Cool Spot

Edit history:

Mr. K: 2012-08-29 10:54:56 am

2012-08-29 10:54:32 am

Yes

Surf Patrol is finished. I can tell in practicing it that it's going to eat a lot of my attempts and it's going to be very painful. Even a slight mistake can cost 5+ seconds and for a run this short that's not going to be acceptable.

Back to the Wall, Dock & Roll, and Loco Motive remain.

Mr. K

Edit history:

Mr. K: 2012-10-13 03:18:59 pm

Mr. K: 2012-10-13 03:18:07 pm

2012-10-13 03:17:30 pm

Yes

So I haven't forgotten about Cool Spot. I've just been focusing on Contra related items. Here is a route for Dock and Roll. I'm really not looking forward to Dock and Roll because the health is pretty tight, some of the bees are a real pain and the jumps are unforgiving. And once I finish it in a run Surf Patrol is right after.

There's not too much to say, I made some sacrifices with some of the jumps and the last rope climb is a bit hairy and I stuttered but you get the idea. Only two stages are left to route, Back to the Wall and Loco Motive.

Peachy

2013-01-02 02:21:29 pm

I am pretty much freaking out right now... I have been an observer of SDA for about 3 years but never registered or was involved until I read this re-vitalized thread. I started a speed run on this game about a year ago on hard difficulty but could never (meaning after 600± tries... literally) complete a run past stage 6. I got so pissed one day I just up and sold my SEGA. That's right F%$k this game... that is unlesss someone else is running it. Super stoked for this, so if you need anymore advice let me know.

Mr. K

2013-01-02 11:19:04 pm

Yes

Hey Peachy,

Welcome to the forums! I'm glad you signed up. I definitely love Cool Spot and I'm happy to see someone else does (or used to before you started running it?). I was definitely surprised that a game this good didn't have a speedrun yet so I started routing it. The routes take a bit of work and so I decided to start with the easy difficulty. I had to put this game on hold because of marathon preparations but I'll be picking it up again once the marathon is over. I tried routing hard mode, but I lost my patience very quickly. I'm impressed that you even started running this game on hard. Do you still recall what some of your routes were for the hard difficulty?

Peachy

2013-01-03 05:47:36 am

I have been looking for my notes and such but have not been able to find them. I moved since last trying out this game so I need to look a bit more. The first four stages I remember quite well for hard however on easy they are completely different in regards to strategy and geneal play style (with hard you have to be much more conservative). Overall I think you are at a good point. I am buying a new genesis this week so I will get back on the horse and start slingin those things cool spot throws (is it little balls of carbonation?)... anyways I will let you know when I come across my old stuff.

Mr. K

2013-01-20 11:17:12 am

Yes

As promised, I've gotten back to work on Cool Spot now that the marathon is over. I've finished routing.

Back to the Wall

Health is really tight in this stage and things are a bit dangerous. I don't normally end up with this many spots by the end of the stage. Since you can shoot the cage from above, continuing on past the cage to get more spots doesn't really cost much time.

Loco Motive

I love this level and I'm pretty proud of how this turned out. There are a bunch of blind jumps and this is about as close as I've come to "sequence breaking" in this game.

So these are the routes. Unless someone else has any improvements, speak up now or else I'm going to start practicing this game as a whole now.

Mr. K

2013-01-29 11:42:22 am

Yes

I just started doing practice attempts. I got a 13:57. I know I made at least 30 seconds worth of mistakes, but not a minute worth of mistakes so I'm probably going to say that the final time is going to be thirteen and change.

I've already found a few small route optimizations for Radical Rails and Wound Up. I think I've got an improvement for Toy Time that would also negate the time saved by that frame perfect trick I wasn't planning on doing anyway. I also found a weird acceleration trick in Wading Aroud. Surf Patrol is my arch nemesis.

Mr. K

Edit history:

Mr. K: 2013-04-07 11:35:14 am

2013-04-07 11:29:15 am

Yes

Oh hey there Cool Spot, it's been a while hasn't it? Last update I gave was 13:57? I decided it was high time I finally finish this game. So I've got a run done. It clocks in at about 12:06. It destroys most of the IL videos that I posted. Only a couple are a few seconds faster. These include Pier Pressure, Radical Rails, and Surf Patrol. Every other level is slightly or significantly faster. I found major improvements for Toying Around and Wound Up. Back to the Wall had a couple minor slip ups with some lucky breaks to make it even, and Dock and Roll could have been faster with better bee luck, but that level is brutal. Sub 12 is possible, but I think I'm going to have my celebratory 7up and call it a day.

gia

2013-04-10 03:14:19 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

is it ILs or SS or both? I don't like it's on easy but congrats, 12 mins sounds really fast

Mr. K

2013-04-10 08:50:40 pm

Yes

Hey thanks gia! The time was single segment. I'm not a huge fan of easy, but easy mode has a fast pace to it which I like. Normal seems like a bad compromise on the way to hard and hard just takes so long.

sinister1

2013-04-11 07:22:17 am

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Quote from Mr. K:

Oh hey there Cool Spot, it's been a while hasn't it? Last update I gave was 13:57? I decided it was high time I finally finish this game. So I've got a run done. It clocks in at about 12:06. It destroys most of the IL videos that I posted. Only a couple are a few seconds faster. These include Pier Pressure, Radical Rails, and Surf Patrol. Every other level is slightly or significantly faster. I found major improvements for Toying Around and Wound Up. Back to the Wall had a couple minor slip ups with some lucky breaks to make it even, and Dock and Roll could have been faster with better bee luck, but that level is brutal. Sub 12 is possible, but I think I'm going to have my celebratory 7up and call it a day.

Nice work Mr. Mayor!! <insert bad pun about how cool you are here>

Mr. K

2013-04-13 04:54:02 pm

Yes

Thanks Sinister! So I just finished this game on Hard Mode spelling UNCOLA and no continues (I didn't feel comfortable submitting a run until I had). I can officially say that I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT RUN THIS GAME ON HARD. Surf Patrol on hard mode is the destroyer of dreams, the duke of devastation, the titan of terror, and the overseer of oblivion. So many bees.

Mr. K

2013-05-09 10:19:15 am

Yes

I've decided to go for sub 12 and won't be submitting until I do. It looks like with some routing tweaks the time I need can come off of Back to the Wall and Dock and Roll. The consistency is going to take a major dive and I'll have to grind the heck out of these levels, but sub 12.

sinister1

2013-05-09 10:24:37 am

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Quote from Mr. K:

I can officially say that I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT RUN THIS GAME ON HARD.

You know, that is what one Mick Williams once said about Sub Terrania...

Good luck with the sub 12 grind!

Bobo the King

2013-05-18 05:10:36 am

Once upon a time, this was to be the first TAS I ever made. Route planning absolutely killed that dream, so I have some appreciation for how difficult this game can be. Well done, Mr. K!

UraniumAnchor

2013-05-18 11:36:39 pm

Not a walrus

I'm pretty sure it'd be easier to write a bot to route a TAS for this game out than to figure it out yourself. I'm not even kidding.

Bobo the King

2013-05-24 06:47:20 am

Funny you should say that, since I've carved out a little bit of a reputation as a botter. I strongly disagree, however. The spots are dispersed so randomly in most levels (Are Wading Around and Loco Motive linear enough?) and the physics would be hard to program, even heuristically, so a bot's complexity would be far too large.

It's like asking someone to do a speedrun of a game that's based on the traveling salesman problem. I think that even after this speedrun and the TAS are completed and published, improvements will be made on this game for years.

darbian

2013-09-03 06:19:51 pm

I've started learning this game using Mr. K's current best run. I'll update as I find improvements, and will be using the in-game time remaining to tell if something is faster or not. The only thing I have so far is that one the first level it is possible to get a 5:34 if you avoid getting hit by the hermit early on. You can do a shorter hop to land in front of the crab and then a full jump to get over them both without losing momentum. Obviously it's more difficult and only saves a little time, but it's so early in the run that I figure it's worth it.

Mr. K

2013-09-03 08:09:46 pm

Yes

Hey Darbian, glad to hear that you're working on this too! You're looking at the 12:07 run I have on my YT right? The routes it uses have some improvements over the IL routes I posted here. There are still some major improvements to Back to the Wall and I'm still tinkering with Dock and Roll. These improvements should put sub 12 well within reach. As of right now I'm working on understanding a few momentum related things in Pier Pressure that are saving/costing time and I'm still not quite settled on Wound Up. I'm pretty happy with Toy Time. Radical Rails is stealing a second from me and I'll probably try and reclaim it. If you've got improvements to other stages, please post videos. I may pick up running this game again, I'm just juggling so many projects right now that it's been a bit tricky for me to give Cool Spot the time it deserves. Best of luck with your routing and any future plans for this game!

darbian

Edit history:

darbian: 2013-09-05 05:09:23 pm

2013-09-04 07:26:14 pm

Yep, I learned from your YT video. I learned the routes on emulator and have since switched to console. Switching from my LCD computer monitor to CRT tv required a bit of adjustment due to less lag on the TV but I think I got it now. Unfortunately, I play best on console and there isn't an easy way (that I know of) to stage select on easy difficulty. There's a debug screen that I can access to choose a level, but it doesn't let me choose a difficulty. This makes it hard to grind a level for a video. I think I'm going to start streaming my runs (twitch.tv/darbian) and can just make highlights and post them here.

Here are my current IL PBs compared to the times in your WR video. These are all in game time remaining, so the difference might be +/- close to a second. I have found a acceleration glitch that works on Wading Around to quickly get to the right side of the level. Dock and Roll uses your route for the most part, although with minor adjustments. Outside of those 2 levels it's pretty even.

Shell Shock | WR 5:33 | PB 5:34 | -1
Pier Pressure | WR 7:10 | PB 7:13 | -3
Off Da Wall | WR 7:01 | | PB 7:03 | -2
Wading Around | WR 7:35 | PB 7:43 | -8
Toying Around | WR 7:14 | PB 7:12 | +2
Radical Rails | WR 5:43 | PB 5:44 | -1
Wound Up | WR 7:17 | PB 7:20 | -3
Loco Motive | WR 7:20 | PB 7:21 | -1
Back to the Wall | WR 6:47 | PB 6:53 | -6
Dock and Roll | WR 6:57 | PB 7:08 | -11
Surf Patrol | WR 5:29 | PB 5:29 | +0

I'll post twitch highlights as I come close to or beat these PBs.

Yep, I learned from your YT video.  I learned the routes on emulator and have since switched to console.  Switching from my LCD computer monitor to CRT tv required a bit of adjustment due to less lag on the TV but I think I got it now.  Unfortunately, I play best on console and there isn't an easy way (that I know of) to stage select on easy difficulty.  There's a debug screen that I can access to choose a level, but it doesn't let me choose a difficulty.  This makes it hard to grind a level for a video.  I think I'm going to start streaming my runs (twitch.tv/darbian)  and can just make highlights and post them here.

Here are my current IL PBs compared to the times in your WR video.  These are all in game time remaining, so the difference might be +/- close to a second.  I have found a acceleration glitch that works on Wading Around to quickly get to the right side of the level.  Dock and Roll uses your route for the most part, although with minor adjustments.  Outside of those 2 levels it's pretty even.

Shell Shock | WR 5:33 | PB 5:34 | -1
Pier Pressure | WR 7:10 | PB 7:13 | -3
Off Da Wall | WR 7:01 | | PB 7:03 | -2
Wading Around | WR 7:35 | PB 7:43 | -8
Toying Around | WR 7:14 | PB 7:12 | +2
Radical Rails | WR 5:43 | PB 5:44 | -1
Wound Up | WR 7:17 | PB 7:20 | -3
Loco Motive | WR 7:20 | PB 7:21 | -1
Back to the Wall | WR 6:47 | PB 6:53 | -6
Dock and Roll | WR 6:57 | PB 7:08 | -11
Surf Patrol | WR 5:29 | PB 5:29 | +0

I'll post twitch highlights as I come close to or beat these PBs.

Mr. K

Edit history:

Mr. K: 2013-09-05 09:20:14 am

Mr. K: 2013-09-05 09:18:07 am

2013-09-05 09:16:55 am

Yes

Wow, that Dock and Roll time. I'd love to see your route for it. Is it more consistent? With your routing changes to that stage alone sub 12 is possible. Combine that with the changes to Back to the Wall and we've got a pretty good run going here. I'd also be interested in seeing if you made any changes to Toying Around.

Edit: Your wading around time is also significantly faster. Were you using the weird acceleration glitch?

darbian

2013-09-05 12:22:25 pm

Dock and Roll route is the same as yours with one spot skipped earlier and made up for on the ropes near the end, where there's an abundance of spots.

On Back to the Wall, I get 2 extra spots early on, which allows you to skip the last one you have to jump for before the final mouse trap, and also prevents you from having to get any spots on the second floor above the cage at the end.

For Wading Around I do use the acceleration glitch (I'll call it super jumping for now for lack of a better name) - it allows you to hit the right side of the map with just 7 jumps. You don't pick up enough spots on the way to finish the level so you need to collect a few at the end, but it is still faster. It seems to work on anything sitting in the water, and also UFOs. This means you can technically do it on Loco Motive, but I haven't found a way to save much time by doing that yet.

I'll load up the emulator and try to get videos showing these 3 levels tonight. I might not match my pb, but it will be enough to understand what I'm doing.

For Toying Around, I'm using your exact strategy, I haven't gotten a good run on this level for some reason. Outside of route changes I think there are opportunities to preserve momentum by getting hit less, but I haven't tried changing anything up. I generally try to match your time and then look for additional time savers.

BTW, thanks for sharing your progress/routes up until this point. I'm not very good at routing whole levels from scratch, but I really enjoy improving existing methods. I think there's still a lot of optimization to be had. I wouldn't be surprised if sub 11:40 becomes feasible for a run.

Dock and Roll route is the same as yours with one spot skipped earlier and made up for on the ropes near the end, where there's an abundance of spots.

On Back to the Wall, I get 2 extra spots early on, which allows you to skip the last one you have to jump for before the final mouse trap, and also prevents you from having to get any spots on the second floor above the cage at the end.

For Wading Around I do use the acceleration glitch (I'll call it super jumping for now for lack of a better name) - it allows you to hit the right side of the map with just 7 jumps.  You don't pick up enough spots on the way to finish the level so you need to collect a few at the end, but it is still faster.   It seems to work on anything sitting in the water, and also UFOs.  This means you can technically do it on Loco Motive, but I haven't found a way to save much time by doing that yet.

I'll load up the emulator and try to get videos showing these 3 levels tonight.  I might not match my pb, but it will be enough to understand what I'm doing.

For Toying Around, I'm using your exact strategy, I haven't gotten a good run on this level for some reason.  Outside of route changes I think there are opportunities to preserve momentum by getting hit less, but I haven't tried changing anything up.  I generally try to match your time and then look for additional time savers.

BTW, thanks for sharing your progress/routes up until this point.  I'm not very good at routing whole levels from scratch, but I really enjoy improving existing methods.  I think there's still a lot of optimization to be had.  I wouldn't be surprised if sub 11:40 becomes feasible for a run.

darbian

2013-09-05 04:59:48 pm

Here are the videos for the stages I mentioned in my last post. I was able to match my PB on Dock and Roll as well as Back to the Wall. I was 2 seconds off on Wading Around, but you can at least see how I play the level:

darbian

2014-04-15 09:30:33 pm

7 months later......I had an amazing run a few days ago. I present a 11:27: http://www.twitch.tv/darbian/c/4050446

This also happened to be the first time Mr. K stopped by my stream, so I blame him for this run.

I don't think it's reasonable for me to try to beat this time without trying to find some additional timesavers as this was only about 10 seconds slower than my sum of best. There are some spots (pun intended) that I'm almost positive should be done differently.

I've started the submission process and uploaded the encoded videos/comments.

Thanks so much Mr. K for your work on this game. I hope to make this crazy when I revisit this game.