Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

2005-05-23 02:27:03 am

Now, I was talking about this in another topic, and got a little too off topic. So, I decided to make a topic in the right section. What are the rules and requirments for a Diablo II: Lord of Destruction run? Obviously, you cannot use Maphack or the /players # trick, so that makes it way harder. There is a topic awhile back, but it's so old if I bump it dust will come off.

Anyways, the requirments. I guess your suppose to beat it, on Normal difficulty, beating only the required quests. Or, do you have to complete all of the quests? What other rules is there to it? Is there a website or some place I could check for them?

Thread title:

Sexual_Santa

2005-05-23 03:41:14 am

doing all quests would mean 100% run and doing the necessary quests would be pure run. But this would be a long time unless you would get the items you need on the first special monsters. My friend got a SOJ on the special zombie in the first quest

Tub

2005-05-23 04:06:55 am

m00

Quote:

My friend got a SOJ on the special zombie in the first quest

If it weren't for the fact that the first special zombie (called Corpsefire) could never drop SoJ in Lord of Destruction, I'd really believe you.

I don't mean to be destructive, but due to the huuuuuuuge amount of randomness I consider diablo2-runs not only to be extremely boring, but also to be extremely pointless. A good time takes more luck with drops and pathfinding than skill (ever spent 3 hours in the jungle trying to find your way?)
I'd also be difficult to track, as every patch and game mode has different monsters and difficulties and can't be compared. There is no obvious "standard setting" for runs.

Oh, and beating Baal on normal skill untwinked might take longer than 7 hours. It's difficult to find a good estimate, but it does take longer on my regular playthroughs, and you can't really speed up leveling. Oh, and I usually skip khalims flail (I hate the sewers), which you can't.

Blublu

2005-05-23 04:23:15 am

...

I'm not so sure how entertaining a run like that would be, but if it is done, it would most probably be done with the Sorceress.

I suppose the sensible rules would be: only do the neccesary quests, choose any character, no multiplayer and it would probably be allowed to use the "player #" command. (it makes the monsters as strong as they would be if # of players were in the game). But don't take MY word for it just because *I* think it makes sense...

Lucid Faia

Edit history:

Lucid Faia: 2005-05-23 04:26:34 am

2005-05-23 04:25:39 am

Yeah, I said it.

Stone Of Jordan from Corpsefire? On Normal? Not a chance.

It really does seem like a lost cause. Single player would be very random and time-consuming, especially if you're not going to set the game to /players 8. Multiplayer would be lame, since you could theoretically just have a handful of Level 90s beat the game for you in under ten minutes, especially since you can get past the Ancients Quest's level requirement with a certain bug.

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2005-05-23 07:28:07 am

2005-05-23 07:26:50 am

Jack of all Trades

A run of Diablo II would be the most random run. EVER. Items, maps, monster packs, champions, auras from uniques...monster combinations...this is all aside from the normal randomness from the standard action rpg, like damage and accuracy and all that good stuff.

For normal, I don't think a Sorc would do very well. They always start out very slow and weak; they don't blossom until they get to their 30's and beyond. I think a strong melee character would be more suitable for pure normal; maybe a sin or barb.

EDIT: My memory is fuzzy but I think the earliest an SOJ could drop would be from Diablo on normal.

Blublu

Edit history:

Blublu: 2005-05-23 08:59:17 am

2005-05-23 08:50:05 am

...

The reason I said Sorceress is because she has Static Field AND Teleport. Static Field would be leveled up a bit (8-10) which makes the range quite a lot, and it owns bosses really fast on Normal (it's less effective on nightmare/hell). Teleport allows her to zip through boring areas very quickly. The only real problem is mana, but you can buy mana potions now, so...

A Sorceress is usually really strong early and very weak later OR the opposite, because she's saving up points for the high level skills.

So I think a good Sorceress build would be something like this:

One point in Warmth. (save points until level 6)
At level 6+, alternate between Ice Blast and Static Field until Static Field is about 5-10th level (I haven't figured out the ideal number yet).
Then pump everything into Ice Blast.
At level 18, get Teleport.
Maybe one point in Frost Nova for those tight situations.

Put almost ALL stat points into Magic, since you'll be skilled enough to dodge projectiles and stay out of monsters' range.

Of course, I haven't tried this out, this is just some guessing based on my experience in the game. It might turn out that a completely different build or a different character would be much better.

The reason I said Sorceress is because she has Static Field AND Teleport. Static Field would be leveled up a bit (8-10) which makes the range quite a lot, and it owns bosses really fast on Normal (it's less effective on nightmare/hell). Teleport allows her to zip through boring areas very quickly. The only real problem is mana, but you can buy mana potions now, so...

A Sorceress is usually really strong early and very weak later OR the opposite, because she's saving up points for the high level skills.

So I think a good Sorceress build would be something like this:

One point in Warmth. (save points until level 6)
At level 6+, alternate between Ice Blast and Static Field until Static Field is about 5-10th level (I haven't figured out the ideal number yet).
Then pump everything into Ice Blast.
At level 18, get Teleport.
Maybe one point in Frost Nova for those tight situations.

Put almost ALL stat points into Magic, since you'll be skilled enough to dodge projectiles and stay out of monsters' range.

Of course, I haven't tried this out, this is just some guessing based on my experience in the game. It might turn out that a completely different build or a different character would be much better.

Gorash

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Gorash: 2005-05-23 09:00:52 am

2005-05-23 08:56:34 am

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Good luck with that build. I played a pure energy sorc through act1 and with ~50 hp (you don't get more) you are dead meat the instant anything touches you. Try a bunch of Tainted....

@Umbra, see my last comment in the other, gone off topic thread... I process forums in linear order... Wink

Blublu

2005-05-23 09:01:25 am

...

It's been a while since I played the game, but I guess you would just counter this by spending more points on vitality.

Gorash

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Gorash: 2005-05-23 09:04:36 am

2005-05-23 09:04:21 am

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The problem actually isn't lack of hp, but lack of potent blockers and the ridiculous hit recovery of a naked babe (remember, sorc starts with 10 strength, and even the most basic piece of cloth wants 12 str). Hence: You get hit once -> you're dead meat.

Blublu

2005-05-23 09:09:00 am

...

I know a sorceress dies easily, but that's not the point anyway. A super skilled player would be able to survive. And I didn't mean to totally ignore the other stats. Of course you would put something into strength and dexterity. Just enough to survive but still have enough to pump up that mana.

Gorash

2005-05-23 09:15:22 am

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Noone would do that, but I found it interesting to try.

It was more like an experiment if I was such a super skilled player... I'm not.

Still a lot of fun can be gotten from the game by experimenting with lowlevel chars beating up Andariel.

gravity

2005-05-23 10:31:59 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I think a better style of run would be using maphack and a level 99 character in Normal.

Hyper_vibe

2005-05-23 11:18:25 am

HL2 Aftermath can't wait

There wouldn't be any point to a run of D2 using a lvl 99 char or maphack because you pretty much then just warp through the lvls so quikly without skill or luck 8)

I think doing a pure speed run would be way better

Ekarderif

2005-05-23 04:54:48 pm

Your almighty lordship

Grabbing a +3 Energy Shield staff wouldn't be TOO hard (considering the other things that must be done) and that's more than enough to backup your life.

Gorash

2005-05-23 05:44:12 pm

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Energy shield like the lv18 spell?

What do you do before that? Tongue

Umbra

Edit history:

Umbra: 2005-05-23 05:47:39 pm

2005-05-23 05:44:45 pm

I would not use a Sorceress. You get Teleport at level 24, and when I beat Normal for the first time I was level 32. For a speedrun, you should get around level 27. Therefore, getting your Teleport level to 5 (+ skill items added) It still takes a lot of mana at that level, and your FCR is probably low so you will teleport slow. Also, you cannot recive a SOJ until you kill Diablo or normal, Mephisto on Nightmare, and Andreal on Hell.

I would choice the Pally. Simply because he has helpful aura's, and he has Zeal, which will help a lot. Pallys are the best characters early on.

Quote:

A run of Diablo II would be the most random run. EVER. Items, maps, monster packs, champions, auras from uniques...monster combinations...this is all aside from the normal randomness from the standard action rpg, like damage and accuracy and all that good stuff

Random runs are a lot better then non-random runs in my opinion. That way, people can actually have a chance of beating it, and most of your skill is based on luck. That way, you don't have to master the game.

I would not use a Sorceress. You get Teleport at level 24, and when I beat Normal for the first time I was level 32. For a speedrun, you should get around level 27. Therefore, getting your Teleport level to 5 (+ skill items added) It still takes a lot of mana at that level, and your FCR is probably low so you will teleport slow. Also, you cannot recive a SOJ until you kill Diablo or normal, Mephisto on Nightmare, and Andreal on Hell.

I would choice the Pally. Simply because he has helpful aura's, and he has Zeal, which will help a lot. Pallys are the best characters early on.

[quote]A run of Diablo II would be the most random run. EVER. Items, maps, monster packs, champions, auras from uniques...monster combinations...this is all aside from the normal randomness from the standard action rpg, like damage and accuracy and all that good stuff[/quote]

Random runs are a lot better then non-random runs in my opinion. That way, people can actually have a chance of beating it, and most of your skill is based on luck. That way, you don't have to master the game.

Gorash

2005-05-23 06:00:52 pm

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

Quote:

That way, you don't have to master the game.

I find this hardly an excuse... If you have to play a game a zillion times to get it right by chance you will get skill anyway (exceptions involving stupid players not covered).

Well, we were pretty lucky in our 22'28" 3pl act1, but you should at least know what you're doing...

marshmallow

2005-05-23 06:03:07 pm

Jack of all Trades

Quote:

It still takes a lot of mana at that level, and your FCR is probably low so you will teleport slow. Also, you cannot recive a SOJ until you kill Diablo or normal, Mephisto on Nightmare, and Andreal on Hell.

I see your took care of what I was going to say about relying on teleport in normal without any gear or gold.

Also, I'm not so sure on your SOJ statement...the earliest is Diablo normal. As long as the monster meets the required level requirements otherwise (29 irrc) and TC then he can drop it.

Of course, talking about getting an SOJ to drop during a speedrun is pretty ridiculous. After playing for a good 2 or 3 years, both casually and dedicated, I've only had like 3 drop.

Umbra

2005-05-23 06:03:59 pm

Quote:

I find this hardly an excuse... If you have to play a game a zillion times to get it right by chance you will get skill anyway (exceptions involving stupid players not covered).

Well, we were pretty lucky in our 22'28" 3pl act1, but you should at least know what you're doing...

Yeah, what I ment by "Master the Game" is master where you're going. And, since they game makes most of the maps random, you will just have to base it on luck. Some maps are not random, though. (River of Flame)

marshmallow

2005-05-23 06:10:25 pm

Jack of all Trades

Other maps give you cues -- like in all the A1 fields, you just follow the path, of course. Sometimes it might lead you all over the place when you could have shaved off a lot of time by going diagonally or whatever, but at least you know where to go.

Then there are maps where you know the destination has to be oriented in a certain way. For example, in Maggot Lair 3 you know the maggot queen has you going through a tunnel from SW to NE.

But then others could be huge wastses of time -- like the sewers in A3. Mephisto's place. The Sanctuary -- with my kind of luck, I'd go through 2 or 3 dead ends before finding the right one. Then the correct tomb...

Or the Jungle. Just the jungle is scary enough. It could take either 2 minutes or 2 hours. Cheesy

Ekarderif

2005-05-23 06:20:56 pm

Your almighty lordship

Energy Shield is level 24. I never had death problems while making my Energy Shield sorceress unil Diablo. It's not that hard to avoid death, especially with a level 10 static field and any skill to back it up (probably lightning/chain lightning as they are requirements already).

Teleport is level 18. This should be up to 10 at the end. With probably 300+ mana, warmth, and mana potions, there would be no reason not to use this.

marshmallow

2005-05-23 06:22:19 pm

Jack of all Trades

How about you try it out then? Just start from scratch on normal and see how it goes.

Tub

Edit history:

Tub: 2005-05-23 06:39:43 pm

2005-05-23 06:23:44 pm

m00

Quote:

I would choice the Pally. Simply because he has helpful aura's, and he has Zeal, which will help a lot. Pallys are the best characters early on.

physical characters tend to miss a lot when their level is low. Mage characters don't have that penalties and can try to kill bosses without much leveling. A zeal-pala or dual-wield barb sure is fast early on (if you find some decent weapons), but will have a hard time in a3 and later unless you waste time on leveling or have lots of luck with item drops.
I'd prefer an assassin for the run-speed alone. That should make up for not having static on bosses. Diablo / Ancients / Baal will be difficult anyway, but an Assassin can actually invest the dex for maxblock and gets 3 life per vita instead of 2 like the sorc.
Maybe a combo of TigerStrike (early) and one of the lesser used traps (CBS, WoF or FB maybe?) against the later bosses.

Quote:

Random runs are a lot better then non-random runs in my opinion. That way, people can actually have a chance of beating it, and most of your skill is based on luck. That way, you don't have to master the game.

Anyone else waiting for a speedrun in lottery winning? Tongue

Quote:

But then others could be huge wastses of time -- like [...]Mephisto's place. [...] Then the correct tomb...

In Mephisto's place, just keep left. always.
For the correct tomb in a2, have you ever checked your quest log after killing the summoner? The position of the symbols in the Canyon of the Magi is always the same. Finding the correct tomb is easy, finding duriel inside the tomb is a different issue ..

Quote:

I think a better style of run would be using maphack and a level 99 character in Normal.

using maphack makes your penis smaller. It's a cheat/hack that violates blizzards Terms of Use and shouldn't be used in speedruns. In fact, it shouldn't be used at all.

Quote:

Grabbing a +3 Energy Shield staff wouldn't be TOO hard (considering the other things that must be done) and that's more than enough to backup your life.

Except for the nasty enemys with elemental damage that tend to drain more mana than save life. Elemental damage is the worst kind of damage in 1.10, and ES won't save you from that. It'll just drain your mana so you can't teleport away.

[quote]I would choice the Pally. Simply because he has helpful aura's, and he has Zeal, which will help a lot. Pallys are the best characters early on. [/quote]
physical characters tend to miss a lot when their level is low. Mage characters don't have that penalties and can try to kill bosses without much leveling. A zeal-pala or dual-wield barb sure is fast early on (if you find some decent weapons), but will have a hard time in a3 and later unless you waste time on leveling or have lots of luck with item drops.
I'd prefer an assassin for the run-speed alone. That should make up for not having static on bosses. Diablo / Ancients / Baal will be difficult anyway, but an Assassin can actually invest the dex for maxblock and gets 3 life per vita instead of 2 like the sorc.
Maybe a combo of TigerStrike (early) and one of the lesser used traps (CBS, WoF or FB maybe?) against the later bosses.

[quote]Random runs are a lot better then non-random runs in my opinion. That way, people can actually have a chance of beating it, and most of your skill is based on luck. That way, you don't have to master the game.[/quote]
Anyone else waiting for a speedrun in lottery winning? :P

[quote]But then others could be huge wastses of time -- like [...]Mephisto's place. [...] Then the correct tomb...[/quote]
In Mephisto's place, just keep left. always.
For the correct tomb in a2, have you ever checked your quest log after killing the summoner? The position of the symbols in the Canyon of the Magi is always the same. Finding the correct tomb is easy, finding duriel inside the tomb is a different issue ..

[quote]I think a better style of run would be using maphack and a level 99 character in Normal.[/quote]
using maphack makes your penis smaller. It's a cheat/hack that violates blizzards Terms of Use and shouldn't be used in speedruns. In fact, it shouldn't be used at all.

[quote]Grabbing a +3 Energy Shield staff wouldn't be TOO hard (considering the other things that must be done) and that's more than enough to backup your life.[/quote]
Except for the nasty enemys with elemental damage that tend to drain more mana than save life. Elemental damage is the worst kind of damage in 1.10, and ES won't save you from that. It'll just drain your mana so you can't teleport away.

Ekarderif

Edit history:

Ekarderif: 2005-05-23 06:27:59 pm

2005-05-23 06:27:33 pm

Your almighty lordship

Nobody said you can't dodge them. Besides, nothing will save you against them anyways (Energy Shield or not). If it kills your mana, chances are it killed you without it up anyways.