Capture Device Compendium (Tell me about your capture device!)

2014-03-20 08:01:43 am

A Serious Noob

Quote from NME:

Kind of a big deal, no?

Also, does that mean you are playing on a TV? That's not a workable set up for me, so if we're talking a delay to the PC, then this sounds like a no-go for me.

Splits is something i can work without at least for me. You can still use it for your runs through. You just can't broadcast it on stream because it will be thrown off.

I am playing it from my tv of course and in real time. You will have to set up a delay though on your audio/commentary and video camera (if your doing the whole face cam thing) in the settings of your broadcaster that you use (I use xsplit but this should work in OBS as well). My delay is setup at around 2000/ms.

Vid3odrome

Edit history:

Vid3odrome: 2014-03-20 08:20:33 am

2014-03-20 08:19:33 am

twitch.tv/vid3odrome

Quote from DeMoNFLiP84:

Quote from NME:

Kind of a big deal, no?

Also, does that mean you are playing on a TV? That's not a workable set up for me, so if we're talking a delay to the PC, then this sounds like a no-go for me.

Splits is something i can work without at least for me. You can still use it for your runs through. You just can't broadcast it on stream because it will be thrown off.

I am playing it from my tv of course and in real time. You will have to set up a delay though on your audio/commentary and video camera (if your doing the whole face cam thing) in the settings of your broadcaster that you use (I use xsplit but this should work in OBS as well). My delay is setup at around 2000/ms.

is this what I'm dealing with here:
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/wsplit__video_display_not_in_sync.html

I set wsplit to start with a 1.5 second delay that looks *about* right, but that's not really too satisfying and if I compete with someone in a game, i'm sure it'd be an issue. My mic/sound delay is pretty annoying too. It should be somewhere between 1500-2000 but none of it really looks right, at least going by increments of 100. I plan to do increments of 50 but it's a serious pain--local recording will look fine, but streaming will be off. So I have to stop and start my stream a million times just to test it.

But the Elgato has given me less problems than the Hauppauge.

[quote="DeMoNFLiP84"][quote="NME"]Kind of a big deal, no?

Also, does that mean you are playing on a TV? That's not a workable set up for me, so if we're talking a delay to the PC, then this sounds like a no-go for me.[/quote]
Splits is something i can work without at least for me. You can still use it for your runs through. You just can't broadcast it on stream because it will be thrown off.

I am playing it from my tv of course and in real time. You will have to set up a delay though on your audio/commentary and video camera (if your doing the whole face cam thing) in the settings of your broadcaster that you use (I use xsplit but this should work in OBS as well). My delay is setup at around 2000/ms. [/quote]

is this what I'm dealing with here: 
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/wsplit__video_display_not_in_sync.html

I set wsplit to start with a 1.5 second delay that looks *about* right, but that's not really too satisfying and if I compete with someone in a game, i'm sure it'd be an issue.  My mic/sound delay is pretty annoying too.  It should be somewhere between 1500-2000 but none of it really looks right, at least going by increments of 100.  I plan to do increments of 50 but it's a serious pain--local recording will look fine, but streaming will be off.  So I have to stop and start my stream a million times just to test it.

But the Elgato has given me less problems than the Hauppauge.

NME

2014-03-20 08:27:46 am

I appreciate the input, DF and Vid3odrome. Nothing's easy, huh?

At the risk of futher crapping up this thread, I'm just going to ask: Is there one card that I should absolutely get (not necessarily elgato)?

I want to stream my NES first and foremost. I don't want to use a TV as my video source while playing. I do want to use Llanfair on my stream.

Is this even feasible? Ideally I'd like a device with which I can capture newer consoles as well, but it's not critical at this time. Should I just buy an EZcap and shut up? I love that this thread provides lots of options and reviews, but it doesn't seem like anyone has agreed on which device is "the best."

Slyse

2014-03-20 08:30:01 am

Now with 23% more reset!

Well EZcap can do older gen and newer gen so if you're not that worried about image quality you should definitely get an EZcap or something similar. Won't even cost you all that much!

DeMoNFLiP84

Edit history:

DeMoNFLiP84: 2014-03-20 08:37:03 am

2014-03-20 08:34:44 am

A Serious Noob

Dazzlecap and EZcap as Slyse mentioned above ^

Both are inexpensive and suitable for older consoles.

I own both capture cards and I like to use the Dazzlecap for recording and streaming (at least before elgato)

Vid3odrome

Edit history:

Vid3odrome: 2014-03-20 08:43:36 am

2014-03-20 08:43:19 am

twitch.tv/vid3odrome

I ordered this thing a while back since it can do 240p over component:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300928530551?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

it's cheap and sketchy, but maybe it'll do better than the Elgato lol

NME

2014-03-20 08:54:22 am

Any problem with using the capture feed as my main video source while playing? What about sync issues, specifically with Llanfair?

I imagine everyone else has a TV right near their PC, but that's a no go for me, unfortunately. Not sure if this is an unrealistic set up or if it is more common than I believe.

Vid3o, I trust you'll provide a review of your sketchy capture unit at some point? Smiley

Seems alright on its face.

Vid3odrome

2014-03-20 09:19:18 am

twitch.tv/vid3odrome

Quote from NME:

Any problem with using the capture feed as my main video source while playing? What about sync issues, specifically with Llanfair?

I imagine everyone else has a TV right near their PC, but that's a no go for me, unfortunately. Not sure if this is an unrealistic set up or if it is more common than I believe.

Vid3o, I trust you'll provide a review of your sketchy capture unit at some point? Smiley

Seems alright on its face.

certainly, i'll try to review it the best i can.

Vid3odrome

2014-03-22 02:43:12 pm

twitch.tv/vid3odrome

i've ordered a Avermedia C027 to hopefully replace the Elgato permanently.

*prays to RNGesus* please let this be the end of my streaming device woes

DeMoNFLiP84

2014-03-22 05:20:37 pm

A Serious Noob

Quote from Vid3odrome:

i've ordered a Avermedia C027 to hopefully replace the Elgato permanently.

*prays to RNGesus* please let this be the end of my streaming device woes

I'm curious to know what exactly kind of games you're running?

Vid3odrome

2014-03-22 08:24:01 pm

twitch.tv/vid3odrome

Quote from DeMoNFLiP84:

Quote from Vid3odrome:

i've ordered a Avermedia C027 to hopefully replace the Elgato permanently.

*prays to RNGesus* please let this be the end of my streaming device woes

I'm curious to know what exactly kind of games you're running?

Just started about a month or two ago, but I've put most of my time into Tobal No.1 so far, a ps1 game, which I'm playing on PS2 over component. I've put in some preliminary work into a ps1 import called Lucifer Ring, which I play on PS1, and NES Strider. So that's PS2 on component, NES A/V, and PS1 composite...but i'm also looking into Genesis and original Xbox (component), so I need something to work with all those. and working with PS3 over component is good too.

also have equipment for RGB-to-Component for my PS1 and Genesis, not even sure if the avermedia will handle that, but it's not really a priority atm.

Vid3odrome

Edit history:

Vid3odrome: 2014-03-30 04:19:07 pm

2014-03-30 04:18:21 pm

twitch.tv/vid3odrome

aaaaand the C027 is giving me sound lag issues:
(starting around 3 min):
http://www.twitch.tv/vid3odrome/b/515054863

PS2 via component. that happens through xsplit and OBS. Messed with the scant amount of audio options they give you to toy with and came up with nothing. (running a i5-2500k at 4.2ghz, gtx570, 8gb ram, so i've got more than enough power to handle this stuff.)

welp, there goes the 3 months i had relatively free to stream. guess i'll be returning this card too and hoping there's a decent card for my needs whenever I get back into it.

Omnigamer

2014-03-30 05:01:30 pm

All the things

Is your issue recording or simply for stream-side setup? If it's stable lag, that's very easy to deal with in post-processing. If you want it to be on time for your stream, then make sure you have correct input setup (card audio in vs line-in). It's not something you should need to dispose of your capture device for.

Vid3odrome

2014-03-30 07:40:30 pm

twitch.tv/vid3odrome

I agree, it feels like something that shouldn't require getting rid of a card, but I've messed with just about everything I can and it still happens. It seems to be only when streaming and I do have the correct set up in the crossbar. The audio slowly desyncs throughout the cast. When I refresh the screen, it goes back to being synced, then slowly desyncs again. I tried different resolutions, different encoding, and dropping my bitrate, same results.

Soliduz Znake

Edit history:

Soliduz Znake: 2014-04-02 10:41:51 am

2014-04-02 09:11:22 am

I haven't had much experience with game capture devices/software which are 3 I used; FRAPS, Roxio & Avermedia.

Device make and model: Roxio game capture standard
Inputs: component
Type: USB device
Issues: freezes on occasions, sometimes recordings end up corrupted file, setting up can frustrating and it went awful with recording quality before breaking after many times recording.
Comments: it comes in a cheap price compared to other higher quality devices. It requires good performing PC/Laptop otherwise you might end up having issues such freezing, crashing, corrupt video file or desyncing videos. At first it was good with recordings games on my PS3 but wasn't good with older games like PS1 games.

Device make and model: Avermedia game capture HD C281
Inputs: component
Type: internal hard drive or external hard drive
Issues: on rare occasions it freezes, the device as well the hard drive heat sup in about 30 - 45 mins of recording.
Comments: I find the Avermedia device very convenient when I want to record without worrying much about setting up. The technical issues were remedied with downloading patches via USB storage device. Overall I found it very reliable when recording any games old or new.

I haven't had much experience with game capture devices/software which are 3 I used; FRAPS, Roxio & Avermedia.

[u]Device make and model[/u]: Roxio game capture standard
[u]Inputs[/u]: component
[u]Type[/u]: USB device
[u]Issues[/u]: freezes on occasions, sometimes recordings end up corrupted file, setting up can frustrating and it went awful with recording quality before breaking after many times recording. 
[u]Comments[/u]: it comes in a cheap price compared to other higher quality devices. It requires good performing PC/Laptop otherwise you might end up having issues such freezing, crashing, corrupt video file or desyncing videos. At first it was good with recordings games on my PS3 but wasn't good with older games like PS1 games.

[u]Device make and model[/u]: Avermedia game capture HD C281
[u]Inputs[/u]: component
[u]Type[/u]: internal hard drive or external hard drive
[u]Issues[/u]: on rare occasions it freezes, the device as well the hard drive heat sup in about 30 - 45 mins of recording.
[u]Comments[/u]: I find the Avermedia device very convenient when I want to record without worrying much about setting up. The technical issues were remedied with downloading patches via USB storage device. Overall I found it very reliable when recording any games old or new.

presjpolk

2014-04-02 09:48:42 am

HELLO!

Your C281 does composite? Or did you mean component?

Soliduz Znake

Edit history:

Soliduz Znake: 2014-04-02 10:42:35 am

2014-04-02 10:41:03 am

sorry I meant component, my bad. I usually mix up the words component an composite Dx

presjpolk

2014-04-02 10:43:47 pm

HELLO!

Another update on the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle line:

Its HDMI compatibility is really weak. I just got a DVDO iScan VP20, and the Intensity Shuttle completely refuses to deal with its output, even when I make sure to set the resolution, framerate, colorspace, everything exactly so.

The Blackmagic forums also have someone else with the same issue with a VP30, and another person with HDMI out from a Mac.

So for HDMI capture I have to downgrade the Intensity to a non-recommend. It's still good for 480p and up Component though.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2014-04-13 03:00:17 pm

2014-04-13 02:59:59 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Device make and model: AVerMedia C027/H727 Version. E (indicated on the back of the PCB)
Inputs: Composite, S-Video, Component, HDMI
Type: Internal capture card
Price: About £70.
Compatibility: No resolution restrictions besides the usual.
240p-capable: Yes
Availibility: Worldwide.
Issues:

It took me a good week to finally figure what AVerMedia had done. More on the subject here: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/the_current_availability_of_avermedia_cards_aka_more_than_one_c027_version.html

Basically, a Version. E model was released in mid 2013 to replace the older "capacitor" model of 2009-2012. Composite, S-Video and HDMI are all decent. What is actually quite surprising is that the composite is pretty much identical to the more expensive C727 model.

I've used a lot of capture cards over the years but testing this really shocked me. If you are using Component then avoid this at all costs. It's the darkest (and worst) component capture I have ever seen. Here's some "acceptable" screenshots of the game called Clock Tower on Wii VC at 480p (everything is default on capture pins).

Blackmagic Shuttle: http://i.imgur.com/GMJWkcE.png
Micomsoft: http://i.imgur.com/vaYLJuY.png

Now here is what AVerMedia have on the Version. E card at default settings: http://i.imgur.com/eVXxGkZ.png
Here is the older H727 (although dark I would still just call it acceptable): http://i.imgur.com/CVHb9lX.png

You may just think that adjusting the brightness in the capture pin will sort it and you would be right but this just highlights more weird issues like a line of green around the right side of Jennifer's hair and on the left side of the box on the new H727. No other component capture card has this (even the older H727 doesn't have it): http://i.imgur.com/2sp6CJ0.png

Recommend: Depends if you need Component capture.

Device make and model: AVerMedia C027/H727 Version. E (indicated on the back of the PCB)
Inputs: Composite, S-Video, Component, HDMI
Type: Internal capture card
Price: About £70.
Compatibility: No resolution restrictions besides the usual.
240p-capable: Yes
Availibility: Worldwide.
Issues:

It took me a good week to finally figure what AVerMedia had done. More on the subject here: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/the_current_availability_of_avermedia_cards_aka_more_than_one_c027_version.html

Basically, a Version. E model was released in mid 2013 to replace the older "capacitor" model of 2009-2012. Composite, S-Video and HDMI are all decent. What is actually quite surprising is that the composite is pretty much identical to the more expensive C727 model.

I've used a lot of capture cards over the years but testing this really shocked me. If you are using Component then avoid this at all costs. It's the darkest (and worst) component capture I have ever seen. Here's some "acceptable" screenshots of the game called Clock Tower on Wii VC at 480p (everything is default on capture pins).

Blackmagic Shuttle: http://i.imgur.com/GMJWkcE.png
Micomsoft: http://i.imgur.com/vaYLJuY.png

Now here is what AVerMedia have on the Version. E card at default settings: http://i.imgur.com/eVXxGkZ.png
Here is the older H727 (although dark I would still just call it acceptable): http://i.imgur.com/CVHb9lX.png

You may just think that adjusting the brightness in the capture pin will sort it and you would be right but this just highlights more weird issues like a line of green around the right side of Jennifer's hair and on the left side of the box on the new H727. No other component capture card has this (even the older H727 doesn't have it): http://i.imgur.com/2sp6CJ0.png

Recommend: Depends if you need Component capture.

TheThrillness

2014-04-17 08:04:11 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

So things just got VERY interesting. All credit for the find goes to me! Cheesy

I was sick and tired of Micomsoft not releasing a new driver so I decided to do some hunting at StarTech. I checked the driver date and it was from 2014. You are in for a surprise: http://i.imgur.com/gjj6FOF.png

So what's new?

1. They worked with the SC-512 and Composite/S-Video worked! Anyone with the PEXHDCAP might want to try it again.
2. RGB support in Amarec at both 24 and 32 bit.

YUY2 screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/VYf6yaq.jpg
RGB 32 screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/Rl9Iv78.jpg

Both of those captured via Lagarith in the respective modes. Notice that RGB is able to more properly capture the reds on the tree leaves.

3. Finally we can toggle between 0-255 and 16-235 (Do not ever tick Enhance... it looks just plain awful). I don't know much about this but I have my PS3 set to Limited. When I ran the game I noticed that having it set to 16-235 in the driver that the loading screens were more grey than anything. Setting it to 0-255 produced the proper black. So do all PS3 games run at 0-255 then? It's just I never noticed this problem until the driver update. Even that doesn't make sense. Since all budget HDMI capture cards are 16-235... why did I never notice this before?... I'll just stop before I confuse myself.
4. NV12 and YV12 selectable in Amarec (although why would you want this when Lagarith/x264vfw can do it)
5. Some new ticky boxes like "SOG" which I have no idea about.
6. Some other little stuff but I doubt it has any use.

So things just got VERY interesting. All credit for the find goes to me! :D

I was sick and tired of Micomsoft not releasing a new driver so I decided to do some hunting at StarTech. I checked the driver date and it was from 2014. You are in for a surprise: http://i.imgur.com/gjj6FOF.png

So what's new?

1. They worked with the SC-512 and Composite/S-Video worked! Anyone with the PEXHDCAP might want to try it again.
2. RGB support in Amarec at both 24 and 32 bit.

YUY2 screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/VYf6yaq.jpg
RGB 32 screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/Rl9Iv78.jpg

Both of those captured via Lagarith in the respective modes. Notice that RGB is able to more properly capture the reds on the tree leaves.

3. Finally we can toggle between 0-255 and 16-235 (Do not ever tick Enhance... it looks just plain awful). I don't know much about this but I have my PS3 set to Limited. When I ran the game I noticed that having it set to 16-235 in the driver that the loading screens were more grey than anything. Setting it to 0-255 produced the proper black. So do all PS3 games run at 0-255 then? It's just I never noticed this problem until the driver update. Even that doesn't make sense. Since all budget HDMI capture cards are 16-235... why did I never notice this before?... I'll just stop before I confuse myself.
4. NV12 and YV12 selectable in Amarec (although why would you want this when Lagarith/x264vfw can do it)
5. Some new ticky boxes like "SOG" which I have no idea about.
6. Some other little stuff but I doubt it has any use.

Edenal

2014-04-19 06:27:27 am

Hockey enthusiast

Tested the new drivers with PEXHDCAP. Composite is still no dice.

Still same old B/W as with the SC-512 drivers.

http://imgur.com/JKi5wGq,Z7oNwiT
http://imgur.com/JKi5wGq,Z7oNwiT#1

The way I was able to capture those images were with the breakout cable bundled with the card. Composite feed into the green plug.

ahuynh

Edit history:

ahuynh: 2014-04-19 11:26:07 am

ahuynh: 2014-04-19 10:43:16 am

ahuynh: 2014-04-19 10:42:34 am

2014-04-19 10:36:38 am

Quote from TheThrillness:

So do all PS3 games run at 0-255 then?

No, the PS3 has a setting for limited vs full range. Limited range is better for TV and capturing, since capturing usually means TV capture. Full range is usually for monitors. However, all of this is relative. Certain TVs and monitors are smart enough to detect when a source uses full range or limited range. There's no guideline for this, though. I have a $350 monitor that I work on and also play my PS3 on because it can, but it only outputs full range, meaning that the colors display properly when it's fed a full range source. All of this stuff drives me crazy, for example, when I go to my friends' house and I see their TV is poorly color calibrated and then I offer to go fix it. Of course, no one but me notices this.

Edit: Needed to read more carefully. However, there is an issue. A 0-255 source being fed into something that thinks it is 16-235 will have lost details in the shadows and highlights. In the opposite situation, you don't get pure black and white, just dark grey and light grey.

[quote="TheThrillness"]So do all PS3 games run at 0-255 then?[/quote]

No, the PS3 has a setting for limited vs full range. Limited range is better for TV and capturing, since capturing usually means TV capture. Full range is usually for monitors. However, all of this is relative. Certain TVs and monitors are smart enough to detect when a source uses full range or limited range. There's no guideline for this, though. I have a $350 monitor that I work on and also play my PS3 on because it can, but it only outputs full range, meaning that the colors display properly when it's fed a full range source. All of this stuff drives me crazy, for example, when I go to my friends' house and I see their TV is poorly color calibrated and then I offer to go fix it. Of course, no one but me notices this.

Edit: Needed to read more carefully. However, there is an issue. A 0-255 source being fed into something that thinks it is 16-235 will have lost details in the shadows and highlights. In the opposite situation, you don't get pure black and white, just dark grey and light grey.

TheThrillness

2014-04-19 11:13:23 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Edenal, that's very interesting. Months ago someone at the shmups forum says that even with the proper composite and s-video adapter they could only ever get audio. That looks like an improvement. Right now I just checked with my SC-512 and even I get B&W if I connect composite to the green plug. To make 100% sure you would need to get the Elgato retro adapter. If nobody has it then I'll get back out my PEXHDCAP and connect it in the next few days and post back.

blizzz

2014-04-19 01:14:59 pm

According to NightSprinter on the Shmups forum it still doesn't work.

Quote from NightSprinter:

Sadly it still seems that no proper signal is detected for composite or s-video sources.

Edenal

2014-04-20 03:04:22 am

Hockey enthusiast

I failed to mention that I had the capture card set to component while getting these images.
When set to composite, nothing.

But this new "auto" feature in the latest Startech drivers gave the same results as setting it to component.