Demos for verification (particularly HL), run removal request

Spider-Waffle

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Spider-Waffle

Edit history:

Spider-Waffle: 2009-06-11 06:43:18 pm

2009-06-11 05:14:03 pm

Don't think! feeeeeal

Quote from Zhouy:

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

So I need to ask if anyone else experiences large teleports in their demos between level loads?

Me. Why? When you record with fraps with a shitty computer like mine, fraps slows down Half-Life and the level changes in the demos takes longer and a "teleport" is made. Nothing can be done except buying a new computer. At least, this is my case.

You have to accept that not all computers acts the same as yours.

Ah, I was thinking it might be from excessive lag. What if you make your video using the startmovie command that makes a bunch of bmps? Or use a better version of fraps or different program like camtasia that doesn't use so many resources? But more importantly, does your demo teleport like that does it when you just play the demo, or if someone plays it on a better computer?

Zhouy

2009-06-12 01:16:38 am

I'm a Half-Life runner ;)

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

What if you make your video using the startmovie command that makes a bunch of bmps?

Haven't tried but would probably be more work to make the final video..

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

Or use a better version of fraps or different program like camtasia that doesn't use so many resources?

I tried Camtasia and it sucks compared to fraps, much more laggy. However, don't know about the fraps upgrade.

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

But more importantly, does your demo teleport like that does it when you just play the demo, or if someone plays it on a better computer?

The teleport doesn't occur when I play the demo normally. It's when I record it with fraps. Now I don't know if it depends on fraps version or poor computer (or both), I also don't know which version Daniel used and if he uses a good or bad computer. Maybe he can answer that question.

quadrazid

2009-06-12 02:11:43 am

Svart Lyser Tronen

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

So I need to ask if anyone else experiences large teleports in their demos between level loads?

I tried making a SS-demo in HAzard course, then record with fraps trough a leveltransition. And NO lag or teleport for me, just slightly lower fps in the beginning of the new map.

But I guess it is like Zhouy says, it may depend on computer, and I also think it depends on wat resolution you have in-game and the FPS you record with.

And I fully agree with Spider-Waffle's: Exhibit one

Emptyeye

2009-06-12 05:57:29 am

Talk to the Hand

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

The one idea you have raised, of Mike proactively contacting past runners to verify new runs of their games, would probably improve the verification process - indeed it's an idea that I've seen raised (and approved of by Mike, in the Metroid Prime verification thread if I remember right) in the past. Of course, it's not something we can demand of Mike since he does everything he does for SDA for free and if he doesn't want to take on an extra workload, he has every right not to, which makes your insulting the system even harder to justify.

Without getting into the rest of the topic, I was under the impression, perhaps wrongly, that this was SOP. Indeed, I don't remember (Though admittedly, maybe I did say it) ever actually explicitly saying I would verify Rygar runs at all; Mike just sort of assumed that I would because, I'm guessing, I had a run of the game at one time. In fact, given my abysmal record of verifying in a timely manner, this is the only reason I can think of that he lets me verify at all. Grin

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]
The one idea you have raised, of Mike proactively contacting past runners to verify new runs of their games, would probably improve the verification process - indeed it's an idea that I've seen raised (and approved of by Mike, in the Metroid Prime verification thread if I remember right) in the past. Of course, it's not something we can demand of Mike since he does everything he does for SDA for free and if he doesn't want to take on an extra workload, he has every right not to, which makes your insulting the system even harder to justify.
[/quote]

Without getting into the rest of the topic, I was under the impression, perhaps wrongly, that this was SOP. Indeed, I don't remember (Though admittedly, maybe I did say it) ever actually explicitly saying I would verify Rygar runs at all; Mike just sort of assumed that I would because, I'm guessing, I had a run of the game at one time. In fact, given my abysmal record of verifying in a timely manner, this is the only reason I can think of that he lets me verify at all.  ;D

Spider-Waffle

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Spider-Waffle

Edit history:

Spider-Waffle: 2009-06-13 04:06:41 am

2009-06-12 08:39:15 pm

Don't think! feeeeeal

Well fortunately the demos themselves don't have any of these issues. If you do have these issues with fraps though I think it should be required to use the startmovie method. It's really not that hard, that's what I used to for my hazard course runs. It's rather unfair to gain time through these teleports otherwise. I mean a runner who makes good videos from their demos would have to edit his video and crop out sections just be on level playing field. Since there is a way to make videos seamless that all players can use I think this should be the level playing field that everyone must meet; it just makes much more sense that way.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-06-13 06:50:08 am

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

Well fortunately the demos themselves don't have any of these issues. If you do have these issues with fraps though I think it should be required to use the startmovie method. It's really not that hard, that's what I used to for my hazard course runs. It's rather unfair to gain time through these teleports otherwise. I mean a runner who makes good videos from their demos would have to edit his video and crop out sections just be on level playing field. Since there is a way to make videos seamless that all players can use I think this should be the level playing field that everyone must meet; it just makes much more sense that way.

If it's a run with these unfair advantages obsoleting one without, this isn't a problem because the verifiers won't accept a run that is faster than the current one purely due to some missing frames.

While I haven't compared the videos, it does sound like - given this is such a short run - there exists a potential issue if a close-to-perfect run that does have these teleports gets onto the site, and runners without them are thus unable to beat it despite producing runs that ought to be a second or two faster. In such circumstances it would in my view be correct for a run with a longer time to obsolete one with a shorter time if it is nonetheless definitely faster - but let's leave the debate about that until such a time as two such runs actually exist, eh?

[quote="Spider-Waffle"]Well fortunately the demos themselves don't have any of these issues.  If you do have these issues with fraps though I think it should be required to use the startmovie method.  It's really not that hard, that's what I used to for my hazard course runs.  It's rather unfair to gain time through these teleports otherwise.  I mean a runner who makes good videos from their demos would have to edit his video and crop out sections just be on level playing field.  Since there is a way to make videos seamless that all players can use I think this should be the level playing field that everyone must meet; it just makes much more sense that way.[/quote]

If it's a run with these unfair advantages obsoleting one without, this isn't a problem because the verifiers won't accept a run that is faster than the current one purely due to some missing frames.

While I haven't compared the videos, it does sound like - given this is such a short run - there exists a [i]potential[/i] issue if a close-to-perfect run that [i]does[/i] have these teleports gets onto the site, and runners without them are thus unable to beat it despite producing runs that ought to be a second or two faster. In such circumstances it would in my view be correct for a run with a longer time to obsolete one with a shorter time if it is nonetheless definitely faster - but let's leave the debate about that until such a time as two such runs actually exist, eh?

groobo

2009-06-13 06:57:20 am

boss

The segmented portal run had the same thing. When verifying I timed how much footage is missing and asked Mike to add that to the final time. From the Portal page:

Quote:

Note: The PC run has an extra 5 second penalty due to demo recording cutting out the start of every level.

Lag.Com

2009-06-13 09:39:28 am

sda loyalist

Well then, problem solved. Someone time all the extra bits that are cut out in the AVI, and add it to the game page's time. :-[

tekknej

2009-06-14 06:42:43 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

but for portal the penalty was estimate... so if everyone will get +5 seconds per transit, but some have teleports, and some dont (or shorter teleport), it still leads to ufair difference.
of course if demos could be timed properly, then that's the way to go. but i guess that's not the case.

groobo

2009-06-14 06:52:12 am

boss

No, I actually timed it down to a single frame - the run had 6.something seconds missing. The 5 second penalty was Mike's call.

mikwuyma

2009-06-14 09:27:51 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote from groobo:

No, I actually timed it down to a single frame - the run had 6.something seconds missing. The 5 second penalty was Mike's call.

Argh I thought the time added up to around 5 seconds. The run was from a while back, so I don't really remember what went on aside from you measuring the video skips for me.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2009-06-15 12:04:20 am

Don't think! feeeeeal

Since there's a fairly easy to way to make videos without skips, why not just require videos don't have skips. Or I guess you could manually time the demos every run and then have a video with skips for everyone else to see. I'd rather see a video without the skips, but that's just me.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-06-15 08:29:46 am

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

Since there's a fairly easy to way to make videos without skips, why not just require videos don't have skips.

There is? How?

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2009-06-16 04:41:42 pm

Don't think! feeeeeal

HL has a built in movie making comand, startmovie. Most HL based movies are made using this. I don't know if movie makers have started using fraps more, but startmovie is perfect in terms of quality and completeness.

rofi

2009-08-14 04:02:15 am

So where's the demo?

rayvex

2009-08-21 04:17:31 pm

hi

Quote from rofi:

So where's the demo?

how about you read the whole topic ?
if you want to see the run, look up the video and fucking watch it.

ontopic:
as i havent got the demo anymore i made a new one which comes close to the run I made before, so here ya go:

http://rapidshare.com/files/269985612/ok.dem.html

i tested and figured out the skips appear when i record through a loading zone using fraps, probably cuz the framerate drops at this point.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2009-08-28 04:11:02 pm

Don't think! feeeeeal

Could a proper video of this be made and hosted as the new record?

RandomEngy

2010-03-09 05:30:35 pm

A Crab

Hold on one second, did you call my 3:16 run, the one you beat by 6 seconds, "terrible"? I don't begrudge you making an improvement on it, but honestly, WTF. You didn't even add any tricks to it.

And sorry for raising this from the dead. I don't check around the forums as often as I used to.