Descent 2 speedrun

2007-11-03 02:32:05 pm

I'm making a Descent 2 speedrun, any chance it might be added here if it's good enough?

I noticed there is Descent 1 speedrun in youtube and I wondered if anyone has made such a run on Descent 2. I couldn't find it anywhere so I figured I could do it myself.

The Descent 1 speedrun starts every level "from fresh", so the weapons don't carry over to the next level. I don't see the point behind this one so I'm making it the normal way.

I have recorded few runs already, but would like to hear if there are certain rules about this game so if I'm doing something wrong I don't have to rerecord everything. Like, do you need the demo files of each run? Or is the video file enough? Can I use d2x-xl (well I'm going to use it anyway, since I can't get it working any other way)?

Let me know what you guys think.

-Philo

Thread title:

NONOCE

2007-11-03 05:25:47 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

This game was fun in cooperative,

- Hey man, I have a strange feeling we already came here before.

- Yeah, you're looking at things up side down 8)

ShadowWraith

2007-11-03 09:38:37 pm

.

Demo files aren't required but are helpful, so long as you have a video recording of each level. I'm not aware of what d2x-xl is, could you elaborate on that? If it's a source port or emulator then I'm afraid it's not permitted. Also I don't think there are any special rules for this game, so you're okay there.

Lag.Com

2007-11-04 03:05:51 am

sda loyalist

Yeah, if you want it accepted at SDA, you need to use the original exe. That's why Drew's (and mine, before he beat them all) Descent run times aren't up here.

I fully endorse this run, Descent 2 is just as fun as the original, but with extra gadgets!

ninetigerr

2007-11-05 02:51:20 am

Ooo I love Descent! Smiley

Phenomenal game. But yes you've gotta use the *real* app to do your run. I'd totally watch it! Just my supportive 2¢.

stx-Vile

Edit history:

stx-Vile: 2007-11-05 10:49:46 pm

2007-11-05 10:48:01 pm

The man made of sticks

Quote:

The Descent 1 speedrun starts every level "from fresh", so the weapons don't carry over to the next level. I don't see the point behind this one so I'm making it the normal way.

Partly because making a single segment is less fun for me... I'd rather make a individual levels table and then think about a single segment since earlier levels can be picked up later on and improved with new ideas, whether based on viewer feedback or sudden revelations on the part of the runner. Plus, I was just learning how to trichord so I didn't want the first couple levels to look a lot worse than the final ones. Smiley

In single segment, the only advantage I can see (off the top of my head) is not having to find the fusion cannon again and again for quick reactor kills.

Good luck on Descent 2... it's a great game and hopefully your runs will be accepted here. The Descent 1 runs were uploaded to YouTube because they were recorded using a source port.

Lag.Com

2007-11-06 01:00:44 pm

sda loyalist

As Drew mentions, weapon finding will be the main thing. I haven't played Descent 2 as heavily as the first game, but I seem to remember there are more robots around. If you can find an early spreadfire/plasma in a secret, it might be well worth going out of your way for it, to make the later levels quicker. This is common speedrun planning, but just thought I'd say.

Also, get the hang of trichording, you will be doing it a lot. Smiley

Psonar

2007-11-09 09:19:00 pm

Long live SF64!

What does trichording mean? Something to do with the different camera options (front, rear, etc.)?

I was half considering working on this game over the summer... I have an old CD copy of it someone gave me and I've yet to even play it all the way through. For some reason I can never seem to focus on Descent 2 - I always ended up playing something else and not finishing the game. I suppose I wasn't honestly interested enough in the gameplay to play it seriously.

If someone really wants to do a run, then I'd be willing to send them my original CD copy. Just let me know and we'll work something out - if it's that rare to have an original copy.

Lag.Com

2007-11-10 12:08:45 am

sda loyalist

Trichording is Descent's version of diagonal running. If holding forwards and a sideways direction on Doom, you move faster than if you just hold forwards, but you must change your direction of movement to compensate. Descent allows this in all three dimensions, e.g. hold Up, Forward and Right, to gain a significant boost of speed. Watch Drew's runs on youtube for lots of examples.

Philo

2007-11-15 07:22:55 am

Thank you all for the feedback.

I added few videos on youtube:

They are not absolute perfect runs but quite OK I think. Also I need to edit the final videos to get rid of all the loading screens etc.

Comments on Level 1:
Pretty straight forward. There is afterburner in this level too but it's faster to get on level 2. I picked up smart missile after the red key which took some time, but I reckon it will be worth it later on.

Comments on Level 2:
The d2x-xl port that I'm using has a bug (maybe some setting to get rid of this?) so that's why the force field doesn't seem to go away at the red key but it actually does. I got lucky that the thief opened the next two doors for me, the first one is really unlocked with a button which takes a second or so to shoot. There could have been some trichording done nearing the end but I'm quite pleased with the run anyway.

Quote:

I'd rather make a individual levels table and then think about a single segment since earlier levels can be picked up later on and improved with new ideas, whether based on viewer feedback or sudden revelations on the part of the runner.

In single segment, the only advantage I can see (off the top of my head) is not having to find the fusion cannon again and again for quick reactor kills.

Yes I agree on this point that it's easier to improve the later levels if do every level separately. Single segment run on Descent 2 is quite different than on Descent 1 tho. You can get _much_ quicker times this way. The biggest part being afterburner. Also I think the robots are harder so having bigger guns makes a lot of difference.

And I like the idea of having to make plans for many levels ahead. For example guided missile is a way to cut some curners in few levels.

Hopefully I will be adding more levels soon.

-Philo

Thank you all for the feedback.

I added few videos on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t564ilW65UM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sliCJ46-lsw

They are not absolute perfect runs but quite OK I think. Also I need to edit the final videos to get rid of all the loading screens etc.

Comments on Level 1:
Pretty straight forward. There is afterburner in this level too but it's faster to get on level 2. I picked up smart missile after the red key which took some time, but I reckon it will be worth it later on.

Comments on Level 2:
The d2x-xl port that I'm using has a bug (maybe some setting to get rid of this?) so that's why the force field doesn't seem to go away at the red key but it actually does. I got lucky that the thief opened the next two doors for me, the first one is really unlocked with a button which takes a second or so to shoot. There could have been some trichording done nearing the end but I'm quite pleased with the run anyway.

[quote]

I'd rather make a individual levels table and then think about a single segment since earlier levels can be picked up later on and improved with new ideas, whether based on viewer feedback or sudden revelations on the part of the runner.

In single segment, the only advantage I can see (off the top of my head) is not having to find the fusion cannon again and again for quick reactor kills.[/quote]

Yes I agree on this point that it's easier to improve the later levels if do every level separately. Single segment run on Descent 2 is quite different than on Descent 1 tho. You can get _much_ quicker times this way. The biggest part being afterburner. Also I think the robots are harder so having bigger guns makes a lot of difference.

And I like the idea of having to make plans for many levels ahead. For example guided missile is a way to cut some curners in few levels.

Hopefully I will be adding more levels soon.

-Philo

#endgame

2007-11-17 11:31:18 pm

ZZT > *

I don't know Descent 2 well enough to offer advice. I'm just here to offer encouragement. I'd love to see this done and on SDA.

Avder

2007-11-18 12:27:09 am

Personal Text!

Just noticed this thread. I helped out a bit with the D1 stuff before that died out, so I guess I'll help here, even tho I hate D2 compared to D1 and D3.

A couple comments: D2X-XL might not be entirely representative of what D2 single player is like on the original version because of how heavily modified it is. I can tell you right now that the original D2 didnt have an inventory on the side, nor healhbars (are those healthbars?) above the enemies. There is an actual windows executeable that came with the game, however it suffers from a bug when its FPS exceed 150, which it likely will on any modern machine. I dont know if it will be possible to fraps the original at all because of that bug. That bug is actually one of the main things that D2x and its predecessor D1x were designee to compensate for: both of those EXEs have framecapping built in. Descent 3 would actually be the most optimal choice of Descent for speedrunning, unless the SDA staff wants to somehow work with the developers of D2x or D1x (I doubt they would, it would be a bit of a pain), to get some kind of assurance that its representative of the original games.

Would it be possible to run this in a program like DOS box and fraps that? That might be one way to use the original exes.

Anyhoo, a few questions:
-What difficulty level are these on?
-What kind of controls are you using?
-Is autoleveling turned off? From your first video it kinda looks like its still on, but I cant tell for sure.

Also it looks like you still need a little work on trichording. If you do it right, you cant hardly see anything in front of you Cheesy

Just noticed this thread.  I helped out a bit with the D1 stuff before that died out, so I guess I'll help here, even tho I hate D2 compared to D1 and D3.

A couple comments: D2X-XL might not be entirely representative of what D2 single player is like on the original version because of how heavily modified it is.  I can tell you right now that the original D2 didnt have an inventory on the side, nor healhbars (are those healthbars?) above the enemies.  There is an actual windows executeable that came with the game, however it suffers from a bug when its FPS exceed 150, which it likely will on any modern machine.  I dont know if it will be possible to fraps the original at all because of that bug.  That bug is actually one of the main things that D2x and its predecessor D1x were designee to compensate for: both of those EXEs have framecapping built in.  Descent 3 would actually be the most optimal choice of Descent for speedrunning, unless the SDA staff wants to somehow work with the developers of D2x or D1x (I doubt they would, it would be a bit of a pain), to get some kind of assurance that its representative of the original games.

Would it be possible to run this in a program like DOS box and fraps that?  That might be one way to use the original exes.

Anyhoo, a few questions:
-What difficulty level are these on?
-What kind of controls are you using?
-Is autoleveling turned off?  From your first video it kinda looks like its still on, but I cant tell for sure.

Also it looks like you still need a little work on trichording.  If you do it right, you cant hardly see anything in front of you :D

Lag.Com

2007-11-18 01:10:52 am

sda loyalist

D1X is pretty damn close to the original. I've looked through the source myself.

Avder

2007-11-18 02:49:45 am

Personal Text!

Probably. Most of the enhancements made for D1x were multiplayer related such as integrating D2's short packets technology, a packets per second selecter, and other things.

One difference tho is that homing weapons home better or worse as your framerate gets higher or lower. As such, it wasnt uncommon in multiplayer for people to framecap their client exceptionally low so as to make dodging homers easier.

Philo

2007-11-18 03:18:17 pm

Quote:

I can tell you right now that the original D2 didnt have an inventory on the side, nor healhbars (are those healthbars?) above the enemies.

Yep that is true. Those inventories and the healthbars are optional in d2x-xl. I can take those off if it makes you happier. Wink

Anyway, the gameplay is all what matters and it is exactly the same as the original.

Quote:

Anyhoo, a few questions:
-What difficulty level are these on?
-What kind of controls are you using?
-Is autoleveling turned off? From your first video it kinda looks like its still on, but I cant tell for sure.

Also it looks like you still need a little work on trichording. If you do it right, you cant hardly see anything in front of you Cheesy

Difficulty level is hotshot. I'm using Wingman Extreme Digital that is a bit broken, which makes this task harder than it could be. I bought a new Wingman Extreme 3D also, but it isn't as good as the old one. Autoleveling is of course turned off. Smiley

Yep I'm just learning to trichord (the broken joystick doesn't make it easier), so it is far from perfect. Although in many cases I must be face front because of the robots and doors etc. Also if I'm facing the wall the whole video it's less fun to watch. Smiley

[quote]
I can tell you right now that the original D2 didnt have an inventory on the side, nor healhbars (are those healthbars?) above the enemies.  
[/quote]

Yep that is true. Those inventories and the healthbars are optional in d2x-xl. I can take those off if it makes you happier. ;) Anyway, the gameplay is all what matters and it is exactly the same as the original.

[quote]
Anyhoo, a few questions:
-What difficulty level are these on?
-What kind of controls are you using?
-Is autoleveling turned off?  From your first video it kinda looks like its still on, but I cant tell for sure.

Also it looks like you still need a little work on trichording.  If you do it right, you cant hardly see anything in front of you :D[/quote]

Difficulty level is hotshot. I'm using Wingman Extreme Digital that is a bit broken, which makes this task harder than it could be. I bought a new Wingman Extreme 3D also, but it isn't as good as the old one. Autoleveling is of course turned off. :)

Yep I'm just learning to trichord (the broken joystick doesn't make it easier), so it is far from perfect. Although in many cases I must be face front because of the robots and doors etc. Also if I'm facing the wall the whole video it's less fun to watch. :)

Avder

2007-11-19 04:43:09 pm

Personal Text!

Quote:

Yep that is true. Those inventories and the healthbars are optional in d2x-xl. I can take those off if it makes you happier. Wink

Anyway, the gameplay is all what matters and it is exactly the same as the original.

Difficulty level is hotshot. I'm using Wingman Extreme Digital that is a bit broken, which makes this task harder than it could be. I bought a new Wingman Extreme 3D also, but it isn't as good as the old one. Autoleveling is of course turned off. Smiley

Yep I'm just learning to trichord (the broken joystick doesn't make it easier), so it is far from perfect. Although in many cases I must be face front because of the robots and doors etc. Also if I'm facing the wall the whole video it's less fun to watch. Smiley

Just because it looks the same doesnt mean it is the same. Since both D1 and D2 have their source released to the public, it means literally thatanyone can rewrite the game and compile their own version, which is exactly what the D1x and D2x projects are all about: different versions, specifically with enhanced features. And cheating was in fact an issue within the descent multiplayer community. One high profile incidence of someone using a modified client led to a detailed examination of in-game demo recordings and a ban on ladder play because the player in question reduced the damage his ship would take through a modified version of descent. Hence I feel concernes over what versions are used are very much valid in this case. It would be most insulting to me, as someone who played multiplayer descent for several years, to see someone do a single player run and later find out that they were using some sort of hacked client, either because the tricks werent replicateable in an official or semi official version, or some other reason. Hence the only version I know of that could be used for this Descnet 2 is the official windows version, which I dont think had its source released (it was the dos version that did, but this should be easily checkable if I ask a few questions to people I still talk to).

I am by no means saying "stop working on your run", I'm saying that a means of verification must be worked on in order for your runs to be worthy of being considered official.

As for technique with trichording, just because you have to face forward due to robots and the like doesnt mean you have to always be facing forward. All energy weapons except the omega just keep flying for a more than adequate distance if you look away. Youre going to have to be turning and chording in all 3 directions at once in order to keep your speed up, especially without the afterburner.

As for choice of joystick, just make sure it has a twist axis and you should be fine.

[quote]

Yep that is true. Those inventories and the healthbars are optional in d2x-xl. I can take those off if it makes you happier. ;) Anyway, the gameplay is all what matters and it is exactly the same as the original.

Difficulty level is hotshot. I'm using Wingman Extreme Digital that is a bit broken, which makes this task harder than it could be. I bought a new Wingman Extreme 3D also, but it isn't as good as the old one. Autoleveling is of course turned off. :)

Yep I'm just learning to trichord (the broken joystick doesn't make it easier), so it is far from perfect. Although in many cases I must be face front because of the robots and doors etc. Also if I'm facing the wall the whole video it's less fun to watch. :)[/quote]

Just because it looks the same doesnt mean it is the same.  Since both D1 and D2 have their source released to the public, it means literally thatanyone can rewrite the game and compile their own version, which is exactly what the D1x and D2x projects are all about: different versions, specifically with enhanced features.  And cheating was in fact an issue within the descent multiplayer community.  One high profile incidence of someone using a modified client led to a detailed examination of in-game demo recordings and a ban on ladder play because the player in question reduced the damage his ship would take through a modified version of descent.  Hence I feel concernes over what versions are used are very much valid in this case.  It would be most insulting to me, as someone who played multiplayer descent for several years, to see someone do a single player run and later find out that they were using some sort of hacked client, either because the tricks werent replicateable in an official or semi official version, or some other reason.  Hence the only version I know of that could be used for this Descnet 2 is the official windows version, which I dont think had its source released (it was the dos version that did, but this should be easily checkable if I ask a few questions to people I still talk to).

I am by no means saying "stop working on your run", I'm saying that a means of verification must be worked on in order for your runs to be worthy of being considered official.

As for technique with trichording, just because you have to face forward due to robots and the like doesnt mean you have to always be facing forward.  All energy weapons except the omega just keep flying for a more than adequate distance if you look away.  Youre going to have to be turning and chording in all 3 directions at once in order to keep your speed up, especially without the afterburner.

As for choice of joystick, just make sure it has a twist axis and you should be fine.

Philo

2007-11-22 08:28:58 am

Quote:

I am by no means saying "stop working on your run", I'm saying that a means of verification must be worked on in order for your runs to be worthy of being considered official.

I understand this of course. I can try if I can get the official version working.

Quote:

As for choice of joystick, just make sure it has a twist axis and you should be fine.

Twist axis for banking? I have always used bank from the keyboard and had no difficulties. I tested banking with twist axis but I thought it was clumsy, so I disabled it. It might go better with some more practise, but banking has never been any problem so I didn't see any good reason to learn to do it with joystick.

I'm trying to find a "new" old Wingman (I haven't found a better joystick for Descent than the old Wingman Extreme Digital that doesn't have the twist axis), then I think I'll be starting this speedrun seriously.