Username:
B
I
U
S
"
url
img
#
code
sup
sub
font
size
color
smiley
embarassed
thumbsup
happy
Huh?
Angry
Roll Eyes
Undecided
Lips Sealed
Kiss
Cry
Grin
Wink
Tongue
Shocked
Cheesy
Smiley
Sad
1 page
--
--
List results:
Search options:
Use \ before commas in usernames
Edit history:
Omnigamer: 2012-12-03 01:57:24 pm
Omnigamer: 2012-12-03 09:30:53 am
All the things
I've been working on this and it doesn't seem like it will take too long to get a good run. Even so, it's good to document the tricks and things.

Rolling: This is the crux of pretty much every trick in the run. You can roll by holding down on a slope. Simple enough. When you start into a roll, you will gradually accelerate to a speed that is faster than normal running. You are also invincible, have an active hitbox around you, and gain the special property of scaling vertical walls while it's active. Several levels can be completed just by rolling at the beginning and letting the rest play out.

Instant Rolling: I found this trick accidentally and when I investigated it, I though it would be TAS-only. Turns out there are easier ways to set it up, so it has become a necessary addition to the run. I'm still not entirely sure of the requirements, but I can get it about 60% in real-time. To perform in real-time, you must be holding run while on a slope. Then, press back very briefly and roll to forward, then to down. With precision and some luck, Congo should immediately start into a roll at full speed, negating the time required to start it up and accelerate. Looks pretty slick, too.

Roll Storage: When you start sliding (don't even have to go into a full roll), a flag is set that basically declares that "wallclimbing" is enabled while you're rolling. Turns out that this flag is not unset unless you stand still or get hit. Even better, the game considers you to be "rolling" when you start to descend from a high jump. What this means is that jumping and colliding with a wall or ground will cause you to instantly start rolling provided that your inputs are correct (left or right for walls, and straight down for ground). So several of the more difficult tricks involve trying to preserve this property for as long as possible and set up rolls in areas that would otherwise not be possible. This involves a lot of precise movement since stopping for even one frame will cause you to lose the flag, and several of the locations to set up a roll are pretty unforgiving.

Floating: When you go into super mode, you can hover after a super jump by rapidly pressing jump. It's an intended mechanic in the game, but there's nowhere that teaches you this so it's worth mentioning. You can effectively "cape" through several of the levels this way.

I might go into detail on individual stage tricks later on, but they aren't too hard to figure out once the above tricks are understood. Boss strategies are also pretty simple for the most part, although there is some uncertainty to it. Hitboxes are ridiculous in some parts of the game, and a better understanding of them can go a long way to developing good strategies. In particular, the last boss can take a ton of time with the wrong patterns, and not knowing where you can be hit prohibits a lot of aggressive attacking. I will look into what seeds the bosses' patterns, but I know that part of it is based on your position relative to them when they start attacking.

My current PB is 22:11, and I expect a submittable run to be in the neighborhood of 21:30-21:45. The TAS (currently a WIP) will probably finish in just under 20 minutes.
Thread title:  
Just by reading the explanation above I get a bit curious. I'd like to see some of it in action, even if it's not "the run".

You sure find interesting games Smiley
All the things
I'll record some showcase videos to go along with the explanations tonight. It took me a bit to understand it, but it made a lot more sense after watching the WIP TAS and dissecting some of the inputs. Roll storage is the key part of it, and you can track that in emulator by monitoring RAM address 7E0033. The flag is set if the highest order bit is set (most cases you'll see it as 0x80). There is one other thing that's bugging me though, and it involves something that happens when you hover. I'll check it out a bit more and post of it's something notable.
All the things
Tricks Video:



Summary of clips:

1. Normal roll. Basic mechanic of the game. Just hold down on a slope.
2. Perfect instant roll example. Not practical to perform in real-time.
3. Improvised instant roll. This method of performing is suitable for real-time, but is slower than a perfect instant roll.
4. Regular high-jumping. Note that it briefly goes into a roll animation.
5. Storing a roll, and then using it to scale the wall. In the same clip, I continue on to use the stored roll on a slope so that it instantly starts into a ground roll.
6. Hovering. Another intended game mechanic. Just rapidly tap jump after a high jump in Super mode.
7. Another example of roll storage that uses a low ceiling to force an instant roll.
8. An example of all of the roll tricks used in a single stage. The final roll is a bit tricky and is a clever use of the mechanics.
Edit history:
Omnigamer: 2012-12-15 12:08:15 am
All the things
My current PB is 21:21 and I hit most of the tricks. Boss luck was meh and I was a bit cautious in some spots. I should be able to bring it down to about 21:00 with some better luck.

Recording here.

EDIT: Got a 21:11 off-stream earlier. Much cleaner run with some new stage and boss strats, however I'd still like it to come down another 5-6 seconds before it's submittal material.
Omni, just keep on rolling until you hit that special urn!
Remember your mantra.
That run is very enjoyable.

I'm curious to see what can happen to this time with more experimentation with Instant Rolling, though it seems the strats demonstrated so far and pretty damn optimized.
All the things
I did some  comparisons between my best splits and current route vs the TAS. I am within 10 seconds of the TAS on every world but Spooky and Final, which are both about 25 seconds off. Full notes below, but the tl;dr is that I need to investigate Spooky 4 more and maybe do more ballsy strats on the final boss. I'll need something in order to break into sub-21, but the route is already pretty tight as-is.

Spooky 1: Keeps roll from start... maybe try to find something?
Spooky 2: No change
Spooky 3: Gets faster turnaround roll, otherwise no change
Spooky 4: Keeps roll from first spike walk until flames, and then restarts. No easy way. Practice getting more efficient drac kills?

Final 1: Roll for as long as possible? Experiment with different ways to do it.
Final 2: Try to get through second crusher early?
Final 3: No change.
Final 4: Try to find reliable manipulation for boss 3. Also just practice Boss 1&2. Maybe start on right for boss manip?

Ninja 1: Some difference from upper route.
Ninja 2: Much faster transitions and final sign.
Ninja 3: Gets an extra roll, not possible... or is it? Experiment with storing roll at start, and restarting it on spikes?
Ninja 4: Be more aggressive with Boss.

Water 1: Get instant fall.
Water 2: Get instant fall.
Water 3: lol.
Water 4: Be more aggressive with Boss.

Tech 1: No change.
Tech 2: lol.
Tech 3: Just keep rolling if the health is available.
Tech 4: Be more aggressive with Boss.
Remember your mantra.
Current PB is  23:36, Omni is a god amongst men.


I just picked up a JP cart for gits and shiggles. From what I can tell, there arn't any substantial differences, at least in terms of game play. Arbitrary differences include a JP title screen and the credits fade in instead of coming in all at once. That's pretty much it.

However, I did notice the JP version seemed to be suffering from lag at points where there were many sprites on screen.
I also seemed to get very lucky during the final boss, but that is more than likely a coincidence. I was keeping an eye out for different enemies or item locations, but noticed nothing.


Keep going Omni!
All the things
Did some testing and cleaning up on Spooky 4, and came up with a new strat. Sadly, it ends up only saving 20 frames over the old route, but it looks a hell of a lot cooler. Also, getting the final hallway roll saves about 2.5 seconds over not. So this will be a critical level for the run in terms of both tricks and HP. Otherwise I need to test new/better routes for Final 1 & 2, and smooth over the final Boss some more.

-Using an upper route in Ninja 1 only saves 19 frames and is a lot harder, but has the added benefit of being possible even with only 1 gem. Probably should practice it a bit more just in case.
-Potential rolling path on Ninja 3 is slower by about 50 frames and harder and not worth it. Yeah.
-Final 1: Just rush through to the first egg, then hover. High jump and float again at end if possible, otherwise go across spikes.
-2nd crusher in Final 2 cannot be skipped in real time, even with fuzzy surfing.
-The "standing on a cliff" animation has two full frames of invincibility. Not something that can really be abused, but good to know.
-The last boss can be reliably manipulated to stop in different places based on how many times you hit him prior to stopping, as well as some dependence on your position. My current strat relies on having at least 2 rubies going into him, so I can play it more or less risky depending on my health situation.
Old thread, but I had some questions about Roll Storage. First, is there a recomended stage to begin practicing the different types of storage? I've yet to successfully perform one of the slide to rolls in 1-1, though my using an xbox controller with a shitty d-pad might not be helping. Sorry, I am not grasping well between your written description and the video.

I've got instant-rolls down pretty well, despite the d-pad, but I have a deeper question. As I haven't watched the TAS (I probably should), I don't know if broke something or what, but after my first couple instant rolls on the first slope to the right, I managed to instant roll left, going back up the slope towards the beginning. Any insight? I don't even recall if there would be any place this could be utilized, but it definitely can't hurt to know. I'll keep trying to make it happen again in the meantime.
Edit history:
lcpl david: 2013-04-10 10:28:26 am
Sorry, it's my first day.
Created an account so I can call myself a part of the community!

Update: I think I mistook your definition of roll storage. I was taking the slide-roll and roll from high jump as 2 seperate storages. I've done it now. Edit: You should add in the description of roll storage that in order to do a ground roll (holding straight down when landing) that you have to hit something first. Unless I'm mistaken again.

I just wanted to say that it's cool to see someone run this game. I got it at a gametrade store when I was pretty young and loved it. It's length is it's only drawback(and the occasional wonky hitbox). It's such a solid platformer. I loved everything about this game minus the last boss. He beat my ass on the regular.
All the things
If by "hit something" you mean connect with some ground, then yes. It's not necessarily down, however, just towards the surface you're trying to roll on. For example, my new strat in Spooky 4 uses a jump->roll on a left wall, then swaps the roll onto a platform. For this you need to hold  towards the wall for as long as you want to roll on it, and then you can change direction to the platform while holding down to continue it. Otherwise, yes, there is only one type of roll storage and it just involves keeping a certain flag set in memory.

The "reverse roll" you witnessed is actually another type of instant roll where you end up holding the other direction the frame before the roll starts, and it will move you back while gradually building your acceleration towards the other direction. It looks funny, but isn't really useful for a speedrun.
Remember your mantra.
Me and the last boss are not best friends u_u
What is a man?
I've actually taking a huge liking to this game, and you'll probably see me run this game soon Smiley