Differences in Gaming Music by console: A discussion.

Tiberius

Edit history:

Tiberius: 2013-04-20 08:25:32 am

2013-04-20 08:23:55 am

Make it so.

Afternoon all.

I was having a chat with some friends the other night and we ended up talking about vg music, as you do. We had quite an interesting debate on the pros and cons of each system/soundchip with regards to the soundtracks and I'd like to hear the opinions of SDA on this too. So:

Which console do you best like the sounds for in each generation? And which do you like least?

What soundtracks do you believe best make use of the capabilities of that system, and again which do you think fall a bit short?

We very briefly touched on this when I was on SGL the other week with regards to 16-bit systems and Mike Uyama said that he believes the high points of the Genesis library are better than the high points of the SNES library, but equally the low points are much lower. I personally also think this is true. We also agreed that RPG esq 'epic' orchestral soundtracks work much better on the SNES in general.

To give you an example of what I mean, I personally think that the MegaMan X series has great music. The tunes themselves are catchy, they're full of energy and well orchestrated. The problem is that through the SNES synths, they sound pretty damn awful in my opinion. Here are two videos, the first being the original SNES MMX3 intro stage music, the second being a remake of that same music on the Genesis soundchip, I would personally say that the second is miles better but I would love to hear your opinion!

SNES:

Genesis:

Thread title:

Afternoon all.

I was having a chat with some friends the other night and we ended up talking about vg music, as you do. We had quite an interesting debate on the pros and cons of each system/soundchip with regards to the soundtracks and I'd like to hear the opinions of SDA on this too. So:

Which console do you best like the sounds for in each generation? And which do you like least?

What soundtracks do you believe best make use of the capabilities of that system, and again which do you think fall a bit short?

We very briefly touched on this when I was on SGL the other week with regards to 16-bit systems and Mike Uyama said that he believes the high points of the Genesis library are better than the high points of the SNES library, but equally the low points are much lower. I personally also think this is true. We also agreed that RPG esq 'epic' orchestral soundtracks work much better on the SNES in general.

To give you an example of what I mean, I personally think that the MegaMan X series has great music. The tunes themselves are catchy, they're full of energy and well orchestrated. The problem is that through the SNES synths, they sound pretty damn awful in my opinion. Here are two videos, the first being the original SNES MMX3 intro stage music, the second being a remake of that same music on the Genesis soundchip, I would personally say that the second is miles better but I would love to hear your opinion!

SNES: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ukxh9Ra5oQ[/url]

Genesis: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUwg-n1GgOo[/url]

nate

2013-04-20 08:37:59 am

first problem i see here is that x3's arrangement sucks. pretty much universal agreement that it's inferior to x's or x2's. "i actually like x3's music" was the joke someone once introduced themselves on the tph forum with.

for a long time i thought that x3's music *in general* was inferior, but then i heard the psx version, which is pretty good. so yeah, just very bad example of the snes instruments in action.

anyway, i'm sure no one here thinks that such a comparison could be fair in the first place. but this particular comparison has its own concrete problems on top of the theoretical ones.

btw, i'm an enormous fan of some of the music that was done on the genesis. everyone reading this should listen to gunstar heroes and ecco 2 if they haven't already.

Tiberius

2013-04-20 08:44:57 am

Make it so.

In terms of relating it to the rest of the X series, this video was linked to me which is why I chose it for a comparison, not because I wanted to specifically focus on X3. I think that X and X2 suffer the same problem myself, I don't think it's the arrangement that's the problem, just the synths used, although that could well be what you mean by arrangement in this case...

The comparison itself was intended to spark discussion rather than being any sort of concrete example, from listening to these I'm pretty sure that the Genesis version has been enhanced slightly in some ways anyway so no, the comparison is not 'fair' yet it's simply made to demonstrate the base level of a point.

The same can happen the other way round too of course, case in point being the TNMT 4 ost which is widely regarded as being pretty awful on the genesis even when the same tunes are used.

But yeah, the discussion was meant to be more about personal opinions on soundtracks of different consoles so sorry if it kinda came across the wrong way in the original post.

P.S. Haven't listened to the Gunstar Heroes soundtrack in far too long, definitely going to waste my afternoon on that now, i hope you're happy Tongue

In terms of relating it to the rest of the X series, this video was linked to me which is why I chose it for a comparison, not because I wanted to specifically focus on X3. I think that X and X2 suffer the same problem myself, I don't think it's the arrangement that's the problem, just the synths used, although that could well be what you mean by arrangement in this case...

The comparison itself was intended to spark discussion rather than being any sort of concrete example, from listening to these I'm pretty sure that the Genesis version has been enhanced slightly in some ways anyway so no, the comparison is not 'fair' yet it's simply made to demonstrate the base level of a point.

The same can happen the other way round too of course, case in point being the TNMT 4 ost which is widely regarded as being pretty awful on the genesis even when the same tunes are used.

But yeah, the discussion was meant to be more about personal opinions on soundtracks of different consoles so sorry if it kinda came across the wrong way in the original post.

P.S. Haven't listened to the Gunstar Heroes soundtrack in far too long, definitely going to waste my afternoon on that now, i hope you're happy :P

AuraofConfusion

Edit history:

AuraofConfusion: 2013-04-20 09:12:13 am

2013-04-20 09:11:25 am

The Rest Will Flow

My favorite SNES music has always been from SMRPG, I think that and Earthbound made immense use of the soundchip (though that's a pretty universal agreement). I wish I could say I knew a lot more about Genesis music; all I know of it is that it had a lot of bad critical reception for it's generally bad games' music.

Lag.Com

Edit history:

Lag.Com: 2013-04-23 01:49:03 am

Lag.Com: 2013-04-23 01:48:30 am

Lag.Com: 2013-04-23 01:37:31 am

Lag.Com: 2013-04-23 01:37:26 am

Lag.Com: 2013-04-23 01:36:51 am

2013-04-23 01:30:29 am

sda loyalist

I've been a game music aficionado for a long time; I'm not sure how I'd categorise my favourite soundtracks/tracks. I guess the main thing for me is complexity and layering. I hate hearing tracks with twelve bar blues chords, four to the floor beat... anything that relies too heavily on already-established non-game music conventions. Here's some examples through the ages of VG music that deserve to be considered in their own right.

Solstice - Walkin' 1990, NES
Great example of tense, but still melodic music.

Shining Force II - Promoted Attack 1993, MD
Chaotic and brash arrangement with many disparate threads weaved into one.

Klonoa 2 - Hyuponia ~ Ruin of Sadness 2001, PS2
Somber.

Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance - Aqueduct of Dragons 2002, GBA
The archetypal 'everything is messy' soundtrack! Bizarre drumming under a strange chord sequence.

The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind - Main Theme 2002, PC
I prefer this arrangement to the self-important Oblivion and Skyrim versions. It has much more emotion for me.

Ar tonelico - EXEC_PHANTASMAGORIA/. 2006, PS2
I'm not a big fan of voices in VG music, but the Ar tonelico soundtracks are an important exception. Here voices are used like an instrument, instead of just for writing words over music.

To talk about some of the points in the original post, I'm very underwhelmed with SNES music in general. There are a number of strikingly good soundtracks, such as Super Metroid and Earthbound, for sure. Focusing on the 'epic orchestral RPG' thing a little, I find these tedious. Many tracks are practically copy-pasted out of other games with different leads. I'm particularly sick of hearing the same boring string sample used on every single one of these games. The Genesis/MD uses a different method of synthesis for its music which allows for far greater creativity at the cost of a higher bar of entry. I think this could explain or at least back up the idea of Genesis music having higher peaks and lower nadirs.

I've also heard a lot of discussion about brilliant technical achievements in VG music. Jurassic Park has a lot of sample bank swapping and all that fun stuff. Shame the music itself is super generic Tongue

Although I played it a year or so too late for this effect, I know a lot of people were surprised by the sudden introduction of ESTUANS INTERIUS while fighting Sephiroth in Final Fantasy VII. I was also very interested to hear that Metroid Prime's music was designed on purpose to fit into a very small storage size, which is why it re-uses many samples. Of course, in this era of streamed music and massive storage sizes, this kind of thing has died out. I'm semi-concerned; it plays into a viewpoint I have about programmers being worse at their art than they used to be.

I've been a game music aficionado for a long time; I'm not sure how I'd categorise my favourite soundtracks/tracks. I guess the main thing for me is complexity and layering. I hate hearing tracks with twelve bar blues chords, four to the floor beat... anything that relies too heavily on already-established non-game music conventions. Here's some examples through the ages of VG music that deserve to be considered in their own right.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3YrrUtQ7-g]Solstice - Walkin'[/url] 1990, NES
Great example of tense, but still melodic music.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iEd6Y1JBjM]Shining Force II - Promoted Attack[/url] 1993, MD
Chaotic and brash arrangement with many disparate threads weaved into one.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfGRZPbkdUY]Klonoa 2 - Hyuponia ~ Ruin of Sadness[/url] 2001, PS2
Somber.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_O7aBWbmyo]Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance - Aqueduct of Dragons[/url] 2002, GBA
The archetypal 'everything is messy' soundtrack! Bizarre drumming under a strange chord sequence.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWuNf4gxwuM]The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind - Main Theme[/url] 2002, PC
I prefer this arrangement to the self-important Oblivion and Skyrim versions. It has much more emotion for me.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWKSfdo9DT8]Ar tonelico - EXEC_PHANTASMAGORIA/.[/url] 2006, PS2
I'm not a big fan of voices in VG music, but the Ar tonelico soundtracks are an important exception. Here voices are used like an instrument, instead of just for writing words over music.

To talk about some of the points in the original post, I'm very underwhelmed with SNES music in general. There are a number of strikingly good soundtracks, such as Super Metroid and Earthbound, for sure. Focusing on the 'epic orchestral RPG' thing a little, I find these tedious. Many tracks are practically copy-pasted out of other games with different leads. I'm particularly sick of hearing the same boring string sample used on every single one of these games. The Genesis/MD uses a different method of synthesis for its music which allows for far greater creativity at the cost of a higher bar of entry. I think this could explain or at least back up the idea of Genesis music having higher peaks and lower nadirs.

I've also heard a lot of discussion about brilliant technical achievements in VG music. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1EGNaPTACc]Jurassic Park[/url] has a lot of sample bank swapping and all that fun stuff. Shame the music itself is super generic :P Although I played it a year or so too late for this effect, I know a lot of people were surprised by the sudden introduction of ESTUANS INTERIUS while fighting Sephiroth in Final Fantasy VII. I was also very interested to hear that Metroid Prime's music was designed on purpose to fit into a very small storage size, which is why it re-uses many samples. Of course, in this era of streamed music and massive storage sizes, this kind of thing has died out. I'm semi-concerned; it plays into a viewpoint I have about programmers being worse at their art than they used to be.

Egg McMuffin

2013-04-23 06:19:25 am

I've noticed a difference in VG music in games that originally were released on the SNES but are also ported to the GBA. Prime examples include Donkey Kong Country 1-3.

zewing

2013-04-23 07:49:04 am

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

hmm I actually enjoy Mega Man X3's sound track (SNES). so hate on me all u want.

In terms of music I'd imagine the SNES has some damn good music. Especiall Final Fantasy VI (and most rpg's in general) and Castlevania (though let's be honest Konami loves to recycle EVERYTHING about Castlevania)

In terms of best console music NES is like amazing with this. Simple and effective. Like just listen to Mega Man OST's

I mean this system was so simple and the OST's from NES are just astounding even to this day. Though this is more of a preference since I play a ton of Nintendo

I can't really answer questoin in regards to least effective since I haven't played all the consoles

Egg McMuffin

Edit history:

Egg McMuffin: 2013-04-23 12:03:25 pm

Egg McMuffin: 2013-04-23 12:03:06 pm

2013-04-23 12:01:57 pm

I like the Storm Eagle theme from Mega Man X. I also like the intro music for each stage (where it shows the name of the level you enter).