene as well every time they made a small mistake.  Basically showing that it is a community decided thing, and not a universal speed running thing.

Now I'm someone who has run games with long intros before. KH 1.5 Starts with a 3+ Minute opening cinematic every run, and I've never really complained about it. The reason why I think we should consider skipping it is to try and improve the overall quality of our runs. When I reset in Kingdom Hearts, I am likely at least 20 minutes into the run, and the run is so long, that in the grand scheme of things, a 3 minute intro is really just a good break you have to sit through.

In a platformer though, I might watch the opening 3 minutes, then make one silly mistake and my options are to either watch the cutscene again(Takes more like 5 minutes to get back to action since you have to exit out of the level, the game, and the start a new file, which takes forever with these load times), or just say "Screw it" and go on with the mistake. So that would be the same as if you had to quit out of the level and restart it up every time you wanted to restart an IL. Patience is part of it yes, but it already is, and just naturally, that eats into our time to make great runs.

Again, I understand that other communities do this, and most stick to going from clean files, but after hearing others say their communities do this, I feel it's at least worth the discussion. To note, I'm going to keep skipping it for the purpose of my practice to save sanity and make progress faster.
Edit history:
Qgstkpnjtp: 2014-02-26 07:11:45 pm
Quote from CrypticJacknife:
Skipping intro: Creating race file status for a 2.5 minute intro would show laughable impatience in our community. Respect the RTA, should not be skipped.

impatience is kind of the point of speedrunning though, really. I'm just not sure how "respecting the RTA" outweighs the greatly increased chance for an amazing run, especially since "respecting the RTA" means respecting inconsistent load times that will eventually start to play a role in determining how good a run ends up being. that's not to say we should cut load times out entirely (because this isn't a PC game), of course.

if necessary we can always time exactly how much the disadvantage is between blank file and premade and add that onto the run timer, but in the end we're doing this for fun just as much as we're doing it for speed, and spending half our play time watching a cutscene does not sound like fun to me.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
I don't see a reason why we wouldn't time our load screens when comparing times. Just because it's not a PC game? Their still inconsistent.
I suppose it depends upon how much inconsistency there is. If it's into the seconds for any given level, then there'd definitely be cause for comparison.

another topic for research, I suppose
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
When I timed it, it ranged up to 3 seconds for different load times.
Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!
I've heard all the reasons before. Go majority vote if you want. Just stating my view as was asked. For sure the intro is easy enough to time to compare regardless.
Loading times...we will work that out I guess. Still not clear on exactly what makes it struggle more to start a level/go to map. Most likely just console fatigue but I don't know exactly :/ Indeed research necessary
Quote from spikevegeta:
When I timed it, it ranged up to 3 seconds for different load times.


Quote from CrypticJacknife:
I've heard all the reasons before. Go majority vote if you want. Just stating my view as was asked.

by all means. if there's no clear majority either way, timing the intro is definitely a good compromise that ought to keep both parties happy

Quote from CrypticJacknife:
Loading times...we will work that out I guess. Still not clear on exactly what makes it struggle more to start a level/go to map. Most likely just console fatigue but I don't know exactly :/ Indeed research necessary

this does seem to be one of the major factors; could even be something disc drive related. it wouldn't be the first game to be affected by console fatigue lol
Not every game includes intro in pure RTA runs. Super Metroid is probably the biggest example of which and from first hand experience I would say the runs themselves would not be nearly as optimized because no one wants to watch a similarly long 2:16 intro every single time. That's just me though, but if I were in the shoes of the runner (who knows, wii u purchase is tempting) I wouldn't want to watch donkey and his banana cake every time
Worst comes to worst, if two people have similar times, we can retime levels only, similar to how something like classic Sonic would be timed if there weren't an in game timer.

On the intro, I do feel that the runs will be better if we skip the intro... but the musics good enough where I don't mind it either way. I'll go with the community there. I don't mind taking 2 minutes every now and then to take a breather, so adding the difference seems to be the best compromise imho. The game's hard enough where I can see mistakes being made early, so yeah.

On Cranky; the game physics seem to separate left right and up down momentum, which is interesting to say the least. It'd explain why Cranky gets extra height but less speed on inclines.

Anyway, I 100%ed the game, and picked up a Pro controller (my wrists got tired on the gamepad, I've even been icing them nightly...).. so I guess IL time attacks and single segment learning/routing comes next for me.
Here's something I prepared earlier:

this (very bare-bones) page contains links to videos of all the world records as of this morning (so miles's times aren't updated yet, for example) as well as some alternate strats for the purposes of any%.

naturally there will be differences between these runs and whatever we end up using in the any% route, but they're a good place to start learning the game from.

I'd recommend using a youtube downloader and grabbing the video of whatever stage you're learning so you can frame by frame it more easily.

I'll probably update this either every morning or every evening depending on demand and volume. if necessary I can give ftp access to a few people (greenalink for example since he seems to be uploading a number of records on request) to update the html file if I'm otherwise unavailable.

skype group seems to be going ahead; please PM me your skype details if you are planning on doing anything speedrun-related in dkctf and want to be added to the chat.

and now to work on learning any% heh
the shiny on 2-2 is going to make people go crazy.