Contact(DS) Routing/Testing(FIRST FULL RUN COMPLETE!)

Monsyphon

Edit history:

Monsyphon: 2014-02-07 08:13:58 am

Monsyphon: 2014-02-07 07:20:27 am

Monsyphon: 2014-02-07 05:11:58 am

Monsyphon: 2014-02-07 03:12:22 am

2014-02-07 02:35:56 am

Really ManoxMano

-The bats are somewhat annoying to EP grind bc at certain levels they will run away far as opposed to attacking. Even as they attack they have a hypnosis spell which is the worst. I will have to do some more math on EP grinding, then we can be really choosey over whom to kill for EP, streamlining the whole thing much easier

-I found that attacking the man blocking the doorway from the left, and running in a counter-clockwise motion into the door is the easiest way to get in there

-Since I do the Chef strat for grinding $$$, I don't feel the need to be running out of the main path for chests/items. If I did go for the chests, it would be even more pointless to get the Chef outfit.

-Oh yeah...since we do the STR boost before the fights Dual Flash would be doing more damage...good point. Revising route

-Again, I'm not taking any detours to get any chests (save for a fruit knife) which means many things. When dying in Caldoxia, I'm dying to the mewtwos outside the boss room as opposed to the monsters near the big chest. That's one example, many others I can cite. I really don't know if all that totals to be a time saver but we'd both have to get our routes perfect to see the difference. Or I can time how long it takes to go out of the way to get a chest, and time how long it takes to skip it...many other things. At the same time, 1250 gold is only needed to get 15 potions, which is things go solid is enough to beat Fort Eagle. You'd have to grind harder in Aegis but the weapons dealer gives out crazy expensive items so it's not that big a deal. I feel like taking your side on this just for the sake of moving on to other things but the chef strat is my strat I gotta defend it xD

-The channels are confusing, there are shapes which mean something on the bottom right but I dont know what. I'll look on GameFAQS if they have anything on it.

-Flyboy - move around faster Nitro Boost - have faster fights. We move more then we fight, so Flyboy might be the better choice.

Yes if you weren't on the scene I'd be running this game alone as well. It's been fun! Let's keep this going

EDIT: I checked out your run to Defeat Snake. Some notes...
-Great Super Bug! I liked how you manipulated him even when he walked in an unfavorable way (which I consider is anything but left lol)
-Seeing the Power of 30 STR Dual Flash on the Golem, revising my route.
-Your route after Stone Golem needs to be revised. Your options are 1. Die by the mewtwos outside the boss room 2. Get the big gold chest in the previous 2 rooms (it's on my caldoxia video if you need to see) and die by the monsters. Walking back takes too much time
-When you went to sleep to go to fort eagle, you should have buffed mochi a little more, it helps in the long run. When you get a free sleep it's your time to adjust mochi to get max stats
-Good Ft Eagle. I especially liked you using the vending machine to sell stuff and make adjustments. I try to count in my head how much I have from the items I get, and go on from there. But now if I mess up in my head I can redo it all by selling it in the vending machine. You grinded a little too much, I feel ~1250 is the perfect amount.

2nd EDIT: I did a quick run to Snake...I used an online stop watch but I used the same start time as you. I got ~54 minutes before my DS ran outta battery..
3rd EDIT: Thinking about the run I did...even if I cleared up all the mistakes I did I don't think that it would be enough to match your time (assuming you rid your run of it's errors). I might just have to convert to the church of No chef route

-The bats are somewhat annoying to EP grind bc at certain levels they will run away far as opposed to attacking. Even as they attack they have a hypnosis spell which is the worst. I will have to do some more math on EP grinding, then we can be really choosey over whom to kill for EP, streamlining the whole thing much easier

-I found that attacking the man blocking the doorway from the left, and running in a counter-clockwise motion into the door is the easiest way to get in there

-Since I do the Chef strat for grinding $$$, I don't feel the need to be running out of the main path for chests/items. If I did go for the chests, it would be even more pointless to get the Chef outfit.

-Oh yeah...since we do the STR boost before the fights Dual Flash would be doing more damage...good point. Revising route

-Again, I'm not taking any detours to get any chests (save for a fruit knife) which means many things. When dying in Caldoxia, I'm dying to the mewtwos outside the boss room as opposed to the monsters near the big chest. That's one example, many others I can cite. I really don't know if all that totals to be a time saver but we'd both have to get our routes perfect to see the difference. Or I can time how long it takes to go out of the way to get a chest, and time how long it takes to skip it...many other things. At the same time, 1250 gold is only needed to get 15 potions, which is things go solid is enough to beat Fort Eagle. You'd have to grind harder in Aegis but the weapons dealer gives out crazy expensive items so it's not that big a deal. I feel like taking your side on this just for the sake of moving on to other things but the chef strat is my strat I gotta defend it xD

-The channels are confusing, there are shapes which mean something on the bottom right but I dont know what. I'll look on GameFAQS if they have anything on it.

-Flyboy - move around faster Nitro Boost - have faster fights. We move more then we fight, so Flyboy might be the better choice.

Yes if you weren't on the scene I'd be running this game alone as well. It's been fun! Let's keep this going

EDIT: I checked out your run to Defeat Snake. Some notes...
-Great Super Bug! I liked how you manipulated him even when he walked in an unfavorable way (which I consider is anything but left lol)
-Seeing the Power of 30 STR Dual Flash on the Golem, revising my route.
-Your route after Stone Golem needs to be revised. Your options are 1. Die by the mewtwos outside the boss room 2. Get the big gold chest in the previous 2 rooms (it's on my caldoxia video if you need to see) and die by the monsters. Walking back takes too much time
-When you went to sleep to go to fort eagle, you should have buffed mochi a little more, it helps in the long run. When you get a free sleep it's your time to adjust mochi to get max stats
-Good Ft Eagle. I especially liked you using the vending machine to sell stuff and make adjustments. I try to count in my head how much I have from the items I get, and go on from there. But now if I mess up in my head I can redo it all by selling it in the vending machine. You grinded a little too much, I feel ~1250 is the perfect amount.

2nd EDIT: I did a quick run to Snake...I used an online stop watch but I used the same start time as you. I got ~54 minutes before my DS ran outta battery..
3rd EDIT: Thinking about the run I did...even if I cleared up all the mistakes I did I don't think that it would be enough to match your time (assuming you rid your run of it's errors). I might just have to convert to the church of No chef route

EnkerBlues

2014-02-07 09:18:32 am

Thanks for the feedback on the run!

-The shapes at the bottom right are status effects of the floor. Heart=Damage, Bootss=Slow Movement, Sword=No attacking.

-Willing to try more strats with Flyboy. With the way I'm currently trying to route Aegis, I hold off on getting Nitro Boost until the portion of Pyramid where you have to costume equip. So my method would go like this: Flyboy, Knuckle Mole, Aqua Shot, THEN grabbing the Nitro Boost from the lady and going in to the pyramid, which would leave me with Nitro Boost through the pyramid.

As far my run goes:
-Doesn't dying take a LOOOOOONG time? You stay in the bed for like a solid minute or so it seems. Willing to revise, just need to see how much time it really saves. I also may want to run the way back so I can kill the villagers for EP grinding. Willing to revise this route.
-Ya I had a weak Mochi. If he's not doing 150+ damage to stone golem I will buff him more at Ft. Eagle.
-I need a better method of keeping up with my money. Also, since I won't be using Chef Knife, I may just stick to killing Easy Soldier to grind money, since going in and fighting Blue Soldier doesn't always yield an item. I also don't need to grind as much, yes. I just get scared T_T. Snake can sometimes cause more potions to be used than necessary, and Lester takes quite a bit. Computer uses 2-4, so 15 is REALLY scary. Will try it though.

I have been casualling all morning and have some adjustments to make to the run.
-A key is required for purchase at the Ft. Eagle, needed at Rizo Island. Costs 50 cents, not a big deal.

I'm gonna make some Aegis notes soon and start running to the Fouth Cell. Aegis is pretty straightforward, not a lot to do besides killing the merchant to get about 20-25 potions. No need to get more, Habara will be the best place to max out potions for the rest of the game.

Thanks for the feedback on the run!

-The shapes at the bottom right are status effects of the floor. Heart=Damage, Bootss=Slow Movement, Sword=No attacking.

-Willing to try more strats with Flyboy. With the way I'm currently trying to route Aegis, I hold off on getting Nitro Boost until the portion of Pyramid where you have to costume equip. So my method would go like this: Flyboy, Knuckle Mole, Aqua Shot, THEN grabbing the Nitro Boost from the lady and going in to the pyramid, which would leave me with Nitro Boost through the pyramid.

As far my run goes:
-Doesn't dying take a LOOOOOONG time? You stay in the bed for like a solid minute or so it seems. Willing to revise, just need to see how much time it really saves. I also may want to run the way back so I can kill the villagers for EP grinding. Willing to revise this route.
-Ya I had a weak Mochi. If he's not doing 150+ damage to stone golem I will buff him more at Ft. Eagle.
-I need a better method of keeping up with my money. Also, since I won't be using Chef Knife, I may just stick to killing Easy Soldier to grind money, since going in and fighting Blue Soldier doesn't always yield an item. I also don't need to grind as much, yes. I just get scared T_T. Snake can sometimes cause more potions to be used than necessary, and Lester takes quite a bit. Computer uses 2-4, so 15 is REALLY scary. Will try it though.

I have been casualling all morning and have some adjustments to make to the run.
-A key is required for purchase at the Ft. Eagle, needed at Rizo Island. Costs 50 cents, not a big deal.

I'm gonna make some Aegis notes soon and start running to the Fouth Cell. Aegis is pretty straightforward, not a lot to do besides killing the merchant to get about 20-25 potions. No need to get more, Habara will be the best place to max out potions for the rest of the game.

Monsyphon

Edit history:

Monsyphon: 2014-02-07 07:01:47 pm

Monsyphon: 2014-02-07 04:53:44 pm

2014-02-07 10:11:56 am

Really ManoxMano

-Oh I see. And maybe the + and - indicate what is currently on, or maybe what comes next...

-Dying must certainly take less time. Furthermore, you get +DEF and a bit of more extra gold. I dont know the specifics but I'd say maybe there's around 30 seconds of time saving.

-Like I said, just keep adding up the items in your head. No faster way of doing it unfortunately. I'd think 17 potions would be the most safe. 13 for ultra risky, 15 for solid but still riskyish.

-Oh yes, I was gonna mention that earlier, the extra key

Aegis is pretty simple. Only issues I see from remembering it is the tight spaces, the somewhat tough enemies, the sarchophogus mini-fights and how to actually approach the final boss

EDIT: Time to die after beating stone golem and snagging the big gold ~1:15

EDIT2: Items to buy in the future - key for Rizo Island (Ft. Eagle vending machine, 50)
- Taro Sushi to give to the Caldoxia leader for $$$$$$, which will be used to buy the Rizo Island mixtape (500)

-Oh I see. And maybe the + and - indicate what is currently on, or maybe what comes next...

-Dying must certainly take less time. Furthermore, you get +DEF and a bit of more extra gold. I dont know the specifics but I'd say maybe there's around 30 seconds of time saving.

-Like I said, just keep adding up the items in your head. No faster way of doing it unfortunately. I'd think 17 potions would be the most safe. 13 for ultra risky, 15 for solid but still riskyish.

-Oh yes, I was gonna mention that earlier, the extra key

Aegis is pretty simple. Only issues I see from remembering it is the tight spaces, the somewhat tough enemies, the sarchophogus mini-fights and how to actually approach the final boss

EDIT: Time to die after beating stone golem and snagging the big gold  ~1:15

EDIT2: Items to buy in the future - key for Rizo Island (Ft. Eagle vending machine, 50)
                                                     - Taro Sushi to give to the Caldoxia leader for $$$$$$, which will be used to buy the Rizo Island mixtape (500)

EnkerBlues

2014-02-07 07:33:48 pm

-I thought + would mean "Go to next channel" and - would mean "go to previously played channel". This is not the case at all.

-For dying, I see that it is 1:15...is that 1:15 to snag the gold AND die or to snag the gold, die and then gain control of Terry again?

-I'll go for 15 for a while to see if I can get a consistent strat on how not to use them all up.

-Aegis is REALLY easy. Just a lot of running. Bull Beatnix doesn't take long to kill. There is a room where you are trapped with 4 enemies. The ? Decal Comes in handy there. Use it and the door opens. You can also kill the animals to EP grind a little bit for the Sarchophogus fight. Using Mochi for the Sarcophogus will really simplify things.

-As far as buying the sushi and going back to Caldoaxa to trade the sushi...couldn't you just kill the guy to get the Blue Sky March? I'll test to see what the chances of him dropping it are, if it's high enough that would easily be the best solution.

Monsyphon

2014-02-07 10:27:38 pm

Really ManoxMano

- From FemmeFetale's GAMEFAQs guide: "Tap the [-] button to change the channel on the top
screen...The scientists up above activate the damaging floor and
the soldiers' respawn. How fast they do this depends on what channel is on the
television. In theory... you should be able to keep the television always on
the best channel.

-Oh sorry let me clarify. in 1:15....head to the room w/gold, get it, and die by whatever monsters are there. Then gain control and go into the Prof's room

-I think it mostly depends on if there's criticals, and if the perma-lock on Lester happens.

- I didn't know he dropped the tape. try it out. I'd suspect a visit to the Caldoxia guy takes..3-5 minutes after getting sushi

EnkerBlues

2014-02-07 10:59:08 pm

-Just tested the Blue Sky March guy....killed him 25 times, no tape. Sushi strat is in. It actually takes very little time. We'll have to suffer through a side-quest scene, but after that it's not bad. 3 minutes sounds about max.

-Sounds like dying may be the best way.

-Getting a perma-lock on Lester is pretty hard, but it is doable. I also remember another time where I was able to evade his attacks after I hit him. I had to get a certain distance, hit, then walk away, and repeat. Gonna try this a bit more.

I'm gonna try beating the rest of the game soon and maybe attempting a full run, however imperfect it may be. I think the hardest part is DI-Fort Eagle routing. Those sections set up the rest of the game. With what I've been able to see, this game is over 50% routed. Full runs can happen soon.

Monsyphon

2014-02-08 12:51:20 am

Really ManoxMano

-Habara and Final Dungeon seems simple enough...Grind potions in habara, enough for both dungeons. Run through all enemies, beat required fights. Done. Time should stop the second Mint drops to the ground. What really matters is when to use the decals, and which costume will be used.

-While your strat sounds like you wont get hit, you might be taking too much time trying to evade him. I've never seen it but that's just my impression. Not sure if it translates.

I want to def. get to getting a whole route to this game. I'll start running from Aegis-End so we can get that all figured out

EnkerBlues

2014-02-08 02:40:27 pm

-Regarding the Lester fight, it really doesn't lose time. It goes right in rhythm with Terry's hits.

EnkerBlues

Edit history:

EnkerBlues: 2014-02-09 10:14:26 pm

2014-02-09 09:29:20 pm

Ok, just did the final area and have some things to bring up

-The mini giant mini boss can be ? Decal'd.
-Dragon takes FOREVER. For first phase I use normal hits, no EP no decals.
-For Lester/Bull I used the Mochi Decal and the Sun/Moon decal. The sun/moon decal is risky but worth it. If it lands on Sun, it dishes out 285 damage to both, on top of the 180+ that Mochi can deal, it makes REAL short work of that phase of the fight. The Sun only does about 80 on the Dragon, so not worth it to use.
-Phase 2 Dragon is where I dumped all my EP. From then on, normal hits.
-Mint is barely worth noting. As long as potions are present, nothing to worry about.
-For the final fight I used around 40 potions. This can be reduced with dodging the elemental Dragon attacks and taking slightly less risks to get hits in.
-I used Nitro Boost because that's what I used for Aegis/Habara. Seemed to work out well since Dragon's favorite move is the Fireball, so I only take about 10 damage. Willing to try other costumes.

EDIT: After routing Habara some more, I think the total Potions after grinding in Habara can be safe at 75. I used 11, but even that was with an imperfect run through there. I could have used 2-3 less. I'll be posting my Aegis/Habara route by tomorrow or so.

Ok, just did the final area and have some things to bring up

-The mini giant mini boss can be ? Decal'd.
-Dragon takes FOREVER. For first phase I use normal hits, no EP no decals.
-For Lester/Bull I used the Mochi Decal and the Sun/Moon decal. The sun/moon decal is risky but worth it. If it lands on Sun, it dishes out 285 damage to both, on top of the 180+ that Mochi can deal, it makes REAL short work of that phase of the fight. The Sun only does about 80 on the Dragon, so not worth it to use.
-Phase 2 Dragon is where I dumped all my EP. From then on, normal hits.
-Mint is barely worth noting. As long as potions are present, nothing to worry about.
-For the final fight I used around 40 potions. This can be reduced with dodging the elemental Dragon attacks and taking slightly less risks to get hits in.
-I used Nitro Boost because that's what I used for Aegis/Habara. Seemed to work out well since Dragon's favorite move is the Fireball, so I only take about 10 damage. Willing to try other costumes.

EDIT: After routing Habara some more, I think the total Potions after grinding in Habara can be safe at 75. I used 11, but even that was with an imperfect run through there. I could have used 2-3 less. I'll be posting my Aegis/Habara route by tomorrow or so.

Monsyphon

2014-02-09 10:38:10 pm

Really ManoxMano

-Do you think grinding in Aegis is faster than Habara? I feel that Aegis' weapon dealer is more likely to give out solid drops while Harabara's not only has lesser chances but also drops cheap stuff like Strawberry Milk

-I have only been getting to Habara but the soldiers during Dragons and Dragons are a pain. I'm playing way too risky and end up dying, which is a GIANT pain in habara

-As for the pyramid boss in Aegis, it feels like he is only vunerable during the sunset/light phase, and the Earth phase is a waste. Maybe just wait it out for the switch?

-40 for the dragon alone?! That's very suprising

secv

2014-02-09 10:54:09 pm

Cool to see this game getting some attention, nice work!

EnkerBlues

Edit history:

EnkerBlues: 2014-02-10 04:03:46 pm

EnkerBlues: 2014-02-10 02:35:41 pm

EnkerBlues: 2014-02-10 12:51:22 pm

EnkerBlues: 2014-02-10 12:27:09 pm

2014-02-10 06:22:30 am

-I think the merchant has a better chance yes...but I think Habara is faster since you can kill the 3 other citizens in the main lobby and they drop some BIIIIIG money(400 or so). I still think Habara wins. Willing to test, though!

-They are quite the pain and they are the source of my Potion use. The "Boss" knight is easily discarded with the ? Decal, and the 3 soldiers on the bridge is where I use my EP(2 for the first, 2 for the second, 1 for third...although it could be 2 for the third as well since killing the 2 knights may grant another EP. Will test)

-I've hit him during the Earth by getting really lucky. Had to be the first hit I landed on one of the images.

-Oh no, I should have rephrased! I meant 40 potions during the final fight, meaning the WHOLE segment (from dragon-first phase to mint). 40 potions in total.

EDIT: Just did a test of making money. The Habara route, even with bad drops(I didn't get much, like less than I've ever done before) made more money in a 2 minute time frame than the Aegis merchant. It seems Habara would be better for money, including the fact that if you grinded potions in Aegis, it would most definitely need to be 99 Potions to last the whole game.

EDIT2: Did a test with the Balloon decal. This may be iffy since I'm using an emulator and can basically get the size as big as it can get by pressing a hotkey, but dang does that thing do some big damage. It can come in handy to do extra damage without getting hurt and fighting Lester and Bull/Dragon/Mint.

EDIT3: I'm gonna need you to let me know how easy it is to get the max damage from Balloon Decal by blowing. If it's relatively easy I won't feel too bad about using Balloon Strats...but if it's super hard then I may have to put an * on any run that I do because it is almost tool assisted. Unless I can link the emulator to an actual mic and blow in it. I'm going to be revising the final fight sequence a bit. Here's what I'm thinking:
-Dragon(1st Phase): Regular attacks, this will seem like a grind, but I don't think using Mochi/Ballon/5EP Dual Flash is the time to use this.
-Lester/Bull: Take a risk and use Sun/Moon decal. This can dish out some good damage to both of them. Trap yourself in the bottom right hand corner to isolate Lester. I use 1 Dual Flash on him to wear him down a bit, and then regular attack him and Bull.
-Dragon(Phase 2): Since he attacks faster, and moves around a bit more, I go all out on him as soon as he sets up for a Fire Attack. Balloon Decal(325-350damage), Mochi((150), 5 EP Dual Flash(this can vary. Lots of attacks miss, some are crits). This takes the dragon down significantly. This also reduces the need for potions.
-Mint: I actually thought this was a guaranteed easy fest, but she can actually stun lock if she uses the fist attack. This last test I did, she locked me for 6 hits straight, and then 5 hits straight another time. Equipping the Royal Dagger can remedy this, but I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Also, I tested Habara through the end with 60 potions. Ended with 7. I had to use a couple because of mistakes walking through the castle that made me get hit a bunch. I'm guessing this segment could be done with 55 potions if everything works correctly. Safe bet is 65, super safe is 70. I only used 8 potions in Habara using the Balloon Decal on the last bridge Knight in Dragons and Dragons.

EDIT 4: I think there is a way for me to blow in to my physical headset mic...I'll try this out to make everything on equal ground.

-I think the merchant has a better chance yes...but I think Habara is faster since you can kill the 3 other citizens in the main lobby and they drop some BIIIIIG money(400 or so). I still think Habara wins. Willing to test, though!

-They are quite the pain and they are the source of my Potion use. The "Boss" knight is easily discarded with the ? Decal, and the 3 soldiers on the bridge is where I use my EP(2 for the first, 2 for the second, 1 for third...although it could be 2 for the third as well since killing the 2 knights may grant another EP. Will test)

-I've hit him during the Earth by getting really lucky. Had to be the first hit I landed on one of the images.

-Oh no, I should have rephrased! I meant 40 potions during the final fight, meaning the WHOLE segment (from dragon-first phase to mint). 40 potions in total.

EDIT: Just did  a test of making money. The Habara route, even with bad drops(I didn't get much, like less than I've ever done before) made more money in a 2 minute time frame than the Aegis  merchant. It seems Habara would be better for money, including the fact that if you grinded potions in Aegis, it would most definitely need to be 99 Potions to last the whole game.

EDIT2: Did a test with the Balloon decal. This may be iffy since I'm using an emulator and can basically get the size as big as it can get by pressing a hotkey, but dang does that thing do some big damage. It can come in handy to do extra damage without getting hurt and fighting Lester and Bull/Dragon/Mint.

EDIT3: I'm gonna need you to let me know how easy it is to get the max damage from Balloon Decal by blowing. If it's relatively easy I won't feel too bad about using Balloon Strats...but if it's super hard then I may have to put an * on any run that I do because it is almost tool assisted. Unless I can link the emulator to an actual mic and blow in it. I'm going to be revising the final fight sequence a bit. Here's what I'm thinking:
-Dragon(1st Phase): Regular attacks, this will seem like a grind, but I don't think using Mochi/Ballon/5EP Dual Flash is the time to use this.
-Lester/Bull: Take a risk and use Sun/Moon decal. This can dish out some good damage to both of them. Trap yourself in the bottom right hand corner to isolate Lester. I use 1 Dual Flash on him to wear him down a bit, and then regular attack him and Bull.
-Dragon(Phase 2): Since he attacks faster, and moves around a bit more, I go all out on him as soon as he sets up for a Fire Attack. Balloon Decal(325-350damage), Mochi((150), 5 EP Dual Flash(this can vary. Lots of attacks miss, some are crits). This takes the dragon down significantly. This also reduces the need for potions.
-Mint: I actually thought this was a guaranteed easy fest, but she can actually stun lock if she uses the fist attack. This last test I did, she locked me for 6 hits straight, and then 5 hits straight another time. Equipping the Royal Dagger can remedy this, but I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Also, I tested Habara through the end with 60 potions. Ended with 7. I had to use a couple because of mistakes walking through the castle that made me get hit a bunch. I'm guessing this segment could be done with 55 potions if everything works correctly. Safe bet is 65, super safe is 70. I only used 8 potions in Habara using the Balloon Decal on the last bridge Knight in Dragons and Dragons.

EDIT 4: I think there is a way for me to blow in to my physical headset mic...I'll try this out to make everything on equal ground.

Monsyphon

Edit history:

Monsyphon: 2014-02-10 04:54:33 pm

2014-02-10 04:53:17 pm

Really ManoxMano

-Ok I saw your your edit and I see your point. I kinda had that feeling as well when I got 4000 in a few minutes. Incidentally I saw the 400+ gold icon and I laughed out of my seat! It's so giant!

-Hmm I use the ? Decal for the racing cars, but I should switch that and use the Balloon instead b/c the knight def. takes more time. I trap the first knight but the tight ghost sections and the bridge are the worst parts. I use a bit of EP during the entrance because you can make up the difference later.

- I'll do some Balloon testing in my future runs

- I got to the final fight and I see the difficulty. Gonna have to practice a lot more!

EDIT: I don't know if you do this or not but instead of actually grinding in Aegis everytime I pass by the main section of the town I kill the guy for a weapon. By the time I have to get Nitro Boost I have lots of money to go and buy the Parts and extra potions

EnkerBlues

2014-02-10 07:11:14 pm

-Dude, the giant coin is unreasonably big. Definitely took me by pleasant surprise too

-I was using ? on the race cars as well, but those don't take as long to kill as the Knight. I guess balloon could work on the Race Cars, I just think the damage would be better suited for a knight, since they are pretty dangerous, whereas the cars only take a Mochi and a couple hits to kill. Something I've been messing with is getting myself in the middle of them and then using Mochi, then using Double Attack to do some more damage. This way, they can all blow up on me and the fight ends sooner, and I have Balloon for one of the knights in Dragons and Dragons. It may all even out, so I'll test it a few times.

-DUDE, genius idea to just kill the guy in passing. That would save quite a bit of time. I always think it's going to take forever to grind potions, but then I remember it's only 1600 for 20 potions. Not bad at all.

-Been trying to find the best way to grind EP post-Habara, since Dragons and Dragons takes it all. I was thinking of just going back to Habara to kill everyone in the Lobby. Killing any monsters in Akumojo or Rizo island may be too risky on potions.

-I'm going to be doing my first official run of this game next week, would love it if you could stop by and see it(my twitch name is the same as the one here). Huge credit to you and the notes we've been bouncing back and forth. I honestly wouldn't have thought of some of this stuff without you. Thanks, man.

-Dude, the giant coin is unreasonably big. Definitely took me by pleasant surprise too

-I was using ? on the race cars as well, but those don't take as long to kill as the Knight. I guess balloon could work on the Race Cars, I just think the damage would be better suited for a knight, since they are pretty dangerous, whereas the cars only take a Mochi and a couple hits to kill. Something I've been messing with is getting myself in the middle of them and then using Mochi, then using Double Attack to do some more damage. This way, they can all blow up on me and the fight ends sooner, and I have Balloon for one of the knights in Dragons and Dragons. It may all even out, so I'll test it a few times.

-DUDE, genius idea to just kill the guy in passing. That would save quite a bit of time. I always think it's going to take forever to grind potions, but then I remember it's only 1600 for 20 potions. Not bad at all.

-Been trying to find the best way to grind EP post-Habara, since Dragons and Dragons takes it all. I was thinking of just going back to Habara to kill everyone in the Lobby. Killing any monsters in Akumojo or Rizo island may be too risky on potions.

-I'm going to be doing my first official run of this game next week, would love it if you could stop by and see it(my twitch name is the same as the one here). Huge credit to you and the notes we've been bouncing back and forth. I honestly wouldn't have thought of some of this stuff without you. Thanks, man.

Monsyphon

Edit history:

Monsyphon: 2014-02-10 10:20:33 pm

2014-02-10 10:19:30 pm

Really ManoxMano

-There's never a point (I think) where 2 knights are in the same room, which kind of lessens the overall power. I like to save Mochi in case I get surrounded by ghosts, but I'd probably use Mochi on the very last Knight. ? Decal for the megakngiht, and Balloon for the race cars.

-Thank you : )

-EP grinding the villagers before Rizo is probably the best idea. In fact, all the potion grinding for the endgame should be done at that point. If more potion needed to be bought before Harbara then you could take out the dealers once or twice for 10-20 potions. So itd be like potion grind till 15-20 -->Harbara-->EP+potion grind --> Rizo

-Dude if it wasn't for you I'd still be trying to Gut the Stone Golem. This has been really fun and I hope we can find some glitches or even better routes. I'll definitely spread the word when you start up on whatever places I can.

EnkerBlues

2014-02-10 10:29:52 pm

-That sounds like a decent strat. I'll try using that and vary it up on later runs if need be. Those ghosts are the biggest pain in my rear, man.

-Good idea again. The less potions you have to buy at a time, the more time saved from buying potions the better. This could save a good 30 seconds depending on how many potions you grind or end up with after Habara.

Monsyphon

2014-02-11 08:38:04 am

Really ManoxMano

Here's a vid on the Caldoxia changes

Thoughts?

EnkerBlues

2014-02-11 12:03:13 pm

Looks good to me! For me, I'm gonna still prefer to use Trickle on that guy, less risky, a bit faster and doesn't take that long to grind the EP back. I'm gonna practice getting that money and dying though so I can train myself to do it rather than walk back =P

Monsyphon

2014-02-11 07:17:02 pm

Really ManoxMano

Just be sure to make a mewtwo and/or a skeleton follow you. Makes the whole procedure a lot easier

EnkerBlues

Edit history:

EnkerBlues: 2014-02-12 10:44:31 pm

2014-02-12 03:13:36 pm

Welp, I just came across a strat that can change the face of Ft. Eagle. There is a way to do the Lester fight without taking a single hit from him, and finish the battle in 30 seconds, AND be able to have 5EP left over for the Computer Fight! I'll post a video soon, but basically what you do is after his dialogue is over and you gain control, you: 1. Get in battle mode. 2. Walk to the left and keep walking until he misses you with his sword. 3. Turn around and land a regular attack on him, then land 2 Dual Flashes. 3. Turn around again and dodge a sword strike, then turn around to hit him. 4. After this, unbattle mode and run to the other side of him, dodging another sword strike. 5. Battle Mode and move to the right, dodging blows. Turn around and hit. Repeat.

Using this strat, the battle is over before you know it, no damage is taken, EP will be at 3.5. If I can test using the ? Decal on Snake, Ft. Eagle could be done with 7-8 potions, reducing time for grinding. If we are able to get 560 gold before even getting to Ft. Eagle Base, there may not even be a need to soldier grind besides getting 5EP, and may not be a need to warp back to the ship. I'm going to test a couple of different scenarios to see how much money/stuff to sell can be obtained . This could save (I think) a drastic amount of time in Ft. Eagle. This will also change using the Cheeseburger to the Computer or maybe a completely different fight all together.

I'm so EXCITED, AHAHAHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

EDIT: Snake cannot be ? Decal'd. Which is an insane bummer. Potions go up to probably 10 now. 1 may more than likely be used just through running through Fort Eagle, unless you feel like using food rather than potions.

Also, there is a potion right at the beginning of Ft. Eagle. Saves from having to grind one. Just Dual Flashx2 the guard in front of it.

Welp, I just came across a strat that can change the face of Ft. Eagle. There is a way to do the Lester fight without taking a single hit from him, and finish the battle in 30 seconds, AND be able to have 5EP left over for the Computer Fight! I'll post a video soon, but basically what you do is after his dialogue is over and you gain control, you: 1. Get in battle mode. 2. Walk to the left and keep walking until he misses you with his sword. 3. Turn around and land a regular attack on him, then land 2 Dual Flashes. 3. Turn around again and dodge a sword strike, then turn around to hit him. 4. After this, unbattle mode and run to the other side of him, dodging another sword strike. 5. Battle Mode and move to the right, dodging blows. Turn around and hit. Repeat.

Using this strat, the battle is over before you know it, no damage is taken, EP will be at 3.5. If I can test using the ? Decal on Snake, Ft. Eagle could be done with 7-8 potions, reducing time for grinding. If we are able to get 560 gold before even getting to Ft. Eagle Base, there may not even be a need to soldier grind besides getting 5EP, and may not be a need to warp back to the ship. I'm going to test a couple of different scenarios to see how much money/stuff to sell can be obtained . This could save (I think) a drastic amount of time in Ft. Eagle. This will also change using the Cheeseburger to the Computer or maybe a completely different fight all together.

I'm so EXCITED, AHAHAHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

EDIT: Snake cannot be ? Decal'd. Which is an insane bummer. Potions go up to probably 10 now. 1 may more than likely be used just through running through Fort Eagle, unless you feel like using food rather than potions.

Also, there is a potion right at the beginning of Ft. Eagle. Saves from having to grind one. Just Dual Flashx2 the guard in front of it.

Monsyphon

Edit history:

Monsyphon: 2014-02-13 08:11:31 am

Monsyphon: 2014-02-13 03:53:29 am

Monsyphon: 2014-02-13 03:48:02 am

Monsyphon: 2014-02-13 03:20:39 am

Monsyphon: 2014-02-13 03:18:15 am

2014-02-13 03:17:28 am

Really ManoxMano

This is actually insane. I have no words.
I think a warp back to base will always be necc. because we need mochi and ? for the cabin and flyboy
Gonna be holding back my Ft. Eagle vid till we can get this strat working. imo tho 7-8 potions is kinda risky. Computer can be very fickle and I once had to blow 7-8 potions on that fight.

EDIT: DUDE FOUND A SEXIER METHOD. YOU CAN TRAP LESTER IN THE BOT RIGHT CORNER I HAVE A VID JUST WAIT

Note to wait a lil' bit or else he will go through

EDIT2: You can do it even earlier http://imgur.com/D4MY2eD

EnkerBlues

Edit history:

EnkerBlues: 2014-02-13 09:38:35 am

EnkerBlues: 2014-02-13 09:23:07 am

EnkerBlues: 2014-02-13 09:12:57 am

2014-02-13 09:07:42 am

Dude, Monsy. You're a GENIUS. This will dramatically speed things up. It looks even less risky than walking away from him. Poor Lester, we've explosed him so hard, the first 2 fights he doesn't even swing his sword. I'm glad we got this going before any real runs started! If we could somehow find a trap for Snake that would help a ton. So, so far it seems like 10-11 potions SHOULD be enough. Snake will probably take about 2-3.
EDIT: Some potions may not be necessary to grind if we use the fruit/soda/orange that were available at the beginning.

Ya, I tried testing and there just has to be a warp back. It's inevitable. Regarding Log Cabin and Wolf Leader, I think Mochi is necessary to use on Log Cabin, and ? on Wolf Leader. If you use ? at Log Cabin, it doesn't transform all of the soldiers, and targeting also becomes a mess.

EDIT: A possibly worthwhile strat: After grinding super bug and getting to the "Cafe" lobby, there is a fat tourist who dropped 250coins for me. If we can get that 250, plus the treasure box in Caldoaxa ruins, plus the treasure box at Ft. Eagle, the grind for potions won't have to be as long. I highly recommend picking up the Mage's Rod in Caldoaxa as well, sells for 85 which negates 1 Potion grind.
Going to try and find a way to trap Bull. His reach is about the same as Lester's, and there are some corners in the little area that you fight him. I'll take a look later.

EDIT2: Since the ? decal will be refreshed, my recommendation for using it is when you enter the area that has the entrance to the bath/the entrance to the place you get the saber. When you first go up there, go to the bath and refresh HP, then, come back out and until the Red Soldier is in view. Use the ? Decal and that gives a clear path to use the keycard on the door. This prevents a lot of the risk of going in that area. Once you leave after getting the Saber, make sure you run bottom-left, that way the Red Soldier never targets you(this is also how I grind EP after Snake. 2 of the easy soldiers will follow, kill them, repeat.)

Dude, Monsy. You're a GENIUS. This will dramatically speed things up. It looks even less risky than walking away from him. Poor Lester, we've explosed him so hard, the first 2 fights he doesn't even swing his sword. I'm glad we got this going before any real runs started! If we could somehow find a trap for Snake that would help a ton. So, so far it seems like 10-11 potions SHOULD be enough. Snake will probably take about 2-3.
EDIT: Some potions may not be necessary to grind if we use the fruit/soda/orange that were available at the beginning.

Ya, I tried testing and there just has to be a warp back. It's inevitable. Regarding Log Cabin and Wolf Leader, I think Mochi is necessary to use on Log Cabin, and ? on Wolf Leader. If you use ? at Log Cabin, it doesn't transform all of the soldiers, and targeting also becomes a mess.

EDIT: A possibly worthwhile strat: After grinding super bug and getting to the "Cafe" lobby, there is a fat tourist who dropped 250coins for me. If we can get that 250, plus the treasure box in Caldoaxa ruins, plus the treasure box at Ft. Eagle, the grind for potions won't have to be as long. I highly recommend picking up the Mage's Rod in Caldoaxa as well, sells for 85 which negates 1 Potion grind.
Going to try and find a way to trap Bull. His reach is about the same as Lester's, and there are some corners in the little area that you fight him. I'll take a look later.

EDIT2: Since the ? decal will be refreshed, my recommendation for using it is when you enter the area that has the entrance to the bath/the entrance to the place you get the saber. When you first go up there, go to the bath and refresh HP, then, come back out and until the Red Soldier is in view. Use the ? Decal and that gives a clear path to use the keycard on the door. This prevents a lot of the risk of going in that area. Once you leave after getting the Saber, make sure you run bottom-left, that way the Red Soldier never targets you(this is also how I grind EP after Snake. 2 of the easy soldiers will follow, kill them, repeat.)

Monsyphon

Edit history:

Monsyphon: 2014-02-13 11:24:23 am

2014-02-13 11:24:08 am

Really ManoxMano

- You dont do ? at the Cabin, and then mochi on the Wolf Leader? I've found that letting the leader use the Cutter tech leads to instant death, esp at low lvs. Thats why I just Mochi because then they all fall without me worrying. Cabin leader is a pain but he's more manageable.

- That's a good find, we can now slam the fat toursit instead of one bat for EP as well. I also get the Mage's Rod, and don't forget the Mallet at Ft. Eagle

- Another place you can use it is during the computer - you can instantly turn the soldiers into animals and you pick them off. I use that strat too but I should practice the riskier strat lol. How I EP grind after Snake is that I get 1-2 weak soldiers to chase me, go into the keycard room, wait for them to appear and then go out again. Then I got 4 weak soldiers all following me. I call the tech "doubling"

- How I EP grind is get 1-2 weak soldiers and go into the key

EnkerBlues

Edit history:

EnkerBlues: 2014-02-13 11:35:24 pm

2014-02-13 11:31:54 pm

So, just did an Intro-Third Cell run...and I gotta say the switch to Fat Tourist can make a HUGE difference. He dropped 2 of the ENORMOUS coins that were both 350+. I didn't need to soldier grind 1 bit for money. I saved about 5 minutes from my previous run overall, but I saved 3-4 minutes just from not having to Grind. If we use Fat Tourist solely for grinding EP after Super Bug...he may reward us bigtime.

Here's a vid of the run. I ended up getting 1:00:11.6, but I also took a couple seconds to chat and a couple of splits I forgot to split or split late. Gonna repeat this run. Also, another change, I get the hidden treasure box on the Deserted Isle to get the 50 something gold. It helps and doesn't take much time to get, and I've got 90 gold before from it. I didn't need to grab the Mage's Rod for this run and didn't need to sell the mallet so I was able to use it in Pyramid. I forgot to grind EP after Snake so I didn't get to use 2 Dual Flash on Lester on 5 Dual Flash on the Computer which could have saved a lot of time. This early game run could easily be under an hour if all the right conditions are met. It's unfortunate that we have to warp back to the ship, because I would have been able to buy all the potions I needed outright when I got to the merchant. This would save another 5 minutes.
http://www.twitch.tv/enkerblues/c/3719442

So, just did an Intro-Third Cell run...and I gotta say the switch to Fat Tourist can make a HUGE difference. He dropped 2 of the ENORMOUS coins that were both 350+. I didn't need to soldier grind 1 bit for money. I saved about 5 minutes from my previous run overall, but I saved 3-4 minutes just from not having to Grind. If we use Fat Tourist solely for grinding EP after Super Bug...he may reward us bigtime.

Here's a vid of the run. I ended up getting 1:00:11.6, but I also took a couple seconds to chat and a couple of splits I forgot to split or split late. Gonna repeat this run. Also, another change, I get the hidden treasure box on the Deserted Isle to get the 50 something gold. It helps and doesn't take much time to get, and I've got 90 gold before from it. I didn't need to grab the Mage's Rod for this run and didn't need to sell the mallet so I was able to use it in Pyramid. I forgot to grind EP after Snake so I didn't get to use 2 Dual Flash on Lester on 5 Dual Flash on the Computer which could have saved a lot of time. This early game run could easily be under an hour if all the right conditions are met. It's unfortunate that we have to warp back to the ship, because I would have been able to buy all the potions I needed outright when I got to the merchant. This would save another 5 minutes.
[URL]http://www.twitch.tv/enkerblues/c/3719442[/URL]

Monsyphon

2014-02-14 06:46:01 am

Really ManoxMano

I get that treasure solely so I don't have to sell any food for the paper knife. But damn, getting through the thrid cell in around an hour? that's pretty crazy

Unfortunately I hate watching Twitch VODS cuz they are so slow so I only watched a few parts.
-Noticed your Super Bug - when it gives me a bad pattern such as the one you had there, I make him follow me up the stairs into the next room, wait for the SB to appear --> go back and wait for him to to the charging attack. Then if you run onto the stairs, he'll end up in the sweetspot. If it's unclear I'll make a vid

-Watched the grinding on the fat guy (...) and I have mixed feelings. The % of getting coin is obviously low, and it's slower then just EP grinding on bats, BUT it combines the time used from grinding on soldiers at Ft. Eagle and the time it uses killing bats (assuming we get lucky and get 2+ coins). I'm all up for less grinding, I just wish we had more concrete numbers such as actual % rate. Nevertheless, this sounds like a good thing to implement in the run. Maybe grind --> 4.5 EP, and if there's no good coin reset?
-I am going to find out how much money we can snag on all the chests/items

I get that treasure solely so I don't have to sell any food for the paper knife. But damn, getting through the thrid cell in around an hour? that's pretty crazy

Unfortunately I hate watching Twitch VODS cuz they are so slow so I only watched a few parts.
-Noticed your Super Bug - when it gives me a bad pattern such as the one you had there, I make him follow me up the stairs into the next room, wait for the SB to appear --> go back and wait for him to to the charging attack. Then if you run onto the stairs, he'll end up in the sweetspot. If it's unclear I'll make a vid

-Watched the grinding on the fat guy (...) and I have mixed feelings. The % of getting coin is obviously low, and it's slower then just EP grinding on bats, BUT it combines the time used from grinding on soldiers at Ft. Eagle and the time it uses killing bats (assuming we get lucky and get 2+ coins). I'm all up for less grinding, I just wish we had more concrete numbers such as actual % rate. Nevertheless, this sounds like a good thing to implement in the run. Maybe grind --> 4.5 EP, and if there's no good coin reset? 
-I am going to find out how much money we can snag on all the chests/items