Deus Ex, Realistic any% (again)

2009-04-29 08:21:17 pm

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I need the sniper ammo in order to go fast through stages, in fact it is even more crucial than GEP ammo at times... and I need the sniper rifle for several shots in segment 3, 4 and 5 already. Shots that are either crucial to my survival or save several seconds. The earliest different sniper rifle is on the way is at the end of level 5, exactly after the demand for the sniper rifle starts getting smaller than in the early segments. And GEP gun is ABSOLUTELY useless for the first 19 segments. And even if it weren't useless, I don't have the skill points to be able to walk with the GEP at a normal speed. Excuse me for not carrying garbage in my inventory for half the run :P. GEP ammo is relatively simple to get, too. There are enemies with packets of the ammo running about, and there's a still unused quick-to-get-to cache. Of course, I don't *want* to have to get the GEP ammo, but not having the sniper rifle would make me lose a LOT of time (at least 10 seconds + about 4 to get the sniper rifle + 4 to get additional ammo since enemies don't drop a lot), and make the run a LOT harder.

I lose time because if you press space too early, the first line of dialog has a lag of up to 5 frames, can't have that (heck, I saved almost 0.3s when I found out about that glitch in segment 5! I tended to press space too early before talking to Jock). Pressing space about 0.5 of a second before the convo works best, and so it happens the perfect time for hitting space is the time a single jump takes, so I'll probably still be using the jump-into-convos trick here and there.

Quote:

You could always plug in a second USB keyboard, have it on the floor and press the escape key with your foot Wink.

This is all for fun and show anyway, why would I abandon my usual fun ways to get the time down by shody means? Tongue

But I will test around with the keypad idea, while not good for inputs using mostly 1-6 digits, some of the ones that go up to 9 might benefit from a keybinding change.

I need the sniper ammo in order to go fast through stages, in fact it is even more crucial than GEP ammo at times... and I need the sniper rifle for several shots in segment 3, 4 and 5 already. Shots that are either crucial to my survival or save several seconds. The earliest different sniper rifle is on the way is at the end of level 5, exactly after the demand for the sniper rifle starts getting smaller than in the early segments. And GEP gun is ABSOLUTELY useless for the first 19 segments. And even if it weren't useless, I don't have the skill points to be able to walk with the GEP at a normal speed. Excuse me for not carrying garbage in my inventory for half the run :P. GEP ammo is relatively simple to get, too. There are enemies with packets of the ammo running about, and there's a still unused quick-to-get-to cache. Of course, I don't *want* to have to get the GEP ammo, but not having the sniper rifle would make me lose a LOT of time (at least 10 seconds + about 4 to get the sniper rifle + 4 to get additional ammo since enemies don't drop a lot), and make the run a LOT harder.

I lose time because if you press space too early, the first line of dialog has a lag of up to 5 frames, can't have that (heck, I saved almost 0.3s when I found out about that glitch in segment 5! I tended to press space too early before talking to Jock). Pressing space about 0.5 of a second before the convo works best, and so it happens the perfect time for hitting space is the time a single jump takes, so I'll probably still be using the jump-into-convos trick here and there.

[quote]You could always plug in a second USB keyboard, have it on the floor and press the escape key with your foot Wink.[/quote]
This is all for fun and show anyway, why would I abandon my usual fun ways to get the time down by shody means? :P But I will test around with the keypad idea, while not good for inputs using mostly 1-6 digits, some of the ones that go up to 9 might benefit from a keybinding change.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-04-30 09:24:13 am

That all makes sense.

Quote:

This is all for fun and show anyway, why would I abandon my usual fun ways to get the time down by shody means?

See, if I was you I'd do the extra-keyboard-pressed-by-foot trick and make a point of mentioning it in the comments purely FOR the fun and show. Wink

tekknej

2009-04-30 12:12:37 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

ok now, people demand foot keyboard!!! \o/

NMS

2009-05-01 04:57:39 pm

Hi, Dex. I've been meaning to post in this thread and say that your run of Deus Ex is my favorite speedrun ever and one of the things that got me into speedrunning myself. I'll be very happy to see a faster (and higher quality) run.

I watched your old run again recently, looking for ways you could improve it, and I thought I'd share a few ideas in case you haven't thought of them:

Since you ended up with extra energy before, I thought maybe you could skip a few bio cells, but hardly any of them take more than a couple seconds to get. (The 2nd and 3rd commandos in the Lucky Money are probably the worst) So I think the least efficient source of energy you used was the repair bot on Lebedev's plane. You had 2 cells at that point, and you were down to about 25% by the time you got to the top of the NSF warehouse, where there's a cell you didn't take. So I think you could just make it if you skipped the bot.

Speaking of Lebedev, you can kill him through the door with a LAW. I don't know if there's a way to replace the LAW before you need it that takes less time than going to the top floor of the plane for the key, but maybe you do. There's one in the building connected to the hangar, but you would have to wait for the slow door to open. (you would also get sniper ammo though)

And speaking of LAWs, you should probably keep an open belt slot for them, to save on opening the inventory. I don't think the lockpick needs to be there, since you only use it once. (And why did you grab a second one from Paul's closet?)

You should be able to make the MJ12 trooper in the catacombs retreat with one shot. Try shooting him in the right arm. Or, if your rifle skill isn't too high, a nonfatal headshot. Should save 5/3 seconds. Smiley

Finally, faster typing would be nice.

I hope this helps. Keep up the good work.

Hi, Dex. I've been meaning to post in this thread and say that your run of Deus Ex is my favorite speedrun ever and one of the things that got me into speedrunning myself. I'll be very happy to see a faster (and higher quality) run.

I watched your old run again recently, looking for ways you could improve it, and I thought I'd share a few ideas in case you haven't thought of them:

Since you ended up with extra energy before, I thought maybe you could skip a few bio cells, but hardly any of them take more than a couple seconds to get. (The 2nd and 3rd commandos in the Lucky Money are probably the worst) So I think the least efficient source of energy you used was the repair bot on Lebedev's plane. You had 2 cells at that point, and you were down to about 25% by the time you got to the top of the NSF warehouse, where there's a cell you didn't take. So I think you could just make it if you skipped the bot.

Speaking of Lebedev, you can kill him through the door with a LAW. I don't know if there's a way to replace the LAW before you need it that takes less time than going to the top floor of the plane for the key, but maybe you do. There's one in the building connected to the hangar, but you would have to wait for the slow door to open. (you would also get sniper ammo though)

And speaking of LAWs, you should probably keep an open belt slot for them, to save on opening the inventory. I don't think the lockpick needs to be there, since you only use it once. (And why did you grab a second one from Paul's closet?)

You should be able to make the MJ12 trooper in the catacombs retreat with one shot. Try shooting him in the right arm. Or, if your rifle skill isn't too high, a nonfatal headshot. Should save 5/3 seconds. :)

Finally, faster typing would be nice.

I hope this helps. Keep up the good work.

Rake

2009-05-01 06:11:56 pm

Problem with the LAW is you need to find another LAW as the current two uses of it are very time saving (skip the entire under ground missile silo and going outside on the boat). You also need to kill Anna so I don't know how that goes with killing him through the door.

I will probably look at an SS run once I free up some time which won't be for at least a month. I was playing a bit a little while a go and I'm fairly confident up to the end of HK but I need to do a lot of route planning for Paris and those areas which will likely be the worst parts and has some of Dex's more fancy tricks in them that could be very difficult to use not to mention a lot of enemies that Dex just dodged that I will possibly have to kill. I will be trying to keep as many tricks as possible to keep a low time but not all of them are reasonable to use.

NMS

2009-05-01 09:56:59 pm

Yeah, the LAW idea is probably crazy, unless there's another one lying right on his path somewhere before the ship that he didn't pick up. Not as crazy as the idea of an SS run though. Good luck.

dex

2009-05-02 05:41:08 am

Invisible avatar

Quote from NMS:

Hi, Dex. I've been meaning to post in this thread and say that your run of Deus Ex is my favorite speedrun ever and one of the things that got me into speedrunning myself. I'll be very happy to see a faster (and higher quality) run.

Thanks a lot! It's really motivating to hear some words of praise :). I'll get to speedrunning in a few weeks.

Quote from NMS:

I watched your old run again recently, looking for ways you could improve it, and I thought I'd share a few ideas in case you haven't thought of them:

Since you ended up with extra energy before, I thought maybe you could skip a few bio cells, but hardly any of them take more than a couple seconds to get. (The 2nd and 3rd commandos in the Lucky Money are probably the worst) So I think the least efficient source of energy you used was the repair bot on Lebedev's plane. You had 2 cells at that point, and you were down to about 25% by the time you got to the top of the NSF warehouse, where there's a cell you didn't take. So I think you could just make it if you skipped the bot.

Speaking of Lebedev, you can kill him through the door with a LAW. I don't know if there's a way to replace the LAW before you need it that takes less time than going to the top floor of the plane for the key, but maybe you do. There's one in the building connected to the hangar, but you would have to wait for the slow door to open. (you would also get sniper ammo though)

I don't need *more* sniper ammo, and you can only carry one LAW (I already have one in my possession, and between the airport and the boat there is no other one on the way, I believe). And I have a new tactic for the airplane which will be faster than anything else that lets me kill Anna nicely would be, AND it involves going down near the repairbot, might as well use it :P. Devised that one long ago. And I skip many biocells already, don't worry, and the repairbot on Lebedev's plane is actually not the least efficient energy source even in the old run, and moreso in the new run, where I'll be near it whether I want to use it or not. Smiley

Quote from NMS:

And speaking of LAWs, you should probably keep an open belt slot for them, to save on opening the inventory. I don't think the lockpick needs to be there, since you only use it once. (And why did you grab a second one from Paul's closet?)

Lockpick gets onto the belt because it gets picked up whether I like it or not in segment 2 (convo). If you look at the current run, you'll see LAW is in an inventory slot before the cell mission, and gets moved because of the glitch that's used in the cell. However, there's apparently a trick to save the stuff without doing that inventory glitch, so if it works out LAW should be in the slot. However, that won't really save me two inventory visits - since I need to do the inventory stacking glitch with the LAW.

I grabbed the second lockpick because the old run is atrocious.

Quote from NMS:

You should be able to make the MJ12 trooper in the catacombs retreat with one shot. Try shooting him in the right arm. Or, if your rifle skill isn't too high, a nonfatal headshot. Should save 5/3 seconds. Smiley

Yes, I hoped for such a possibility there, thanks for the confirmation.

Quote from NMS:

Finally, faster typing would be nice.

Yes, the worst flaw in my old run... sadly, I'm a pretty poor typist (not exactly a good quality for a programmer, booyah). I will definitely try to improve that, though. Smiley

Quote from NMS:

I hope this helps. Keep up the good work.

Pointing out flaws is always helpful, and thanks.

[quote="NMS"]
Hi, Dex. I've been meaning to post in this thread and say that your run of Deus Ex is my favorite speedrun ever and one of the things that got me into speedrunning myself. I'll be very happy to see a faster (and higher quality) run.[/quote]
Thanks a lot! It's really motivating to hear some words of praise :). I'll get to speedrunning in a few weeks.
[quote="NMS"]I watched your old run again recently, looking for ways you could improve it, and I thought I'd share a few ideas in case you haven't thought of them:

Since you ended up with extra energy before, I thought maybe you could skip a few bio cells, but hardly any of them take more than a couple seconds to get. (The 2nd and 3rd commandos in the Lucky Money are probably the worst) So I think the least efficient source of energy you used was the repair bot on Lebedev's plane. You had 2 cells at that point, and you were down to about 25% by the time you got to the top of the NSF warehouse, where there's a cell you didn't take. So I think you could just make it if you skipped the bot.

Speaking of Lebedev, you can kill him through the door with a LAW. I don't know if there's a way to replace the LAW before you need it that takes less time than going to the top floor of the plane for the key, but maybe you do. There's one in the building connected to the hangar, but you would have to wait for the slow door to open. (you would also get sniper ammo though)[/quote]
I don't need *more* sniper ammo, and you can only carry one LAW (I already have one in my possession, and between the airport and the boat there is no other one on the way, I believe). And I have a new tactic for the airplane which will be faster than anything else that lets me kill Anna nicely would be, AND it involves going down near the repairbot, might as well use it :P. Devised that one long ago. And I skip many biocells already, don't worry, and the repairbot on Lebedev's plane is actually not the least efficient energy source even in the old run, and moreso in the new run, where I'll be near it whether I want to use it or not. :)

[quote="NMS"]And speaking of LAWs, you should probably keep an open belt slot for them, to save on opening the inventory. I don't think the lockpick needs to be there, since you only use it once. (And why did you grab a second one from Paul's closet?)[/quote]
Lockpick gets onto the belt because it gets picked up whether I like it or not in segment 2 (convo). If you look at the current run, you'll see LAW is in an inventory slot before the cell mission, and gets moved because of the glitch that's used in the cell. However, there's apparently a trick to save the stuff without doing that inventory glitch, so if it works out LAW should be in the slot. However, that won't really save me two inventory visits - since I need to do the inventory stacking glitch with the LAW.

I grabbed the second lockpick because the old run is atrocious.

[quote="NMS"]You should be able to make the MJ12 trooper in the catacombs retreat with one shot. Try shooting him in the right arm. Or, if your rifle skill isn't too high, a nonfatal headshot. Should save 5/3 seconds. :)[/quote]
Yes, I hoped for such a possibility there, thanks for the confirmation.

[quote="NMS"]Finally, faster typing would be nice.[/quote]
Yes, the worst flaw in my old run... sadly, I'm a pretty poor typist (not exactly a good quality for a programmer, booyah). I will definitely try to improve that, though. :)

[quote="NMS"]I hope this helps. Keep up the good work.[/quote]
Pointing out flaws is always helpful, and thanks.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2009-05-02 06:24:46 am

2009-05-02 06:12:20 am

Two random thoughts:
* Does copy-paste work for usernames and passwords? Tongue

* Your strategy for Lebedev involves going down to the repair bot? I figure you're probably going to blow him up through the floor somehow then?
* If you're not already doing this, consider grabbing large items like the flamethrower early to get them on the belt so that without going into the inventory you can drop them and free inventory space and a belt slot for other large items like GEP gun and LAWs later. I would be aiming for a plan that avoids ever having to enter the inventory to move or select items.

Edit: Nevermind, just started rewatching the old run and saw that there's too many items you actually use for this to be possible.

Rake

2009-05-02 07:43:59 am

I both like and loathe the mystery of the new run. It sounds like you have some interesting tricks lined up for this new run so I'll be interested in seeing what crazy tricks you can pull out considering there has been little input by the community on new tricks at least you've been finding them, maybe I should start looking a little closer while I start playing again.

NMS

2009-05-02 01:00:02 pm

I can't imagine how going down to the cargo level of the plane is faster... unless... you run up the closed ramp and grenade clip through the ceiling somehow? Then kill Anna and break the doors with one LAM? That would be awesome.

And I figured you had a reason for that time you opened the inventory and dragged the LAW to where it was already, but I didn't know what it was. It allows items to stack on top of the LAW?

Abaddon

2009-05-02 03:00:53 pm

Heyyy... wait.. i don't know you. Don't confuse me

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Two random thoughts:
* Does copy-paste work for usernames and passwords? Tongue

* Your strategy for Lebedev involves going down to the repair bot? I figure you're probably going to blow him up through the floor somehow then?

Copy&Pase does not work iirc, since you don't have an entry field. Only the buttons and the display.

You have to go to the Bot anyway to discover the last Ambrosia barrels.

dex

2009-05-02 03:09:31 pm

Invisible avatar

Quote from Rake:

I both like and loathe the mystery of the new run. It sounds like you have some interesting tricks lined up for this new run so I'll be interested in seeing what crazy tricks you can pull out considering there has been little input by the community on new tricks at least you've been finding them, maybe I should start looking a little closer while I start playing again.

There's a helluva lot of minimal cuts - I'm the self-proclaimed master of those, after all ;). There are also many planning improvements. Little tricks were my game in the old run too - most people submitted a few large cuts (pc600 brought the LI trick to our attention, and found the clipping through glass, for example), but working the specifics out, finding many small cuts and finally planning the run was mostly done by me... not many people know that before the Deus Ex thread was hotly debated, I've made my own run based on Thrull's run, not knowing any of the new tricks. I managed a time of 1:09 or so, which, considering I was a noob speedrunner, is quite good :). I had quite a few tricks thought up during that run already.

Quote:

I can't imagine how going down to the cargo level of the plane is faster... unless... you run up the closed ramp and grenade clip through the ceiling somehow? Then kill Anna and break the doors with one LAM? That would be awesome.

Well, the problem with killing Lebedev with a LAW would be the necessity to go into a convo with Anna (remember, she spawns right near the door!), then killing her after skipping the convo, which would probably be very clumsy... And, if I remember correctly, you need to at least set off a flag 'found ambrosia' by going down to the cargo hold, though with the way DX works, it wouldn't be impossible to break that requirement. Smiley

So yeah, I'm going with what is probably the fastest possible tactic.

[quote="Rake"]
I both like and loathe the mystery of the new run.  It sounds like you have some interesting tricks lined up for this new run so I'll be interested in seeing what crazy tricks you can pull out considering there has been little input by the community on new tricks at least you've been finding them, maybe I should start looking a little closer while I start playing again.
[/quote]
There's a helluva lot of minimal cuts - I'm the self-proclaimed master of those, after all ;). There are also many planning improvements. Little tricks were my game in the old run too - most people submitted a few large cuts (pc600 brought the LI trick to our attention, and found the clipping through glass, for example), but working the specifics out, finding many small cuts and finally planning the run was mostly done by me... not many people know that before the Deus Ex thread was hotly debated, I've made my own run based on Thrull's run, not knowing any of the new tricks. I managed a time of 1:09 or so, which, considering I was a noob speedrunner, is quite good :). I had quite a few tricks thought up during that run already.

[quote author=NMS]I can't imagine how going down to the cargo level of the plane is faster... unless... you run up the closed ramp and grenade clip through the ceiling somehow? Then kill Anna and break the doors with one LAM? That would be awesome.[/quote]
Well, the problem with killing Lebedev with a LAW would be the necessity to go into a convo with Anna (remember, she spawns right near the door!), then killing her after skipping the convo, which would probably be very clumsy... And, if I remember correctly, you need to at least set off a flag 'found ambrosia' by going down to the cargo hold, though with the way DX works, it wouldn't be impossible to break that requirement. :) So yeah, I'm going with what is probably the fastest possible tactic.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-05-02 03:17:11 pm

I thought finding the ambrosia was optional? The other two barrels are and it's part of the same optional objective. Unless there's some specific trigger tied to that particular barrel which is needed to progress.

dex

2009-05-02 03:22:51 pm

Invisible avatar

Well, I do need the skill points even if it isn't necessary (though I seem to remember it is). My reserve points by the time I get to the boat right now are about 200 based on my calculations. Yes, I even need to count skill points. Deus Ex planning 101 ;).

NMS

2009-05-02 10:08:41 pm

Just checked. It's optional. But if you absolutely need the points, I guess it doesn't matter.

AgentSmithereens

2009-05-03 03:54:54 am

Good luck dex, good to see you're still working on it Smiley

And I can confirm that it is possible to copy and paste in DX. If you go to your goals/notes screen, you can highlight the text, press Ctrl+C to copy and then Ctrl+V to paste where you want it. I don't know whether that would be useful but it might be worth a go with the longer logins, e.g. 'root' / 'reindeerflotilla'.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-05-03 04:30:00 am

Sweet.

I'd say it's always worth it. Have the longest word you need to type on the clipboard before beginning each segment. (I presume that if you copy it from notepad before loading the game, you can paste it in-game?)

dex

2009-05-03 07:41:12 am

Invisible avatar

That's pretty lame, to be honest. I mean, people were whining that I *memorised* the codes and logins. Besides, it's using stuff you've never done in the course of the game, which makes it even more lame, and worse yet, akin to a segment inconsistency - the login would end up in the clipboard out of nowhere, never actually done in the course of the run. I mean, I could script the entire menu screens in AHK and achieve the same effect - and what would that accomplish? What kind of a skill would it show? More importantly, how would it reflect on the quality of the run? I'm not interested in cutting off a few seconds just for the cutting off a few seconds' sake. There seems to be a misconception that lower digits on the game page == better run, a misconception I abhor. Yes, it is generally true, but give me an unscripted 0:35 in HL over a scripted 0:31 any day! I tend to prefer a more entertaining run with better planning and better execution - not one using scripts or shady tricks. As the great prophet Nolan Pflug once said, "Remember this is all for fun & show anyway, don't piss people off by trying to be something you're not.". I am a poor typist; doesn't mean I'm gonna jump over this 'hurdle' by copy-pasting the logins. No, I'm going to *type faster*, now that's a novel way to approach the flaw in my run!

I doubt that would even be accepted, since that's pretty much an inconsistency. Try using that in a single segment. You can't - unless you want to spend the time to type something out anyway. Now, I might think about using that trick ONCE in the entire game - during the NSF warehouse sequence. The password is 'revolution' on two computers in a row. I'll think about copying the password from the first terminal and pasting it to the second one - it is a verifiable, consistent and clever way of using what the game offers. Not in any other situation, though.

Finally, a little excerpt from an IRC conversation I just have to post:
<ZenicReverie> dex: make a video of copying and pasting one letter at a time, then say nope, it's slower...

Quote:

Just checked. It's optional. But if you absolutely need the points, I guess it doesn't matter.

I'm afraid getting the points there will be necessary, and I don't have a LAW to spare anyway.

That's pretty lame, to be honest. I mean, people were whining that I *memorised* the codes and logins. Besides, it's using stuff you've never done in the course of the game, which makes it even more lame, and worse yet, akin to a segment inconsistency - the login would end up in the clipboard out of nowhere, never actually done in the course of the run. I mean, I could script the entire menu screens in AHK and achieve the same effect - and what would that accomplish? What kind of a skill would it show? More importantly, how would it reflect on the quality of the run? I'm not interested in cutting off a few seconds just for the cutting off a few seconds' sake. There seems to be a misconception that lower digits on the game page == better run, a misconception I abhor. Yes, it is generally true, but give me an unscripted 0:35 in HL over a scripted 0:31 any day! I tend to prefer a more entertaining run with better planning and better execution - not one using scripts or shady tricks. As the great prophet Nolan Pflug once said, "Remember this is all for fun & show anyway, don't piss people off by trying to be something you're not.". I am a poor typist; doesn't mean I'm gonna jump over this 'hurdle' by copy-pasting the logins. No, I'm going to *type faster*, now that's a novel way to approach the flaw in my run!

I doubt that would even be accepted, since that's pretty much an inconsistency. Try using that in a single segment. You can't - unless you want to spend the time to type something out anyway. Now, I might think about using that trick ONCE in the entire game - during the NSF warehouse sequence. The password is 'revolution' on two computers in a row. I'll think about copying the password from the first terminal and pasting it to the second one - it is a verifiable, consistent and clever way of using what the game offers. Not in any other situation, though.

Finally, a little excerpt from an IRC conversation I just have to post:
<ZenicReverie> dex: make a video of copying and pasting one letter at a time, then say nope, it's slower...

[quote]Just checked. It's optional. But if you absolutely need the points, I guess it doesn't matter.[/quote]
I'm afraid getting the points there will be necessary, and I don't have a LAW to spare anyway.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-05-03 09:21:13 am

Segment inconsistencies exist in other runs; e.g., the trick of loading a replay from prior play in the GTA3 100% runs to force rare vehicles to be loaded back into memory to make them more likely to spawn. So it would certainly be accepted. However, I agree with you that the scripts in the Half Life run were deeply lame and can also appreciate that it's a bonus if a segmented run does nothing that isn't theoretically acheivable single-segment (though of course for many runs saving and loading messes things up, e.g. save warping, and in those games a totally different set of principles must apply by necessity). I still maintain that the use of tricks like the foot-keyboard would actually add to the run when you read about them in the runner's comments instead of detracting from it, though.

As for copy-pasting, if your concern is purely to avoid segment inconsistency, it would be legitimate to paste in exactly one login or password over the course of the game that had been precopied from an outside source - you could do that in a SS too. You may still think this is lame because the time spent typing and copying the username or password in notepad isn't timed, but I would rebuke that by pointing out that the same thing can be said about the main menu and character creation screen. It's your call, though, of course, and since it already looks like this run is never going to be beaten you have the luxury of being able to make the run you want to make and which is best by your own rules - not merely the best run by the rules of SDA - without fear of someone else obsoleting it just by not imposing the restrictions on themselves that you did.

Segment inconsistencies exist in other runs; e.g., the trick of loading a replay from prior play in the GTA3 100% runs to force rare vehicles to be loaded back into memory to make them more likely to spawn. So it would certainly be accepted. However, I agree with you that the scripts in the Half Life run were deeply lame and can also appreciate that it's a bonus if a segmented run does nothing that isn't theoretically acheivable single-segment (though of course for many runs saving and loading messes things up, e.g. save warping, and in those games a totally different set of principles must apply by necessity). I still maintain that the use of tricks like the foot-keyboard would actually add to the run when you read about them in the runner's comments instead of detracting from it, though.

As for copy-pasting, if your concern is purely to avoid segment inconsistency, it would be legitimate to paste in exactly one login or password over the course of the game that had been precopied from an outside source - you could do that in a SS too. You may still think this is lame because the time spent typing and copying the username or password in notepad isn't timed, but I would rebuke that by pointing out that the same thing can be said about the main menu and character creation screen. It's your call, though, of course, and since it already looks like this run is never going to be beaten you have the luxury of being able to make the run you want to make and which is best by your own rules - not merely the best run by the rules of SDA - without fear of someone else obsoleting it just by not imposing the restrictions on themselves that you did.

LLCoolDave

2009-05-03 10:39:36 am

Besides, a run whose sole improvement over the current record was by copy and pasting passwords would get an instant reject by me for douchbaggery.

Hugo123

Edit history:

Hugo123: 2009-05-18 06:51:00 pm

2009-05-18 04:51:17 pm

I just watched the current run again and can't await the new one. (Saw it already 3 times. Onr of the best games + one of the best speedrun = <3.)

Does anyone know where to buy the game except Amazon? (Not the dowload only version. I want to hold it in my hands. :D)

EDIT: I just remembered something.
Why don't you activate/deactive health very fast to save energy? (Did that get fixed in a later version as I always played it unpatched and found no changelog for the patch.)

NMS

2009-05-18 08:58:53 pm

Doesn't work in my version (1.0.3 for Mac). It only heals you after regen has been on for a bit.

AgentSmithereens

2009-05-20 10:13:20 am

Did we ever get to the bottom of the Speed Enhancement glitch where, if you've got no electricity, if you time your jump just right after you press the aug key, then you can jump as if you had the aug turned on? When I was playing TNM a while ago I got quite good at it, and obviously if you could master it then you could save loads of time as you wouldn't need to look for bio cells.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-05-20 11:44:32 am

AgentSmithereens makes a very good point indeed. IIRC you can turn on speed for a couple of frames before it deactivates when you're on 0 energy. I'm pretty sure I used to do exactly what he describes when I played DX, but it's been a while.

dex

Edit history:

dex: 2009-05-23 03:52:55 am

2009-05-23 03:47:47 am

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Quote from AgentSmithereens:

Did we ever get to the bottom of the Speed Enhancement glitch where, if you've got no electricity, if you time your jump just right after you press the aug key, then you can jump as if you had the aug turned on? When I was playing TNM a while ago I got quite good at it, and obviously if you could master it then you could save loads of time as you wouldn't need to look for bio cells.

It's usually a lot slower than just having the aug on or doing bunnyhopping with non-zero aug energy (just try it! after 2 bunnyhops you'll either fudge up, mostly because you're, you know, human, and therefore not frame perfect as the glitch requires; or you're gonna see a noticeable decrease in speed, due to ground friction (actually, that sometimes happens if I try to use the aug for too short even with enough energy!)). Since in the new plan I optimise biocell pickups as much as possible, it seems very counterproductive to try using that glitch (the reason it works is that the checks whether you have enough energy don't happen every frame). It's good in a pinch last bunnyhop/if you're very close to a repair-bot. The energy savings due to the glitch would be minuscule, though -> there aren't that many places where you actually can bunnyhop for a long while and have empty energy. I doubt it would save half a cell over the course of the entire game.

And yes, the health thing got fixed, you need to wait for the 'first heal', which requires you to wait a bit. And I'm not gonna play unpatched, since the Hong-Kong glitch which saves like 2-3 minutes is only in the GOTY (go figure).

[quote="AgentSmithereens"]
Did we ever get to the bottom of the Speed Enhancement glitch where, if you've got no electricity, if you time your jump just right after you press the aug key, then you can jump as if you had the aug turned on? When I was playing TNM a while ago I got quite good at it, and obviously if you could master it then you could save loads of time as you wouldn't need to look for bio cells.
[/quote]
It's usually a lot slower than just having the aug on or doing bunnyhopping with non-zero aug energy (just try it! after 2 bunnyhops you'll either fudge up, mostly because you're, you know, human, and therefore not frame perfect as the glitch requires; or you're gonna see a noticeable decrease in speed, due to ground friction (actually, that sometimes happens if I try to use the aug for too short even with enough energy!)). Since in the new plan I optimise biocell pickups as much as possible, it seems very counterproductive to try using that glitch (the reason it works is that the checks whether you have enough energy don't happen every frame). It's good in a pinch last bunnyhop/if you're very close to a repair-bot. The energy savings due to the glitch would be minuscule, though -> there aren't that many places where you actually can bunnyhop for a long while and have empty energy. I doubt it would save half a cell over the course of the entire game.

And yes, the health thing got fixed, you need to wait for the 'first heal', which requires you to wait a bit. And I'm not gonna play unpatched, since the Hong-Kong glitch which saves like 2-3 minutes is only in the GOTY (go figure).