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(new acc. drMalcom)
Hello,

I've completed a speedrun of the training map in Deus Ex. Here is the best route I could find:


I use the grenade jumping / clipping glitches as seen in the Deus Ex speedrun. But I also use grenade climbing and the "infinite items" glitch that I've found and that lets you duplicate any item.

Let me know what you guys think about it. Thanks !

The commentary is the same as the one on the youtube page
** Segment 1
Nothing special here, just need to open all the doors as fast as possible.
JC then goes for a swim without the protective suite, because there really is no use to it.
The combat training area: the switches can be activated early if you crouch and press the use button. You can take the pistol just as easily. The first target can be skipped. But you cannot skip any of those conversations.

** Segment 2
This one is really crazy. First, JC uses the "infinite items" glitch, as described in my videos. I pick up 5 LAMs. I only need 4, but you can take as much as 10 with luck.
Now, a few interesting things to note:
- You cannot approach the buttons or Gunther will start a convo
- You cannot go near the LAM on the wall or Gunther will start a convo
- You must destroy only the 2nd bot and not the 1st one or Gunther will start a convo
Here, I use the "grenade clipping" (see my vids) glitch to get pushed on the other side of the window. Once there, I have to stay on the ledge and not fall on the ground. I then throw a LAM to destroy the 2nd bot only, turn around and do another grenade clipping to the other side. This grenade does not destroy the 1st bot because it is protected by the frame of the window.
This part is madness, took me perhaps 1000 re-runs.

** Segment 3
I throw a LAM to destroy the first door and stay close to the UNATCO guy for the extra LAMs. I then grenade climb the breached wall to skip one convo with Gunther. Once on the other side, I have to wait for the infolink to stfu so I just play around with the UNATCO guy.
Nothing special in the grenade defusing facility.
I then drop the LAMs and take them back, because I will need them in the next section.

** Segment 4
I throw a LAM near the alarm button. This will destroy the button and the guy will have to run to another button, giving me more time than needed to leave.
JC destroys the bot while taking fire. It doesn't matter, since you cannot die in the training room. As long as I don't take leg damage, all is fine.
I grenade jump to the pipes and leave the room.
In the last part, I avoid the convo with Page by both sneaking in as fast as possible and by not looking at him.
At the very end, you can hear the lam-arming sound. This will happen if you are holding a LAM. If you have a pistol in your inventory, you will hear the pistol sound.
Thread title:  
Take less leg damage might be able to save frames if you grab the bio suit as you run pass it then your legs wont be hurt.

If you are segmenting execution should be much crisper for such a short run but I will treat this as a route planning video.

LAM jump at the end should be done while running at the pipe, I think it should easily be posisble.  Don't have DX installed atm (rare occasion) but there may be a better route for final part but would need to play around with it a little.

All up it is good first planning but can be improved. Always happy to see more Deus EX Smiley good work so far.
(new acc. drMalcom)
The suit can save 30 leg damage. I'll have to see whether this can save some frames.
I really have to segment the run. Segment 2 was 1000 re-runs alone.
The last jump can probably be done while running, but I couldn't do it. I've also tried to cross the river by grenade jumping from the cardboard boxes but I'm not sure it can be done.
Nice!
Maybe that infinite item glitch could be used to save time in the whole Deus Ex speedrun ?!
Technically, I've beaten this level faster, but only because I was able to skip the infolinks by alt-tabbing out. It doesn't work anymore, so I think it was caused by a third-party graphics renderer I was using at the time.

This run is very nice. All the hoops you jump through to avoid infolinks remind me of the Invisible War run I'm working on. Since it's segmented, it could be a bit faster here and there, but saving is limited to times when there isn't an infolink going so you can't expect those grenade tricks to be TAS-like.

I can only see a couple possible minor improvements. One is picking up and throwing the tech goggles in the stealth area to run past the guard without being spotted instead of needing to sneak LAMs through the checkpoint. I haven't been able to run past without slowing down, but it may be possible if you throw the goggles at the right time and direction. The other is swimming across the water in the area with the bot instead of the grenade jump. Being able to climb out of the water seems a bit random, but it may depend on where you are in the bobbing cycle. I find if I run towards the ladder then jump into the water and swim directly across, there's a reasonable chance that I can climb out on the other side on my first try and run straight to the exit.

The multiple pickup glitch is certainly interesting. It doesn't seem to work when searching bodies but it does for picking up ammo. It could definitely save some time in a run of the full game by avoiding having to go out of the way for rockets, grenades, biocells, and ammo. You wouldn't need to worry so much about conserving energy and maybe it wouldn't even be worthwhile to use repairbots. (Dex is going to be pissed. Or maybe ecstatic.)

I found that I couldn't get more than about 5 pickups per item, regardless of scrolling sensitivity. Either Deus Ex overrides that setting or there's an actual limit. Anyone with a fancy new free spinning mouse wheel want to try?
(new acc. drMalcom)
Quote from NMS:
One is picking up and throwing the tech goggles in the stealth area to run past the guard without being spotted instead of needing to sneak LAMs through the checkpoint.
You'd have to walk (and not run) for maybe 1 or 2 seconds, because the 1st guard is close to the entrance. Even if you can drop the goggles in front of the guard and run to the camo, he immediately turns around and see you (I've tried that). I think I can take back the dropped LAMs a bit faster. But you can't throw them while running because you'd have more of a drop than a throw.

Quote from NMS:
The other is swimming across the water in the area

I'll definitely try the swimming thing !

Quote from NMS:
I found that I couldn't get more than about 5 pickups per item

In one of my video I can infinite items 6 times (I have 2 health kits and after the glitch I have 8 of them). I'm not sure what is the limit.

Quote from NMS:
Anyone with a fancy new free spinning mouse wheel want to try?

I have a G500 with a very low resistance scroll, so maybe this is why I can infinite items 6 times. It does have a free scroll, but I'm not using it because it is not clear to me whether this is considered cheating or not.

Quote from atomicJo:
Maybe that infinite item glitch could be used to save time in the whole Deus Ex speedrun ?!

In the DX speedrun you can infinite LAMs at 4:30 on the way to the warehouse. I see a lot of places where this glitch could be used, maybe I'll post a few ideas in the DX thread. I hope Dex is still working on the new run ! That would be awesome.
Edit history:
Amoirealinge: 2011-05-18 01:52:14 pm
Amoirealinge: 2011-05-18 01:49:27 pm
(new acc. drMalcom)
Ok, I've received a few suggestions from Rake and NMS. Here are the results.

80-ish leg damage versus 50-ish: you walk just as fast. With 0 leg damage, you are 4% faster, tho. Maybe I can use the medbot in the first demolition room.

You can distract the guard with the goggles. I was just being a pessimist earlier.


Yes, swimming is a lot faster than the grenade jump.


I think I can merge segments 3 and 4. And with all these improvements, I can easily make it under 6'. Thanks a lot !

BTW, in the first segment, when you have to use the ladder, maybe jumping to the ladder from the pipe on the left can save a few ms.

Any other suggestions are welcome Smiley

(videos in super low quality, because my Internet connection is slooooow)
What happens with the goggles drop? does it distract the guard to the point that he doesn't spot you ?
Buggy DeusEx AI XDXDXD
Glad I could help. A couple more minor things: You should start the knife attack to break the crate sooner, and it may be slightly faster to go to the right of the stack of crates in the middle of the dark room instead of left (turn the light on and check it).

It's possible to use the other lockpick crate to get to the pipes running beside the long swim, but I'm pretty sure carrying it slows you down way too much. It's also tough to get it through the room with the jumping and crawling under pipes. Sadly the small metal crate doesn't seem to work, even when I get it to land on the sloped edge of the pipe to raise it a bit. Putting it on top of the hazmat suit makes it much higher, but then I can't get on top.

In the room with the bot, I think you should aim for the left corner of the second storage platform and jump from there to be as direct as possible.

Interestingly, the multiple pickup trick works in Invisible War, but only for things that don't take an inventory slot like ammo and biomod canisters. Ammo is irrelevant and more biomods aren't really need, though they might save a little time here and there.
Edit history:
Amoirealinge: 2011-05-19 06:14:42 am
(new acc. drMalcom)
Quote from atomicJo:
What happens with the goggles drop? does it distract the guard to the point that he doesn't spot you ?

I think that the key is that when you walk past him, he has to turn around the opposite way. But yeah, after a few tries you can even bump into him and he would still not see you.

Quote from NMS:
It's also tough to get it through the room with the jumping and crawling under pipes.
Yeah, I was trying something similar, but everytime the crate would fall and break. Maybe there is still hope for the metal crate.

Quote from NMS:
In the room with the bot, I think you should aim for the left corner of the second storage platform and jump from there to be as direct as possible.
I have to dive when I'm still behind the bot, because I don't have the LAMs anymore.

Quote from NMS:
Interestingly, the multiple pickup trick works in Invisible War
Cool, good to know !
I can only get 6x items even with the freescoll. And LAMs planted on a wall cannot be duplicated. So you'd have to first drop the one in the inventory, take the one on the wall and then do the glitch on the LAM on the floor.
Edit history:
NMS: 2011-05-19 08:54:50 am
There's probably time to use the medbot in the first LAM area. Remember you can use alt-e to heal. If not, you could go back after throwing the LAM to destroy the door. Nope, the door locks behind you.

The bot can't kill you, but if you think the leg damage would slow you down, you could run a little more to the left than I suggested.

Jumping from the pipe onto the ladder in the first segment feels like it saves some time climbing the ladder. You have to jump just right though or you fall off the ladder instead of climbing it.

You may also want to check an extension of the multiple pickup trick I found in Invisible War. If you save and load while aiming at an item, you can spam pickup during the load to pick it up a huge number of times. Unfortunately, DX1 seems to reset your vertical view angle when you load, so it would only work with items at the right height.
(new acc. drMalcom)
Quote from NMS:
If not, you could go back after throwing the LAM to destroy the door. Nope, the door locks behind you.

Yup, and a metal crate doesn't stop the door.

Ok more test results:
Dark room: right vs left -> no difference
Jumping from the pipe to the ladder -> no difference

For the long swim, I can get on top of the thing with the suit in it, but that's about it.
For the river, I can swim across it anywhere but right in front of the exit. I have to swim somewhere else, and then I don't think it matters where I do it. So I may as well do it behind the bot.
(new acc. drMalcom)
Quote from NMS:
You may also want to check an extension of the multiple pickup trick I found in Invisible War. If you save and load while aiming at an item, you can spam pickup during the load to pick it up a huge number of times. Unfortunately, DX1 seems to reset your vertical view angle when you load, so it would only work with items at the right height.

Nope, doesn't work in DX1 apparently.
Edit history:
Amoirealinge: 2011-05-23 11:02:22 am
(new acc. drMalcom)
Edit: sorry, just forget what I wrote. Leg damage IS slower than 100% health.
As I wrote in the other DX thread, I've made some tests on the leg damage. And:
100 / 100 hp
20 / 20 hp
100 / 0 hp
10 / 10 hp

You always walk at the same speed. Leg damage does not slow you down.
I'm not sure I really need to re-run segments 1 and 2. I don't need the suit or the medbot.
Edit history:
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 07:06:35 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 04:22:24 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 03:55:11 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 03:52:58 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 02:46:25 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 02:44:06 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 02:42:21 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 02:41:00 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 02:36:37 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 02:35:10 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 02:34:52 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 02:33:40 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 02:33:10 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 02:29:23 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 02:29:02 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 01:21:59 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 12:44:24 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 12:43:38 pm
-80830/100 Health
I'm not very good at speed running yet, but the save glitch I found helps compensate for my lack of knowledge and skill.



So the main improvement is creating a glitched save at the start instead of starting with the training. It adds about 25 seconds to the start of my run, but loading the save later allows me to skip through all of Gunther's talking. Even though I haven't optimized the run, the weapon part is still about 40 seconds quicker than Amoirealinge's run.

There is another loading glitch that allows me to start the training map with a prod and pistol - which should save some time with the lockpicking part. I'm not sure how this glitch works yet- but it seems like I need to attack at the time of the conversation, create a hard save on the last frame, and then hit enter twice to start the training map.

Also I did the run based upon what I saw Amoirealinge do... I only just recently found this thread.
Edit history:
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 07:10:26 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 07:07:15 pm
llliterateChild: 2013-12-09 07:06:08 pm
-80830/100 Health
It is possible to jump up on the pipes and skip the radioactive water. You can do it with just a crate, but it is very, very difficult. To make it easier, you can toss the crate onto an item. There seems to be two items available to use: a candy bar and a hazmat suit.



The candy bar was about 37 seconds. The hazmat suit was about 31. I did this same segment without the crate in about 27 seconds, without stopping to heal at the bot. If I got that jump to the ladder, I probably could have save another 2 seconds. But to bring it to about the same speed, I think I need a quicker way of  getting over the wooden crates and opening the door.
Edit history:
Labbekak: 2013-12-10 07:50:58 am
Labbekak: 2013-12-10 07:48:04 am
Deus Ex!
You can clip through the door of the Covert mission, of course distracting the guard is easier and faster, so there's no point in doing the clip. I might do some single segment runs, but I have to practice the covert section first.

EDIT: I got about 5:45 RTA (http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3372012), but I don't really know how to time this, so it might be longer than 5:45.
-80830/100 Health
Nice run Labbekak! I did an RTA in about 6:10 from start up the other day. I got the glitched save on the first try, but I was really careful with the covert segment and then I talked to Bob Page so it was a slightly slower run I think. I also have no idea how these are being timed.

So did you start with the pistol by just holding it? I'll try that out, but I don't think that will work in my version of the game. I'm using a slightly different version than most people. 
Throwing the LAMs at about 3:54 is not needed. That guy doesn't seem to pick stuff up if you get there quick enough. 
That was a very smooth grenade jump, but as NMS pointed out it is possible to distract the guards with tech goggles. It is possible to jump out of the water quickly, so it might be faster to do the covert section without LAMs.

Deus Ex!
Yeah I just have to equip the pistol and I have it in the training. I did the grenade jump because I either get out of the water first try or I can't get out at all, but I'll practice it.
Deus Ex!
Okay new time 5:12 (http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3372985). I wanted to get the sniper from Liberty Island all the way to weapons training, because the pistol section is very annoying, since the pistol is so inaccurate. You have to smuggle the sniper past 2 checkpoints though, which is a bit tricky. Other than that this is the same route as my other run, I just didn't fail the Covert section.
-80830/100 Health
Quote from Labbekak:
Yeah I just have to equip the pistol and I have it in the training. I did the grenade jump because I either get out of the water first try or I can't get out at all, but I'll practice it.


I tried it out, doesn't work for me Cry  I'm using 1.109fm off a CD, so this is one of the few glitches I can't do on my version.

Another bug I found is that if you pick up an item and clip it into a wall, and then start the training, you will have that object in your hands when  you start training. If you do this glitch + the one with the sniper rifle, you could start the training map with a sniper rifle and a crate containing a lockpick. Should save a few more seconds in the training map.

But what if you took a stack of LAMs instead of a sniper rifle? At the very least, you could skip the toxic water. There is one area you can skip if you clip through some windows. If you can clip through the doors though, I think it would be possible to do the first segment in under a minute...





Deus Ex!
Where would you get the LAMs from for the first segment?
-80830/100 Health
If you want to do it from the start of the game, there are two close to each other inside the statue around where they hold Gunther.  One in that area outside the trip wire alarm around some trash. The other is in a room with a window to Gunther's cell (the one without the turret).  To start the training map with them, you would have to talk to Gunther.

It would take some time get these, so I think it would only be worth it if you were just timing the training map itself, or if you could clip through most of the doors.
Deus Ex!
Timing just the training map seems really unfair.