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dirak: 2015-01-15 02:09:51 pm
dirak: 2015-01-15 02:09:18 pm
I was wondering if there's any discussion with daggerfall? I've searched the forums but most of the threads are from ~7 years ago.
I've started exploring daggerfall and all of its bugs and wanted a platform to discuss them, as well as document the existing glitches / skips (i've seen a small amount of puri_puri's runs.)

Any% run by puri_puri:


Clipping trick:


Jump catapult:


Hoping to capture some more oddities/skips in the next few days.
Thread title:  
Oh wow I haven't played this game since I was a kid. Would love to watch a live stream of it.

As far as running it, didn't Daggerfall have some game breaking bugs? I think there was a quest that could lock you out of finishing the game.
Quote from Komrade:
Oh wow I haven't played this game since I was a kid. Would love to watch a live stream of it.

As far as running it, didn't Daggerfall have some game breaking bugs? I think there was a quest that could lock you out of finishing the game.


Soemtime next week I'll probably livestream some daggerfall. Currently the any% WR for daggerfall is 30m, with perfect rng (held by puri_puri.) I don't think much can be improved on it mechanically, so new routes or techniques would have to drive progress in the any% category.

There are some glitches, but most can be averted by being aware (quest mobs not spawning so setting up saves beforehand, etc.) Most the glitches are actually beneficial to the run, the most important ones being levitation clipping and super jumping with the travel menu.



Yeah just the name Daggerfall is giving me a nostalgia trip. Even if the run can't be improved upon that much I would still say give it a go (so I have something to watch Wink )

I'm assuming your twitch name is the same as sda?
Twitch would be /dirak_ instead of /dirak.

I've been doing segments and noticing some interesting-if not useless- glitches. One of which is whenever something "fancy" such as an elevator is going on a clock, it doesn't get interrupted by the gamestate. This means I can sit in pause menu and when I exit pause, the elevator will have continued to move.

It's exciting to find such obvious bugs, especially since I can't seem to find them in any bug tracker for daggerfall (there are some really specific ones in there, though.)
sda loyalist
Would be nice to have a good catalogue of these. I've been interested in running Daggerfall for ages (I might have started that ~7 year old thread) but I don't enjoy these clipping glitches at all.
Quote from Lag.Com:
Would be nice to have a good catalog of these.


I've been spending the last couple days recording all the oddities I find. I am not sure the best way to catalogue them (text? video?) I'm not sure what the rules are on embedding videos excessively on SDA.

Quote:
I've been interested in running Daggerfall for ages (I might have started that ~7 year old thread) but I don't enjoy these clipping glitches at all.


I don't see why there couldn't be a glitchless% for daggerfall. Finding the werewolf, mummy, and the final bit of the run would be very difficult without it and I imagine there would be entirely new routing strategies (which is neat!)


In terms of new stuff, I spent an hour messing around yesterday and came up with some exciting results:

Using the attack glitch, I saved a couple seconds on my Privateer's Hold run (I always have issues pulling the lever, so I thought I'd just skip it.) You can see that here:



I wanted to do more exploration with how the attack glitch interacted with everything else. Since I have levitate almost immediately after the first dungeon, I couldn't think of any uses outside of it. When I got to daggerfall to get the werewolf quest, I saw another opportunity though: scaling the castle wall. I had levitate, but I wanted to see if I could do it without casting any magic (also, I think the attack is slightly faster than the slow levitate.) This led to me entering the door for the first time with downward velocity, leading to an interesting result:



I can't isolate what causes this scenario precisely, but it seems to be a mixture of falling, where you click the door, and having the game in full screen( I couldn't get it to work with full screen turned off.) That being said, I'm getting close to making it 100% reproducible. I see it saving time, as you no longer have to talk to the guard, walk the throne room, or run away from aggro guards later on in the run.

That's all I have for today, but after I get this door clip down I can see it opening up a lot of opportunities later on in the run.
sda loyalist
Neat; based on my understanding of Daggerfall's engine (as much as the developers, maybe) it's probably applying your velocity for one more frame as soon as you enter the door, resulting in your clip. A larger downward velocity might slam you into another room if there are several levels in your destination.
Quote from Lag.Com:
Neat; based on my understanding of Daggerfall's engine (as much as the developers, maybe) it's probably applying your velocity for one more frame as soon as you enter the door, resulting in your clip. A larger downward velocity might slam you into another room if there are several levels in your destination.


I've finally made it 100% reproducible, actually! It is a combination of angle, velocity and buffering a jump while falling (i think if you hold jump while falling it constantly is asking if you can jump or not.) I've applied it to a lot of other doors, and got partial success.

Another 100% door is for Scourg's Barrow. If you press and hold spacebar while entering scourg's barrow, you'll clip ontop of the room saving some time clipping. This would be a couple of seconds saved, and not very noteworthy. Thankfully I found one that makes the whole king of worms ordeal only ~14seconds (while speeding). You can see that here:



The important part of that trick is to cast slowfall before levitate, or it will calculate your fall damage and kill you. Other than those two tricks, I've been testing level 5 werebeast quest vs. level 7. Was hoping to get a more consistent werebeast segment by being lower level (and thus less monsters in the dungeon.) Unfortunately it doesn't seem to matter much.

I'll probably stream some bughunting on monday/tuesday night. I also want to try and route a glitchless% run, more of a 'speedcrawl' of daggerfall for relaxation.
Did a bit of streaming today--finally at my desktop setup so I can run with a split timer instead of just recording the whole thing through dosbox. I learned the importance of proper z.cfg files (ran out of memory error on one of the quests), and got to see that I do character creation way too slowly.

In terms of updates for the route, not much has changed since the last find. I finally figured out how puri_puri does the leveling strat in the WR, so I have to practice that before I can start using it. If you're curious on how it works, watch the video. The first spell he casts after ever quick travel is slowfall. Then he does the normal leveling combination of cast/enter/jump/run/forward. Slowfall treats jumps just like the old doorframe method, and the quick travel cuts out all the 'wait for 7 hours' issues.

Hopefully I can get a full run done, but between errors and limited time I haven't had much luck yet.
Streamed again last night. Got a lot of neat things, including a weird buffer overflow bug:



I could see someone much smarter than I use this to do some crazy wrong warp.

I'm working on completely rerouting Hold->level 7, as well as working in my new Morgiah's Wedding skips and werebeast/Courier skips. A quick run puts me ~14seconds ahead of WR, so I'm hoping the rest of my cuts and rerouting makes a sub 30 easy (I'd love to cut down on the required spells by a lot, just because my bad wrist can't really handle these daggerfall menus ;).)
sda loyalist
Daggerfall being the game it is, I think just crashing is the most likely output of that glitch. I'm surprised you didn't get some kind of memory debug error, it does like to show those.
Before Radiant AI, before Radiant Storytelling, Bethesda managed to make an RPG so big you'll never finish playing it, with more characters,  dungeons, loot and spells than you'll find in just about every other game put together. And yet, it wasn't a repetitive slog. On the contrary, this game had it all, and that includes a ton of bugs.