Dante's Inferno

2010-02-14 09:37:23 pm

SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)

I know we should wait before we start a discussion on a game that just came out, however I just rented this game and just beat the game twice already... Its one thing to do a speculation on how a game will run, but its another when a game has a "New Game Plus" mode...

Resurrection Mode is downright violent... It allows you to carry over all abilities and relics you have collected, and you start off right as you enter hell... I did a simple playthrough round, not even trying and beat the game in under 3 hrs... So far, I figured out that the holy cross is an evil crowd clearer and is even more powerful than the scythe with the right relics (which I still need to figure out the right combination...) That and I will need to rent this game again to be able to perform the run, but hey, I guess while I wait to rent the game again, this would be the best time to talk strategy...

Of course, this thread can also cover a new game run as well, which in that case, it would require a bit more... planning (such as if one would go holy or unholy, what relics to collect, who you should absolve or punish, and so forth... ) If anyone has any good suggestions for this game, go ahead and post, and if anyone is going to take a whack at this, I wish them the best of luck and be sure to raise hell!

Thread title:

I know we should wait before we start a discussion on a game that just came out, however I just rented this game and just beat the game twice already...  Its one thing to do a speculation on how a game will run, but its another when a game has a "New Game Plus" mode...

Resurrection Mode is downright violent... It allows you to carry over all abilities and relics you have collected, and you start off right as you enter hell... I did a simple playthrough round, not even trying and beat the game in under 3 hrs...  So far, I figured out that the holy cross is an evil crowd clearer and is even more powerful than the scythe with the right relics (which I still need to figure out the right combination...)  That and I will need to rent this game again to be able to perform the run, but hey, I guess while I wait to rent the game again, this would be the best time to talk strategy...

Of course, this thread can also cover a new game run as well, which in that case, it would require a bit more... planning (such as if one would go holy or unholy, what relics to collect, who you should absolve or punish, and so forth... )  If anyone has any good suggestions for this game, go ahead and post, and if anyone is going to take a whack at this, I wish them the best of luck and be sure to raise hell!

Wheels

2010-02-14 11:59:28 pm

I'm the keeper of Time.

I just finished the game on Zealot mode trying to get everything (missed 2 things ugh) and I can totally see this being run. New Game + or not, it shouldn't be too long.

WingedKitsune

2010-02-15 01:09:06 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

PC Gamers got screwed with this game, cause if you don't have a 360 or PS3, you can't play it.

I am however, interested in seeing it run. Any% or 100%, both are preferable.

Wheels

2010-02-15 07:34:08 am

I'm the keeper of Time.

If someone were to run a NG+, it would be in their best interest to max out both paths. That way, the only thing to worry about is actually sprinting through the levels and not wasting time by collecting EXP or Un/Holy points.

Dudemanguy86

2010-02-15 07:46:23 am

They should also grab all the relics that reduce damage, enable speed recovery, mana regen for spamming stun attack on crowds (actually does a ton of damage), and one relice to switch out accordingly per specific reasons.

(i don't have ALL the relics yet due to school playing into my gaming time Sad

but i'd imagine there's a few that are better than the above)

Wheels

2010-02-15 02:51:03 pm

I'm the keeper of Time.

Quote from Dudemanguy86:

They should also grab all the relics that reduce damage, enable speed recovery, mana regen for spamming stun attack on crowds (actually does a ton of damage), and one relice to switch out accordingly per specific reasons.

(i don't have ALL the relics yet due to school playing into my gaming time Sad

but i'd imagine there's a few that are better than the above)

Reducing damage, or negating it all together? I think the relic you get from Alighiero (Dante's Father, in Greed) absorbs damage but Francesco (Beatrice's brother, in Violence) gives a shield that negates attacks (about 1/7 when fully upgraded)

Mana regen is very helpful, and when running low on health activate Holy Armor.

MAS8705

Edit history:

MAS8705: 2010-02-15 09:44:43 pm

2010-02-15 03:40:33 pm

SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)

Quote from Wheels:

Quote from Dudemanguy86:

They should also grab all the relics that reduce damage, enable speed recovery, mana regen for spamming stun attack on crowds (actually does a ton of damage), and one relice to switch out accordingly per specific reasons.

(i don't have ALL the relics yet due to school playing into my gaming time Sad

but i'd imagine there's a few that are better than the above)

Reducing damage, or negating it all together? I think the relic you get from Alighiero (Dante's Father, in Greed) absorbs damage but Francesco (Beatrice's brother, in Violence) gives a shield that negates attacks (about 1/7 when fully upgraded)

Mana regen is very helpful, and when running low on health activate Holy Armor.

Before I returned the game, I only had four upgrades left, one for armor and one for the "sacrifice health to perform powerful attack... As far as I see, those upgrades aren't really needed... Francesco's Forgiveness is more than enough, especially if you are going to do it on a lower difficulty... The only relics that I saw are worth anything as well is the one where "performing cross attacks can't be interrupted," "Power up cross attacks" and perhaps the mana regen would be good... killing with the cross regenerates your health, so not much really needs to be concerned about taking damage since you will would be regenerating health as quickly...

I will try to do into further details later, I don't have enough time at the moment to go further into the details... (did I really say further details twice!?! I guess I didn't pay attention to what I was saying since I was in a hurry when I wrote that last sentence... seeing how no one posted yet, I'll just edit what I was previously writing about...)

During my joke run, I used the cross about 95% of the time, the other 5% were situations where you couldn't really use it (which were King Minos I think since he isn't really effected by the cross, the jackass magicians who give immunity to himself and others to magic attacks and Lucifer near the end of the fight...) Later on, I saw that using the scythe during the last hit with Y (where dante jumps up and stabs the ground) helps with dealing major damage to the more stronger enemies when the enemy doesn't really die from the 4 hit cross combo... Hell, even the magicians with magic immunity goes down in two hits from the LT+A mid air attack causing the time people are immune to magic to be minimal at most... I didn't really try since I was still focused on getting souls to max out my skills, but even so, I still managed to hit sub 3 hrs...

So far, that is how I have seen this; just relics that power up the cross, then I would need to figure out what would be a good 4th relic to use since damage isn't really much of a concern if I'm healing almost all the time with the cross... If I can recall the actual specific names and abilities, I'll revise what I'm talking about later... For now, I'm only thinking about this run, but if I get the chance to rent this game again, you will be seeing this game in the verification threads a few days later...

[quote="Wheels"]
[quote="Dudemanguy86"]
They should also grab all the relics that reduce damage, enable speed recovery, mana regen for spamming stun attack on crowds (actually does a ton of damage), and one relice to switch out accordingly per specific reasons.

(i don't have ALL the relics yet due to school playing into my gaming time :( but i'd imagine there's a few that are better than the above)

[/quote]

Reducing damage, or negating it all together? I think the relic you get from Alighiero (Dante's Father, in Greed) absorbs damage but Francesco (Beatrice's brother, in Violence) gives a shield that negates attacks (about 1/7 when fully upgraded)

Mana regen is very helpful, and when running low on health activate Holy Armor.
[/quote]

Before I returned the game, I only had four upgrades left, one for armor and one for the "sacrifice health to perform powerful attack... As far as I see, those upgrades aren't really needed... Francesco's Forgiveness is more than enough, especially if you are going to do it on a lower difficulty... The only relics that I saw are worth anything as well is the one where "performing cross attacks can't be interrupted," "Power up cross attacks" and perhaps the mana regen would be good...  killing with the cross regenerates your health, so not much really needs to be concerned about taking damage since you will would be regenerating health as quickly...

I will try to do into further details later, I don't have enough time at the moment to go further into the details...  (did I really say further details twice!?!  I guess I didn't pay attention to what I was saying since I was in a hurry when I wrote that last sentence...  seeing how no one posted yet, I'll just edit what I was previously writing about...)

During my joke run, I used the cross about 95% of the time, the other 5% were situations where you couldn't really use it (which were King Minos I think since he isn't really effected by the cross, the jackass magicians who give immunity to himself and others to magic attacks and Lucifer near the end of the fight...)  Later on, I saw that using the scythe during the last hit with Y (where dante jumps up and stabs the ground) helps with dealing major damage to the more stronger enemies when the enemy doesn't really die from the 4 hit cross combo... Hell, even the magicians with magic immunity goes down in two hits from the LT+A mid air attack causing the time people are immune to magic to be minimal at most...  I didn't really try since I was still focused on getting souls to max out my skills, but even so, I still managed to hit sub 3 hrs...

So far, that is how I have seen this; just relics that power up the cross, then I would need to figure out what would be a good 4th relic to use since damage isn't really much of a concern if I'm healing almost all the time with the cross... If I can recall the actual specific names and abilities, I'll revise what I'm talking about later...  For now, I'm only thinking about this run, but if I get the chance to rent this game again, you will be seeing this game in the verification threads a few days later...

Cauldrath

2010-02-16 10:27:21 am

The baddle haz jusd begunn!

I don't have much to contribute except that you can destroy Lucifer pretty well in his second form by just equipping the relic that makes cross attacks uninterruptible and spamming them. It prevents the white flash counter attack, but he can still do the regular counter. Otherwise he just stays in hit stun unless he's flying away to give you health and mana.

Wheels

2010-02-16 03:28:44 pm

I'm the keeper of Time.

For a standard run, a big issue is where to get exp. Fountains give a few hundred for about 3-5 seconds. Auto-absolved souls in my experience give 300 and is instant, punish a bit more, and regular absolved anywhere from 600 to 1410, depending on how far along you are.

If no one else knows this, upgrading health or mana fully restores the appropriate bar if a problem occurs in a battle.

DarthVenom

2010-02-16 04:02:30 pm

I can see a very skilled runner (IE not me) doing Resurrection Mode in sub-two hours, or at least sub-two and a half. This game is very generous with the checkpoints, which could assist in a single-segment run. Definitely going to utilize cross spamming, and using Holy level 7's ability to gain more health from cross attacks should keep you from needing to waste time at health fountains. I don't have a whole lot more to add, being just halfway through my second playthrough.

Wheels

2010-02-16 09:14:03 pm

I'm the keeper of Time.

I'm pretty sure the only skill needed here is for boss fights, and a NG+ will make them effortless until Lucifer. You can jump along walls, slide down body ladders/ropes and evade/cancel/evade to move quick like in God of War.

System Error

Edit history:

System Error: 2010-02-19 06:25:08 pm

2010-02-19 06:15:37 pm

Generic Text

Ehh...not really. There's lots of slow parts. But here's some things I do know that can help, most in NG+.

- In Heresy, you can reactivate the switch in the first hall of flamethrowers to instantly kill one of the minotaurs. In the second of those rooms, if you use Divine Armor, you can ignore the flames and just open the door.
- Divine Armor counts as a cross attack as far as fire enemies are concerned, which helps against groups of heretics and flaming enemies.
- On the retracting spiked wall of bullshit (I think on the descent to Heresy, if not anger), you just need to pull it slightly to trigger the enemies appearing when you walk back. No need to pull it all the way, fight the enemies as it comes back out, and pull it all the way again!
- Ciacco's Bile is illegally useful on higher difficulties casually, though it's probably not all that in a speedrun (except maybe with Marytrdom).

General tips...

- In my experience, just spamming one weapon isn't enough. Good combos combining the two usually get things done faster.
- Don't use finisher combos on the winged demons. They'll die much faster than if you cut their wings off and work from there.
- Try to knock enemies into hazards as often as possible.
- There are times where the scythe is better than the cross, such as Francesco, or the spinning enemies in Greed. Impaler/Death's Pillar is useful, as the second hit often does a lot of damage.
- I heard about a glitch where someone was at the end of Greed (pushing the wheel of fortune), but the game glitched, and dropped them into Anger (killing them, but they respawned there). Something similar happened to me last night while entering Fraud - the platform just kept moving, I died, but I had fallen into Treachery. However, I didn't respawn there. The bad news is, these glitches seem random.

Ehh...not really. There's lots of slow parts. But here's some things I do know that can help, most in NG+.

- In Heresy, you can reactivate the switch in the first hall of flamethrowers to instantly kill one of the minotaurs. In the second of those rooms, if you use Divine Armor, you can ignore the flames and just open the door.
- Divine Armor counts as a cross attack as far as fire enemies are concerned, which helps against groups of heretics and flaming enemies.
- On the retracting spiked wall of bullshit (I think on the descent to Heresy, if not anger), you just need to pull it slightly to trigger the enemies appearing when you walk back. No need to pull it all the way, fight the enemies as it comes back out, and pull it all the way again!
- Ciacco's Bile is illegally useful on higher difficulties casually, though it's probably not all that in a speedrun (except maybe with Marytrdom).

General tips...

- In my experience, just spamming one weapon isn't enough. Good combos combining the two usually get things done faster.
- Don't use finisher combos on the winged demons. They'll die much faster than if you cut their wings off and work from there.
- Try to knock enemies into hazards as often as possible.
- There are times where the scythe is better than the cross, such as Francesco, or the spinning enemies in Greed. Impaler/Death's Pillar is useful, as the second hit often does a lot of damage.
- I heard about a glitch where someone was at the end of Greed (pushing the wheel of fortune), but the game glitched, and dropped them into Anger (killing them, but they respawned there). Something similar happened to me last night while entering Fraud - the platform just kept moving, I died, but I had fallen into Treachery. However, I didn't respawn there. The bad news is, these glitches seem random.

Wheels

2010-02-19 06:39:36 pm

I'm the keeper of Time.

I suppose that makes sense.

What difficulty should this be run on? Classic is unbelievably easier than Zealot, and with NG+ it becomes ridiculously simple. Any boss with a health bar just cowers in fear of upgraded Sins of the Father. With Francesco you have to wait for him to call out to the Crusaders before trying to kill him, or he'll just get half his health back.

DarthVenom

2010-02-20 04:55:27 pm

Quote from System Error:

- On the retracting spiked wall of bullshit (I think on the descent to Heresy, if not anger), you just need to pull it slightly to trigger the enemies appearing when you walk back. No need to pull it all the way, fight the enemies as it comes back out, and pull it all the way again!

You don't even need to pull the trigger at all - just walk near enough that the icon appears for you to pull it, and then walk back to kill the newly-spawning enemies. Seems small, but the distinction could save a few seconds of pulling.

That fall-through glitch sounds very interesting, though. The game's still very young, so who knows, somebody might find a way to trigger it on-call, even if it is just a one-in-ten-times sort of thing.

Dudemanguy86

2010-02-22 11:16:40 am

The falling through levels glitch happens near level advance locations, typically while on a "vehicle" of sorts (moving platform, falling platform, rat beast dude, magma titan).

As for forcing the respawn at where you fall, you'd have to figure out first which portion of that level break to fall through, because like most games that include these kind of glitches, it will matter if you're say... one step to the left/right. This would be the more annoying part of the whole deal, although i suppose someone with the capability to "hack" the games maps into a 3d rendering would pretty much give you this answer right away; but that's asking for a bit much.

As for combos to drop enemies quickly, spamming cross on the typical flying enemies (minion-level, not demons) tends to work if they're far away, whereas the jump>>square>>triangle works wonders up close.

Punishing minion level enemies tends to be really fast on zealot or higher when there's less than 4 of them.

If there's more than 4 of them, throw down a seed and use the holy move to pull enemies in then cancel out of the second part, jump and hold circle to blast them away. Repeat as needed per difficulty level.

If this isn't NG+, then you're best bet is either continuing to punish or using the "link spin" sword move, ionno what it's called, but it spins around like link in zelda games. Upgraded, it's pretty devastating.

For regular demon enemies, L1+x obliterates them when followed up with cross spam to cancel the final move (haven't decided which is faster, they're about equal when i try it)

For flying demon enemies, PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW, basically. jump, cross, triangle, cross, square, hold circle to blast the ground with cross, land, L1+x; that kills them really fast when pulled off quickly, takes some practice.

If there is ever more than 4 enemies, it seems that spamming seed magic kills them quickest, especially those bitches in lust... OMG i hate them...

Maxing divine armor and getting the relic that replinishes mana basically = infinite health if you're not overzealous and know when things are good ideas or bad ideas.

Few other notes for levels:

Make the part in greed with the damned double level falling spike platform crap a segment of it's own, it is so retardedly glitchy with the way the cameras positioned. I hate that room.

On the fight vs your father, scythe pretty much is the only way to go with air attacks, just swap between cross "smash" (hold circle in air), triangle, and square to achieve more air time.

The trial room where you have to protect the two peasants/innocents=spam circle and seed magic as needed.

The trial room with air time = hold triangle near enemy, drag enemy into air with you, hit square, tap circle, hit square, tap circle, triangle, square, triangle, hold circle (tedious, but it's actually overkill for the air time challenge; WILL TAKE PRACTICE TO PULL OFF)

Lucifer is just a spam fest while avoiding his sizable member :/ (was it really needed, i mean really? lol)

That's all i can think of at the moment, i know there's more but i'd have to play through it again. I would run this game personally since i've already beaten it in under 3 hours (with screwing around/idle time for food), but i have no way to record it sadly. I will be heading to the store at some point to try and find a "cheap" capture card so i can start working on console runs instead of PC since apparently my PC hates me at the moment (thus no Borderlands videos lately, which is bothering me alot). Once i get a decent capture card, i'll probably start work on this or WKC NG+ run(s), maybe even some classic games too for shits and giggles. Anyone have any suggestions as to what kind of capture card i should look for? PM me if you don't me, rather not clutter this thread with it.

The falling through levels glitch happens near level advance locations, typically while on a "vehicle" of sorts (moving platform, falling platform, rat beast dude, magma titan).

As for forcing the respawn at where you fall, you'd have to figure out first which portion of that level break to fall through, because like most games that include these kind of glitches, it will matter if you're say... one step to the left/right. This would be the more annoying part of the whole deal, although i suppose someone with the capability to "hack" the games maps into a 3d rendering would pretty much give you this answer right away; but that's asking for a bit much.

As for combos to drop enemies quickly, spamming cross on the typical flying enemies (minion-level, not demons) tends to work if they're far away, whereas the jump>>square>>triangle works wonders up close.

Punishing minion level enemies tends to be really fast on zealot or higher when there's less than 4 of them.

If there's more than 4 of them, throw down a seed and use the holy move to pull enemies in then cancel out of the second part, jump and hold circle to blast them away. Repeat as needed per difficulty level.

If this isn't NG+, then you're best bet is either continuing to punish or using the "link spin" sword move, ionno what it's called, but it spins around like link in zelda games. Upgraded, it's pretty devastating.

For regular demon enemies, L1+x obliterates them when followed up with cross spam to cancel the final move (haven't decided which is faster, they're about equal when i try it)

For flying demon enemies, PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW, basically. jump, cross, triangle, cross, square, hold circle to blast the ground with cross, land, L1+x; that kills them really fast when pulled off quickly, takes some practice.

If there is ever more than 4 enemies, it seems that spamming seed magic kills them quickest, especially those bitches in lust... OMG i hate them...

Maxing divine armor and getting the relic that replinishes mana basically = infinite health if you're not overzealous and know when things are good ideas or bad ideas.

Few other notes for levels:

Make the part in greed with the damned double level falling spike platform crap a segment of it's own, it is so retardedly glitchy with the way the cameras positioned. I hate that room.

On the fight vs your father, scythe pretty much is the only way to go with air attacks, just swap between cross "smash" (hold circle in air), triangle, and square to achieve more air time.

The trial room where you have to protect the two peasants/innocents=spam circle and seed magic as needed.

The trial room with air time = hold triangle near enemy, drag enemy into air with you, hit square, tap circle, hit square, tap circle, triangle, square, triangle, hold circle (tedious, but it's actually overkill for the air time challenge; WILL TAKE PRACTICE TO PULL OFF)

Lucifer is just a spam fest while avoiding his sizable member :/ (was it really needed, i mean really? lol)

That's all i can think of at the moment, i know there's more but i'd have to play through it again. I would run this game personally since i've already beaten it in under 3 hours (with screwing around/idle time for food), but i have no way to record it sadly. I will be heading to the store at some point to try and find a "cheap" capture card so i can start working on console runs instead of PC since apparently my PC hates me at the moment (thus no Borderlands videos lately, which is bothering  me alot). Once i get a decent capture card, i'll probably start work on this or WKC NG+ run(s), maybe even some classic games too for shits and giggles. Anyone have any suggestions as to what kind of capture card i should look for? PM me if you don't me, rather not clutter this thread with it.

DarthVenom

Edit history:

DarthVenom: 2010-03-02 02:35:39 pm

2010-03-02 01:58:50 pm

So I'm doing a mock-up speedrun of the game (not recorded, some slight dicking around like absolving the occasional shade directly in my path, since I'm a caring, feeling kind of guy, but...) on Resurrection Mode with everything maxed out, just to kind of see how things will play out. Some errors and not really optimised (IE, no restarts for the sake of time saving after a mistake), but I'm currently left off at the save point just before you enter the City of Dis proper, after you've dismounted Phledgeus's...head, at just under an hour and a half. Some notes...

Using the right-stick dash move and jumping at the end of it (thus negating the post-dash pause) is faster than normal walking. I think so, at least; haven't done concrete measurements.

Those beast-master jockeys make me want to punch Satan in the face. (Fortunately, we're later given the opportunity) Gotta take them out as soon as they appear, which becomes my first priority when I'm riding the beast.

DarthVenom

Edit history:

DarthVenom: 2010-03-04 07:08:37 am

2010-03-03 04:35:44 pm

Final results: 2:39:59. Had a few costly slip-ups particularly at Phlegethon but mostly in Violence in general, along with general unoptimization of a few other areas, so I have no doubt that sub-2:30 is possible, if not outright expected.

Sub-2:00, though, I don't have high hopes for. The game mainly keeps you on a set path, and I don't believe I made forty minutes worth of unoptimization/mistakes, so barring a break that can be activated on-cue, I don't see it.

AKheon

Edit history:

AKheon: 2010-03-13 06:39:37 am

2010-03-12 05:53:18 am

Glitch advocate

Erased the post. Let's start from a clean slate.

Here's "redemption jump", with which you can pass over most doors (and walls in general here and there) during the game.

Redemption is very important to manage during a Resurrection-mode run. It not only helps for faster navigation and fights, but some useful skips are only possible with the above trick. (applications are currently being researched)

It's possible to abuse checkpoints for saving your precious redemption. Saving & reloading might also come in handy. Also, some in-game actions (like getting on a beast) automatically stops redemption-mode.

I think that the speedrunner should leave health & mana upgrades alone until later, since upgrading them gives you a complete refill while at it, and for completely free too. For some magic-spamming friendly strategies, instant refill whenever needed is extremely useful.

Sub-2:00, here we come...

DarthVenom

2010-03-13 07:02:26 am

One word: awesome. That Resurrection Jump single-handedly obsoletes the mock-up run I posted up there. Now, of course, the question becomes just how far it can be pushed...DI speedrunning just got a lot more interesting.

AKheon

2010-03-15 12:39:07 pm

Glitch advocate

Here's three simple yet useful "redemption jump" skips from the first circles.

Before this, I found a couple of skips that can be done without spending redemption too. Should I link to these too?

DarthVenom

2010-03-16 05:55:31 am

Sure, go right on ahead. Anyone who's trying to plan a serious route can then just hop in here and check it out.

AKheon

Edit history:

AKheon: 2013-09-16 08:19:37 am

2010-03-16 12:40:20 pm

Glitch advocate

I'm uploading skips at a rapid pace at the moment... it's more practical to just link to a playlist that has everything as soon as it comes up.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9DAA0316F6AFEC66

I think these skips can currently save 5-8 minutes total out of a potential speedrun. I'm not finished breaking this game yet, though...

AKheon

2010-03-17 04:51:09 pm

Glitch advocate

Here's another cool Greed-skip. Goes almost straight from Plutus Chamber save to Sins of the Father, which means a few truly boring sections skipped (the long beast ride with block pushing, for example). In addition to cutscenes, which I think add to your time (but I'm not 100% certain).

There's two theoretical early opportunities to visit the Sins of the Father room (activating its checkpoint) early during Greed, but neither of them has panned out yet. Firstly, at the first fight of Greed, over the room that is slowly filling up with liquid gold, we're right next to the Sins of the Father room, but it's enclosed by walls too high to jump over. Seems the walls extend beyond the floor and to the sides too... Another opportunity is at the platform ride, during which you actually go over the same room (which has now completely filled with gold). But the game has placed some additional walls to prevent this skip from happening, and the whole thing is super annoying to test because you have to ride for a while before even reaching the correct place. The first moving platform appears to have walls too high for jumping over, but not the second one, which is interesting. So with this one there's still some hope. Right now I'm more interested to move on to the next circle, though. Maybe return later or subtly attempt to delegate testing work to other interested folks.

Here's another cool Greed-skip. Goes almost straight from Plutus Chamber save to Sins of the Father, which means a few truly boring sections skipped (the long beast ride with block pushing, for example). In addition to cutscenes, which I think add to your time (but I'm not 100% certain).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZSAaTW6cIw

There's two theoretical early opportunities to visit the Sins of the Father room (activating its checkpoint) early during Greed, but neither of them has panned out yet. Firstly, at the first fight of Greed, over the room that is slowly filling up with liquid gold, we're right next to the Sins of the Father room, but it's enclosed by walls too high to jump over. Seems the walls extend beyond the floor and to the sides too... Another opportunity is at the platform ride, during which you actually go over the same room (which has now completely filled with gold). But the game has placed some additional walls to prevent this skip from happening, and the whole thing is super annoying to test because you have to ride for a while before even reaching the correct place. The first moving platform appears to have walls too high for jumping over, but not the second one, which is interesting. So with this one there's still some hope. Right now I'm more interested to move on to the next circle, though. Maybe return later or subtly attempt to delegate testing work to other interested folks.

DarthVenom

2010-03-18 07:28:00 am

The most awesome part of that skip, to me, is that it skips the Beast section, because that thing moves slow enough to make molasses look like a Formula 1 racer. I'd have to pop the game back in and take a look myself, but the potential skip from the rising gold area near the start of Greed to Sins Of The Father would maybe be the largest skip in the game, IF it's any more than a pipe dream.

MAS8705

2010-03-18 10:21:42 am

SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)

The skips look very nice, but I only have one problem with it... The majority of the jumps (from what I have seen) require you to later kill yourself in order to preserve the redemption meter... While this is a smart move in order to use the jump again quickly, this would still be considered a death abuse run (no pun intended...)

I can see where some skips like the box puzzle or the area before King Minos would be perfect to use it to save time... If I attempt the run, I will be going for a non-death run, but I wish anyone luck if they decide to fully exploit the game...