Castlevania:Symphony of the Night 100%

2007-05-02 07:39:47 pm

Thanks for that map; I've been looking for a decent one, and that is nicer than some I've found.

As far as the difficult map locations go, I've already got my plans; in particular, the stupid part where you're going up the stairs to get to the Chapel, I'll avoid those nooks the first time, and then when I get superjump, I'll go hit it up pretty quickly. That's the way I usually play that section anyway, I'll just have to perfect it so that I can keep going nonstop. That waterfall area is ridiculous, you're right. I'll probably just have to fall down behind it and jump and check the map to make sure I get it.

getter77

2007-05-02 07:59:36 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Simple solution since nobody pays it any attention except me here apparently (WHY?!)

www.speedruns.net

Supports both TAS AND non-tool assisted games played on an emulator.

Zurreco

2007-05-02 08:04:26 pm

Just call me the cynicism machine

Quote:

nobody pays it any attention except me here apparently (WHY?!)

www.speedruns.net

A lot of people strongly dislike the founders of the site/the fact that they will accept any run, even if it's mind numbingly boring. They also accept runs that 'appear' great, even if they're obviously vastly improvable. That's why so many people dodge the site.

getter77

2007-05-02 09:35:25 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Weird...I never heard anything about the site admins or anything over there. Granted, I'm a "nobody" though. Drama hidden in the shadows I guess. They do have some very nice stuff that is well made though. Like the D&D runs.

Superplay, TASvideos, SDA, and there combined pretty much cover all the bases.

Satoryu

2007-05-02 11:32:51 pm

Visually Appealing

Quote:

But i know for a fact; that 200.6% completion; is based on map/relics...

really? i'm sure that the percentage only pertains to the map. relics dont add to it.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/CastlevaniaAoS.html

Dragondarch did an all boss run with Julius. SDA calls it 100%. i'm not sure why, but i'd assume its because filling the map would be boring to watch. i believe SDA's definition of 100% for SotN will be all bosses and relics, based on this Julius run. no way in hell item drops would count. getting all the Max Ups is a different story however.

Ishmayl

2007-05-02 11:43:49 pm

Yeah, I didn't think item drops would count either. That is a good point about the map too; is AoS's map similar to SotN, in that there are secret areas that don't show up until you find them?

Satoryu

2007-05-02 11:58:17 pm

Visually Appealing

i'm not sure what you're getting at. all Castleroids use the same map system as SotN. they have been improved in that you don't have to jump to a certain small point in the ceiling or something just to get a block of map.

Radix

2007-05-03 12:28:27 am

I'm addicted to games

All relics and best ending. That's it.

Satoryu

Edit history:

Satoryu: 2007-05-03 03:58:56 am

2007-05-03 03:57:14 am

Visually Appealing

that's an interesting choice, Radix. under those restrictions, over half of the inverted castle can be skipped. the only other boss you'd have to fight besides the five already is Galamoth. Legion and the entire Catacombs can also be skipped.

i've made a map that would get route planning started. mind the sloppiness, i did it in a rush.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/Satoryu/sotnallrelicroute.gif

i grayed out all areas that are absolutely unnecessary. some choice things i left open, like save points and the locations of certain items. (Jewel Knuckles, Shield Rod, Alucard Sword, among others.) the Alucard Shield is very far out of the way, so no getting it.

planning the route for the inverted castle is easy; only differences are the detours after Death and possible Crissaegrim. the normal castle, on the other hand, will need some work.

let me know if i messed up somewhere on the map.

Ishmayl

Edit history:

Ishmayl: 2007-05-03 04:16:34 am

2007-05-03 04:13:35 am

That's a good-looking map, from what I can tell. That leaves out a hell of a lot of the castle(s) though. I wouldn't need Crissaegrimm, I can kill Drac quickly enough without it. However, that map plan (or Radix statement in general) doesn't seem like a very interesting, or *full* run. I'll wait until mikwuyma responds to my PM and see what he says about the full run.

mikwuyma

2007-05-03 04:57:36 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

What Radix said is 100%, is 100%.

RaneofSOTN

Edit history:

RaneofSOTN: 2007-05-03 05:12:35 am

2007-05-03 05:01:45 am

I want off the ride....

Best ending for SoTN is 194% completion upon beating Dracula....

Therefore... 1925 rooms would have to be gotten as a minimum; (194/200.6 x 1990 rooms total)

All 28 relics would have to be gotten...
All LIFE UPS / HEART UPS gotten...

Honestly; this is looking to be interesting....
I might just start and try to beat a game tonight to see what a ballpark would be for this; (without any optimizing or anything) just basic "what i would expect" to be fact things..\

EDIT: I'm sorry i used the saturn version's room count (1990) its PSX version is (1890)

The real room count is 1828 rooms; so you can miss only 62 Squares on the map;

EDIT #2: List of Relics (28)
Soul of Bat
Fire Of Bat
Echo of Bat
Force of Echo
Soul of Wolf
Power of Wolf
SKill of Wolf
Form of Mist
Power of Mist
Gas cloud
Cube of Zoe
Spirit Orb
Gravity Boots
Leap Stone
Holy Symbol
Faerie Scroll
Jewel of Open
Merman Statue
Bat Card
Ghost Card
Faerie Card
Demon Card
Sword Card
Heart of Vlad
Tooth of Vlad
Rib of Vlad
Ring of Vlad
Eye of Vlad

Best ending for SoTN is 194% completion upon beating Dracula....

Therefore... 1925 rooms would have to be gotten as a minimum;  (194/200.6 x 1990 rooms total)

All 28 relics would have to be gotten...
All LIFE UPS / HEART UPS gotten...

Honestly; this is looking to be interesting....
I might just start and try to beat a game tonight to see what a ballpark would be for this; (without any optimizing or anything) just basic "what i would expect" to be fact things..\

EDIT: I'm sorry i used the saturn version's room count (1990) its PSX version is (1890)

The real room count is 1828 rooms; so you can miss only 62 Squares on the map;

EDIT #2: List of Relics (28)
Soul of Bat
Fire Of Bat
Echo of Bat
Force of Echo
Soul of Wolf
Power of Wolf
SKill of Wolf
Form of Mist
Power of Mist
Gas cloud
Cube of Zoe
Spirit Orb
Gravity Boots
Leap Stone
Holy Symbol
Faerie Scroll
Jewel of Open
Merman Statue
Bat Card
Ghost Card
Faerie Card
Demon Card
Sword Card
Heart of Vlad
Tooth of Vlad
Rib of Vlad
Ring of Vlad
Eye of Vlad

RaneofSOTN

Edit history:

RaneofSOTN: 2007-05-03 07:43:54 am

2007-05-03 07:41:48 am

I want off the ride....

okay so taking this a bit far into testing; this is what I came up with (i didn't optimize at all; and I only did very few segments cause of this; mostly they were at points I dislike and dont trust that much to luck cause of problems I've had with them in the past)

Section 1 - Start to Pre-Mino/Werewolf
21:01 ~ 1-3 minutes of errors ~27%
grabbed jewel knuckles; looking to be bad choice

SEction 2 - Pre-Mino/Werewolf to pre/post succubus
54:17 ~ 10 more minutes of errors (failures to jump, the fact i tabbed out my emulator for a hallway and got gangraped to low hps before i realized it)
~57%

Section 3 - Pre/Post Succubus to Pre-Legion
1:12:46 ~ another 3-5 minutes of errors added on (bad things happen... god)
~75%

Section 4 - Pre-Legion to just hitting IC
1:41:26 ~ A long night of screw ups; 1 minute holding still and capturing RC map picture; and stuff; along with failure to pull off some wing smashes and bad getting hit;... (note to self Ring of ares rocks.... end note)

At the end of RC and the brief bit i did for IC 960 rooms
960/1890 = .50793650 ... which translates into 101.9%
.50793650 x 2 = 101.5873; which means that some of the relics count for slight percents and such, possibly also accounting for "breakable" walls (ones that just drop items) as opposed to secret rooms..

Here is what I got; I know i have a few holes; Secret room I didn't hit -> the one in the coliseum; it doesn't have a relic in there; and to backtrack there is not worth the time (as the goal is only about 194%, its best to take the room loss)

if your wondering my path; i'll tell ya; but I had a crappy run through and forgot like 2 things...

I got a time of 1:41:26; thats roughly a % a minute; Given my backtracking and ill timing of wasting the 20 seconds on getting the jewel knuckles early; I say this RC part of the run is easily done sub 1:20, probably even 1:10.

*EDIT* I even just realized; I completely forgot the damn Bat Card in the first boss room (OMFG!!!) Thats a horrible backtrack for me; and I've already thought about how to fix this problem... *le sigh* Things you notice ipso facto.

okay so taking this a bit far into testing; this is what I came up with (i didn't optimize at all; and I only did very few segments cause of this; mostly they were at points I dislike and dont trust that much to luck cause of problems I've had with them in the past)

Section 1 - Start to Pre-Mino/Werewolf
21:01 ~ 1-3 minutes of errors ~27%
grabbed jewel knuckles; looking to be bad choice

SEction 2 - Pre-Mino/Werewolf to pre/post succubus
54:17 ~ 10 more minutes of errors (failures to jump, the fact i tabbed out my emulator for a hallway and got gangraped to low hps before i realized it)
      ~57%

Section 3 - Pre/Post Succubus to Pre-Legion
1:12:46 ~ another 3-5 minutes of errors added on (bad things happen... god)
        ~75%

Section 4 - Pre-Legion to just hitting IC
1:41:26 ~ A long night of screw ups; 1 minute holding still and capturing RC map picture; and stuff; along with failure to pull off some wing smashes and bad getting hit;... (note to self Ring of ares rocks.... end note)

At the end of RC and the brief bit i did for IC 960 rooms 
960/1890 = .50793650 ... which translates into 101.9%
 .50793650 x 2 = 101.5873; which means that some of the relics count for slight percents and such, possibly also accounting for "breakable" walls (ones that just drop items) as opposed to secret rooms..

Here is what I got; I know i have a few holes; Secret room I didn't hit -> the one in the coliseum; it doesn't have a relic in there; and to backtrack there is not worth the time (as the goal is only about 194%, its best to take the room loss)

if your wondering my path; i'll tell ya; but I had a crappy run through and forgot like 2 things...

I got a time of 1:41:26; thats roughly a % a minute; Given my backtracking and ill timing of wasting the 20 seconds on getting the jewel knuckles early; I say this RC part of the run is easily done sub 1:20, probably even 1:10.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/raneofdragons/RCmap.jpg[/IMG]

*EDIT* I even just realized; I completely forgot the damn Bat Card in the first boss room (OMFG!!!) Thats a horrible backtrack for me; and I've already thought about how to fix this problem... *le sigh* Things you notice ipso facto.

Serris

2007-05-03 08:47:50 am

200% map would have been for the Walk Armor, so if you don't have to get all items, it's pointless anyway.

Ishmayl

Edit history:

Ishmayl: 2007-05-03 03:29:15 pm

2007-05-03 02:12:51 pm

I would like to hear your path, Rane; I have something semi-planned out and would like to know how they compare. I don't think it's necessary to take a full minute as you said getting a screen capture to the map. The second before you walk into Richter/Shaft's room up top of the castle, I could just hit hte map button, let it sit for a second, then lower it. Anyone that wants to compare can pause and take their own screen shot, right? By the time I'm done, I'll plan on not having to use the map to make sure I have key points.

As for the jeweled knuckles, I would imagine it was even more than 20 seconds; the whole segment of going down into that "basement" area, bipassing the knight, breaking the wall, waiting for that damned elevator, and then going back up is probably more like a full minute, I would imagine.

Did you run this as a speed run, back-sliding the whole time?

Also, for a few tips and strategies, I'm not sure how to do that wolf-bounce that I've seen in a couple runs (I've never really had much of a reason to go that far out of sequence before). Can someone explain that tip to me so I can hit Orthox's lair earlier on (as well as the second part of the library).

I've decided to buy the damn game, so I'm awaiting prices I like at the moment. It looks like the least I'm going to be able to get away with (as long as no one snipes me in ebay) is about $50-60, so it may still be a couple weeks before I actually buy it. I'll therefore be doing a good bit of map-planning, sequencing, etc on my emulator before I get really into it, making multiple runs.

I explained on tasvideos, but not here, that I have an irritated sciatic nerve, and can't sit for more than about a hour before I'm in pretty severe pain, so it's possible I may have to do this segmented. I really don't want to, but that may just be the case. Therefore, I think the entire game (both castles) can very easily be divided into two segments by the time everything is done. I'll work on that, and hopefully by the time I do the run, I'll have figured out whether or not I can complete it in one segment or not.

Edit - I'm using a US version of the game (unless there's some issue about that I should know about?), so I wasn't sure who "Legion" was, as mentioned by raneofSotN Smiley

So we're agreed then that for the "full run" as mikwuya and radix decree, will include just the Best Ending, and all relics. Now, it looks like the map that Satoryu made up above won't be the final map, because it obviously leaves out more than 62 rooms. Most of the hidden relics are hidden in secret areas, so that means, the areas I'll be skipping will most likely just be useless areas that hold nothing of import and that are not direct passages between necessary areas. My guess would be then, that the entire "outside part of the Inverted castle" (that which corresponds with the very beginning of the game) can be skipped, right? I don't think I'm missing a relic up in there, but I'm going from memory, not looking at a guide at the moment. Also, since I don't need the walk armor, that side of the lowest level can be skipped, but for the sake of having the correct amount of rooms (to get the good percentage), I'll probably have to include at least a little bit of that lowest level. I think I have a general idea mapped out, I'm going to do some drawings on some maps today, and hopefully get something specific planned before I start really practicing the run.

Edit 2 - Wait, did we decide that all power-ups are necessary as well? If so, this may turn into a full 200.6% run anyway.

I would like to hear your path, Rane; I have something semi-planned out and would like to know how they compare.  I don't think it's necessary to take a full minute as you said getting a screen capture to the map.  The second before you walk into Richter/Shaft's room up top of the castle, I could just hit hte map button, let it sit for a second, then lower it.  Anyone that wants to compare can pause and take their own screen shot, right?  By the time I'm done, I'll plan on not having to use the map to make sure I have key points.

As for the jeweled knuckles, I would imagine it was even more than 20 seconds; the whole segment of going down into that "basement" area, bipassing the knight, breaking the wall, waiting for that damned elevator, and then going back up is probably more like a full minute, I would imagine.

Did you run this as a speed run, back-sliding the whole time?

Also, for a few tips and strategies, I'm not sure how to do that wolf-bounce that I've seen in a couple runs (I've never really had much of a reason to go that far out of sequence before).  Can someone explain that tip to me so I can hit Orthox's lair earlier on (as well as the second part of the library).

I've decided to buy the damn game, so I'm awaiting prices I like at the moment.  It looks like the least I'm going to be able to get away with (as long as no one snipes me in ebay) is about $50-60, so it may still be a couple weeks before I actually buy it.  I'll therefore be doing a good bit of map-planning, sequencing, etc on my emulator before I get  really into it, making multiple runs.

I explained on tasvideos, but not here, that I have an irritated sciatic nerve, and can't sit for more than about a hour before I'm in pretty severe pain, so it's possible I may have to do this segmented.  I really don't want to, but that may just be the case.  Therefore, I think the entire game (both castles) can very easily be divided into two segments by the time everything is done.  I'll work on that, and hopefully by the time I do the run, I'll have figured out whether or not I can complete it in one segment or not.

[b]Edit[/b] - I'm using a US version of the game (unless there's some issue about that I should know about?), so I wasn't sure who "Legion" was, as mentioned by raneofSotN :)

So we're agreed then that for the "full run" as mikwuya and radix decree, will include just the Best Ending, and all relics.   Now, it looks like the map that Satoryu made up above won't be the final map, because it obviously leaves out more than 62 rooms.  Most of the hidden relics are hidden in secret areas, so that means, the areas I'll be skipping will most likely just be useless areas that hold nothing of import and that are not direct passages between necessary areas.  My guess would be then, that the entire "outside part of the Inverted castle" (that which corresponds with the very beginning of the game) can be skipped, right?  I don't think I'm missing a relic up in there, but I'm going from memory, not looking at a guide at the moment.  Also, since I don't need the walk armor, that side of the lowest level can be skipped, but for the sake of having the correct amount of rooms (to get the good percentage), I'll probably have to include at least a little bit of that lowest level.  I think I have a general idea mapped out, I'm going to do some drawings on some maps today, and hopefully get something specific planned before I start really practicing the run.

[b]Edit 2[/b] - Wait, did we decide that all power-ups are necessary as well?  If so, this may turn into a full 200.6% run anyway.

Ishmayl

2007-05-03 03:09:21 pm

Quote:

What Radix said is 100%, is 100%.

Ah, okay, thanks. I just realized who Radix was (sorry, relatively new here Wink

)

Serris

2007-05-03 03:41:52 pm

http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/psx/castlevsn/

Ishmayl

2007-05-03 04:21:55 pm

Yeah, that's a good site for most information.

Satoryu

2007-05-03 04:31:32 pm

Visually Appealing

hmm. i forgot that the ending was based on percentage. grr. i wont make another map until we figure out a route. i'm imagining all bosses will have to be fought...

to do the wolf bounce, jump as a wolf, unmorph, and press down and jump. you'll kick off the candle.

by all means segment. actually it would be best to segment a lot more than one for each castle. save before those tricky spots.

and no, the Max Ups don't count.

Ishmayl

Edit history:

Ishmayl: 2007-05-03 05:25:16 pm

2007-05-03 05:22:51 pm

So, you think I should do a fully-segmented run? Something like, save before any crazy battle, or before any weird place where I have to do something technical and skillful (like multiple superjumps, bat-charges, wolf-bounces, etc)?

In terms of the way people view things, are segmented runs considered just as legit as single segments?

Edit: When rane said above that only 62 rooms can be skipped, he was talking about "map blocks," right?

RaneofSOTN

2007-05-03 09:38:58 pm

I want off the ride....

yeah; 1 map block = 1 room

Actually by the looks of it; a few more can be skipped...; i'm still doing it; if you saw my math...

The way I did it and got 1:41 (with my horrible errors) was..

Start to cube (not doing luck game so i didn't skip death)
cube to wolf
wolf to mist (skip the hidden room in coliseum; grab the blood cape for hearts when you "get hit"; dont forget shield rod and gathering some %'s; *NOTE* might be faster to grab olrox's warp room NOW)
Mist to Bat (library card for speed)
grabbed holy rod and bat
Bat to Faerie card and scroll;
Marble gallery to get spirit orb {and gravity boots on way}, and beyond to the entrance to get the wolf stuff + secret rooms (ceiling) and Jewel Sword room; back track to Alchemy lab for minor grabbing (wolf relic again) to boss room for bat card (i forgot that); then go into the Chapel, clearing it to leap stone, (dont forget to grab the ring from maria while here; requires 2 potions one for in; one for out);
Grab leap stone, power of mist, and ghost card (while getting map %'age), grab warp point;

then i have 3 choices here; go to olrox via warp; library card to go to basement; or go through clock tower in reverse (not that bad)

then you still have the remaining 2; then one. Realize that the longer you wait on the basement the more HP you'll have to clear the underwater parts w/o the holy symbol (takes too much to backtrack for it; its a pain) so do it when you feel the most comfortable (i did it with just 200 hp; not a big deal)
Its best to go and beat Scylla; (easy level and %'age on map) and pre-open the area for the holy symbol; then go across the WHOLE waterway to get the Merman's statue. Then backtrack a bit to pick up the waterfall room, activate the switch and go into the catacombs. clear that out (if you have holy rod + ring of ares, I dropped legion/whatever in 3 hits to his core, fight when like; wing smash wing smash hit hit hit; done!; not even specials);
up to you whether spike breaker is worth the rooms or not; then library card back, and return to the waterway (kill succubus if you didn't the first time; though you should've) just drop to get the holy symbol; then got hrough the water for the few percents and head back up; going to clock tower; equip rings, enter get holy glasses; then go kick olrox (take note to grab sword card pre or post fight, strength potion + holy rod + ring of ares makes short work of him)

then i went back through the CT tower; it almost seems like its better to do this IMHO; after grabbing leap stone and such CT -> Basement -> Olrox; (but this would negate the bonus of grabbing the warp room early) but i guess it would be based on preference;

THOUGHT: If the sword brother's money trick is applicable (i doubt it as you bypass the librarians no start; by making the sword brother's animation go while you talk to him; to be able to sell an infinite number of "rings"); then it'd almost be advisable to go to olrox ASAP and get the sword card; trash him (while your there) and then go to catacombs asap... Why? If you can get the duplicator for 500,000 (takes forever in a normal game) in the catacombs there is 1 power of sire, you equip that and duplicator; you have an instant win smash it button plox

just thoughts and ideas.

yeah; 1 map block = 1 room

Actually by the looks of it; a few more can be skipped...; i'm still doing it; if you saw my math...

The way I did it and got 1:41 (with my horrible errors) was..

Start to cube (not doing luck game so i didn't skip death)
cube to wolf
wolf to mist (skip the hidden room in coliseum; grab the blood cape for hearts when you "get hit"; dont forget shield rod and gathering some %'s; *NOTE* might be faster to grab olrox's warp room NOW)
Mist to Bat (library card for speed)
grabbed holy rod and bat
Bat to Faerie card and scroll;
Marble gallery to get spirit orb {and gravity boots on way}, and beyond to the entrance to get the wolf stuff + secret rooms (ceiling) and Jewel Sword room; back track to Alchemy lab for minor grabbing (wolf relic again) to boss room for bat card (i forgot that); then go into the Chapel, clearing it to leap stone, (dont forget to grab the ring from maria while here; requires 2 potions one for in; one for out);
Grab leap stone, power of mist, and ghost card (while getting map %'age), grab warp point;

then i have 3 choices here; go to olrox via warp; library card to go to basement; or go through clock tower in reverse (not that bad)

then you still have the remaining 2; then one. Realize that the longer you wait on the basement the more HP you'll have to clear the underwater parts w/o the holy symbol (takes too much to backtrack for it; its a pain) so do it when you feel the most comfortable (i did it with just 200 hp; not a big deal)
Its best to go and beat Scylla; (easy level and %'age on map) and pre-open the area for the holy symbol; then go across the WHOLE waterway to get the Merman's statue. Then backtrack a bit to pick up the waterfall room, activate the switch and go into the catacombs. clear that out (if you have holy rod + ring of ares, I dropped legion/whatever in 3 hits to his core, fight when like; wing smash wing smash hit hit hit; done!; not even specials);
up to you whether spike breaker is worth the rooms or not; then library card back, and return to the waterway (kill succubus if you didn't the first time; though you should've) just drop to get the holy symbol; then got hrough the water for the few percents and head back up; going to clock tower; equip rings, enter get holy glasses; then go kick olrox (take note to grab sword card pre or post fight, strength potion + holy rod + ring of ares makes short work of him)

then i went back through the CT tower; it almost seems like its better to do this IMHO; after grabbing leap stone and such CT -> Basement -> Olrox; (but this would negate the bonus of grabbing the warp room early) but i guess it would be based on preference;

THOUGHT: If the sword brother's money trick is applicable (i doubt it as you bypass the librarians no start; by making the sword brother's animation go while you talk to him; to be able to sell an infinite number of "rings"); then it'd almost be advisable to go to olrox ASAP and get the sword card; trash him (while your there) and then go to catacombs asap... Why? If you can get the duplicator for 500,000 (takes forever in a normal game) in the catacombs there is 1 power of sire, you equip that and duplicator; you have an instant win smash it button plox

just thoughts and ideas.

RaneofSOTN

2007-05-03 09:47:29 pm

I want off the ride....

Quote:

I would like to hear your path, Rane; I have something semi-planned out and would like to know how they compare. I don't think it's necessary to take a full minute as you said getting a screen capture to the map. The second before you walk into Richter/Shaft's room up top of the castle, I could just hit hte map button, let it sit for a second, then lower it. Anyone that wants to compare can pause and take their own screen shot, right? By the time I'm done, I'll plan on not having to use the map to make sure I have key points.

As for the jeweled knuckles, I would imagine it was even more than 20 seconds; the whole segment of going down into that "basement" area, bipassing the knight, breaking the wall, waiting for that damned elevator, and then going back up is probably more like a full minute, I would imagine.

Did you run this as a speed run, back-sliding the whole time?

I saved richter first; meaning you can't hit start until after you warp; so I had to warp there; warp back; hit select for map; print screen; paste it into paint made sure it captured right; then moved back into the other castle; thats a full minute

The 20 seconds is justifyed as this. The wait time; (though it is slightly more for walking in and out of that room); but ias soon as i entered the outerwall; I dropped down; to there; Hellfire canceled past the armor knight (hold DOWN after you cast a hellfire and move; you wont fire fireballs); entered; broke wall; waited; got it; walked out; same way; got the map down there; overall; its ~ 20 second loss; as i forgot that jewel knuckles wouldn't help in the bosses i was fighting mostly; and i could grab them quickly after getting bat/mist.

-> Who is legion: its not SoTN's name; but other things; its the big ball of corpses with the w/e in the middle...

-> did i backdash all the time -> No; i did it about 60% of the time; and i didn't even use the shield backdash trick; if you hit backdash and shield quick enough in succession (basicly turbo friendly) You can backdash up to 2-3x the normal speed; for non-turbo people this is a pain to keep up so most dont do it; but all TAS runs will abuse it...

[quote]I would like to hear your path, Rane; I have something semi-planned out and would like to know how they compare.  I don't think it's necessary to take a full minute as you said getting a screen capture to the map.  The second before you walk into Richter/Shaft's room up top of the castle, I could just hit hte map button, let it sit for a second, then lower it.  Anyone that wants to compare can pause and take their own screen shot, right?  By the time I'm done, I'll plan on not having to use the map to make sure I have key points.

As for the jeweled knuckles, I would imagine it was even more than 20 seconds; the whole segment of going down into that "basement" area, bipassing the knight, breaking the wall, waiting for that damned elevator, and then going back up is probably more like a full minute, I would imagine.

Did you run this as a speed run, back-sliding the whole time?[/quote]

I saved richter first; meaning you can't hit start until after you warp; so I had to warp there; warp back; hit select for map; print screen; paste it into paint made sure it captured right; then moved back into the other castle; thats a full minute

The 20 seconds is justifyed as this. The wait time; (though it is slightly more for walking in and out of that room); but ias soon as i entered the outerwall; I dropped down; to there; Hellfire canceled past the armor knight (hold DOWN after you cast a hellfire and move; you wont fire fireballs); entered; broke wall; waited; got it; walked out; same way; got the map down there; overall; its ~ 20 second loss; as i forgot that jewel knuckles wouldn't help in the bosses i was fighting mostly; and i could grab them quickly after getting bat/mist.

-> Who is legion: its not SoTN's name; but other things; its the big ball of corpses with the w/e in the middle...

-> did i backdash all the time -> No; i did it about 60% of the time; and i didn't even use the shield backdash trick; if you hit backdash and shield quick enough in succession (basicly turbo friendly) You can backdash up to 2-3x the normal speed; for non-turbo people this is a pain to keep up so most dont do it; but all TAS runs will abuse it...

Satoryu

2007-05-03 10:05:07 pm

Visually Appealing

use modify next time. didn't have to double post.

the best way to deal with bosses until getting Crissaegrim is Shield Rod/Iron Shield. watch Persona's 1st castle run. that'll show you how to get enough money to buy the Iron Shield. (Garnet in the second room of Outer Wall, Onyx in hidden room in beginning of Olrox's quarters.)

the reason i called Granfaloon Legion is because Legion is it's real name. all other games it appears in goes by this name, including jap SotN. America just decided to redo all enemy names, most of which were given names from the Tolkien mythos.

more examples: the Crissaegrim should really be called the Valmanway. and Karasuman is really named Malphas.

Ishmayl

2007-05-04 03:39:24 am

I'm probably actually going to skip Crissaegrim. For one, it's pretty uninteresting to watch someone beat the game like that, and for another, it's potentially a lot of extra time fighting schmoos (or whatever they're called). I knew about the iron shield/SR, and I'll leave that as an option, but I can kill most of the bosses pretty quickly (and a lot more interestingly) with my standard weapons and spells. But it may be necessary for time saving, so I'll plan on getting it in the run.

Satoryu

2007-05-04 03:56:51 am

Visually Appealing

hrm. SDA wants runs to be as fast as possible. keeping it entertaining is somewhat important, but speed comes before everything. i can understand skipping the Crissaegrim as it'll take many tries to get it on the first drop. (it is possible though. i've done it.) but not using the Iron Shield combo is inexcusable for a big run like this.

speed above all else.