Castlevania - Dawn of Sorrow

2009-04-16 12:00:58 pm

Visually Appealing

never should a Castlevania run end at the bad ending. always beat the final boss.

that could just be my opinion, but notice how no run like that exists for SotN or AoS.

besides, it would actually be faster to glitch directly to Menace in a NG+, wouldn't it?

MrNintendo

2009-04-16 02:12:31 pm

Tears, they fall just like runs that are too slow.

Well, I won't be exploiting glitches, just normal running. And I am using this NG+ as a kind of proving ground. I will try this, then do a NG+ good ending, then try a fresh file run of Mediocre and Good endings.

I don't know if you remember me, but I made a rejected Timesplitters 2 run, but I'm just building my skills.

Oh, actually, there was an AoS run done on the bad/mediocre ending on YT (Japanese Version). It was the only run I could ever find on YT of AoS.

MrNintendo

2009-04-16 04:23:07 pm

Tears, they fall just like runs that are too slow.

I finished the first part of my speed run (5 segments). I use more saves than would be advisable, but my skills aren't good enough yet. Wink

I just killed Balore. Man, NG+ is way easier than a fresh file.

Satoryu

2009-04-16 07:34:29 pm

Visually Appealing

Quote from MrNintendo:

Oh, actually, there was an AoS run done on the bad/mediocre ending on YT (Japanese Version). It was the only run I could ever find on YT of AoS.

i meant to say no run like that exists here at SDA.

even without using Succubus glitch to warp through walls and get to Menace immediately, you can still break NG+. you can make a B line to the Mine of Judgment. that requires using SG to pass through locked doors, and a modification of it to get past the drawbridge while its still raised. the only boss you should be fighting is Menace, but Flying Armor might be required to do the trick i mentioned. i don't exactly remember, and the forum where this stuff was documented has been terminated.

Serris

2009-04-16 09:45:18 pm

The SG drawbridge skip is only needed for runs without OoBing and glitched souls, which are a result of OoBing and thus were unavailable for SDA runs until the rule change I believe, but I don't like them either way. I can think of quite a few "arbitrary" categories just for NG+, you'll just have to find out how many of them SDA considers acceptable. OoB and OoB-free I can see, but "no glitches at all" doesn't sound too feasible, and neither does any ending except the best one. I don't know why you'd want to do such a run in NG+, either, since you won't need to manipulate any pesky soul drops assuming you're using a "perfect" file.

MrNintendo

2009-04-17 05:46:39 am

Tears, they fall just like runs that are too slow.

As I just said, my run is not anything official, or even good. I'm just Using it for practice at the game and Castlevania games in general. I will post it on YT, because I just want to. Wink

But beware, I suck majorly in comparison to a lot of Castlevania runners. Tongue

MrNintendo

2009-04-20 03:53:24 pm

Tears, they fall just like runs that are too slow.

A few more segments recorded today. all are near the 2 minute size.

MrNintendo

2009-04-22 01:04:31 pm

Tears, they fall just like runs that are too slow.

So far I've used approx. 45 minutes and I just killed Gergoth (absolutly no glitches).

Satoryu

2009-04-22 02:40:29 pm

Visually Appealing

pretty sure the entire game can be beaten in under that time with these conditions. Persona's NG+ run had a quicker time than that, and i don't think he used Succubus at all.

how are you moving around? do you use Valkyrie and Ukoback/Werewolf?

also, Gergoth is completely unnecessary, even in New Game. you can use the Cutall's special ability to open switches on the other side of walls. doing this skips Gergoth, Puppet Master, and Rahab. if you tell me that's a glitch, i'm going to have to smack you.

MrNintendo

2009-04-22 05:22:39 pm

Tears, they fall just like runs that are too slow.

Well, I of course don't consider the cutall a glitch. Grin

I didn't have every single soul, mainly just the most common and ones I sought out in my old file (like Enirys and Great Axe Armor)

So pretty much I just walk and jump to move. Like I said before, my run isn't meant to be a record breaker, just a run. The only run I am actually considering creating for SDA is a Final Fantasy VIII run. Sometime later I will come back and improve this run, but for now I will settle for it being 'average'

MrNintendo

2009-04-23 02:53:28 pm

Tears, they fall just like runs that are too slow.

I was so messed up and annoyed at my run that I erased the camera and made a new NG+ file. I just recorded the new first segment and it is MUCH better. I made it from the beginning, through the flying armor and saved near Yoko's shop in approx. 2:30.

MrNintendo

2009-04-27 01:03:57 pm

Tears, they fall just like runs that are too slow.

I have just beaten Dario on my improved run, and I believe I've only used 23-24 minutes.

MrNintendo

2009-04-29 10:55:10 am

Tears, they fall just like runs that are too slow.

Finally!

Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow

New Game Plus/Dario Dies (bad) Ending

Total Time: 1 hour 8 minutes 24 seconds

timing starts when file is selected and ends when YES is selected for a save/when final blow lands on Dario 2.

I used a total of 32 segments. I could probably bring this under 45 minutes with a perfect file and practice. No glitches were used. I will post this on YouTube as soon as I can.

MrNintendo

2009-05-18 03:43:16 pm

Tears, they fall just like runs that are too slow.

Alright!

42 minutes 52 seconds

I made another NG+ run with the Dario Dies ending. This one was improved a whole bunch by skipping Rahab, Gergoth and the Puppet Master. I will need a while to calm my nerves for another attempt, but I think I could knock it down to sub 35 minutes. In the meantime, I may make some speed runs of Portrait of Ruin's boss rush mode.

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2009-09-11 02:47:25 pm

2009-09-11 02:38:24 pm

Quits halfway

I guess I'll just bump this instead of making a new topic...

I'm working on a bunch of speedruns for this game, and will be able to record in what should be SDA quality once I get a tripod.

The test runs I've finished are

SS NG+ without warping Hard mode - 34:04
NG with in-bounds SG - 38:04

I'm working on NG without warping, should be ~50 minutes.

Here's a tentative segment against Paranoia, any suggestions would be appreciated. I blame my recording setup for the slides and inconsistent jump kicks. And I don't plan to get raped by Malachi in the future.

I made a page at strategy wiki, it has a bit of info from Pile of Secrets (which i'm hoping is okay to use) and the routes I used.

If you have any suggestions for changes to them, then you can go ahead and edit them, but please post what you changed and the reasoning. Not that my routes are perfect, but just so that it won't be necessary to check the History on it constantly.

As for the unfinished portions, I'm planning to go ahead and write them at some point. On the slim chance that someone somehow beats me to it, then that's fine too.

I guess I'll just bump this instead of making a new topic...

I'm working on a bunch of speedruns for this game, and will be able to record in what should be SDA quality once I get a tripod.

The test runs I've finished are

SS NG+ without warping Hard mode - 34:04
NG with in-bounds SG - 38:04

I'm working on NG without warping, should be ~50 minutes.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyQ4O2BRdK0]Here's a tentative segment against Paranoia[/url], any suggestions would be appreciated. I blame my recording setup for the slides and inconsistent jump kicks. And I don't plan to get raped by Malachi in the future.

[url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/index.php/Castlevania:_Dawn_of_Sorrow]I made a page at strategy wiki[/url], it has a bit of info from Pile of Secrets (which i'm hoping is okay to use) and the routes I used.

If you have any suggestions for changes to them, then you can go ahead and edit them, but please post what you changed and the reasoning. Not that my routes are perfect, but just so that it won't be necessary to check the History on it constantly.

As for the unfinished portions, I'm planning to go ahead and write them at some point. On the slim chance that someone somehow beats me to it, then that's fine too.

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2009-09-13 04:43:48 am

2009-09-12 03:14:59 am

Quits halfway

Aguni Fight - lags at the end

So, basically, if anyone is willing to offer it, Aguni critiquing would be nice. That's more or less the best strat I could come up with (although the save I went with was 11 seconds faster).

I decided to stock up during the Erinys/cutscene segment, there's a few reasons for this: 1) I'm already warping around, so don't need to go to the extra room in The Abyss 2) I'm basically out of supplies 3) I think that I should be able to make these last for all the rest of the fights. Getting the Fragarach made a huge difference, and thanks to it I was able to max out on both kinds of Mind Ups. This was also nice to see, because it means that some of my MP conservation wasn't totally necessary (I'd probably spend another mind up on Aguni next time, to save about 10 seconds).

I went ahead and picked up the Truffle, but I'm going to see if I can reasonably avoid using it, since it's a room out of the way.

My plan is basically, kill Death, save. Then do the next segment of the Abyss without potions. As long as I get past the first 3 rooms without incident, it should go rather smoothly. I need to find an easy way to kill Abaddon that results in me not getting hit very much at all while being fast. I have Dead Pirate, so I'll be toying around with how easy it is to stay behind him, and what Bullet souls are most effective. For this fight, I think my method of attack will be Bhuj -> Bullet Soul -> Bhuj and so on.

I should be at Lv 27 when I get to Menace, so it'll be quite a bit easier than the in-bounds SG run.

My current time is 38:52, but there's about 15-20 seconds of errors in the last two segments, and by using another Mind Up on Aguni I could reasonably take off another 10 seconds minimum. I'll have to compare my time to Satoryu's after Death, but I should still be on track for 50 minutes.

K, so got bored today, and finished up the NG non-warp run. Since it was daylght I couldn't record, but it would have all been boring to watch.

Final time was 48:20 (unless I go back and beat Menace faster). Death took 1.5 minutes from the save point, Ukoback was the fastest method on him (although there were a couple chances for a Yorick kick). Abaddon was laughably easy as well. Yorick on the way in, jump over him and Dead Pirate + Ukoback.

As for items, there's just a couple observations. Truffle is unnecessary, here's how healing for Menace went; I got hit twice during the first phase (which shouldn't happen), then Black Panther'd into the legs a couple times, and got hit by a couple black things (including one just before the last hit that cost 6+ seconds), and used 2 regular Potions and 4 High Potions. Had the mushroom, truffle, and another High Potion left. So, all pretty avoidable stuff, but there was never a need for a Truffle in any attempts. On my latest attempt, only got hit 3 times, requiring 2 Potions and 2 High Potions.

Against Death, I used 6 (!?!) Mind Ups, which is definitely worth it. Abaddon I used 0, because after Yorick + Ukoback, when you're out of MP it's only 1 or two Axe hits from death. It seems that with 3 Mind Ups, 9 High Mind Ups, and the Mana Prism is enough to cover Menace, and it's probably beneficial to use one during the first head.

I ended up at lv 28 (nowhere near 29 though), which really did make the fight way easier than I was expecting.

So yeah, pretty successful testrun I suppose, for the actual run I'll aim for under 48 minutes, which shouldn't be too difficult.

Next up is groobo's route.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09NnswjLch0]Aguni Fight[/url] - lags at the end

So, basically, if anyone is willing to offer it, Aguni critiquing would be nice. That's more or less the best strat I could come up with (although the save I went with was 11 seconds faster).

I decided to stock up during the Erinys/cutscene segment, there's a few reasons for this: 1) I'm already warping around, so don't need to go to the extra room in The Abyss 2) I'm basically out of supplies 3) I think that I should be able to make these last for all the rest of the fights. Getting the Fragarach made a huge difference, and thanks to it I was able to max out on both kinds of Mind Ups. This was also nice to see, because it means that some of my MP conservation wasn't totally necessary (I'd probably spend another mind up on Aguni next time, to save about 10 seconds).

I went ahead and picked up the Truffle, but I'm going to see if I can reasonably avoid using it, since it's a room out of the way.

My plan is basically, kill Death, save. Then do the next segment of the Abyss without potions. As long as I get past the first 3 rooms without incident, it should go rather smoothly. I need to find an easy way to kill Abaddon that results in me not getting hit very much at all while being fast. I have Dead Pirate, so I'll be toying around with how easy it is to stay behind him, and what Bullet souls are most effective. For this fight, I think my method of attack will be Bhuj -> Bullet Soul -> Bhuj and so on.

I should be at Lv 27 when I get to Menace, so it'll be quite a bit easier than the in-bounds SG run.

My current time is 38:52, but there's about 15-20 seconds of errors in the last two segments, and by using another Mind Up on Aguni I could reasonably take off another 10 seconds minimum. I'll have to compare my time to Satoryu's after Death, but I should still be on track for 50 minutes.

K, so got bored today, and finished up the NG non-warp run. Since it was daylght I couldn't record, but it would have all been boring to watch.

Final time was 48:20 (unless I go back and beat Menace faster). Death took 1.5 minutes from the save point, Ukoback was the fastest method on him (although there were a couple chances for a Yorick kick). Abaddon was laughably easy as well. Yorick on the way in, jump over him and Dead Pirate + Ukoback.

As for items, there's just a couple observations. Truffle is unnecessary, here's how healing for Menace went; I got hit twice during the first phase (which shouldn't happen), then Black Panther'd into the legs a couple times, and got hit by a couple black things (including one just before the last hit that cost 6+ seconds), and used 2 regular Potions and 4 High Potions. Had the mushroom, truffle, and another High Potion left. So, all pretty avoidable stuff, but there was never a need for a Truffle in any attempts. On my latest attempt, only got hit 3 times, requiring 2 Potions and 2 High Potions.

Against Death, I used 6 (!?!) Mind Ups, which is definitely worth it. Abaddon I used 0, because after Yorick + Ukoback, when you're out of MP it's only 1 or two Axe hits from death. It seems that with 3 Mind Ups, 9 High Mind Ups, and the Mana Prism is enough to cover Menace, and it's probably beneficial to use one during the first head.

I ended up at lv 28 (nowhere near 29 though), which really did make the fight way easier than I was expecting.

So yeah, pretty successful testrun I suppose, for the actual run I'll aim for under 48 minutes, which shouldn't be too difficult.

Next up is groobo's route.

Aftermath

2009-09-18 01:33:07 am

Quits halfway

Turns out I'm a liar. Abandoned the New Game run for a while because farming souls sucks.

Spent last night and tonight learning how to do Boss Rush and ending up getting a really good run.

Soma Boss Rush 1:22.50

Persona

2009-09-18 02:13:02 am

Castlevania?

Quote from Aftermath:

Soma Boss Rush 1:22.50

The only thing that makes me truly orgasmic about Castlevania speedruns are great bossrush records. You made my day, kind sir.

P.S. The quality of your video is also really good IMO (the bossrush vid). How did you get the screen to stay completely still?

Aftermath

2009-09-18 02:24:03 am

Quits halfway

To keep the DS still, I taped a GBA SP to a VCR, then taped the DS onto that (offset a bit so i have room for my fingers underneath) and just try to be careful of how hard I pull the triggers. It's still a little surprising that it didn't move more in some of the mashing parts.

Satoryu

2009-09-18 07:35:42 am

Visually Appealing

That was pretty impressive. But about soul harvesting, that's a challenge you should've been expecting to take when you jumped into speedrunning this game. Luck is a third of the run in Metroidvanias.

Aftermath

2009-09-19 11:46:29 am

Quits halfway

Satoryu, do you have a way to contact StuckInAPlate or happen to know what his most recent boss rush time is? I don't think it's sub 1:25 but it's probably better to find out before submitting anything.

I got the green light for recording with my setup, so I'll record the run I'm going to do of groobo's route. It's the shortest and has the least soul collecting so I might be able to finish it within the week. I'm getting a new computer so I'll record the future runs in a higher quality (60fps instead of 30). I don't think I'll submit that boss rush, I'll just try to beat it again next week.

Also, would anyone disagree with this layout of categories?

New Game without SG (cutall SBs)
New Game with SG (no OoB and IB distinction)

New Game+ without SG
New Game+ with SG

I'd also want to do something like a NG "intended route" but I'm not sure if that would actually qualify as a category.

In_Pieces

2009-09-19 12:20:52 pm

...?

Quote from Aftermath:

Also, would anyone disagree with this layout of categories?

New Game without SG (cutall SBs)
New Game with SG (no OoB and IB distinction)

New Game+ without SG
New Game+ with SG

I'd also want to do something like a NG "intended route" but I'm not sure if that would actually qualify as a category.

I think instead of having it categorized directly as having succubus glitch or not, it should be major skips and no major skips. But then again, there are some other things that might qualify as a major skip, so its debatable.

I thinks a no major skips run would be as close to an "intended route", like you said, as possible.
My idea of categories would be:

New game low%(no distinction between a MS and a NMS, because you would need major skips to get the lowest possible percent)
New game any% NMS
New game any% with MS
New game 100%(probably never going to happen, i don;t even know what would qualify as 100%)
New game+ any% NMS(kind of a stupid category imo, but nevertheless...)
New game+ any% with MS

There would be no MG+ low% or 100%, because a NG+ file should already be maxed out.
That's just my two cents on the matter. I loved watching your boss rush, and i wish you the best of luck in your run, aftermath.

[quote="Aftermath"]
Also, would anyone disagree with this layout of categories?

New Game without SG (cutall SBs)
New Game with SG (no OoB and IB distinction)

New Game+ without SG
New Game+ with SG

I'd also want to do something like a NG "intended route" but I'm not sure if that would actually qualify as a category.
[/quote]

I think instead of having it categorized directly as having succubus glitch or not, it should be major skips and no major skips. But then again, there are some other things that might qualify as a major skip, so its debatable.

I thinks a no major skips run would be as close to an "intended route", like you said, as possible.
My idea of categories would be:

New game low%(no distinction between a MS and a NMS, because you would need major skips to get the lowest possible percent)
New game any% NMS
New game any% with MS
New game 100%(probably never going to happen, i don;t even know what would qualify as 100%)
New game+ any% NMS(kind of a stupid category imo, but nevertheless...)
New game+ any% with MS

There would be no MG+ low% or 100%, because a NG+ file should already be maxed out.
That's just my two cents on the matter. I loved watching your boss rush, and i wish you the best of luck in your run, aftermath.

Satoryu

2009-09-19 03:07:32 pm

Visually Appealing

I'd rather define them by whether they use OoB or not. As the recent TAS shows, you don't need Succubus to get out of bounds, which creates a loophole in the SG/nonSG category.

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2009-09-19 04:50:22 pm

2009-09-19 04:33:49 pm

Quits halfway

I'll first state that as long as there's a category for a run that uses the cutall SB, but no-SG, then I don't care too much about the other ones, it's just that's obviously my favorite route.

I don't really think there's any loophole, and IB/OoB has more gray areas as well. I would be in favor of separating it just by whether SG is used or not, and the TAS zip as another category, such as "Dmitrii Zip," if it turns out to be humanly possible.

My reasoning is that if you're already using the SG, there's not a huge reason why you shouldn't use OoB with it. Furthermore, at what point do you say that it is OoB even? As this demonstrates, you can warp through pretty large sections without ever going OoB (according to your map), even though they aren't adjacent. Because of these sort of complications, I really think anything using the SG should be assumed to be OoB.

Another reason is just that the IB SG and no-SG run have identical paths for 30 minutes. My idea behind categories is just that they should show off as many ways to complete the game quickly, with reasonable rules on the non-super-amazing-glitch ones. So I'd think that the IB SG run, if separated, would be the most boring to watch. You do the game exactly as the no-SG run, then you skip the same stuff as the OoB SG run, but don't get the souls to make the Menace fight faster. So the end of the run not only is anti-climactic (since you skip the most interesting bosses) but it doesn't have any "wtf" moments over the OoB route.

And yeah, I should have posted this in the last post.

Re-reading this, it seems that I'm being pretty selfish/childish in wanting to decide this my way, but the IB/OoB distinction just doesn't make sense given the possible IB loopholes.

Also, to elaborate on the TAS zip, the route is so wildly different from the others that it really would warrant a separate category. And while there might be other possible places to cutscene zip, which would mess with an SG run, I seriously doubt that it couldn't just be classified as a different, also game-breaking glitch.

In_pieces - Your idea is pretty agreeable, but would it just be that the Cutall SB would still qualify as a major skip? That and %s are hard to work out in this game, unless for 100% it's dozens of segments of save, get a soul, save. NMS and MS would probably be better category labels than SG/noSG though.

Edit: I thought I might point out that I'm not against running any of the routes, it's just based on what my ideas are for why categories should be separated. And assuming that there's no official decision on this, I'll probably just end up recording one of each possible type of run and let the verifiers or mike decide if it deserves another category when it shows up in their inbox.

I'll first state that as long as there's a category for a run that uses the cutall SB, but no-SG, then I don't care too much about the other ones, it's just that's obviously my favorite route.

I don't really think there's any loophole, and IB/OoB has more gray areas as well. I would be in favor of separating it just by whether SG is used or not, and the TAS zip as another category, such as "Dmitrii Zip," if it turns out to be humanly possible.

My reasoning is that if you're already using the SG, there's not a huge reason why you shouldn't use OoB with it. Furthermore, at what point do you say that it is OoB even? [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kOdrgM1yh8]As this demonstrates[/url], you can warp through pretty large sections without ever going OoB (according to your map), even though they aren't adjacent. Because of these sort of complications, I really think anything using the SG should be assumed to be OoB.

Another reason is just that the IB SG and no-SG run have identical paths for 30 minutes. My idea behind categories is just that they should show off as many ways to complete the game quickly, with reasonable rules on the non-super-amazing-glitch ones. So I'd think that the IB SG run, if separated, would be the most boring to watch. You do the game exactly as the no-SG run, then you skip the same stuff as the OoB SG run, but don't get the souls to make the Menace fight faster. So the end of the run not only is anti-climactic (since you skip the most interesting bosses) but it doesn't have any "wtf" moments over the OoB route.

And yeah, I should have posted this in the last post.

Re-reading this, it seems that I'm being pretty selfish/childish in wanting to decide this my way, but the IB/OoB distinction just doesn't make sense given the possible IB loopholes.

Also, to elaborate on the TAS zip, the route is so wildly different from the others that it really would warrant a separate category. And while there might be other possible places to cutscene zip, which would mess with an SG run, I seriously doubt that it couldn't just be classified as a different, also game-breaking glitch.

In_pieces - Your idea is pretty agreeable, but would it just be that the Cutall SB would still qualify as a major skip? That and %s are hard to work out in this game, unless for 100% it's dozens of segments of save, get a soul, save. NMS and MS would probably be better category labels than SG/noSG though.

Edit: I thought I might point out that I'm not against running any of the routes, it's just based on what my ideas are for why categories should be separated. And assuming that there's no official decision on this, I'll probably just end up recording one of each possible type of run and let the verifiers or mike decide if it deserves another category when it shows up in their inbox.

KennyMan666

2009-09-19 05:28:52 pm

Precursor

I've been asked to put in my proverbial $0.02.

Basically?

Since it's apparently possible to go out of bounds even without the Succubus glitch (read the topic, I have not. Speak like Yoda, I apparently do), the categories should rather be without major glitches and with major glitches. Anything putting you out of the game's intended boundaries should count as a major glitch, while things such as utilizing the backstab of the Cutall to gain access to an area early is just a normal secquence break as seen in many no-glitching-to-hell runs. Using the Succubus glitch at all should of course also count as major glitch. Really, not using it to its full potential if you go through the trouble to activate it would just be silly.