Continuation of Roundtable Discussion

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-11-28 08:02:09 am

2012-11-28 08:00:03 am

HELLO!

Well, in the bits of the marathon I saw, yeah, the commentators were active in the spam and spam encouragement. Which is fine. That just reinforces the point already made here: the commentary sets the tone. Runners and commentators that like that, will get that. Runners and commentators that set a tone that's about the game, will get chat that's about the game.

This was even visible in the marathon that I saw. The chat changed night and day from Siglemic to Feasel. But when Feasel's commentary slowed at bits, the chat got restless. And when the runner changed from Feasel to Cosmo (talk about an all time great timeslot for Feasel there by the way), the chat changed again.

AGDQ is going to have relevant commentary and isn't going to be all in for bonemom or whatever that was. Smiley

bangerra

2012-11-28 08:13:03 am

A funny thing I noticed is that the chat was WAAAAY more spammy during EST daytime. While during nighttime everything was much more calm and game related. You might say "graveyard shift blabla.." but there was hardly a drop in the viewercount during those times. Maybe this is because american viewers are more used to watching gaming streams and e-sports and all that stuff? I don't want to seem biased here, as I am European, but that was something I noticed.

Carcinogen

2012-11-28 08:16:30 am

Quote from Lag.Com:

So now there's been another marathon where blatant bullying has been allowed and encouraged by the community. Can we put a stop to this hateful behaviour? It only encouraged this split.

I'm going to pipe up and say I'm not particularly a fan of the bullying going on by specific SRL people either. I kept this incident hush-hush since I was worried about a shitstorm of some kind, but I think I should mention that it happened so it's out in the open and there's really no shitstorm to be had. It's pretty lacking in class though, especially since one of them is an OP in SRL.

After ESA, I got a phone call in the middle of the night (by a few people who will remain unnamed), and got set up for a nice little gangraep session on Skype in front of a stream of like 50 people. I managed to defend myself pretty well, but I was still pretty fucking confused, stunned, and felt like I got stabbed in the back by some people I thought I trusted, which is what hurts me most of all. They know who they are.

Not that any of these people have any real lasting effect on what I do in my free time since I barely interacted with them anyway, but it's a pretty fucked up that these people feel the need to put themselves on a higher tier/try to take people down a couple of notches in order to feel validation from themselves or from others. Moreover by pulling some 4chan bullshit and calling my cell phone in the middle of the goddamn night

I deliberately chose not to participate in this marathon as a direct result of that.

[quote="Lag.Com"]So now there's been another marathon where blatant bullying has been allowed and encouraged by the community. Can we put a stop to this hateful behaviour? It only encouraged this split.[/quote]
I'm going to pipe up and say I'm not particularly a fan of the bullying going on by specific SRL people either. I kept this incident hush-hush since I was worried about a shitstorm of some kind, but I think I should mention that it happened so it's out in the open and there's really no shitstorm to be had. It's pretty lacking in class though, especially since one of them is an OP in SRL.

After ESA, I got a phone call in the middle of the night (by a few people who will remain unnamed), and got set up for a nice little gangraep session on Skype in front of a stream of like 50 people. I managed to defend myself pretty well, but I was still pretty fucking confused, stunned, and felt like I got stabbed in the back by some people I thought I trusted, which is what hurts me most of all. They know who they are.

Not that any of these people have any real lasting effect on what I do in my free time since I barely interacted with them anyway, but it's a pretty fucked up that these people feel the need to put themselves on a higher tier/try to take people down a couple of notches in order to feel validation from themselves or from others. Moreover by pulling some 4chan bullshit and calling my cell phone in the middle of the goddamn night

I deliberately chose not to participate in this marathon as a direct result of that.

bangerra

2012-11-28 08:35:45 am

Oh wow.. It's sad to hear such things. I don't know how I haven't seen more of this so called bullying.. I am pretty active on both SDA and SRL and know a good few people here and there. I really am surprised people would actually do shit like this. We're all gamers after all.. Most of us at least.

Lag.Com

2012-11-28 09:28:49 am

sda loyalist

It's not my place to go into the details here, I'll wait for either of the affected parties to talk about it if they want to.

I'm aware not everybody involved in the marathon shares the views of those few that do pipe up to spew this kind of crap, but the continued silence and lack of punishment speaks volumes.

RoboSparkle

2012-11-28 12:11:42 pm

Magical. Flying. Bathtub

Wow, well that's a bit surprising - I ran Arkham City during the marathon and (to my knowledge - I only get to glance periodically at the chat) there wasn't any face-spamming from the chat and the commentators didn't do anything to encourage or discourage it. The chat was mainly focused around the game and the Batmanverse in general with a BibleThump/PICNIC spam during the couple of times when my stream went down.

On the other hand because I didn't really get to read the stream text much it's possible the chat was only well behaved when I was looking, but I was on for near enough 2 hours at a "non-graveyard" time (started about 930pm GMT on Monday) and didn't see any of what's being described. Either way, to me it sounds like it's a small minority causing problems, but that doesn't excuse it, it just means that the community as a whole doesn't deserve to be labelled in the same way by us.

I have no name

2012-11-28 12:23:38 pm

"1 bad apple spoils the bunch"
It only takes 1 person acting that way to ruin it for the rest of us. I've never had any problems with anyone from SDA, but people who originated from SRL I've had some problems with. I'd rather not go into detail due to not wanting to point fingers, but the count stands at 4 or 5 different people (and Carc, one of them is an op as well, wouldn't be surprised if it was the same one).

In general though the SRL people are pretty cool, it's just they have a slightly higher concentration of people who don't know how to deal with people in a civil manner that give the community as a whole a worse name. Just my opinion though.

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2012-11-28 05:32:18 pm

2012-11-28 02:09:47 pm

INTJ

I'd like to throw something out here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

It's not entirely accurate but I think it gets the base - It's about leader-figures. As a lot of people already said, if the commentary is focused on the game, the chat will act accordingly for the most part.

Edit: as a note - I did not witness any of the actually negative action. I put this sentence out there as a general notice

Carcinogen

2012-11-28 02:39:32 pm

btw Cosmo, I can see you're reading the thread. Would you send me a PM please? You have a pretty big FrankerZ you should be putting a leash on if you're going to leave him an OP in SRL.

jape

2012-11-28 02:55:50 pm

dang i wonder who everyone's talking about... lol

Carcinogen

2012-11-28 03:07:47 pm

I do too, but it's Cosmo's prerogative whether he wants to have certain disingenuous assholes representing his website. Which is why I'm asking him to come to me.

jape

2012-11-28 03:08:12 pm

be more paggro please

Carcinogen

2012-11-28 03:18:51 pm

Paggro? I'm feeling more like courtesy, but if that's how you want to look at it, be my guest, bud. But you're right, there's better ways of going about this than letting the world know I'm unhappy.

UraniumAnchor

2012-11-28 03:39:29 pm

Not a walrus

Not explicitly calling somebody out is apparently being passive-aggressive now?

ChristosOwen

2012-11-28 03:40:02 pm

I feel like the negative discussion of the past #smw and sanython marathons which happened over here on threads on SDA unfortunately kind of takes away from what they both achieved - which was raising money for two amazing causes. Both marathons were a blast, why can't people just chill a bit more and get in the spirit of whatever the marathon is like? Nothing will please all the people all the time, so just relax and have a swell time, and roll with it. If you'd prefer a different chat, well then you'll get your different chat come January anyway, and that marathon will also be a huge success and will be a success in the way the people organising it choose it to be. I just wish people would stop knocking something because it's not their cup of tea.

It's just my opinion but I don't see the benefit of posting conflicting arguments on a thread here; if people have problems with other people, go resolve them on IRC or something. Most of the time it will always take two to tango anyway, so reacting to what other people say and/or stirring the pot will of course lead to angrier comments or whatnot from people.

On another note, massive congratulations to Goobi, and everyone else who helped to organise this marathon.

I feel like the negative discussion of the past #smw and sanython marathons which happened over here on threads on SDA unfortunately kind of takes away from what they both achieved - which was raising money for two amazing causes. Both marathons were a blast, why can't people just chill a bit more and get in the spirit of whatever the marathon is like? Nothing will please all the people all the time, so just relax and have a swell time, and roll with it. If you'd prefer a different chat, well then you'll get your different chat come January anyway, and that marathon will also be a huge success and will be a success in the way the people organising it choose it to be. I just wish people would stop knocking something because it's not their cup of tea.

It's just my opinion but I don't see the benefit of posting conflicting arguments on a thread here; if people have problems with other people, go resolve them on IRC or something. Most of the time it will always take two to tango anyway, so reacting to what other people say and/or stirring the pot will of course lead to angrier comments or whatnot from people.

On another note, massive congratulations to Goobi, and everyone else who helped to organise this marathon.

jape

2012-11-28 03:46:31 pm

Quote from ChristosOwen:

I feel like the negative discussion of the past #smw and sanython marathons which happened over here on threads on SDA unfortunately kind of takes away from what they both achieved - which was raising money for two amazing causes. Both marathons were a blast, why can't people just chill a bit more and get in the spirit of whatever the marathon is like? Nothing will please all the people all the time, so just relax and have a swell time, and roll with it. If you'd prefer a different chat, well then you'll get your different chat come January anyway, and that marathon will also be a huge success and will be a success in the way the people organising it choose it to be. I just wish people would stop knocking something because it's not their cup of tea.

It's just my opinion but I don't see the benefit of posting conflicting arguments on a thread here; if people have problems with other people, go resolve them on IRC or something. Most of the time it will always take two to tango anyway, so reacting to what other people say and/or stirring the pot will of course lead to angrier comments or whatnot from people.

On another note, massive congratulations to Goobi, and everyone else who helped to organise this marathon.

good post & thank you

[quote="ChristosOwen"]I feel like the negative discussion of the past #smw and sanython marathons which happened over here on threads on SDA unfortunately kind of takes away from what they both achieved - which was raising money for two amazing causes. Both marathons were a blast, why can't people just chill a bit more and get in the spirit of whatever the marathon is like? Nothing will please all the people all the time, so just relax and have a swell time, and roll with it. If you'd prefer a different chat, well then you'll get your different chat come January anyway, and that marathon will also be a huge success and will be a success in the way the people organising it choose it to be. I just wish people would stop knocking something because it's not their cup of tea.

It's just my opinion but I don't see the benefit of posting conflicting arguments on a thread here; if people have problems with other people, go resolve them on IRC or something. Most of the time it will always take two to tango anyway, so reacting to what other people say and/or stirring the pot will of course lead to angrier comments or whatnot from people.

On another note, massive congratulations to Goobi, and everyone else who helped to organise this marathon.[/quote]

good post & thank you

UraniumAnchor

2012-11-28 03:46:47 pm

Not a walrus

I'm pretty sure the chat rules are not the issue that people are having here. I think face spam is annoying, but clearly a lot of people don't and that doesn't really detract from the experience for me because I can just tune it out when it gets obnoxious. There were a few issues I saw in the chat that went beyond simple spam that probably I probably would have done something about if I was responsible for it, but the people they were targeted at were mods in the channel and they either missed it or didn't care so I can just shrug about that too.

Bringing up the handful of big issues that people had with the event isn't meant to bring it down as a whole, because I think most people can agree that raising that much money to help out a good cause is a wonderful thing. But on the flip side of that coin that doesn't excuse some of the behavior that I saw being engaged in, and writing it off as people being too sensitive is missing the point entirely.

Paraxade

Edit history:

Paraxade: 2012-11-28 03:50:10 pm

2012-11-28 03:49:56 pm

Incidents like that do need to be publicized to a certain extent; after all, nobody can act on it if they don't know it happened.

Anyhow, yeah, stuff like this does tend to happen a lot. I've seen it mainly coming from #srl and #zelda, and it does need to stop, but as it's not happening on SDA it's up to the people running those communities (or Cosmo since he owns both) to do something about it. Staff especially should be held to a high standard as their actions directly reflect on the community that they're running.

Though I'm not sure how bullying during the marathons somehow turned into talking about the marathon chats being spammy. That's an irrelevant discussion that we've already been over in the #smw thread.

UraniumAnchor

2012-11-28 03:51:25 pm

Not a walrus

Just in case you need a more succinct statement: The overall chat rules are not the issue people are talking about, because that's essentially a solved issue, so bringing it up again it just distracting from the genuine problems people have.

CosmoWright

2012-11-28 03:55:10 pm

I do not feel I am in any position to try to resolve issues that people have with each other in the community just because I designed a website

Finapse

Edit history:

Finapse: 2012-11-28 04:06:27 pm

2012-11-28 04:03:27 pm

Quote from CosmoWright:

I do not feel I am in any position to try to resolve issues that people have with each other in the community just because I designed a website

Having watched the #speedrunslive channel over the last few weeks, I can say that as the owner of a community, you really have an obligation to either handle the issues or appoint people who can if you don't feel you're capable.

The community in #speedrunslive is often hostile to people and I've seen them say "fuck off and go make your own damn website, then" when presented with any sort of suggestion.

The few people I've spoken with in private about it seem to agree that something needs done, and from the sounds of it there's some bad blood going around even between typical speedrunners. It needs to stop.

Addendum:

Quote:

It's not entirely accurate but I think it gets the base - It's about leader-figures. As a lot of people already said, if the commentary is focused on the game, the chat will act accordingly for the most part.

This is also true. If you want the spam in chats to stop, you need to make it stop. Tell them to knock it off. Alternatively, stop calling for a flood of FrankerZ and start handing out temporary timeouts for the worst offenders (e.g., the several-line bonemom spam, or whatever it was).

[quote="CosmoWright"]I do not feel I am in any position to try to resolve issues that people have with each other in the community just because I designed a website[/quote]
Having watched the #speedrunslive channel over the last few weeks, I can say that as the owner of a community, you really have an obligation to either handle the issues or appoint people who can if you don't feel you're capable.

The community in #speedrunslive is often hostile to people and I've seen them say "fuck off and go make your own damn website, then" when presented with any sort of suggestion.

The few people I've spoken with in private about it seem to agree that something needs done, and from the sounds of it there's some bad blood going around even between typical speedrunners. It needs to stop.

Addendum:
[quote]It's not entirely accurate but I think it gets the base - It's about leader-figures. As a lot of people already said, if the commentary is focused on the game, the chat will act accordingly for the most part.[/quote]
This is also true. If you want the spam in chats to stop, you need to make it stop. Tell them to knock it off. Alternatively, stop calling for a flood of FrankerZ and start handing out temporary timeouts for the worst offenders (e.g., the several-line bonemom spam, or whatever it was).

CVagts

2012-11-28 04:05:43 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

"often hostile to people" seems like a gross exaggeration, I've never seen SRL be openly hostile to people for simply suggesting things.

RoboSparkle

2012-11-28 04:08:26 pm

Magical. Flying. Bathtub

Quote from CVagts:

"often hostile to people" seems like a gross exaggeration, I've never seen SRL be openly hostile to people for simply suggesting things.

This exactly, word for word. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I've not seen it.

zastbat

Edit history:

zastbat: 2012-11-28 04:10:20 pm

zastbat: 2012-11-28 04:10:18 pm

zastbat: 2012-11-28 04:10:17 pm

2012-11-28 04:09:30 pm

Lord Of The Beards

Quote from RoboSparkle:

Quote from CVagts:

"often hostile to people" seems like a gross exaggeration, I've never seen SRL be openly hostile to people for simply suggesting things.

This exactly, word for word. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I've not seen it.

But seriously i have never seen so much hatred for certain people before this thread. Most of the SRL community seems nice enough it just seems like a bunch of people have specific problems with specific people. I'm fine with the chat spam no problem with that but now it seems like this thread has just turned into a hate fest which could be a problem.

Chrno

Edit history:

Chrno: 2012-11-28 04:11:19 pm

2012-11-28 04:11:12 pm

WOW.

Quote from Finapse:

Having watched the #speedrunslive channel over the last few weeks, I can say that as the owner of a community, you really have an obligation to either handle the issues or appoint people who can if you don't feel you're capable.

That's wrong. Just because Cosmo is the owner of a channel does not mean he is responsible for it's users and their actions, much like how he is not responsible for the actions of people that visit and use the chat in his stream for example. If I was having an argument on #sda, I would not expect an admin on that channel to come in and interfere.