Diablo 2/IILod : many Questions on SpeedRunning it

Edit history:

SandsZebra: 2007-09-14 10:20:41 pm

2007-09-13 03:30:45 pm

Hello :hello: I'm a new member of SDA :angel: and I read all the subjects about LoD, it gave me some ideas for making speedruns (maybe I'll do one for every char there isn't why not :)) so I have questions to ask before I begin (specially about rules - now and how they can changes :idea: ) I'll enumerate them below, and if you can answer always try, I like to hear everyone :

Now that I see my questions are big, I'll summarize here what is the main question in them :

1/First) Is it ok to go on open bnet to manipulate the map and make the speedrun faster ?
2/Second) I have Cain near Qual-Kehk because of PlugY, will my run be unpublishable ?
3/Third) How to use CamStudio (what codec for best playing speed/Good Quality ratio) ? Why have I my Video all darkened if I try FullScreen ?
4/Fourth) Would it be ok to have a few specific EQ for Pala/Barb speedruns at the start of the run ?
5/Fifth) About SS runs, Could it be ok to just have all-map revealed to not get lost ?

1/First) Since this game is aleatory in many things, and that doesn't really fit the usual idea of a speedrun, have we the right to do some map manipulation by going to open bnet if the map isn't good at a certain part ?

2/Second) I have a little problem because of PlugY I installed once (uninstalled now) it's in act 5, Cain is near Qual-Kehk instead of being right next to the stash and waypoint (or warp as I like to call it). Does it would make my speedrun unpublishable ?

3/Third) I have a few problems about recording my run, I use CamStudio (the only free screen recorder I know :P) but I don't know what codec can give the best performance of play speed/good Quality, and I'm not sure if recording the sound with CamStudio does slow the recording or not. Plus when I try to record in FullScreen it works but give me a big black screen Huh?

instead of images moving, so I'm obligate to do the run in windowed mode. Would be easier to do the run in FullScreen so I hope there's a way for not having a black screen (well in fact I just have a very darkened screen, so we can see it recorded but nothing is seeing-able).

4/Fourth) I find (and thought too :idea: ) that a Paladin/Barbarian speedrun really isn't interesting :shorty: as well for the player than for the watcher without being able to get some equipment to make the run doable, and with the very little chances of dropping any unique in normal and with 0% mf, we should have the right to put some specific equipment in our inventory at the beginning of the run. Is it possible Huh?

5/Fifth) More of an idea here, about a Single-Segment run, instead of having to retain all the map (or write down directions and check them) could we have all-map revealed ? I mean only the map and no other info, so that at least we can't get lost (and bore the spectator with that ^^). Maybe at least in SS it would be possible to authorize having specific EQ at the beginning of the run.

I'm sorry to say all that, because I know all those questions put in question the SDA rules ;), but I really feel that we have to adapt some of the rules especially for this game since he is so aleatory, and it's not that fair because luck can help you more than skill sometimes. Well, if you have anything to say about any question just go ahead, and if mikwuyma (good spelling?) could tell me what is changeable in the SDA rules (again sorry Wink

I find the rules quite good but this game needs some changes about them imo) I would appreciate it.

Thread title:

Hello :hello: I'm a new member of SDA :angel: and I read all the subjects about LoD, it gave me some ideas for making speedruns (maybe I'll do one for every char there isn't why not :)) so I have questions to ask before I begin (specially about rules - now and how they can changes :idea: ) I'll enumerate them below, and if you can answer always try, I like to hear everyone :

Now that I see my questions are big, I'll summarize here what is the main question in them :

1/First) Is it ok to go on open bnet to manipulate the map and make the speedrun faster ?
2/Second) I have Cain near Qual-Kehk because of PlugY, will my run be unpublishable ?
3/Third) How to use CamStudio (what codec for best playing speed/Good Quality ratio) ? Why have I my Video all darkened if I try FullScreen ?
4/Fourth) Would it be ok to have a few specific EQ for Pala/Barb speedruns at the start of the run ?
5/Fifth) About SS runs, Could it be ok to just have all-map revealed to not get lost ?

1/First) Since this game is aleatory in many things, and that doesn't really fit the usual idea of a speedrun, have we the right to do some map manipulation by going to open bnet if the map isn't good at a certain part ?

2/Second) I have a little problem because of PlugY I installed once (uninstalled now) it's in act 5, Cain is near Qual-Kehk instead of being right next to the stash and waypoint (or warp as I like to call it). Does it would make my speedrun unpublishable ?

3/Third) I have a few problems about recording my run, I use CamStudio (the only free screen recorder I know :P) but I don't know what codec can give the best performance of play speed/good Quality, and I'm not sure if recording the sound with CamStudio does slow the recording or not. Plus when I try to record in FullScreen it works but give me a big black screen ??? instead of images moving, so I'm obligate to do the run in windowed mode. Would be easier to do the run in FullScreen so I hope there's a way for not having a black screen (well in fact I just have a very darkened screen, so we can see it recorded but nothing is seeing-able).

4/Fourth) I find (and thought too :idea: ) that a Paladin/Barbarian speedrun really isn't interesting :shorty: as well for the player than for the watcher without being able to get some equipment to make the run doable, and with the very little chances of dropping any unique in normal and with 0% mf, we should have the right to put some specific equipment in our inventory at the beginning of the run. Is it possible ???

5/Fifth) More of an idea here, about a Single-Segment run, instead of having to retain all the map (or write down directions and check them) could we have all-map revealed ? I mean only the map and no other info, so that at least we can't get lost (and bore the spectator with that ^^). Maybe at least in SS it would be possible to authorize having specific EQ at the beginning of the run.

I'm sorry to say all that, because I know all those questions put in question the SDA rules ;), but I really feel that we have to adapt some of the rules especially for this game since he is so aleatory, and it's not that fair because luck can help you more than skill sometimes. Well, if you have anything to say about any question just go ahead, and if mikwuyma (good spelling?) could tell me what is changeable in the SDA rules (again sorry ;) I find the rules quite good but this game needs some changes about them imo) I would appreciate it.

Stupid

2007-09-13 03:44:42 pm

defying gravity

1: I think you have to run it so it looks like "it would have been possible to do the whole ting in one session". However, I find the whole checking out map before starting pointless anyways.
2: Yes
4: No
5: No

SandsZebra

Edit history:

SandsZebra: 2007-09-13 07:41:21 pm

2007-09-13 03:53:45 pm

So how do I remove that problem with Cain ? I uninstalled all PlugY and also reinstalled my game but it doesn't work. It must be somewhere in the registry Huh?

Siyko

2007-09-13 05:59:11 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

patch the game - he was over there in the origional version. That info is in the gamedata, not the registry

SandsZebra

2007-09-13 07:44:57 pm

Quote:

patch the game - he was over there in the original version. That info is in the gamedata, not the registry

Well you'll have to tell me what data I must change, because whatever I do like re-patching/re-installing doesn't work sorry. Please help me anyone, it's a simple problem but can get my run impossible to publish Sad

Zurreco

2007-09-13 08:34:39 pm

Just call me the cynicism machine

Quote:

Well you'll have to tell me what data I must change, because whatever I do like re-patching/re-installing doesn't work sorry. Please help me anyone, it's a simple problem but can get my run impossible to publish Sad

Format your hard drive. That ought to do the trick.

Stupid

Edit history:

Stupid: 2007-09-13 09:01:16 pm

2007-09-13 09:01:09 pm

defying gravity

I dont think they never changed cains position in a patch o__O

SandsZebra

2007-09-13 09:25:59 pm

Quote:

Format your hard drive. That ought to do the trick.

Well yeah but doesn't will it erase all data ? And the problem is, I did a reset of all my computer from the moment I bought it, and I'm alarmed now because it didn't solve the problem, so I see but one solution : that someone tells me where in data is stored the place of Cain in Act5 and how I can modify it. Or that it don't prevent me from publishing my run, because this is the one and only thing changing.

TheVoid

2007-09-13 09:33:27 pm

Did you upgrade\patch the game to its latest version? I think Siyko tried to say that.

Siyko

2007-09-13 10:22:15 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

I'm positive Cain used to be way over by QK in the origonal LOD - because when I started playing on Bnet, i was like "where is cain? oh he is by the WP... what is he doing... oh that is convinient"

unless its only on Bnet that he's by the WP, but I doubt that.

SandsZebra

2007-09-13 11:16:02 pm

Quote:

I'm positive Cain used to be way over by QK in the origonal LOD - because when I started playing on Bnet, i was like "where is cain? oh he is by the WP... what is he doing... oh that is convinient"

unless its only on Bnet that he's by the WP, but I doubt that.

No that's simple in fact, I have reinstalled the game (which is v 1.07 btw) and then go on bnet, make my patch up-to-date, and I haven't any problem on internet, It's only on SP, and it may be either because of that PlugY, or because my installation Version is 1.07.

Zurreco

2007-09-13 11:35:30 pm

Just call me the cynicism machine

What is PlugY?

Lag.Com

2007-09-14 12:06:01 am

sda loyalist

plugy is a thing a lot of d2 mods use to do various things to the interface (it is a DLL addon), like change the size of the stash, save files other than in the default directory, etc. etc.

SandsZebra

Edit history:

SandsZebra: 2007-09-14 12:20:24 am

2007-09-14 12:14:27 am

Quote:

plugy is a thing a lot of d2 mods use to do various things to the interface (it is a DLL addon), like change the size of the stash, save files other than in the default directory, etc. etc.

Yeah and amongst other changes it put Cain back to where he was in the very first LoD. Anyway correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see why it would prevent me from having my run confirmed, since it's only something from a sooner patch that doesn't want to change. Here's a link if needed : http://forum.judgehype.com/judgehype/ModsetModding/plugy-activation-runiques-sujet_131_1.htm
Looks like that now it's directly compatible with 1.11 so it hasn't the replacement of Cain.

Zurreco

Edit history:

Zurreco: 2007-09-14 02:58:09 am

2007-09-14 02:56:25 am

Just call me the cynicism machine

If you're going to make a run that has Cain in that location, you'll have to ensure that you're doing the whole run on a version that has it like that. Otherwise, it is considered a modification of the game. Either replace the .dll that is modified (don't know how to do that), format your drive, or play on 1.07 and behold the suckitude (and possible rejection for using an outdated version).

Along with this, a lot of your supposed solutions to making a speedrun for this game 'easier' is also considered game modification. Battle.net shouldn't be used unless you really love 1.11 bnet Ladder only things at the cost of blind single segments, and even then you wouldn't be allowed to use map hack or items from the get go. Questions 1, 2, 4, and 5 all regard changing the game world to a non-natural state, which is forbidden.

As for question 3: use FRAPS. At the expense of huge raw captures, it rarely gives me any issues with recording.

SandsZebra

Edit history:

SandsZebra: 2007-09-14 04:17:23 am

2007-09-14 03:57:34 am

Quote:

If you're going to make a run that has Cain in that location, you'll have to ensure that you're doing the whole run on a version that has it like that. Otherwise, it is considered a modification of the game. Either replace the .dll that is modified (don't know how to do that), format your drive, or play on 1.07 and behold the suckitude (and possible rejection for using an outdated version).

Ok, I see what in the rules tell you it would be rejected, but it's a so little modification that either there's a solution to get it back, or it will be acceptable (not even seeing-able since in act5 we don't kill as we'd get no exp, that means no drop and no id needed)

Quote:

Along with this, a lot of your supposed solutions to making a speedrun for this game 'easier' is also considered game modification. Battle.net shouldn't be used unless you really love 1.11 bnet Ladder only things at the cost of blind single segments, and even then you wouldn't be allowed to use map hack or items from the get go. Questions 1, 2, 4, and 5 all regard changing the game world to a non-natural state, which is forbidden.

Of course that normally all I say is out of the rules, but don't tell me this game is not unusual ; there is really so much aleatoriness that it can become unfair because a luckier player can win over a more skill-full one, so I just ask that the luck factor is being reduced a little - only for this game - since he's so special.
For the maps manipulation, it's for the run to become very interesting because exping would be so much faster, and same for the way we must take to reach each goal. It's like the glitch of duping gold and Fireball book in the first Diablo : though it's in-game, some people see it like a cheat and some others have really been impressed and interested by seeing that trick and how short it can be to finish Diablo I.
And know why this glitch was possible in-game ? Only because it's an old one and therefore not that much put up-to-date. It's only because D2 is younger that any in-game dupe glitch has been patched.
So my point is to say : Diablo 2 would MUCH more fun to speedrun and to watch, if we re-equilibrated it expressly for speedrun. Anyway I could do a Nec speedrun (for example) without any changes in rules, so I say that more for Pally/Barb than any other class. (And I'm NOT asking allowing big cheating or big EQ of course)

Quote:

As for question 3: use FRAPS. At the expense of huge raw captures, it rarely gives me any issues with recording.

Oh I have much free space on my HD and I have nothing against FRAPS, but I'll have to pay 37$ IIRC to be able to record for more than 30 secondes Tongue

Ok I'm going to sleep now (it's late in my country) so don't worry if I'm not answering in the hour, your answer will come Smiley

[quote]If you're going to make a run that has Cain in that location, you'll have to ensure that you're doing the whole run on a version that has it like that.  Otherwise, it is considered a modification of the game.  Either replace the .dll that is modified (don't know how to do that), format your drive, or play on 1.07 and behold the suckitude (and possible rejection for using an outdated version).[/quote]

Ok, I see what in the rules tell you it would be rejected, but it's a so little modification that either there's a solution to get it back, or it will be acceptable (not even seeing-able since in act5 we don't kill as we'd get no exp, that means no drop and no id needed)

[quote]Along with this, a lot of your supposed solutions to making a speedrun for this game 'easier' is also considered game modification.  Battle.net shouldn't be used unless you really love 1.11 bnet Ladder only things at the cost of blind single segments, and even then you wouldn't be allowed to use map hack or items from the get go.  Questions 1, 2, 4, and 5 all regard changing the game world to a non-natural state, which is forbidden.[/quote]

Of course that normally all I say is out of the rules, but don't tell me this game is not unusual ; there is really so much aleatoriness that it can become unfair because a luckier player can win over a more skill-full one, so I just ask that the luck factor is being reduced a little - only for this game - since he's so special.
For the maps manipulation, it's for the run to become very interesting because exping would be so much faster, and same for the way we must take to reach each goal. It's like the glitch of duping gold and Fireball book in the first Diablo : though it's in-game, some people see it like a cheat and some others have really been impressed and interested by seeing that trick and how short it can be to finish Diablo I. 
And know why this glitch was possible in-game ? Only because it's an old one and therefore not that much put up-to-date. It's only because D2 is younger that any in-game dupe glitch has been patched.
So my point is to say : Diablo 2 would MUCH more fun to speedrun and to watch, if we re-equilibrated it expressly for speedrun. Anyway I could do a Nec speedrun (for example) without any changes in rules, so I say that more for Pally/Barb than any other class. (And I'm NOT asking allowing big cheating or big EQ of course)

[quote]As for question 3: use FRAPS.  At the expense of huge raw captures, it rarely gives me any issues with recording.[/quote]

Oh I have much free space on my HD and I have nothing against FRAPS, but I'll have to pay 37$ IIRC to be able to record for more than 30 secondes :P

Ok I'm going to sleep now (it's late in my country) so don't worry if I'm not answering in the hour, your answer will come :)

Zurreco

2007-09-14 11:49:37 am

Just call me the cynicism machine

Quote:

Ok, I see what in the rules tell you it would be rejected, but it's a so little modification that either there's a solution to get it back, or it will be acceptable

I'd say that rules are rules, but I'm not the administrator. I would suggest you PM Radix or someone of power if this is really an issue to you, but I'm pretty sure they'll tell you not to run the game even if the modifications are essentially harmless.

Quote:

there is really so much aleatoriness (what?) that it can become unfair because a luckier player can win over a more skill-full one, so I just ask that the luck factor is being reduced a little

Welcome to the whole concept of segmented speedruns. By redoing portions of the the game over and over, you allow yourself to overcome the luck obstacle. If you were to do a single segment run of Diablo 2, though, then luck would play a factor. However, that simply means that you would just make a lot of single-segment runs to completion before you were satisfied with the outcome.

Quote:

For the maps manipulation, it's for the run to become very interesting because exping would be so much faster, and same for the way we must take to reach each goal. So my point is to say : Diablo 2 would MUCH more fun to speedrun and to watch, if we re-equilibrated it expressly for speedrun. Anyway I could do a Nec speedrun (for example) without any changes in rules, so I say that more for Pally/Barb than any other class. (And I'm NOT asking allowing big cheating or big EQ of course)

I don't think you realize how excellent Diablo 2 is for segmented runs. In Single Player, you can preview the whole map your character spawned simply by playing ahead in the game. You can also rerun areas over and over to get better shrine rolls and item drops, thereby negating your need for a more entertaining run with equipment-based builds. Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I went to the trouble of rerunning segments in my Paladin run many many times over to get good drops, rather than settling for average crap. suga also made extra segments in his Amazon run simply to get +skills items from gambling. I'm sure you could handle putting forth a bit of extra effort to making your runs a bit more "lucky" without the need for intervention.

Anyways, as I've said a few times already, Diablo 2 runs don't need any external influence in exchange for better results. Have a little more faith in your playing skill and don't worry about making shortcuts.

[quote]Ok, I see what in the rules tell you it would be rejected, but it's a so little modification that either there's a solution to get it back, or it will be acceptable[/quote]
I'd say that rules are rules, but I'm not the administrator.  I would suggest you PM Radix or someone of power if this is really an issue to you, but I'm pretty sure they'll tell you not to run the game even if the modifications are essentially harmless.

[quote]there is really so much aleatoriness [b](what?)[/b] that it can become unfair because a luckier player can win over a more skill-full one, so I just ask that the luck factor is being reduced a little[/quote]
Welcome to the whole concept of segmented speedruns.  By redoing portions of the the game over and over, you allow yourself to overcome the luck obstacle.  If you were to do a single segment run of Diablo 2, though, then luck would play a factor.  However, that simply means that you would just make a lot of single-segment runs to completion before you were satisfied with the outcome.

[quote]For the maps manipulation, it's for the run to become very interesting because exping would be so much faster, and same for the way we must take to reach each goal. So my point is to say : Diablo 2 would MUCH more fun to speedrun and to watch, if we re-equilibrated it expressly for speedrun. Anyway I could do a Nec speedrun (for example) without any changes in rules, so I say that more for Pally/Barb than any other class. (And I'm NOT asking allowing big cheating or big EQ of course)[/quote]
I don't think you realize how excellent Diablo 2 is for segmented runs.  In Single Player, you can preview the whole map your character spawned simply by playing ahead in the game.  You can also rerun areas over and over to get better shrine rolls and item drops, thereby negating your need for a more entertaining run with equipment-based builds.  Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I went to the trouble of rerunning segments in my Paladin run many many times over to get good drops, rather than settling for average crap.  suga also made extra segments in his Amazon run simply to get +skills items from gambling.  I'm sure you could handle putting forth a bit of extra effort to making your runs a bit more "lucky" without the need for intervention.

Anyways, as I've said a few times already, Diablo 2 runs don't need any external influence in exchange for better results.  Have a little more faith in your playing skill and don't worry about making shortcuts.

getter77

2007-09-14 01:10:16 pm

100% runs=great to watch

I'd also agree with Zurreco. One can already see the groundwork laid out before them as far as generla methodology goes for a DII speedrun by watching and reading through the previous ones...from there ya just gotta tough it out with your chosen character. Maphack, starting with EQ, and whatnot has no place in anything.

SandsZebra

Edit history:

SandsZebra: 2007-09-14 04:47:58 pm

2007-09-14 03:22:02 pm

aleatoriness : Yeah I mean many things in this game are aleatory, particurlarly item drops. Don't know the good word though Grin

Hehe in fact, I would totally be the type of runner that has much faith :angel: (and I can be lucky too^^) and want to redo every segment until it is perfect as much in luck than in skill performance Cheesy

. And I really agree that this game is perfect with Segmented-Speedruns. My only real problem is because some things are rather tiresome and some others I'd so much want perfection but it's impossible Sad

, I'll explain here :

My point in map manipulation is that you can't have the map good everywhere, and in fact it can only be average through the 5 Acts ; so you'll have very good places as well as very bad places about their mapping. Plus it is possible just by going in open bnet so there's no cheats :idea: . But I'll ask gently someone of the moderators about those points (maps/EQ), what is possible to change, because I ask only little changing (for EQ), and if my Cain problem is resolvable or acceptable. Who would you think I should ask that btw Smiley

?

As for FRAPS : If there's any way I can either resolve my problem with CamStudio (where could I get help if needed) or get access to FRAPS recording for more than 30 seconds and not paying 37$, well that would be nice.

Oh yes also, I have to agree totally with your signature and your little comment Getter77 Smiley

Hmm Zurreco, is your .gif coming from demon's crest (I like this game a lot) or a game like this one ^^ ?

aleatoriness : Yeah I mean many things in this game are aleatory, particurlarly item drops. Don't know the good word though ;D

Hehe in fact, I would totally be the type of runner that has much faith :angel: (and I can be lucky too^^) and want to redo every segment until it is perfect as much in luck than in skill performance :D . And I really agree that this game is perfect with Segmented-Speedruns. My only real problem is because some things are rather tiresome and some others I'd so much want perfection but it's impossible :( , I'll explain here :

My point in map manipulation is that you can't have the map good everywhere, and in fact it can only be average through the 5 Acts ; so you'll have very good places as well as very bad places about their mapping. Plus it is possible just by going in open bnet so there's no cheats :idea: . But I'll ask gently someone of the moderators about those points (maps/EQ), what is possible to change, because I ask only little changing (for EQ), and if my Cain problem is resolvable or acceptable. Who would you think I should ask that btw :) ?

As for FRAPS : If there's any way I can either resolve my problem with CamStudio (where could I get help if needed) or get access to FRAPS recording for more than 30 seconds and not paying 37$, well that would be nice.

Oh yes also, I have to agree totally with your signature and your little comment Getter77 :)
Hmm Zurreco, is your .gif coming from demon's crest (I like this game a lot) or a game like this one ^^ ?

Zurreco

2007-09-14 04:52:15 pm

Just call me the cynicism machine

Yep, it's from Demon's Crest.

I'm sure if you were less saintly than I, you could always pirate a copy of FRAPS pretty easily.

Lag.Com

2007-09-14 06:53:39 pm

sda loyalist

Quote:

aleatory

Random. Aleatory sure is a neat word, though.

SandsZebra

2007-09-14 07:13:20 pm

Quote:

Random. Aleatory sure is a neat word, though.

Yep, exactly 8)

SandsZebra

2007-09-14 10:06:36 pm

So, Who would you think I should ask in the moderators about my strange Cain emplacement (with other things maybe) ? Or is it the same whoever I ask about it ?

Zurreco

Edit history:

Zurreco: 2007-09-14 10:55:54 pm

2007-09-14 10:55:29 pm

Just call me the cynicism machine

Radix is the head honcho around here, but I'm sure nate or mikwuyma or DJGrenola will be able to give you an idea of what to do.

Lag.Com

2007-09-14 11:16:55 pm

sda loyalist

Or me.

Your Cain placement thing isn't acceptable; for all we know, you may be using a mod which makes things easier, loot drop more often, etc. Your game needs to look like (and be) the original as possible or there's no hope of a run being accepted.