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Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there one more secret level to go and this is technically all finished? Except of course returning to the earlier levels.
The man made of sticks
Correct... and not a moment too soon.  I need a break.
That's for sure, but great job all the same, stx-Vile. Maybe if I keep up my Doom playing, I can master the tri-chording like I used to and challenge some of your times.
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stx-Vile: 2005-09-27 08:22:00 pm
The man made of sticks
I would like to say that in case these demos don't get accepted on SDA, I'm quite happy with the overall results.  I would say the main point of concern is that D1X has advantages that weren't in the original game.  They are the following, aside from graphics updates and technical fixes:

1. D1X lets you decide when to switch to a new weapon upon picking it up, unlike the original game, which forced you to do so.  In original descent, when you pick up a new weapon, the best you could do was immediately hit the key for the weapon you were using so that it just switches back to the weapon you were originally using.  There would be a slight delay before you could fire again.  In the case of missiles, it would switch to them even if you already had those kinds of missiles already.

2. D1X also lets you rebind weapon keys to any other key you desire.  I rebound them to be closer to my movement keys, otherwise having to reach to 0 to switch to the mega missile would have been a bit tricky.

Granted, these are features that really SHOULD have been in the original game, but nevertheless, they aren't.  To avoid completely misrepresenting these runs, I'll conclude by saying that recording in the original Descent would have been more difficult because of these points.  Granted, some levels might have been entirely unaffected since no new weapons were picked up, or perhaps new ones were immediately used, but others were not that way.  The D1X client was picked because it was a better alternative to tracking down a copy of Win98 and setting that crap up again, so it's just a standard that me and Lag adopted when we started this project.

EDIT: or maybe, I could think of this as a treat to myself, since I didn't have Win98 when I recorded the full game Doom2 run in nightmare skill, but no new port was used for it either.  I just recorded the run without sound so that it would run in Win2k and a source port was used to play it back and make the avi. Smiley
The man made of sticks
S3 / Asteroid Robot Factory - 1:19 - AVI

The start was the only trouble spot here, as there are five vulcans (3 regular, 2 cloaked) just outside the start room and the weaponry provided isn't the greatest.  Once the cloak is stolen (which is a lucky affair since the drop is randomly determined) it's a straightforward romp to the exit.  Once again, the secret level reactors are very weak compared to those encountered in the normal levels late in the game, so a single uncharged fusion shot was more than enough to destroy it.

Yay, runs for all thirty levels.  That should provide a good nostalgic trip for anyone who hasn't played this game in a long time. Wink
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slYnki: 2005-09-28 12:58:45 am
This is fabulous. So, Lag said he was going to compile all these into a video and send the runs to Radix? Why wouldn't they go up on SDA? You could just state in your author's comments all the technicalities of your run, and for people to be aware of such things.
The man made of sticks
This is fabulous. So, Lag said he was going to compile all these into a video and send the runs to Radix? Why wouldn't they go up on SDA? You could just state in your author's comments all the technicalities of your run.

I'm not sure what Lag was planning to do with compiling stuff... I assumed it was to just get the total time, or something.  As for going on SDA, I just thought that it was a delicate issue that hasn't really been explored enough.  It's similar to the way emulator runs are not accepted on SDA.  The D1X client is, in essense, an emulator of the original game that lets it run in win32, unless my analogy is incorrect.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
It'd be pretty stupid not to post this on a technicality. The "no emulators" rule wasn't made for these kinds of situations.
The man made of sticks
I guess it is silly, since I'm the only one concerned about it.  Roll Eyes
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slYnki: 2005-09-28 04:05:27 am
Man, this could get submitted right away. It's already timed and verified. But say stx-Vile, you were saying something about "finishing those Doom segments" awhile back in some thread.... what are those exactly? Are you revisiting any of your Doom times? That is after you take your well deserved break @_@;
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stx-Vile: 2005-09-28 04:15:06 am
The man made of sticks
What I had planned to do was convert all inidividual level skill 4 runs for both episodes of Final Doom to AVI, trying to improve them along the way.  That wouldn't require a huge effort from me, since there would be many levels I wouldn't even have to play (times are already considered optimal).
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slYnki: 2005-09-28 04:31:28 am
That's cool. I'm really starting to get back into my Doom speedrunning groove, so if you need any help or better routes or something.... o.o

The funny thing is, is that when I was a kid and kept on playing Descent and Doom, I would sometimes play one more than the other. So I would play Doom more, and when I was about to open a door in Descent, not only would I be upside down because I kept on pressing the shift key, but I would press space on the door, resulting in... well, you know what >_<
The man made of sticks
01 / Lunar Outpost - 0:27 - AVI

I guess this means my own Trainee time is outdated now. Smiley
The man made of sticks
02 / Lunar Scilab - 1:07 - AVI

Seven seconds of improvement on the same route... oh brother.
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Lag.Com: 2005-09-29 12:51:01 pm
sda loyalist
This kind of improvement really does show you how insanely fast tri-chording makes you go.

Although level 2 is kinda luck based.
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stx-Vile: 2005-09-30 04:18:14 am
The man made of sticks
03 / Lunar Military Base - 1:11 - AVI

Six second improvement.  Still quite an annoying level to run since a lot depends on lucky robot cooperation, which still failed at a few points in this run, but it's better off than it was, now.
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stx-Vile: 2005-09-30 04:23:12 am
The man made of sticks
I underestimated just how fortunate I was in that lv04 vid, even though the skill level wasn't as high.  There's a very probability of getting stalled by the clawed robots at the spreadfire room and heading towards the yellow door, neither of which happened in the present run.  The only thing I'd really want to change would be getting hung up just before the reactor room, but meh... gambling for better luck is something I'm tired of doing at the moment.

As such, I believe that my contributions are finished, so thanks for tuning in and offering support and encouragement through these... how long did this stuff take?  Oh god...

Also, if you haven't done so, perhaps its time to give the game another play for old time's sake.  It's a classic. Smiley
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slYnki: 2005-09-30 04:27:41 am
Yeah, I'm playing it a lot more ever since I've been watching these demos. I've been wanting to for the longest time now. I'm starting to get the hang of this tri-chording thing. Excellent, I'm regaining some of my old Descent skills 8). Maybe one day I can challenge some of the records, who knows? I was thinking of something interesting a few moments ago actually. If you fire a smart missle at a wall, it will obviously release the plasma cannon shots out of it. I'm wondering if you shot a smart missle at a wall just as you were leaving a reactor room, would it go for the reactor, thus destroying it while you head for the exit, or would it just aim for the enemy units?

That would be a good strategy in some areas possibly, or maybe just generally using them more to take enemies out from behind a corner.
The man made of sticks
Unfortunately, smart missile bursts ignore the reactor and go for robots.  Even when no robots are around, the smart missile will not target the reactor.  Only one strategy came close to this, which was used for lv10.  The reactor has a super hulk guarding its left and right flank respectively, so I shot the two smart missiles so that they hit the reactor directly in the center.  The plasma globs tried to go for the super hulks, but the reactor was in the way, so it took all of the plasma instead.

In other levels, either the fusion cannon rendered this strategy obsolete, the reactor wasn't in the right position for the strategy to work, or there was better use of the smart missiles... if any appeared on the fastest route, that is.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Skimming through this thread, I'm actually very impressed that people could be as good as they are at this game without knowing about tri-chording. Back in the day, it used to be very useful chasing and evading people using this technique, although of course I didn't know it had a name. Although given the nature of keyboards and locking up, I could only press enough keys to make it more of a bi-chord really. Wink
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slYnki: 2005-10-04 02:37:56 am
stx-Vile, I have a question about your Doom playing and Descent, concerning tri-chording and diagnol running. Do you use the mouse in both of the games with your tri-chording? Unfortunately, all my controls are on the keyboard, which makes it decently difficult to do the diagnol speed. Specifically, I've been running Doom a lot more lately and almost every record on SDA I keep falling 2 seconds short of each one Tongue
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stx-Vile: 2005-10-04 03:03:59 am
The man made of sticks
I do use the combination of keyboard and mouse for running in Doom and Descent.  It has served me well over the past decade (ugh) of PC gaming.  If you have any specific problems with this setup that you would like to address, respond again, as I highly recommend using it.

Granted, it's not required to do well in these games.  There are many Doom players that have finished a 30nm run of Doom2; that is, the entire game from start to finish in Nightmare skill without dying.  One of those players, Chris 'Ryback' Ratcliff, is a keyboard-only player.

Incidentally, if you'd like to see the complete history of Doom2 complete nightmare runs, I happened upon this link.  Props to Opulent for this:
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slYnki: 2005-10-04 03:56:26 am
No problems at all, I was just wondering what you were using. I might check out this mouse thingy later on, but for now I'm the keyboard only type person. I'm starting to get a lot better at the diagnol running. Takes some practice to get used to, but I'm doing ok. Eventually I might consider taking on a few of the Doom records, since I know of ways to improve some of those times.
stx-Vile, may I wonder what setup you use for Descent? Mouselook or not, keys you use, etc.
The run is awesome, and though I've never played Descent  (never even seen it, believe it or not), the run is still very very impressive!
The man made of sticks
Shamelessly borrowed from a previous post:

I use keyboard+mouse as well.  D1X offers some nice gameplay features such as rebinding what keys are the weapons, instead of limiting them to the number keys.  There's no way I'm reaching for the 0 key in the middle of a run.  WASD for the same movement as in Doom or Quake, QR are the bank left and right keys, E and SHIFT are slide up (I liked having the freedom to choose, depending on which way I'm chording) and SPACE is slide down.  The primary weapon keys are left as is, while conc and homing missiles are bound to Z and T respectively.  Yeah, it's a little weird, but I was running out of easily reached keys.  I used to have the rear view bound to the middle mouse button, but changed that to Flare since I never used it (I thought I would have time to care about what was going on behind the ship, at one point... meh).

I jack up the sensitivity in windows as far as it will go just for playing this game (it's set in the middle normally), along with ingame, but I don't touch acceleration... I turn fast enough as is, I think.

Oh yeah, and I don't believe this was a feature in the original game, but D1X lets you set weapon priorities, deciding when to switch to a new weapon when you pick it up.  I turn all of these off and just switch to them manually.

I'm considering redoing some of the weapon keys just thinking about this goofy configuration

Everything remains true, even the weapon keys that I considered changing... meh, I'm lazy.