Capturing WiiU gamepad screen?

Edit history:

Slowking: 2012-11-19 07:27:25 pm

2012-11-19 07:18:45 pm

Basically the WiiU streams the the video to the gamepad via wireless-n. Just like Miracast, but probably not with standard specs.
Theoretically that should be captureable with a PC that has a wireless-n adapter. Even if it is encrypted, the Gamepad and the WiiU would have to share keys during sync, so that shouldn't be an unsolvable problem. Just capture the keys and use them.

Does anybody here have experience with something like this? Is anybody working on it already?
It would be cool if speedruns of WiiU games could show both screens eventually. Smiley

Thread title:

DJGrenola

2012-11-19 08:31:36 pm

guffaw

Quote from Slowking:

Even if it is encrypted, the Gamepad and the WiiU would have to share keys during sync

not necessarily. each could have its own public/private key pair -- if each one encrypts using the other's public key and decrypts using its own private key, no key exchange would be needed.

Omnigamer

2012-11-19 11:33:53 pm

All the things

I doubt the feed is encrypted given how instantly the image is available on the controller. Public-key crypto generally takes a long time (relatively, anyway), especially for video. Even most types of symmetric crypto would introduce some kind of noticeable lag on the screen.

I have not looked into the actual specs for the controller, but it may require more than just a wireless receiver to pick up the signal.

DJS

2012-11-20 01:34:49 am

torch slug since 2006

i wonder if runs on the wii u will require the gamepad video. i hope not

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2012-11-20 01:45:57 am

2012-11-20 01:44:34 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from DJS:

i wonder if runs on the wii u will require the gamepad video. i hope not

I think it's gonna depend on the game. I imagine that most games capturing the gamepad screen won't be necessary as it's likely a supplement thing, much like the Xbox 360 thing in connecting w/ smart phones and tablets.

We're probably going to wait if any games fully divide between the screens, kind of like Zelda: Four Swords Adventure on the Gamecube. If it does, then it would likely be necessary.

Greenalink @ work

2012-11-20 06:12:09 am

Quote:

i wonder if runs on the wii u will require the gamepad video. i hope not

Don't make me start a Wii U gamepad capture device thread.

If the gamepad on Wii U functions similar to Tingle Tuner abuse on The Wind Waker, then the Gamepad isn't required to be recorded. I can think of New Super Mario Brothers U with the assist blocks as an example on Wii U.

It will be a problem if the Gamepad's screen has a unique perspective similar to GCN's Four Sword Adventures via GBA systems.
There are a few Nintendo Land game modes that takes advantage, including the Hide and Seek Mario game.
But remember this, Wii U only supports up to 2 Gamepads or else the framerate becomes less stable.

Omnigamer

2012-11-20 08:10:25 am

All the things

Quote from Greenalink @ work:

But remember this, Wii U only supports up to 2 Gamepads or else the framerate becomes less stable.

My suspicion for the 2 gamepad limitation in processing-side (since each screen must be rendered/tracked separately), rather than a bandwidth bottleneck. Having extra devices grab on to the wireless stream should not affect the actual gameplay at all. If you instead want to grab it after it reaches the device, that would be more difficult.

Slowking

Edit history:

Slowking: 2012-11-21 04:31:52 am

2012-11-21 04:30:57 am

Quote from DJGrenola:

not necessarily. each could have its own public/private key pair -- if each one encrypts using the other's public key and decrypts using its own private key, no key exchange would be needed.

But then every gamepad could decrypt every consoles stream. At that point why use encryption at all?
So I'm fairly certain that either symetric keys are exchanged (asymetric would probably create too much lag) or it's unencrypted.

Quote from Omnigamer:

I have not looked into the actual specs for the controller, but it may require more than just a wireless receiver to pick up the signal.

The WiiU uses a "Broadcom BCM43362KUB6 802.11n Wireless Module" to send out the signal. (Source) So since that is standard wireless-n it shouldn't be a problem to pick it up with a wireless-n reciever.

DJGrenola

Edit history:

DJGrenola: 2012-11-21 04:50:17 pm

2012-11-21 04:50:06 pm

guffaw

Quote from Slowking:

But then every gamepad could decrypt every consoles stream. At that point why use encryption at all?

Because corporations typically hate you tampering with things you bought from them.

Public key crypto is never used to encrypt data streams directly anyway, it's used to conceal the initial exchange of a shared key. The rest of the session then proceeds using a fast symmetric cipher instead, so in performance terms there isn't actually any difference.

I would imagine someone on the internet already has a definitive answer to this by now.

blizzz

2012-11-30 12:39:39 pm

The video is streamed via 802.11n on one of the 4 channels in 5.150 to 5.250 MHz using Miracast and WEP encryption. I haven't done any wireless packet sniffing for some time now, but that shouldn't be too hard to capture. I don't know if there's any encryption in the stream, but even if, the key should be easy to compute from the four signs you had to input when connecting and maybe the MAC address.

Sir VG

2012-11-30 12:55:30 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

I found some info on the internals, including pictures. Mainly for people like loopy.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+Wii+U+Teardown/11796/2

Slowking

2012-12-01 11:14:05 pm

Quote from blizzz:

The video is streamed via 802.11n on one of the 4 channels in 5.150 to 5.250 MHz using Miracast and WEP encryption. I haven't done any wireless packet sniffing for some time now, but that shouldn't be too hard to capture. I don't know if there's any encryption in the stream, but even if, the key should be easy to compute from the four signs you had to input when connecting and maybe the MAC address.

WEP? Really? *lol*
Well good for us. Considering how much data is streamed there should be enough packets to decrypt it in under 5 minutes.
The rest might still be kind of tough, though. Are you going to work on that, blizz? You seem to know what you are doing. Smiley

blizzz

2012-12-02 04:14:35 am

While it would be an interesting project I don't have the time for it. I should rather concentrate on my master thesis. But I'm sure that someone else will do it eventually, and if not I might come back to it in the future.

blizzz

2013-05-15 11:21:57 am

One of the Dolphin devs has worked out the protocol:

https://twitter.com/delroth_/status/332179135411654656
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-secrets-of-the-wii-u-gamepad

Mystery

2013-05-16 09:52:35 am

And Nintendo wants people to actually browse the interwebs on that thing? No way. No how. I am amazed on how lack Nintendo is in the area of security of wireless. I am shocked and disgusted at the same time.
You won't catch me actually doing anything important other than actually playing games on that thing, if I ever get one.

jfryk

Edit history:

jfryk: 2013-05-16 11:04:19 am

2013-05-16 11:03:33 am

The short range of the gamepad and the fact that you need to manually sync the device should negate any serious security concerns.

Mystery

Edit history:

Mystery: 2013-05-16 11:19:03 am

2013-05-16 11:11:35 am

In good signal conditions, the signal can reach about 15 meters (yes, that means outside your home!).
In worst case scenario, you might get half that. But still, that's a good 7-8 meters.
Hello sniffing!

Not to mention that WPS is extremely broken. It requires an 8 digit pin, which is really 7 digits and a checksum, and each digit can take 7 values and is validated in two parts: one for the first part, and one for the second part, which means that the number of combinations for brute forcing is 7^4 + 7^3 = 2744. Yeah, I can brute force that in a couple of seconds. Reaaaaaaaaaaally safe, that.

jfryk

2013-05-16 11:30:42 am

But at the moment they're only reading the data that's being transmitted, right? I didn't see anything about sending requests or commands to the gamepad or WiiU. And it seems it's only transmitting encoded video and controller inputs. Worst case scenario I can see is someone reading your feed and getting lucky enough to see you input your credit card info or watching you browse the internet.

Why would they waste their time doing that when they could be hacking Wi-Fi which is can give them access to your data, not just a video feed. Not to mention Wi-Fi signals are way more prolific than WiiU gamepad signals. I just feel like you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Mystery

Edit history:

Mystery: 2013-05-16 11:36:26 am

2013-05-16 11:35:31 am

It's better to be safe than sorry, and when it comes to security, it's better to be paranoid than not.
You cannot predict hackers. Sure, it's more likely they'll be sniffing your wireless, but that's way more secure than your gamepad. So who is to say they won't target the gamepad which is so insecure? You know that the weakest link in the armour is the only that is usually attacked.
I mean, today with security and all, where WPA2 is standard, Nintendo completely ignores security. I can understand it, IF not for the fact that it can so much more than gaming. But this is ridiculous...

DJGrenola

Edit history:

DJGrenola: 2013-12-29 01:34:54 pm

2013-12-29 01:31:54 pm

guffaw

did anyone else see the presentation on this from the CCC this year? looks like it's all very much been figured out.

26pt2

2013-12-29 03:55:49 pm

Zelda

Just peeked at this topic because it caught my interest.

On a note for The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures, I am planning on doing a co-op speedrun relatively soon after AGDQ 2014. Co-op was the main reason I picked up running Zelda FSA. A video of my single player run using a Gamecube with the Gameboy Player Attachment as the "GBA screen" can be seen here (http://www.twitch.tv/26pt2/c/3329972). Unfortunately, the setup for co-op is extremely hectic and I doubt I will dish out more money for DVD recorders to capture the 3 consoles. However, I have done a tech support video quality check for single player (using the Gamecube controller) and will do attempts of both any% & Individual Level runs.

Anyways, back on the topic of the Wii U gamepad, which games so far (or in the near future) feature content on the gamepad that is radically different from the main TV screen?

DJGrenola

2013-12-29 07:53:17 pm

guffaw

for the curious

http://koeln.ftp.media.ccc.de/congress/30C3/webm/30c3-5322-en-Reverse_engineering_the_Wii_U_Gamepad_webm.webm

Anwonu

2013-12-29 09:09:19 pm

CHOKES

YouTube (above link was taking a while to open for me)