Castlevania: Symphony Of The Night

2006-01-18 10:40:46 pm

Let's fight to computer!

AFAIK the only percentage the game actually tracks is map space cleared... so some people might choose to interpret low% as "minimum number of locations visited". Which might be an interesting challenge in itself.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-01-19 12:17:58 am

2006-01-19 12:17:06 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

I think that should count as 100% (i.e. 200.6% would be 100%) but low% should "do it naked" regardless of rooms visited. Because otherwise it wouldn't be much "lower" than the "any%" run, it's not like it's got a whole big bunch of unnecessary rooms.

I'm not quite sure I'd want to watch a 200.6% completion though...

Radix

2006-01-19 12:41:03 am

I'm addicted to games

There's no need for 200.6%. You just need whatever it is the game needs for the best ending, 199.2 or something. Then it's a "Best time with best ending" run.

"100%" would be getting all relics.
"low%" could be done as minimal kills with fist only :-p

Lucid Faia

2006-01-19 05:21:29 am

Yeah, I said it.

Thanks for the compliments, everyone. Smiley

I don't know what happened with the sound... the VHS played back perfectly at my house. It's probably a case of tape damage thanks to those dumbfucks at UPS. That's unfortunate.

Quote:

On your way back after getting the Leap Stone, instead of just jumping from platform to platform, try to doublejump then downwards kick from platform to platform. I think I was actually able to outrun the Flea Riders using that method back when I was doing a Minimum Kill run (since Flea Riders could kill you FAST when you're at such a low level). You could also use that doublejump/stomp trick at times whenever Alucard isn't backdashing or wingsmashing.

That's an interesting idea. I'll try it in the future.

Quote:

There's no need for 200.6%. You just need whatever it is the game needs for the best ending, 199.2 or something. Then it's a "Best time with best ending" run.

Yes, but everyone knows that 200.6% is the "true" full completion rating, not 199.2 or 215.x with glitches or whatever. To me, a 199.2% run would seem like an excuse to skip the more out-of-the-way or more difficult rooms.

Thanks for the compliments, everyone. :)

I don't know what happened with the sound... the VHS played back perfectly at my house. It's probably a case of tape damage thanks to those dumbfucks at UPS. That's unfortunate.

[quote]On your way back after getting the Leap Stone, instead of just jumping from platform to platform, try to doublejump then downwards kick from platform to platform.  I think I was actually able to outrun the Flea Riders using that method back when I was doing a Minimum Kill run (since Flea Riders could kill you FAST when you're at such a low level).  You could also use that doublejump/stomp trick at times whenever Alucard isn't backdashing or wingsmashing.[/quote]

That's an interesting idea. I'll try it in the future.

[quote]There's no need for 200.6%. You just need whatever it is the game needs for the best ending, 199.2 or something. Then it's a "Best time with best ending" run.[/quote]

Yes, but everyone knows that 200.6% is the "true" full completion rating, not 199.2 or 215.x with glitches or whatever. To me, a 199.2% run would seem like an excuse to skip the more out-of-the-way or more difficult rooms.

Gorash

2006-01-19 01:20:01 pm

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

Quote:

Yes, but everyone knows that 200.6% is the "true" full completion rating, not 199.2 or 215.x with glitches or whatever. To me, a 199.2% run would seem like an excuse to skip the more out-of-the-way or more difficult rooms.

+1.
There's no 100% DKC run either, only a 101%.
Going for just the best ending is half-assed, you might as well show the audience the last 10 rooms.

spineshark

2006-01-19 02:30:38 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Quote:

Yes, but everyone knows that 200.6% is the "true" full completion rating, not 199.2 or 215.x with glitches or whatever. To me, a 199.2% run would seem like an excuse to skip the more out-of-the-way or more difficult rooms.

I know I'm missing a few (my counter is at the oh-so-lovely 199.9) but it seems to me that a couple of the upside-down water "rooms" are a ridiculous pain to get...

But anybody who doesn't kill Galamoth for the best ending is an unbelievable wuss. Assuming that's even possible...

Is the Duplicator one of the Relics? I still haven't bought mine.

kwinse

2006-01-19 04:05:13 pm

No, the duplicator is an equipable item iirc...

Galamoth is a pushover with the beryl (?) circlet...

And I find a good way to fill in the top of those upside down boatman rooms is to superjump to the top followed by a wolf transformation and a little bit of swimming at the ceiling to make sure you fill it in.

Enhasa

2006-02-03 06:07:27 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

A little late, but I agree with everyone on the 200.6%.

Also, I think swimming with the wolf is the only way to get those last couple of blocks.

Lucid Faia

2006-02-18 09:36:17 pm

Yeah, I said it.

Just a heads up... the run's been recaptured, and the sound problem fixed.

Ashane

2006-04-12 04:22:32 am

Just checked this out. Pretty impressive, but far from perfect.

Also, I think it's pretty lame that you say on the run page that there's no glitches. Just about all the "tricks" that you pull off are blatant glitches. "Programmer's oversight"? You could say that shit about any glitch.

Anyway, this has motivated me to finish my speedrun of this game with Alucard. I'll do it on the Saturn version with two vids, glitches and no glitches. Expect a new time for SotN. Being a player of this game since 1997, I'd say I have the motivation...

Lucid Faia

2006-04-12 06:38:56 am

Yeah, I said it.

Quote:

Just checked this out. Pretty impressive, but far from perfect.

Also, I think it's pretty lame that you say on the run page that there's no glitches. Just about all the "tricks" that you pull off are blatant glitches. "Programmer's oversight"? You could say that shit about any glitch.

Anyway, this has motivated me to finish my speedrun of this game with Alucard. I'll do it on the Saturn version with two vids, glitches and no glitches. Expect a new time for SotN. Being a player of this game since 1997, I'd say I have the motivation...

You're aware of what exactly constitutes a "glitch," right? A programmer's oversight is nothing more than an ingenious tactic that the programmers of the game never took into account. A glitch is exactly what it sounds like, a glitch in the programming.

Take Metroid on the NES for instance. Getting to Tourian early is a brilliant programmer's oversight, but there's no way it's a glitch. As it pertains to Castlevania SOTN, using a potion in the "Spike Breaker" hallway isn't a glitch, because you're supposed to have temporary invincibility when using a potion. It falls in line with the code of the game, and was entirely intended to happen. The same holds true for bouncing off of a torch. Try using the Leap Stone's downwards kick to bounce off a torch, it works perfectly fine.

Honestly, I don't think you have the first clue for what a "glitch" really is.

Other than that, thank you for your opinion, and good luck with the runs.

[quote]Just checked this out. Pretty impressive, but far from perfect.

Also, I think it's pretty lame that you say on the run page that there's no glitches. Just about all the "tricks" that you pull off are blatant glitches. "Programmer's oversight"? You could say that shit about any glitch.

Anyway, this has motivated me to finish my speedrun of this game with Alucard. I'll do it on the Saturn version with two vids, glitches and no glitches. Expect a new time for SotN. Being a player of this game since 1997, I'd say I have the motivation...[/quote]

You're aware of what exactly constitutes a "glitch," right? A programmer's oversight is nothing more than an ingenious tactic that the programmers of the game never took into account. A glitch is exactly what it sounds like, a glitch in the programming.

Take Metroid on the NES for instance. Getting to Tourian early is a brilliant programmer's oversight, but there's no way it's a glitch. As it pertains to Castlevania SOTN, using a potion in the "Spike Breaker" hallway isn't a glitch, because you're supposed to have temporary invincibility when using a potion. It falls in line with the code of the game, and was entirely intended to happen. The same holds true for bouncing off of a torch. Try using the Leap Stone's downwards kick to bounce off a torch, it works perfectly fine.

Honestly, I don't think you have the first clue for what a "glitch" really is.

Other than that, thank you for your opinion, and good luck with the runs.

SkippyJr

2006-04-12 06:24:08 pm

Signboard of Hyrule

I saw this run when it came out, but did not comment then. I learned quite a lot from your run and found it to be quite enjoyable. It even inspired me to pick up the game again after many years and play it for the fun of sequence breaking. There are a lot of places and items you get early with divekicks and wolf jumps alone. Fun, fun, fun.

Here's my speed tip: If you have a shield equipped, you can backdash faster by repeatedly pulling the shield out while backdashing.

Since your run came out, I have found a partial (ends before Dracula) speed run done in luck mode performed on the Saturn's Japanese version. There are a two Saturn-specific SB's that are made use of, but other than that the two routes are quite the same. I bring this run up as a method to compare/contrast with SDA's champion run in case anyone would ever be crazy enough for a new record, or if the Saturn version is ever run.

Google translated SoTN site, the 23 minute 53 second vid (even though it is nearly half the time as Lucid's, it is not comparable). The site also has damageless boss battles.

Notable Differences (couldn't tell you if one way is faster/better than another):
- For both Soul of Wolf and Ring of Vlad, he leaves the room and then comes back in so that the gate is open/item is constituted.
- For general Vlad parts, he divekicks sideways then goes into bat mode and performs wing smash, while Lucid is waiting in bat mode (and then does a wing smash).
- In the inverted caslte, he uses a few divekicks to reach higher places rather than bat form.
- He climbs the reverse outer wall differently.
- Lucid's version wins right after The Creature with the backdash+wingsmash to cross the long corridor.

Along with using luck mode (and skipping loosing the items to Death) and ending at the save before Dracula, the Saturn version has:
- skip Richter (or skip the bad ending). In SotN the leave-the-battle glitch is possible, but the battle begins anew if you come back (unless I'm doing something wrong).
- skip Death. Is the last relic (Eye of Vlad) not required in the Saturn version?
- Although not in this run, I've seen that the first encouter with Dracula can be skipped with a well placed backdash (Saturn only probably).

Again I say that I really liked you run alot. Hopefully, there is something useful that can be gleaned from that other run.

I saw this run when it came out, but did not comment then.  I learned quite a lot from your run and found it to be quite enjoyable.  It even inspired me to pick up the game again after many years and play it for the fun of sequence breaking.  There are a lot of places and items you get early with divekicks and wolf jumps alone.  Fun, fun, fun.

Here's my speed tip:  If you have a shield equipped, you can backdash faster by repeatedly pulling the shield out while backdashing.

Since your run came out, I have found a partial (ends before Dracula) speed run done in luck mode performed on the Saturn's Japanese version.  There are a two Saturn-specific SB's that are made use of, but other than that the two routes are quite the same.  I bring this run up as a method to compare/contrast with SDA's champion run in case anyone would ever be crazy enough for a new record, or if the Saturn version is ever run.

[url=http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fsyagami.hp.infoseek.co.jp%2F&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
]Google translated SoTN site[/url], the 23 minute 53 second vid (even though it is nearly half the time as Lucid's, it is not comparable).  The site also has damageless boss battles.

Notable Differences (couldn't tell you if one way is faster/better than another):
- For both Soul of Wolf and Ring of Vlad, he leaves the room and then comes back in so that the gate is open/item is constituted.
- For general Vlad parts, he divekicks sideways then goes into bat mode and performs wing smash, while Lucid is waiting in bat mode (and then does a wing smash).
- In the inverted caslte, he uses a few divekicks to reach higher places rather than bat form.
- He climbs the reverse outer wall differently.
- Lucid's version wins right after The Creature with the backdash+wingsmash to cross the long corridor.

Along with using luck mode (and skipping loosing the items to Death) and ending at the save before Dracula, the Saturn version has:
- skip Richter (or skip the bad ending).  In SotN the leave-the-battle glitch is possible, but the battle begins anew if you come back (unless I'm doing something wrong).
- skip Death.  Is the last relic (Eye of Vlad) not required in the Saturn version?
- Although not in this run, I've seen that the first encouter with Dracula can be skipped with a well placed backdash (Saturn only probably).

Again I say that I really liked you run alot.  Hopefully, there is something useful that can be gleaned from that other run.

Persona

Edit history:

Persona: 2006-04-12 10:33:55 pm

2006-04-12 10:21:21 pm

Castlevania?

Are you sure that's the SS version? Doesn't look like it to me due to its effects (SS' transformation effects are different) and loading times (SS loads very slow and every time you enter the sub menu).

And I'm guessing he could skip Death's relic because he never met Death from the start?

qqwref

2006-04-12 10:27:44 pm

I like this site name cause it's easy to remember.

Question: There's a sword that you can get very early - I think it's called the Basilard or something - that lets you attack extremely rapidly. Are you using it for a significant portion of the run (at least the first half)? If not, why not?

Lucid Faia

2006-04-13 12:44:12 am

Yeah, I said it.

I don't use a Basilard at all.

Barehanded punches may not be as powerful as the Basilard, and the Basilard is quite fast, but at close range, you can score two hits in one attack with a punch, something you can't do with the Basilard. So in the right range, punches are more useful.

Ashane

2006-04-14 03:04:32 am

Quote:

You're aware of what exactly constitutes a "glitch," right? A programmer's oversight is nothing more than an ingenious tactic that the programmers of the game never took into account. A glitch is exactly what it sounds like, a glitch in the programming.

Take Metroid on the NES for instance. Getting to Tourian early is a brilliant programmer's oversight, but there's no way it's a glitch. As it pertains to Castlevania SOTN, using a potion in the "Spike Breaker" hallway isn't a glitch, because you're supposed to have temporary invincibility when using a potion. It falls in line with the code of the game, and was entirely intended to happen. The same holds true for bouncing off of a torch. Try using the Leap Stone's downwards kick to bounce off a torch, it works perfectly fine.

Honestly, I don't think you have the first clue for what a "glitch" really is.

Other than that, thank you for your opinion, and good luck with the runs.

From wikipedia, "In video games, a glitch is a term used by players to indicate a bug or programming error of some sort. It may refer to either a helpful or harmful error, but never an intended behavior."
(src)

"A minor malfunction, mishap, or technical problem; a snag" (Dictionary.com)

Sure, you may argue that the tricks used in your run are legitimate on the grounds that even though they exploit certain vulnerabilities in the game's engine, the fact that they may be deemed "glitches" are whether their effect is intended or not by the programmers, which cannot be determined.

Then I ask you, why then aren't these series of tricks you used not anywhere in SotN's manual? Surely any implementable technique should be included with the game's original documentation. I don't see anything about being able to bypass spikes with a life apple.

"Programmers oversight"

That's rich.

[quote]

You're aware of what exactly constitutes a "glitch," right? A programmer's oversight is nothing more than an ingenious tactic that the programmers of the game never took into account. A glitch is exactly what it sounds like, a glitch in the programming.

Take Metroid on the NES for instance. Getting to Tourian early is a brilliant programmer's oversight, but there's no way it's a glitch. As it pertains to Castlevania SOTN, using a potion in the "Spike Breaker" hallway isn't a glitch, because you're supposed to have temporary invincibility when using a potion. It falls in line with the code of the game, and was entirely intended to happen. The same holds true for bouncing off of a torch. Try using the Leap Stone's downwards kick to bounce off a torch, it works perfectly fine.

Honestly, I don't think you have the first clue for what a "glitch" really is.

Other than that, thank you for your opinion, and good luck with the runs.[/quote]

From wikipedia, "In video games, a glitch is a term used by players to indicate a bug or programming error of some sort. It may refer to either a helpful or harmful error, but never an intended behavior." 
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glitch](src)[/url]

"A minor malfunction, mishap, or technical problem; a snag" (Dictionary.com)

Sure, you may argue that the tricks used in your run are legitimate on the grounds that even though they exploit certain vulnerabilities in the game's engine, the fact that they may be deemed "glitches" are whether their effect is intended or not by the programmers, which cannot be determined.

Then I ask you, why then aren't these series of tricks you used not anywhere in SotN's manual? Surely any implementable technique should be included with the game's original documentation. I don't see anything about being able to bypass spikes with a life apple.

"Programmers oversight"

That's rich.

Ashane

2006-04-14 03:14:47 am

Quote:

Are you sure that's the SS version? Doesn't look like it to me due to its effects (SS' transformation effects are different) and loading times (SS loads very slow and every time you enter the sub menu).

And I'm guessing he could skip Death's relic because he never met Death from the start?

It's not the Saturn version. Don't need Google translation btw :). He says on there that he prefers the Playstation version over Saturn because the kick is stronger.

Lucid Faia

Edit history:

Lucid Faia: 2006-04-14 06:05:54 am

2006-04-14 06:04:31 am

Yeah, I said it.

Quote:

Sure, you may argue that the tricks used in your run are legitimate on the grounds that even though they exploit certain vulnerabilities in the game's engine, the fact that they may be deemed "glitches" are whether their effect is intended or not by the programmers, which cannot be determined.

Then I ask you, why then aren't these series of tricks you used not anywhere in SotN's manual? Surely any implementable technique should be included with the game's original documentation. I don't see anything about being able to bypass spikes with a life apple.

"Programmers oversight"

That's rich.

A glitch is just what that definition said it was: an error in the programming, a technical problem. When I think of "glitches," I think of FF3/6j's Sketch Glitch, Super Metroid's Murder Beam, and walking through walls in Super Mario 64. Oversights and other various speed tricks are not necessarily glitches. Again I refer to the NES Metroid example. It's obviously an unintended trick, and not something referenced in the Metroid manual (which also said that Samus is a man), but I challenge you to explain to me how it's a technical error in the programming.

You also dodged the question of how exactly the tricks I use could be considered glitches. Being able to step on spikes briefly by using a potion is not a glitch, because a potion will do the same for any other damaging object or enemy in the game. You are supposed to have a window of safety while using a potion. The same holds true for bouncing off of a torch. Torches have been hittable since the very first Castlevania, and Alucard bounces whenever the downwards kick connects with an enemy or something that can be hit. In fact, in casual play, I sometimes mess with Lord Dracula by bouncing off of his head repeatedly for almost the entire battle.

Basically, I believe your idea of what constitutes a glitch is incorrect.

[quote]

Sure, you may argue that the tricks used in your run are legitimate on the grounds that even though they exploit certain vulnerabilities in the game's engine, the fact that they may be deemed "glitches" are whether their effect is intended or not by the programmers, which cannot be determined.

Then I ask you, why then aren't these series of tricks you used not anywhere in SotN's manual? Surely any implementable technique should be included with the game's original documentation. I don't see anything about being able to bypass spikes with a life apple.

"Programmers oversight"

That's rich.[/quote]

A glitch is just what that definition said it was: an error in the programming, a technical problem. When I think of "glitches," I think of FF3/6j's Sketch Glitch, Super Metroid's Murder Beam, and walking through walls in Super Mario 64. Oversights and other various speed tricks are not necessarily glitches. Again I refer to the NES Metroid example. It's obviously an unintended trick, and not something referenced in the Metroid manual (which also said that Samus is a man), but I challenge you to explain to me how it's a technical error in the programming.

You also dodged the question of how exactly the tricks I use could be considered glitches. Being able to step on spikes briefly by using a potion is not a glitch, because a potion will do the same for any other damaging object or enemy in the game. You are [i]supposed[/i] to have a window of safety while using a potion. The same holds true for bouncing off of a torch. Torches have been hittable since the very first Castlevania, and Alucard bounces whenever the downwards kick connects with an enemy or something that can be hit. In fact, in casual play, I sometimes mess with Lord Dracula by bouncing off of his head repeatedly for almost the entire battle.

Basically, I believe your idea of what constitutes a glitch is incorrect.

Zen

2006-04-14 07:00:04 am

Forward standard-by-ten .

Really, they're not so much programming oversights as they are level design that isn't as obstructive as they'd hoped. The corridor was built with spikes for a reason, but it turns out that the game mechanics provide a way through anyway. The ledge was made a certain height, and nobody realized putting the torch there would have the ramifications it did. Variables like this happen all the time.

It's like calling the wall jump into Kraid's lair a glitch. The problem isn't in the programming or the game design, but simply in the level design.

Lucid Faia

2006-04-14 07:56:46 am

Yeah, I said it.

Quote:

Really, they're not so much programming oversights as they are level design that isn't as obstructive as they'd hoped. The corridor was built with spikes for a reason, but it turns out that the game mechanics provide a way through anyway. The ledge was made a certain height, and nobody realized putting the torch there would have the ramifications it did. Variables like this happen all the time.

It's like calling the wall jump into Kraid's lair a glitch. The problem isn't in the programming or the game design, but simply in the level design.

Well said.

Ashane

2006-04-15 01:34:27 am

Quote:

A glitch is just what that definition said it was: an error in the programming, a technical problem. When I think of "glitches," I think of FF3/6j's Sketch Glitch, Super Metroid's Murder Beam, and walking through walls in Super Mario 64. Oversights and other various speed tricks are not necessarily glitches. Again I refer to the NES Metroid example. It's obviously an unintended trick, and not something referenced in the Metroid manual (which also said that Samus is a man), but I challenge you to explain to me how it's a technical error in the programming.

You also dodged the question of how exactly the tricks I use could be considered glitches. Being able to step on spikes briefly by using a potion is not a glitch, because a potion will do the same for any other damaging object or enemy in the game. You are supposed to have a window of safety while using a potion. The same holds true for bouncing off of a torch. Torches have been hittable since the very first Castlevania, and Alucard bounces whenever the downwards kick connects with an enemy or something that can be hit. In fact, in casual play, I sometimes mess with Lord Dracula by bouncing off of his head repeatedly for almost the entire battle.

Basically, I believe your idea of what constitutes a glitch is incorrect.

The timeline of progression in the game becomes skewed as you bypass supposed essential steps in which the game is designed; not getting bat radar, skipping the Catacombs...

This is just how these games work (Super Metroid, CV GBA games, etc). You need one thing to explore another area, and there you get something for another area, and so on. The game is designed so that to get the Silver Ring, you need the Spike Breaker armor.

The trick you use is an exploit of a loophole in the game's system. You found a glitch in the system. Even though it is not a technical bug in the game's actual programming, the fact still remains that it is a glitch.

I'm not scorning that kind of gameplay, I'm just scorning the fact that you have a speedrun on a website with a low time and a nice little note that says you did it without glitching. I'm calling bullshit. We've stated our opinions, so there's not much we can say beyond that.

Yeah, and I can bounce Dracula too. Not too hard.

[quote]

A glitch is just what that definition said it was: an error in the programming, a technical problem. When I think of "glitches," I think of FF3/6j's Sketch Glitch, Super Metroid's Murder Beam, and walking through walls in Super Mario 64. Oversights and other various speed tricks are not necessarily glitches. Again I refer to the NES Metroid example. It's obviously an unintended trick, and not something referenced in the Metroid manual (which also said that Samus is a man), but I challenge you to explain to me how it's a technical error in the programming.

You also dodged the question of how exactly the tricks I use could be considered glitches. Being able to step on spikes briefly by using a potion is not a glitch, because a potion will do the same for any other damaging object or enemy in the game. You are [i]supposed[/i] to have a window of safety while using a potion. The same holds true for bouncing off of a torch. Torches have been hittable since the very first Castlevania, and Alucard bounces whenever the downwards kick connects with an enemy or something that can be hit. In fact, in casual play, I sometimes mess with Lord Dracula by bouncing off of his head repeatedly for almost the entire battle.

Basically, I believe your idea of what constitutes a glitch is incorrect.[/quote]

The timeline of progression in the game becomes skewed as you bypass supposed essential steps in which the game is designed; not getting bat radar, skipping the Catacombs...

This is just how these games work (Super Metroid, CV GBA games, etc). You need one thing to explore another area, and there you get something for another area, and so on. The game is designed so that to get the Silver Ring, you need the Spike Breaker armor.

The trick you use is an exploit of a loophole in the game's system. You found a [b]glitch[/b] in the [b]system[/b]. Even though it is not a technical bug in the game's actual programming, the fact still remains that it is a glitch.

I'm not scorning that kind of gameplay, I'm just scorning the fact that you have a speedrun on a website with a low time and a nice little note that says you did it without glitching. I'm calling bullshit. We've stated our opinions, so there's not much we can say beyond that.

Yeah, and I can bounce Dracula too. Not too hard.

Josh the Funkdoc

2006-04-15 02:41:19 am

spread the dirt to the populace

Ashane: What you are describing is exactly what this community calls a "sequence break." It also has long been accepted here that a sequence break is not necessarily a glitch, and the tricks in this run are examples of this.

-Josh

Ashane

2006-04-15 03:58:24 am

Quote:

Ashane: What you are describing is exactly what this community calls a "sequence break." It also has long been accepted here that a sequence break is not necessarily a glitch, and the tricks in this run are examples of this.

-Josh

Still think it's a glitch.

kthx

Lucid Faia

Edit history:

Lucid Faia: 2006-04-15 04:01:25 am

2006-04-15 03:59:57 am

Yeah, I said it.

Quote:

The trick you use is an exploit of a loophole in the game's system. You found a glitch in the system. Even though it is not a technical bug in the game's actual programming, the fact still remains that it is a glitch.

Remember those definitions you posted, in your attempt to prove me wrong? They say that a glitch is a "malfunction, technical problem, bug, or programming error." I agree wholeheartedly. But now you're going against what you posted earlier to say that unless you play a game exactly the way a casual gamer would play it, you're "glitching" the game? Which one is it? You're contradicting yourself.

There is a difference between glitches and other speed tricks, such as sequence breaks. Using the Sword Brothers spell to sell 255 Diamonds to the Librarian, or to get your completion percentage well above 200.6%, THOSE are glitches. Using perfectly legal and intended tactics in a way that the programmers/designers never thought of to sequence break: not glitches.

Quote:

Still think it's a glitch.

kthx

This isn't helping your case. Anyone can say "kthx" or add some sort of dismissal at the end of a post to make themselves look better, but it doesn't mean you're winning the argument.

[quote]

The trick you use is an exploit of a loophole in the game's system. You found a [b]glitch[/b] in the [b]system[/b]. Even though it is not a technical bug in the game's actual programming, the fact still remains that it is a glitch.[/quote]

Remember those definitions you posted, in your attempt to prove me wrong? They say that a glitch is a "malfunction, technical problem, bug, or programming error." I agree wholeheartedly. But now you're going against what you posted earlier to say that unless you play a game exactly the way a casual gamer would play it, you're "glitching" the game? Which one is it? You're contradicting yourself.

There is a difference between glitches and other speed tricks, such as sequence breaks. Using the Sword Brothers spell to sell 255 Diamonds to the Librarian, or to get your completion percentage well above 200.6%, THOSE are glitches. Using perfectly legal and intended tactics in a way that the programmers/designers never thought of to sequence break: not glitches.

[quote]

Still think it's a glitch.

kthx[/quote]

This isn't helping your case. Anyone can say "kthx" or add some sort of dismissal at the end of a post to make themselves look better, but it doesn't mean you're winning the argument.

Zen

2006-04-15 04:14:46 am

Forward standard-by-ten .

Quote:

kthx

Apology accepted.