Deus Ex, Realistic any% (again)

2013-12-05 12:35:28 pm

Deus Ex!

I did a complete run using the Dead Man Walking glitch (49:34, http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3346573). I did everything after the Warehouse mission with negative torso health. It's pretty unforgiving, you have to activate a superjump almost every fall, touching a flaming barrel will kill you instantly and you have to destroy all the turrets in your path.

llliterateChild

2013-12-06 02:26:13 pm

-80830/100 Health

Not a bad time at all considering it is a new route. Here are a few things that might make it a bit faster:
1. You should probably still try to do the save glitch at Paul. If you get it there it should save some time.
2. This is a very small thing, but there is a soda by Jamie Reyes that should be really easy to pick up.
3. If you are going to wait for the door to open to your cell, you probably have the time to clone some grenades if you want. I don't recall if you clone them later or not.
4. At the MJ12 ocean floor- about 41:06 you destroy a turret next to a body. Instead of using a rocket, you could try throwing a LAM or an EMP grenade on the body. Doing so will cause it to detonate on impact, but I'm not sure if the explosion will be big enough to effect the turret. If it works, you can use that rocket elsewhere.

Labbekak

2013-12-06 02:36:12 pm

Deus Ex!

1. I haven't managed to do it with Paul yet, but I'll practice some more since it will save a bunch of time if I can do it at the start.
2. Good idea, I'll skip the soda at the start.
3. I only need to clone the LAMs at the Warehouse and the EMPs at the Mole Tunnels, I have enough grenades after those. I don't even need to get the gas grenades.
4. That's very interesting, I will give it a try.

UraniumAnchor

2013-12-07 08:21:37 pm

Not a walrus

The Dead Man Walking glitch sounds monstrously unsafe for a marathon so I don't think I'll be trying to incorporate it this late, but I'm trying to decide if it's worth hitting the medbot in Everett's home to get Cloak, because a couple spots in Area 51 get a bit hairy without it (especially if I'm doing one of the other endings for donations). Is there another medbot between the freighter and Area 51 that isn't too far out of the way? Drawing a bit of a blank on their locations.

Labbekak

Edit history:

Labbekak: 2013-12-08 06:02:50 am

Labbekak: 2013-12-08 02:01:54 am

2013-12-08 01:53:31 am

Deus Ex!

You can get Cloak at Versalife level 2 and install it right there or you can get Cloak at the ship and install it in the ships medbay on your way out. There's also a medbot at Vandenberg which you can run to right before you leave (there are 2 MJ12 guarding it though, check out this video for the location:

UraniumAnchor

2013-12-08 11:40:19 am

Not a walrus

Hmm, where's Cloak in Versalife? Drawing a blank on that one too.

Labbekak

2013-12-08 01:36:40 pm

Deus Ex!

http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusex/hongkong3/hongkong3.htm, screenshot 44.

UraniumAnchor

2013-12-08 03:26:25 pm

Not a walrus

Yeah seems like the medbot in the ship is way less of a detour, so if I don't just install it in Everett's then I'll probably go with the ship medbot.

llliterateChild

2013-12-09 10:43:07 am

-80830/100 Health

Quote from Labbekak:

1. I haven't managed to do it with Paul yet, but I'll practice some more since it will save a bunch of time if I can do it at the start.

Just started doing some speed running for the training- and it is not easy to get that save. I think I am successful probably 10% of the time. However if you mess up the first one, you could always talk to him again- the next one seems easier to time to me. It is not as fast, but will still be faster than using the trooper outside the base.

Labbekak

2013-12-09 12:36:33 pm

Deus Ex!

It seems to be slightly faster (but a lot harder) to kill Tiffany personally: http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3367455.

UraniumAnchor

2013-12-09 04:47:40 pm

Not a walrus

Seems like I wait a lot longer than that for them to kill her when I just wake them up with a rifle shot, so I'd say so. Assuming you can spare the rocket.

Labbekak

2013-12-09 04:51:10 pm

Deus Ex!

You can also use a LAM with no time loss. The tricky part is jumping in the hole and jumping out of it, it's quite precise, I think this is more something for the segmented. NMS how far are you, are you still planning on finishing it?

NMS

2013-12-12 09:41:58 pm

Yeah, I'm planning to get back to it at some point. I just haven't figured out if any of the new tricks are useful and what to do about route changes.

UraniumAnchor

Edit history:

UraniumAnchor: 2013-12-15 05:03:05 am

2013-12-15 04:58:11 am

Not a walrus

Not sure if it was noticed before, but I didn't see it in Labbekak's 45:02, but the blast door in HK Helibase actually becomes breakable as soon (I think) as the bot door on the left opens, shortly before Jock fires his own missile, and if you fire fast enough he won't even shoot his own missile so there's less risk of getting blown up by Jock. A gep rocket will work. Might save a second or two.

Labbekak

2013-12-15 05:07:51 am

Deus Ex!

Yeah I actually made an highlight of that a month ago Wink

(http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3238401). It's just that the turret inside will still be there when you use the GEP and it's a little tricky to get past it. So since it saves so little time and it's risky I don't do it in RTA, and in the segmented run it's faster to clip through the door.

UraniumAnchor

2013-12-15 05:08:26 am

Not a walrus

Bah, there's too much stuff happening in this game to keep track of it all. Tongue

Labbekak

2013-12-15 05:13:05 am

Deus Ex!

Yeah, I don't know if you're already set on your route, but you could show off the Dead Man Walking glitch at the Catacombs using something like this route: http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3299900.

UraniumAnchor

2013-12-15 05:25:24 am

Not a walrus

The route's gonna be a mix between your 45:02 and dex's old run. The biggest differences from your 45:02 include getting regen/cloak/recirc, which means I'll be using the first LAW in the ship and picking up the one from Duclare's basement (and grabbing the aug upgrade since I'm in there anyway), since I tried for about 15 minutes to get the crypt door clip to work and couldn't even get it once. Closest I could get was getting clipped out of bounds and instakilled. I'm still debating whether or not to clip out of Everett's window or just running up there to get the key, since it's finicky enough that it might not be good for a live run. Any advice on making it more consistent? The other two clips (vandenberg fence (not the command door, same problem I was having with the crypt) and ocean lab) are going to be in either way.

As for Dead Man Walking, probably not, I'll have cloak for the catacombs which makes it almost as trivial and I don't have to worry about accidentally killing myself with a fire barrel. Wink

The route's gonna be a mix between your 45:02 and dex's old run. The biggest differences from your 45:02 include getting regen/cloak/recirc, which means I'll be using the first LAW in the ship and picking up the one from Duclare's basement (and grabbing the aug upgrade since I'm in there anyway), since I tried for about 15 minutes to get the crypt door clip to work and couldn't even get it once. Closest I could get was getting clipped out of bounds and instakilled. I'm still debating whether or not to clip out of Everett's window or just running up there to get the key, since it's finicky enough that it might not be good for a live run. Any advice on making it more consistent? The other two clips (vandenberg fence (not the command door, same problem I was having with the crypt) and ocean lab) are going to be in either way.

As for Dead Man Walking, probably not, I'll have cloak for the catacombs which makes it almost as trivial and I don't have to worry about accidentally killing myself with a fire barrel. ;)

Labbekak

Edit history:

Labbekak: 2013-12-15 03:24:46 pm

2013-12-15 05:59:01 am

Deus Ex!

For the Everett clip have you tried experimenting with holding forward while throwing vs throwing first and then stepping on the grenade? You should aim a bit in to the window.

EDIT: I aim like this for the Everett clip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56227900/deusex/everett.png), I throw the grenade and then walk on it. I don't hold forward, I just tap forward after I throw the grenade.
The Vandenberg really is more random, so it's fine that you skip it. The Catacombs clip is even harder.

UraniumAnchor

2013-12-15 04:46:36 pm

Not a walrus

Yeah, I definitely get a lot more consistency by throwing it and THEN moving. Thanks.

Labbekak

2013-12-15 04:54:00 pm

Deus Ex!

Another approach which I saw footbigmike do, is moving to one side of the window and aiming about here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56227900/deusex/everett2.png (very dark but should be visible). Now just hold forward and throw, this one also seems very consistent.

footbigmike

2013-12-16 04:50:41 pm

With clips through the super-thin walls like windows (Everett's/Sealab escape), I usually aim halfway between the edge of the ledge and the edge of the window, and then step on the grenade just after throwing. It's really consistent. For the clip to escape the UNATCO cell, I aim between the bottom of the glass and the edge on the other side of the glass. It's not as consistent, though, but worth a shot.

Here's my latest PB. I would say it has all the latest tricks, but it doesn't. Things I need to add in are the quicker Tiffany kill, the UNATCO cell clip, and I think there are one or two things that Lab keeps telling me to do that I'm not doing. The Missile Silo shot was really bad, too. I'm very tempted to start going for the Hangar Bay clip in runs, but ehhhhhhh. I might just practice/search for optimisations for a little while.

With clips through the super-thin walls like windows (Everett's/Sealab escape), I usually aim [url="http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/468670733855629207/AFD490F1776AAA8CA8C24B8D4E9FD05709753E21/"]halfway between the edge of the ledge and the edge of the window[/url], and then step on the grenade just after throwing. It's really consistent. For the clip to escape the UNATCO cell, I aim between the bottom of the glass and the edge on the other side of the glass. It's not as consistent, though, but worth a shot.

[url="http://www.twitch.tv/footbigmike/c/3360440"]Here's[/url] my latest PB. I would say it has all the latest tricks, but it doesn't. Things I need to add in are the quicker Tiffany kill, the UNATCO cell clip, and I think there are one or two things that Lab keeps telling me to do that I'm not doing. The Missile Silo shot was really bad, too. I'm very tempted to start going for the Hangar Bay clip in runs, but ehhhhhhh. I might just practice/search for optimisations for a little while.

Labbekak

Edit history:

Labbekak: 2013-12-16 06:08:40 pm

Labbekak: 2013-12-16 06:06:47 pm

Labbekak: 2013-12-16 06:05:28 pm

Labbekak: 2013-12-16 05:56:13 pm

2013-12-16 05:53:57 pm

Deus Ex!

For the Helibase clip this spot seems to work quite well for me: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56227900/deusex/helibase-clip2.png.

You probably know most of these things, but here some stuff that I didn't see you do in your PB and other things that could be useful.

It might be worth it to get a buggy hard save from Paul at the start (there's probably only like 5 seconds time loss if you can get the buggy save on the first conversation with Paul), it's useful for the Helibase clip to get a quicksave and at the Missile Silo to skip the infolinks.

If you have the buggy save you can clone the aug upgrades at Osgoods, but that will probably not save you any time. (http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3299450)

If you load the buggy save right as you enter the UNATCO prison you'll keep your items and won't have to drop them.

Jumping over the lasers at the Subway, I pretty sure you know this already but find it too risky, but might be worth practicing? (http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3238436)

You don't do the little box jump at the Warehouse? You just walk forward and then strafe left slightly, jump after you get on the first big box.

You don't have to clone LAMs at the Warehouse, you only need one to destroy the generator and one for the grenade jump (you can also try getting LAMs from the crates inside). If you do get extra LAMs early you could try a double (or triple maybe?) grenade jump to skip the ladder climbing at the Warehouse.

You have one rocket left before the UNATCO escape, you can use this one at:
1. Osgoods to destroy the door inside and skip the 6549 code.
2. NSF Helibase for shooting the door to the aug upgrade instead of using a LAM (this is how I use the spare rocket)
3. Maybe at the 747 Airplane, instead of 3 LAW shots do 1 GEP shot and 2 LAW shots, might be slightly faster, but probably not enough to bother.
4. Kill yourself at Hell's Kitchen 2 to get to UNATCO prison, is probably faster than using a LAM.

Maybe you can do the Dead Man Walking glitch at Area 51, like this: http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3299917. You won't have to get the Camo at the Mole Tunnels (maybe you could try the clip there?, http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3299472).

At the Subbase you can jump down the elevator (NMS' video, https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/attachment/3VCYk%2BB%2FrNC9a5%2BHKG%2BGVmtED%2Bc) and on the way back you can jump back up as well.

At Area 51 it might be useful to get another superjump as you fall down in to the bunker, just so you don't have to heal up the fall damage later on, but I guess you actually lose time if you get another superjump.

At the ship for the first GEP shot you walk forwards, when you don't need to do that (http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3227346), you lose a few seconds by walking forwards.

Destroying the Helibase doors earlier (http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3238401).

You can clip out of the last Area 51 elevator earlier, doesn't save much time, but you don't lose any time trying it (http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3089455).

Like you mentioned already, fast Tiffany kill (http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3367455).

Most of this stuff will probably be too hard/inconsistent for RTA, but you could give it a try.

For the Helibase clip this spot seems to work quite well for me: [url]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56227900/deusex/helibase-clip2.png[/url].

You probably know most of these things, but here some stuff that I didn't see you do in your PB and other things that could be useful.

It might be worth it to get a buggy hard save from Paul at the start (there's probably only like 5 seconds time loss if you can get the buggy save on the first conversation with Paul), it's useful for the Helibase clip to get a quicksave and at the Missile Silo to skip the infolinks.

If you have the buggy save you can clone the aug upgrades at Osgoods, but that will probably not save you any time. ([url]http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3299450[/url])

If you load the buggy save right as you enter the UNATCO prison you'll keep your items and won't have to drop them.

Jumping over the lasers at the Subway, I pretty sure you know this already but find it too risky, but might be worth practicing? ([url]http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3238436[/url])

You don't do the little box jump at the Warehouse? You just walk forward and then strafe left slightly, jump after you get on the first big box.

You don't have to clone LAMs at the Warehouse, you only need one to destroy the generator and one for the grenade jump (you can also try getting LAMs from the crates inside). If you do get extra LAMs early you could try a double (or triple maybe?) grenade jump to skip the ladder climbing at the Warehouse.

You have one rocket left before the UNATCO escape, you can use this one at:
1. Osgoods to destroy the door inside and skip the 6549 code.
2. NSF Helibase for shooting the door to the aug upgrade instead of using a LAM (this is how I use the spare rocket)
3. Maybe at the 747 Airplane, instead of 3 LAW shots do 1 GEP shot and 2 LAW shots, might be slightly faster, but probably not enough to bother.
4. Kill yourself at Hell's Kitchen 2 to get to UNATCO prison, is probably faster than using a LAM.

Maybe you can do the Dead Man Walking glitch at Area 51, like this: [url]http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3299917[/url]. You won't have to get the Camo at the Mole Tunnels (maybe you could try the clip there?, [url]http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3299472[/url]).

At the Subbase you can jump down the elevator (NMS' video, [url]https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/attachment/3VCYk%2BB%2FrNC9a5%2BHKG%2BGVmtED%2Bc[/url]) and on the way back you can jump back up as well.

At Area 51 it might be useful to get another superjump as you fall down in to the bunker, just so you don't have to heal up the fall damage later on, but I guess you actually lose time if you get another superjump.

At the ship for the first GEP shot you walk forwards, when you don't need to do that ([url]http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3227346[/url]), you lose a few seconds by walking forwards.

Destroying the Helibase doors earlier ([url]http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3238401[/url]).

You can clip out of the last Area 51 elevator earlier, doesn't save much time, but you don't lose any time trying it ([url]http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3089455[/url]).

Like you mentioned already, fast Tiffany kill ([url]http://www.twitch.tv/labbekak/c/3367455[/url]).

Most of this stuff will probably be too hard/inconsistent for RTA, but you could give it a try.

UraniumAnchor

2013-12-17 01:38:26 am

Not a walrus

Quote from footbigmike:

With clips through the super-thin walls like windows (Everett's/Sealab escape), I usually aim halfway between the edge of the ledge and the edge of the window, and then step on the grenade just after throwing. It's really consistent. For the clip to escape the UNATCO cell, I aim between the bottom of the glass and the edge on the other side of the glass. It's not as consistent, though, but worth a shot.

Do the grenades have different hitboxes? It seems to me that LAMs are way more consistent on Everett/Sealab and a gas grenade is better on the Vandenberg fence. Could just be my imagination I suppose.

Labbekak

2013-12-17 05:27:16 am

Deus Ex!

I'm pretty sure the grenades work a little different yes, for example sometimes you can throw the gas grenades through the door/floor. Personally I find that the EMP grenades work best for me for basically all the clips.