Bully: Scholarship Edition

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2017-07-26 09:06:18 am

2017-06-27 09:20:27 am

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/Bully.html

Bully: Scholarship Edition () (pc) [100 %] [Segmented]

Decision: Reject

Reason: The execution wasn't polished enough.

https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/verificationfiles/2068/

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Thread title:

SDAVerification

2017-06-27 09:20:27 am

Run Information

Bully: Scholarship Edition () (pc) [100 %] [Segmented]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/Bully-20170623/

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). If you wish to remain anonymous, you can also send a pm with your reply to 'sdaverification' (please state clearly in that case which run you have verified). This is not a contest where the majority wins - Each verification will be judged on its content.

ktwo

2017-06-27 09:28:26 am

This run is ~8 hours. If you intend to watch it and reply here, I recommend posting about it first and include a rough estimate for when you think you'll be done.

adeyblue

2017-07-07 01:41:29 pm

So I'm slowly going through this (using the youtube playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLU0UDNMyKu-MA3IWjZ18aF3NVveklzt2E, I'm on segment 17), but for anyone who doesn't really want to go through it all, the start of segment 16 is perhaps the most egregious example but still representative of the overall execution level -within 90 seconds of a 4:30 segment there are six failed attempts at taking two yearbook photos (and then two more after the mission).

What I mean is, the mistakes I've seen in the run don't cost a mountain of time (above costs ~16 seconds) but they don't look great. See also start of segment 9, the first meaningful act is geography class and looking at other youtube vids, the flags don't seem to be placed in a random order. Still, there are two mistakes during their placement. It only costs perhaps two seconds, but doesn't look too good.

I'm not dumping all over it, there's definitely merit to the run. It's 150 minutes faster than anything else, it does use glitches to save time, and there's been zero downtime so far making the planning look solid. You can't help but think though that if this was given 12 days of attempts instead of 6 (going from the timestamps on the second & last segment load screens) these early segments at least would be a lot more polished for it

What I mean is, the mistakes I've seen in the run don't cost a mountain of time (above costs ~16 seconds) but they don't look great. See also start of segment 9, the first meaningful act is geography class and looking at other youtube vids, the flags don't seem to be placed in a random order. Still, there are two mistakes during their placement. It only costs perhaps two seconds, but doesn't look too good.

I'm not dumping all over it, there's definitely merit to the run. It's 150 minutes faster than anything else, it does use glitches to save time, and there's been zero downtime so far making the planning look solid. You can't help but think though that if this was given 12 days of attempts instead of 6 (going from the timestamps on the second & last segment load screens) these early segments at least would be a lot more polished for it

ktwo

2017-07-11 02:59:30 pm

This is a game I'm a bit interested in and I have started a 100% playthrough of it. Regardless of the verification, I plan to watch this run when I've finished. It will take a few weeks before I'm done with it all though. So if no other replies are posted here, the thread will be open for still some time.

ktwo

2017-07-19 01:35:25 pm

It went a bit faster to play through the game and watch the run than I had expected, so here we go.

A/V:
The encoding isn't great, but I know that the quality can be improved for the final encoding. There are a lot of dropped frames throughout, but I guess it's still on the acceptable side. It's pretty noticeable in some sections though, so not ideal.

Gameplay:
First of all, I applaud the effort. It's obvious that a lot of thought has gone into the planning of this run. I have recently played through this game for a 100% completion and it was entertaining to see that being done as a speedrun right afterwards.

I understand that finding a route through all of the possibilities was no small task. I can't say that anything seemed odd in the grander scheme of things, but I'm not sure my one playthrough would be enough to assess the route in enough detail either. Anyways, the planning part looked strong. I disagree with a few minor things and there were at least three instances of where unnecessary tasks were performed accounting for around 8 min lost.

The execution is generally much less polished than the planning. There are bumps and movement mistakes that lose a second or two at fairly frequent intervals. Stuff like that obviously add up over the course of an 8 hour run. That being said, many of the mistakes have no impact on the final time, because a lot of the run is determined by tasks that are only available from a certain time. So playing faster would only have meant waiting longer. Since those parts can be done fairly "relaxed", it actually raises the expectancy bar for the parts with non-timed events though. The problem is that the gameplay isn't necessarily stronger for these parts. Overall, this run looks like a demonstration or validation of the route and as such it's a success and I'm sure will be a valuable baseline next time someone attempts a 100% run. However, this run is not a good fit for SDA. It requires a lot more polish than this.

After watching the run, I did browse the top single segment time (any%). By watching a few minutes here and there, it looked like some different route options were taken (obviously not counting ones that were due to the difference between any% and 100%). That means there might still be some work left to optimize the segments, which could possibly lead to replanning of the route if enough time can be saved to squeeze more content into some of the segments. I'm also inclined to say that the level of play was generally higher in the single segment run. It's clearly a problem if a run of 2h40 min looks cleaner than segments that are 10-15 min long.

So, to me this is a pretty clear

Reject (but wouldn't mind watching a more polished version in the future)

Here are my comments about the individual segments that I did along the way to keep track of things:

S1:
* Looks good except for an ugly execution mistake when jumping down from the principal's office.
* Has it been properly established that jumping up and down stairs is faster than running? It looks like Jimmy freezes for a short while before a jump.

Opinion: For such a short segment, the failed jump was pretty significant. I would have considered resetting at that point...

S2:
* Well played until 'English 1', which was sloppy.
* 'Defend Bucky' wasn't too convincing and the skateboarding back to the dorm wasn't too impressive either. However, I'm not sure how much the latter mattered since Jimmy was back in bed only very shortly after 7 pm.

Opinion: Fairly long segment. The amount of mistakes are in the higher end of what is acceptable, in my opinion. But since perfect execution would have meant waiting for going to sleep, I guess it's still passable.

S3:
* Why not trigger a fire alarm in the boy's dorm?
* It feels like 'Art 1' should be possible to do more efficiently in less distance covered. Just a feeling though.
* The execution in the first few missions is so-so, but in the end it doesn't matter since you anyways needed to wait for the clock to turn 1 pm.

Opinion: A segment that mostly depends on timed events. Despite a few mistakes here and there, I don't see them really losing any time since getting done earlier would just have meant more waiting.

S4: Overall, a short segment that looked ok (despite some minor flaws).

S5: The segment is mainly determined by arriving in time for 'Music 1' at 1 pm. There were a few mistakes that should normally have warranted a reset, but in this case didn't matter since they would just have prolonged the wait for class.

S6:
* I assume it's not possible to collect more fire crackers before this segment? It would have saved a bit of time with the pumpkin heads.
* Okayish until the fight with Russel, but I'm guessing a few more tries could have yielded an even cleaner playthrough.
* A few seconds lost by getting knocked down by Russel and him blocking towards the end. I'm not familiar enough with the speedstrats or how random this fight is, but something tells me that a few more attempts would have resulted in a faster fight and the runner seems to agree in the run comments.

Opinion: Not the strongest segment.

S7:
* Not much to say before 1 pm as you had to wait around for class to begin anyways.
* A missed photo in 'Photography 1' looked pretty bad.
(Edit: After watching the run, I tested and concluded that the in-game timer isn't running when looking at a photograph. A bad photo is obviously still some kind of time loss because you have to realign for the new photo etc.)

Overall: There were a few minor mistakes during 'Photography 1'. So it's definitely improveable, but I'm guessing it doesn't account for much time lost. Still looks a bit unpolished and not exactly unbeatable.

S8:
* Lots of small movement mistakes throughout. Each one didn't cost a lot of time, but it obviously adds up at some point...
* The go-karting was meh. A chunk of time was lost in the third race (I think) because of uncooperative opponents.

Overall: Long segment, but the level of "unpolishness" is becoming pretty noticeable. I'm not sure how much time a perfect playthrough would have saved, since you anywyas had to wait for 1 pm before getting busted.

S9:
* As mentioned in the comments some minor trouble getting into the 'Geography 1' class, but nothing major.
* Honestly, the 'Geography 1' class was absolutely rubbish. I admit that I had the same type of trouble when trying to place the flags for the US states (I'm European), but come on... When knowing the solution in advance, those mistakes, that early on, are inexcusable and should have led to a reset.
* 'Math 1' was in the lower end of okayish and even more so for what looked like a short and easy segment.

Overall: This should be redone. I don't see any particular difficulty in this segment and some unwarranted mistakes in what looks like a simple segment.

S10: This segment is basically about two go-kart races. Both look ok for the most part, but also contain some mistakes that are questionable for a segment of this type.

S11:
* Considering how much time was spent avoiding the prefects, it looks like it should have been possible to break into another locker and trigger another fire alarm before the afternoon class.
* 'English 1' didn't look too rehearsed. Isn't it just memorizing the best words and then do them in the same order each time? I have a hard time seeing how this should cause any trouble at all after enough practice.
* Nice, oob!
* A bit of trouble with go-kart #3, but mostly ok. However, I'm sure there are faster paths through the race. For example, at the turn near the power plant, you don't have to follow the road, but can cross over the pavement. There might be a similar shortcut later on as well (don't remember). I'm not sure this mattered though since Jimmy was back at the bed almost exactly at 7 pm.

Overall: The segment looked fairly straight-forward, so I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been better to reset after the mistakes early on. Also, question mark with regards to the routing here.

S12:
* Not a big deal, but did you actually have to park the go-kart so far away from the boxing club that you had to skateboard the last part?
* You don't have to fight the "random opponent" fight. Half a minute lost?
* The boxing seemed to go ok. The opponent's are a bit random as far as I can tell, so some blocking etc is to be expected.
* The rest of the segment was fairly time-insensitive since there is a bit of buffer to complete all the tasks and be back at the bed at 7 pm. So despite some mistakes, it had no impact on the overall time.

Overall: Not ok. Significant routing mistake in taking on one boxing fight more than necessary. (at least I can't see any reason to do this fight and there is none mentioned in the comments either for such an "unconventional" decision)

S13: Not perfect, but looked decent to me.

S14:
* The water balloon errand didn't look like it went exactly as intended with some additional wait and a missed toss.
* Did you forget where the 4th panties were? It looked like you were roaming about for a while without direction...

Overall: Especially forgetting the route in the panty mission looked pretty bad.

S15:
* Some minor bumps at the start, but no big deal since Jimmy was in place for the first class at 9 am.
* One missed photo.
* I'm questioning if the approach to the G&G at around the 5 min mark was correct. You can also get it by jumping over the fence from the road (now or at a later stage). It seems like that would have been less of a detour?
* Was it really necessary to do the crab errand in this segment? It meant going to sleep a bit after 7 pm, go out of the way (not on the way from the girl to the beach house) and also losing the go-kart (or would the go-kart disappear after the night in the beach house?).
* Some minor hesitation when crossing the plank to the rubber band #31.
* Nice strat in 'Beach Rumble', but I'm not sure it went exactly as planned. Part of the fight was a bit rough.
* One missed flag in 'Geography 2'

Overall: Could have been cleaner, but not too much time lost for a 12 min segment.

S16:
* I lost count on the number of missed yearbook photos. Sure, the "hit detection" (for lack of a better term) is trash when it comes to photos, but I'm sure that a couple of more attempts would eventually have resulted in something more polished.
* Fighting the way out of Harrington House didn't look super clean either. I'm thinking loud here, but couldn't you have done a bullrush on one guy and just kept running?
* 'Math 2' didn't look as rehearsed as it should have been.

Overall: This is a typical example of a nice demonstration of the route, but it's not a polished speedrun segment.

S17: Pretty much a timed segment (except for photo accuracy) since you had to wait for the errand at 7 pm to appear. So the mistakes early on didn't matter.

S18:
* Many missed photos at the start and during mid-recess. I understand that it's risky to leave too many photos of the yearbook until later in the game, but I'm thinking it should still be faster to take safer and fewer photos instead of just wildly clicking around. Walking around in "photo mode" worked pretty well for me. Not as fast as running around, but less bad photos.
* 'English 3' was terrible. Again, it looked like the words hadn't been properly memorized in advance and the game mechanic of moving the cursor to the next letter each time you select a letter seemed to have been forgotten several times.
* The fries errand went... Well, after some collateral damage, the job got eventually done.
* More photos before going to bed (including a few failed ones and even attempting to take a photo of an already photoed guy).

Overall: I understand that a lot of stuff was crammed into the 10 min of this segment, but some of the mistakes in some of the missions were pretty unforgiveable...

S19:
* Pretty good photo session before class.
* 'Art 3' got me thinking (again) if that was really the fastest way to clear the class. At least it doesn't like completely optimal to me.

S20:
* Overshot the start of class, which seemed a bit unnecessary that early on.
* The rest was pretty clean.

S21:
* A bunch of mistakes scattered around, but as far as I can tell, none that mattered since Jimmy was just in time for the bike errand to appear at 7 pm.
* Nasty crash at the start of the bike errand, but otherwise it looked like it went according to plan.
* The Sumo game looked pretty good. I know it's not as easy as it looks.

Overall: Too bad with the crash during the bike errand. Otherwise not much time lost, despite a handful mistakes, since most of the segment was determined by arriving at 7 pm in Bullworth town for the bike errand.

S22:
* A bit shaky in the morning, but no time lost since Jimmy had to wait for the errand at 11:30, as pointed out in the run comments.
* I assume it's not possible to collect the package in the mailman errand while in the go-kart? It looks like it would have been slightly faster, if possible.
* 4 and a half minutes lost because of the three additional paper route missions. Even though it turned out to yield the missing money, it was clearly far from the most optimal them. Betting on wrestling would have been way, way faster for the same amount of cash.

Overall: A crazy amount of time lost because of not following the run notes. Possibly a forgiveable mistake in a multi-hour single segment run, but there is no excuse for doing it in a segmented run.

S23:
* It seems like you have picked way more than 5 locks at this point and should have already gotten the bandit mask? If some of those lock pickings didn't count, it means there is a bit of room for improvement. I'm thinking you could maybe run over to the fire alarm before class, which could cut out one in the boys' dorm (I don't remember now if any of them cost time though).
* Finally an acceptable geography class. Thank you...
* At this point, it seems like it starts to run out of things to do before the first class and in mid-recess. Without being able to pinpoint any of the earlier segments in particular (I'm writing this segment-by-segment), I'm guessing that at least some of tasks around the school cost actual time and could have been postponed here (and onwards)?
* 'Math 3', sigh...
* Well played until the timed evening errand, which didn't turn out that great.

Overall: Not much time lost, mainly because most of the day ran on timed task triggers that weren't too tight to meet. The tasks that really counted were a bit sloppy as well though.

S24:
* Despite arriving late for 'English 4', it looked pretty good to me up until that point.
* The usual Engrish and hesitations in the English class. Maybe somewhat cleaner than the previous ones though.
* Last mission went fine.

Overall: Pretty decent segment, but just like the Math classes, the English classes don't seem to be memorized as well as they could have been. There are just too many hesitations and execution errors in what should be a straight-forward task.

S25:
* 'Art 4' looked exactly like I imagined these tasks should look. Wasn't it possible to come up with equally simple solutions for the other art classes?
* Terrible, terrible dodge ball game. I know it's a bit random, but they are honestly really easy and it shouldn' waste too many attempts to manipulate two good rounds, without losing the ball.
* I didn't follow in detail all the menuing at Final Cut, but I have a distinct feeling there was a bit of back and forth towards the end. Also, wouldn't looking at the money left be a sufficient indication when you're done?
* 'Lola's Race' is mentioned in the run comments and it's hard to disagree. The job got done, but not without a couple of unprovoqued time losses.

Overall: A very long segment. I didn't see any reason for why it wasn't split up in two by adding another save point at the Greasers' hideout. I think the two seconds or so that a save costs would easily have been compensated by being able to grind out cleaner attempts of two shorter segments. Even for a segment this long, it felt like there were a few too many mistakes before one would start thinking in terms of "clean" or similar adjectives.

S26:
* Thought/open question: In hindsight, wouldn't it have been possible to collect some more weapons in earlier segments to speed up some of those fights instead of doing the yearbook asap?
* Late arrival for afternoon class, which meant that every mistake during the mid-recess was a time loss.
* 'Photo 3' went okayish, but far from stellar. I don't know the spread of a good vs a bad 'Photo 3', but would it have been an option to save before class and manipulate a near perfect photo session? (the next segment is very short)

Overall: Far from the worst segment, but still room for improvement.

S27: This is the kind of level I would like to see in the gameplay throughout (even though this was admittedly only a short segment).

S28:
* "I had the perfect dodgeball games on all my ‘failed’ attempts at this segment – seriously.". That's one way to look at it. Another way is: "Since it was so early in the segment, I reset if I had a bad dodgeball game, which meant that all completed attempts had good dodgeball games"... :-)
* 'Geography 4' wasn't too bad, but basically "free" seconds were lost because of hesitations since the layout hadn't been memorized well enough.
* Again, buying clothes in the shop seemed to cause some minor troubles. As for the check at the end, why not just look at the money left? If you do enough attempts on a segment like this, you're going to learn exactly how much money is left when you're done.
* 'Math 4', way to go! That's what I'm talking about! This is the level of execution that I'm expecting to see!
* In 'Galloway Away', do you really need to wait for the orderly before hitting the power source of the watcher? It looks like there was a bit of time during which you could have shot?

Overall: Some good intentions survived from the previous segment, but some of the old habits started to appear again. A reset would have been warranted after the dodgeball game imo.

S29:
* 'English 5' felt like an improvement over some of the earlier English classes, but was still far from what I would have expected.
* Bad luck indeed with the soda pick-up, but it's almost unavoidable, considering how common it is that knocked outs drop one.
* The afternoon was mostly ok, but since Jimmy got to bed after 7 pm, every minor mistake added up to the tally of lost seconds (and there were a few).

Overall: Decent segment, I'd say better than average.

S30:
* In 'Art 5', wouldn't it have been possible to cover a bit more area with the first three lines to meet the requirement?
* The dodgeball in 'Sport 5' wasn't great, but not terrible either.
* I knew that 'Big Game' would be tricky, but I had somehow expected there to be some speedrun strat to avoid spending too much time with the side-kicks. Anyways, a decent chunk of time lost compared with a perfect mission.
* Why not save after 'Biology 5'? I can see that everything that happens after that point are timed events, but wouldn't it still have helped grind out a cleaner 'Big Game'?

Overall: For such a long segment, the time losses were not too big. But that's mostly thanks to quite a lot of timed events. The 'Big Game' was a bit rough though. There was definitely time that could come off that mission.

S31: Nice rat strat. There were some minor movement mistakes, but everything was done in time before 7 pm, so all good. Pretty much a perfect segment.

S32:
* It seems a bit of a waste to cut it so close to the start of the afternoon class just because of some additional projectile shots. It ended up with both arriving slightly late for class and the go-kart being parked in the wrong direction.
* 'Photo 4' was ok, with the exception of a missed photo at the carnival.
* No bedtime at 7 pm, so all time losses went directly towards the final time. The job eventually got done, but there were a handful of minor flaws before the segment ended.
* Question: Does the go-kart always despawn after the 'Finding Johnny Vincent' mission? If not, wouldn't it have been better to leave it at the gates of the asylum?

Overall: Nothing too major (if we don't count the Greaser interference in the escort errand), but again several minor errors that add up in the end.

S33:
* Why not jump over the fence down to the street after accepting the first errand? Seems faster than going around to take the stairs down. Would maybe have allowed you to enter class asap.
* 'Geography 5' - not good

Overall: Super short segment and pretty uneventful. I would have expected such a segment to be virtually without any visible mistakes. Unfortunately, it was not the case.

S34:
* That's how I like to see the Math classes done. If the cursor is in the wrong place or there is a small doubt about the correct answer (even though that should obviously never be an issue with some practice before doing attempts), just click on to the next question instead of overthinking it.
* Ok afternoon session, I guess.

Overall: Not a flawless segment, but seemed like it went fine for the most part.

S35: Not much to say. Basically a free segment, where everything was planned to meet certain timed events. The only time loss was the unfortunate and super unlucky attack during the escort mission near the end.

S36: Bedtime after 7 pm, so some time was lost, but not too bad. Still pretty ok segment.

S37: Good segment, but why couldn't the go-kart be used during the bike races here? According to what you wrote in the forum, it should be possible for at least some of these races. Or were they so short that it wouldn't have paid off?

S38:
* Again, why not use the go-kart for some of these bike races?
* Not that I have a better suggestion, but it feels a bit unfortunate to have to spend time after 7 pm to buy sodas.
* The clothes buying was pretty average again. And the check at the end completely unnecessary. Why not just look at the money left? If you know how much money you have when you get in (which is easy to find out) and the total amount of money all the clothes cost (again, easy to find out), there shouldn't be a problem at all here.

Overall: Not sure what to say. I guess it depends on some route questions that I can't answer myself.

S39:
* Could've planned the parking outside the carnival a bit better to make it easier to exit. Also, another bad driving mistake on the way back to the classroom.
* Huge planning mistake at the carnival. The scooter and the poster don't count towards the 100%. That's 95 tickets too many earned. If each round cost ~15 seconds, that's like three and a half minutes lost.

Overall: The huge planning mistake obviously makes this segment unacceptable.

S40:
* Just a thought that could maybe apply to some other segment(s) as well. Are you sure it's not faster to turn right immediately after the bridge onto the dirt road? It's at least a shorter distance.
* A few movement mistakes in the power plant.
* Would an earlier second volley of itching powder stun lock Edgar again and avoid getting knocked down in both phases?

Overall: Some question marks and movement mistakes. Some ok parts as well.

S41:
* I had a bit of problems with these two missions when playing casually. Too bad about the truck in 'The Collector', which cost a couple of seconds. 'Mailbox Armageddon' was a bit rough to watch. The hitboxes of those mail boxes are pretty terrible, but I know this can be done faster and definitely that it's not that hard to stay on the bike for the whole mission.

Overall: It was a bit painful to see the seconds ticking away in such a short segment, even though I know that these missions are somewhat a pain in the ass (at least casually).

S42: Some minor things, but most of it looked pretty speedy.

S43:
* Too bad that the planning didn't quite work out in the end and required another failed class. I don't have any suggestions on how to do it differently though.
* The cloth shopping was like the previous ones (not stellar).

Overall: Like most segments, a handful of unprovoqued mistakes. It looks like it should be possible to iron some of them out with some more attempts.

It went a bit faster to play through the game and watch the run than I had expected, so here we go.

A/V:
The encoding isn't great, but I know that the quality can be improved for the final encoding. There are a lot of dropped frames throughout, but I guess it's still on the acceptable side. It's pretty noticeable in some sections though, so not ideal.

Gameplay: 
First of all, I applaud the effort. It's obvious that a lot of thought has gone into the planning of this run. I have recently played through this game for a 100% completion and it was entertaining to see that being done as a speedrun right afterwards.

I understand that finding a route through all of the possibilities was no small task. I can't say that anything seemed odd in the grander scheme of things, but I'm not sure my one playthrough would be enough to assess the route in enough detail either. Anyways, the planning part looked strong. I disagree with a few minor things and there were at least three instances of where unnecessary tasks were performed accounting for around 8 min lost.

The execution is generally much less polished than the planning. There are bumps and movement mistakes that lose a second or two at fairly frequent intervals. Stuff like that obviously add up over the course of an 8 hour run. That being said, many of the mistakes have no impact on the final time, because a lot of the run is determined by tasks that are only available from a certain time. So playing faster would only have meant waiting longer. Since those parts can be done fairly "relaxed", it actually raises the expectancy bar for the parts with non-timed events though. The problem is that the gameplay isn't necessarily stronger for these parts. Overall, this run looks like a demonstration or validation of the route and as such it's a success and I'm sure will be a valuable baseline next time someone attempts a 100% run. However, this run is not a good fit for SDA. It requires a lot more polish than this.

After watching the run, I did browse the top single segment time (any%). By watching a few minutes here and there, it looked like some different route options were taken (obviously not counting ones that were due to the difference between any% and 100%). That means there might still be some work left to optimize the segments, which could possibly lead to replanning of the route if enough time can be saved to squeeze more content into some of the segments. I'm also inclined to say that the level of play was generally higher in the single segment run. It's clearly a problem if a run of 2h40 min looks cleaner than segments that are 10-15 min long.

So, to me this is a pretty clear

Reject (but wouldn't mind watching a more polished version in the future)

Here are my comments about the individual segments that I did along the way to keep track of things:
[hidden]S1: 
* Looks good except for an ugly execution mistake when jumping down from the principal's office.
* Has it been properly established that jumping up and down stairs is faster than running? It looks like Jimmy freezes for a short while before a jump.

Opinion: For such a short segment, the failed jump was pretty significant. I would have considered resetting at that point...

S2:
* Well played until 'English 1', which was sloppy.
* 'Defend Bucky' wasn't too convincing and the skateboarding back to the dorm wasn't too impressive either. However, I'm not sure how much the latter mattered since Jimmy was back in bed only very shortly after 7 pm.

Opinion: Fairly long segment. The amount of mistakes are in the higher end of what is acceptable, in my opinion. But since perfect execution would have meant waiting for going to sleep, I guess it's still passable.

S3:
* Why not trigger a fire alarm in the boy's dorm?
* It feels like 'Art 1' should be possible to do more efficiently in less distance covered. Just a feeling though.
* The execution in the first few missions is so-so, but in the end it doesn't matter since you anyways needed to wait for the clock to turn 1 pm.

Opinion: A segment that mostly depends on timed events. Despite a few mistakes here and there, I don't see them really losing any time since getting done earlier would just have meant more waiting.

S4: Overall, a short segment that looked ok (despite some minor flaws).

S5: The segment is mainly determined by arriving in time for 'Music 1' at 1 pm. There were a few mistakes that should normally have warranted a reset, but in this case didn't matter since they would just have prolonged the wait for class.

S6:
* I assume it's not possible to collect more fire crackers before this segment? It would have saved a bit of time with the pumpkin heads.
* Okayish until the fight with Russel, but I'm guessing a few more tries could have yielded an even cleaner playthrough.
* A few seconds lost by getting knocked down by Russel and him blocking towards the end. I'm not familiar enough with the speedstrats or how random this fight is, but something tells me that a few more attempts would have resulted in a faster fight and the runner seems to agree in the run comments.

Opinion: Not the strongest segment.

S7:
* Not much to say before 1 pm as you had to wait around for class to begin anyways.
* A missed photo in 'Photography 1' looked pretty bad.
(Edit: After watching the run, I tested and concluded that the in-game timer isn't running when looking at a photograph. A bad photo is obviously still some kind of time loss because you have to realign for the new photo etc.)

Overall: There were a few minor mistakes during 'Photography 1'. So it's definitely improveable, but I'm guessing it doesn't account for much time lost. Still looks a bit unpolished and not exactly unbeatable.

S8:
* Lots of small movement mistakes throughout. Each one didn't cost a lot of time, but it obviously adds up at some point...
* The go-karting was meh. A chunk of time was lost in the third race (I think) because of uncooperative opponents.

Overall: Long segment, but the level of "unpolishness" is becoming pretty noticeable. I'm not sure how much time a perfect playthrough would have saved, since you anywyas had to wait for 1 pm before getting busted.

S9:
* As mentioned in the comments some minor trouble getting into the 'Geography 1' class, but nothing major.
* Honestly, the 'Geography 1' class was absolutely rubbish. I admit that I had the same type of trouble when trying to place the flags for the US states (I'm European), but come on... When knowing the solution in advance, those mistakes, that early on, are inexcusable and should have led to a reset.
* 'Math 1' was in the lower end of okayish and even more so for what looked like a short and easy segment.

Overall: This should be redone. I don't see any particular difficulty in this segment and some unwarranted mistakes in what looks like a simple segment.

S10: This segment is basically about two go-kart races. Both look ok for the most part, but also contain some mistakes that are questionable for a segment of this type.

S11:
* Considering how much time was spent avoiding the prefects, it looks like it should have been possible to break into another locker and trigger another fire alarm before the afternoon class.
* 'English 1' didn't look too rehearsed. Isn't it just memorizing the best words and then do them in the same order each time? I have a hard time seeing how this should cause any trouble at all after enough practice.
* Nice, oob!
* A bit of trouble with go-kart #3, but mostly ok. However, I'm sure there are faster paths through the race. For example, at the turn near the power plant, you don't have to follow the road, but can cross over the pavement. There might be a similar shortcut later on as well (don't remember). I'm not sure this mattered though since Jimmy was back at the bed almost exactly at 7 pm.

Overall: The segment looked fairly straight-forward, so I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been better to reset after the mistakes early on. Also, question mark with regards to the routing here.

S12:
* Not a big deal, but did you actually have to park the go-kart so far away from the boxing club that you had to skateboard the last part?
* You don't have to fight the "random opponent" fight. Half a minute lost?
* The boxing seemed to go ok. The opponent's are a bit random as far as I can tell, so some blocking etc is to be expected.
* The rest of the segment was fairly time-insensitive since there is a bit of buffer to complete all the tasks and be back at the bed at 7 pm. So despite some mistakes, it had no impact on the overall time.

Overall: Not ok. Significant routing mistake in taking on one boxing fight more than necessary. (at least I can't see any reason to do this fight and there is none mentioned in the comments either for such an "unconventional" decision)

S13: Not perfect, but looked decent to me.

S14:
* The water balloon errand didn't look like it went exactly as intended with some additional wait and a missed toss.
* Did you forget where the 4th panties were? It looked like you were roaming about for a while without direction...

Overall: Especially forgetting the route in the panty mission looked pretty bad.

S15:
* Some minor bumps at the start, but no big deal since Jimmy was in place for the first class at 9 am.
* One missed photo.
* I'm questioning if the approach to the G&G at around the 5 min mark was correct. You can also get it by jumping over the fence from the road (now or at a later stage). It seems like that would have been less of a detour?
* Was it really necessary to do the crab errand in this segment? It meant going to sleep a bit after 7 pm, go out of the way (not on the way from the girl to the beach house) and also losing the go-kart (or would the go-kart disappear after the night in the beach house?).
* Some minor hesitation when crossing the plank to the rubber band #31.
* Nice strat in 'Beach Rumble', but I'm not sure it went exactly as planned. Part of the fight was a bit rough.
* One missed flag in 'Geography 2'

Overall: Could have been cleaner, but not too much time lost for a 12 min segment.

S16:
* I lost count on the number of missed yearbook photos. Sure, the "hit detection" (for lack of a better term) is trash when it comes to photos, but I'm sure that a couple of more attempts would eventually have resulted in something more polished.
* Fighting the way out of Harrington House didn't look super clean either. I'm thinking loud here, but couldn't you have done a bullrush on one guy and just kept running?
* 'Math 2' didn't look as rehearsed as it should have been.

Overall: This is a typical example of a nice demonstration of the route, but it's not a polished speedrun segment.

S17: Pretty much a timed segment (except for photo accuracy) since you had to wait for the errand at 7 pm to appear. So the mistakes early on didn't matter.

S18:
* Many missed photos at the start and during mid-recess. I understand that it's risky to leave too many photos of the yearbook until later in the game, but I'm thinking it should still be faster to take safer and fewer photos instead of just wildly clicking around. Walking around in "photo mode" worked pretty well for me. Not as fast as running around, but less bad photos.
* 'English 3' was terrible. Again, it looked like the words hadn't been properly memorized in advance and the game mechanic of moving the cursor to the next letter each time you select a letter seemed to have been forgotten several times.
* The fries errand went... Well, after some collateral damage, the job got eventually done.
* More photos before going to bed (including a few failed ones and even attempting to take a photo of an already photoed guy).

Overall: I understand that a lot of stuff was crammed into the 10 min of this segment, but some of the mistakes in some of the missions were pretty unforgiveable...

S19:
* Pretty good photo session before class.
* 'Art 3' got me thinking (again) if that was really the fastest way to clear the class. At least it doesn't like completely optimal to me.

S20:
* Overshot the start of class, which seemed a bit unnecessary that early on.
* The rest was pretty clean.

S21:
* A bunch of mistakes scattered around, but as far as I can tell, none that mattered since Jimmy was just in time for the bike errand to appear at 7 pm.
* Nasty crash at the start of the bike errand, but otherwise it looked like it went according to plan.
* The Sumo game looked pretty good. I know it's not as easy as it looks.

Overall: Too bad with the crash during the bike errand. Otherwise not much time lost, despite a handful mistakes, since most of the segment was determined by arriving at 7 pm in Bullworth town for the bike errand.

S22:
* A bit shaky in the morning, but no time lost since Jimmy had to wait for the errand at 11:30, as pointed out in the run comments.
* I assume it's not possible to collect the package in the mailman errand while in the go-kart? It looks like it would have been slightly faster, if possible.
* 4 and a half minutes lost because of the three additional paper route missions. Even though it turned out to yield the missing money, it was clearly far from the most optimal them. Betting on wrestling would have been way, way faster for the same amount of cash.

Overall: A crazy amount of time lost because of not following the run notes. Possibly a forgiveable mistake in a multi-hour single segment run, but there is no excuse for doing it in a segmented run.

S23:
* It seems like you have picked way more than 5 locks at this point and should have already gotten the bandit mask? If some of those lock pickings didn't count, it means there is a bit of room for improvement. I'm thinking you could maybe run over to the fire alarm before class, which could cut out one in the boys' dorm (I don't remember now if any of them cost time though).
* Finally an acceptable geography class. Thank you...
* At this point, it seems like it starts to run out of things to do before the first class and in mid-recess. Without being able to pinpoint any of the earlier segments in particular (I'm writing this segment-by-segment), I'm guessing that at least some of tasks around the school cost actual time and could have been postponed here (and onwards)?
* 'Math 3', sigh...
* Well played until the timed evening errand, which didn't turn out that great.

Overall: Not much time lost, mainly because most of the day ran on timed task triggers that weren't too tight to meet. The tasks that really counted were a bit sloppy as well though.

S24:
* Despite arriving late for 'English 4', it looked pretty good to me up until that point.
* The usual Engrish and hesitations in the English class. Maybe somewhat cleaner than the previous ones though.
* Last mission went fine.

Overall: Pretty decent segment, but just like the Math classes, the English classes don't seem to be memorized as well as they could have been. There are just too many hesitations and execution errors in what should be a straight-forward task.

S25:
* 'Art 4' looked exactly like I imagined these tasks should look. Wasn't it possible to come up with equally simple solutions for the other art classes?
* Terrible, terrible dodge ball game. I know it's a bit random, but they are honestly really easy and it shouldn' waste too many attempts to manipulate two good rounds, without losing the ball.
* I didn't follow in detail all the menuing at Final Cut, but I have a distinct feeling there was a bit of back and forth towards the end. Also, wouldn't looking at the money left be a sufficient indication when you're done?
* 'Lola's Race' is mentioned in the run comments and it's hard to disagree. The job got done, but not without a couple of unprovoqued time losses.

Overall: A very long segment. I didn't see any reason for why it wasn't split up in two by adding another save point at the Greasers' hideout. I think the two seconds or so that a save costs would easily have been compensated by being able to grind out cleaner attempts of two shorter segments. Even for a segment this long, it felt like there were a few too many mistakes before one would start thinking in terms of "clean" or similar adjectives.

S26:
* Thought/open question: In hindsight, wouldn't it have been possible to collect some more weapons in earlier segments to speed up some of those fights instead of doing the yearbook asap?
* Late arrival for afternoon class, which meant that every mistake during the mid-recess was a time loss.
* 'Photo 3' went okayish, but far from stellar. I don't know the spread of a good vs a bad 'Photo 3', but would it have been an option to save before class and manipulate a near perfect photo session? (the next segment is very short)

Overall: Far from the worst segment, but still room for improvement.

S27: This is the kind of level I would like to see in the gameplay throughout (even though this was admittedly only a short segment).

S28:
* "I had the perfect dodgeball games on all my ‘failed’ attempts at this segment – seriously.". That's one way to look at it. Another way is: "Since it was so early in the segment, I reset if I had a bad dodgeball game, which meant that all completed attempts had good dodgeball games"... :-)
* 'Geography 4' wasn't too bad, but basically "free" seconds were lost because of hesitations since the layout hadn't been memorized well enough.
* Again, buying clothes in the shop seemed to cause some minor troubles. As for the check at the end, why not just look at the money left? If you do enough attempts on a segment like this, you're going to learn exactly how much money is left when you're done.
* 'Math 4', way to go! That's what I'm talking about! This is the level of execution that I'm expecting to see!
* In 'Galloway Away', do you really need to wait for the orderly before hitting the power source of the watcher? It looks like there was a bit of time during which you could have shot?

Overall: Some good intentions survived from the previous segment, but some of the old habits started to appear again. A reset would have been warranted after the dodgeball game imo.

S29:
* 'English 5' felt like an improvement over some of the earlier English classes, but was still far from what I would have expected.
* Bad luck indeed with the soda pick-up, but it's almost unavoidable, considering how common it is that knocked outs drop one.
* The afternoon was mostly ok, but since Jimmy got to bed after 7 pm, every minor mistake added up to the tally of lost seconds (and there were a few).

Overall: Decent segment, I'd say better than average.

S30:
* In 'Art 5', wouldn't it have been possible to cover a bit more area with the first three lines to meet the requirement?
* The dodgeball in 'Sport 5' wasn't great, but not terrible either.
* I knew that 'Big Game' would be tricky, but I had somehow expected there to be some speedrun strat to avoid spending too much time with the side-kicks. Anyways, a decent chunk of time lost compared with a perfect mission.
* Why not save after 'Biology 5'? I can see that everything that happens after that point are timed events, but wouldn't it still have helped grind out a cleaner 'Big Game'?

Overall: For such a long segment, the time losses were not too big. But that's mostly thanks to quite a lot of timed events. The 'Big Game' was a bit rough though. There was definitely time that could come off that mission.

S31: Nice rat strat. There were some minor movement mistakes, but everything was done in time before 7 pm, so all good. Pretty much a perfect segment.

S32:
* It seems a bit of a waste to cut it so close to the start of the afternoon class just because of some additional projectile shots. It ended up with both arriving slightly late for class and the go-kart being parked in the wrong direction.
* 'Photo 4' was ok, with the exception of a missed photo at the carnival.
* No bedtime at 7 pm, so all time losses went directly towards the final time. The job eventually got done, but there were a handful of minor flaws before the segment ended.
* Question: Does the go-kart always despawn after the 'Finding Johnny Vincent' mission? If not, wouldn't it have been better to leave it at the gates of the asylum?

Overall: Nothing too major (if we don't count the Greaser interference in the escort errand), but again several minor errors that add up in the end.

S33:
* Why not jump over the fence down to the street after accepting the first errand? Seems faster than going around to take the stairs down. Would maybe have allowed you to enter class asap.
* 'Geography 5' - not good

Overall: Super short segment and pretty uneventful. I would have expected such a segment to be virtually without any visible mistakes. Unfortunately, it was not the case.

S34:
* That's how I like to see the Math classes done. If the cursor is in the wrong place or there is a small doubt about the correct answer (even though that should obviously never be an issue with some practice before doing attempts), just click on to the next question instead of overthinking it.
* Ok afternoon session, I guess.

Overall: Not a flawless segment, but seemed like it went fine for the most part.

S35: Not much to say. Basically a free segment, where everything was planned to meet certain timed events. The only time loss was the unfortunate and super unlucky attack during the escort mission near the end.

S36: Bedtime after 7 pm, so some time was lost, but not too bad. Still pretty ok segment.

S37: Good segment, but why couldn't the go-kart be used during the bike races here? According to what you wrote in the forum, it should be possible for at least some of these races. Or were they so short that it wouldn't have paid off?

S38:
* Again, why not use the go-kart for some of these bike races?
* Not that I have a better suggestion, but it feels a bit unfortunate to have to spend time after 7 pm to buy sodas.
* The clothes buying was pretty average again. And the check at the end completely unnecessary. Why not just look at the money left? If you know how much money you have when you get in (which is easy to find out) and the total amount of money all the clothes cost (again, easy to find out), there shouldn't be a problem at all here.

Overall: Not sure what to say. I guess it depends on some route questions that I can't answer myself.

S39:
* Could've planned the parking outside the carnival a bit better to make it easier to exit. Also, another bad driving mistake on the way back to the classroom.
* Huge planning mistake at the carnival. The scooter and the poster don't count towards the 100%. That's 95 tickets too many earned. If each round cost ~15 seconds, that's like three and a half minutes lost.

Overall: The huge planning mistake obviously makes this segment unacceptable.

S40:
* Just a thought that could maybe apply to some other segment(s) as well. Are you sure it's not faster to turn right immediately after the bridge onto the dirt road? It's at least a shorter distance.
* A few movement mistakes in the power plant.
* Would an earlier second volley of itching powder stun lock Edgar again and avoid getting knocked down in both phases?

Overall: Some question marks and movement mistakes. Some ok parts as well.

S41:
* I had a bit of problems with these two missions when playing casually. Too bad about the truck in 'The Collector', which cost a couple of seconds. 'Mailbox Armageddon' was a bit rough to watch. The hitboxes of those mail boxes are pretty terrible, but I know this can be done faster and definitely that it's not that hard to stay on the bike for the whole mission.

Overall: It was a bit painful to see the seconds ticking away in such a short segment, even though I know that these missions are somewhat a pain in the ass (at least casually).

S42: Some minor things, but most of it looked pretty speedy.

S43: 
* Too bad that the planning didn't quite work out in the end and required another failed class. I don't have any suggestions on how to do it differently though. 
* The cloth shopping was like the previous ones (not stellar).

Overall: Like most segments, a handful of unprovoqued mistakes. It looks like it should be possible to iron some of them out with some more attempts.[/hidden]

d_arnold07

Edit history:

d_arnold07: 2017-07-24 07:11:34 am

2017-07-24 05:20:58 am

Runners comment to the questions above (sorry if I miss anything):

Q. Why the poor video quality and frequent frame drops during the game?

A. I actually had 1080p encodes ready to upload for verification but they were in mkv format which can’t be used for verification. Thus I had to re-encode the whole run again – I chose to encode it at a lower resolution/bit-rate this time, as it would take 4x times faster to encode and ~4x times quicker to upload. I’ve got ADSL internet and my upload speed is only 75-100kB/s (LQ took ~12hrs or something to upload); so yeh pretty slow. Also, uploading makes my internet (downloads) slow to a crawl due to the extra ACK packets overhead from uploading.

The frame drops occur as the game is an unoptimized console port (locked 30fps/single-threaded only etc) which runs poorly on modern operating systems. I've read that the game crashes quite frequently on windows 10. Luckily I’m on windows 7. My pc is 4gb ram, Q9550 2.83gbz quad cpu and 580gtx; so quite high above the recommended specs of the game. I played and recorded on max settings (1080p) as that’s what I’d like to play it at and I’m sure that’s what people would like to watch the run at.

Also, if I’m not mistaken I don’t think having frame drops in the game is against a SDA rule unless I’m missing something in the knowledge FAQ? In this case, the frame drops can’t be controlled as they happen sporadically due the game been a trashy port. Though, I have tried to tweak my settings a bit (lowering shadows, disable AA, and disable AV etc) but the game still has frame-rate drops here and there.

Q. Why the frequent execution mistakes, in which the runner should have resetted multiple segments in order to make a more polished SDA quality run?

A. I was on holidays when I planned and recorded the run – I guess I was trying to rush through the run so I could go back to my normal gaming schedule (performing the run was taking up most of my free time). I wouldn’t even have started planning again if I didn’t replay the game on the xbox one when I did.

It’s been almost a month since I started (and finished) the run and I haven’t actually touched another game as I’m in the process of trying to improve my any% run. I did reset many times and tested a fair few things until I, personally, was satisfied with what I thought was acceptable. I guess it’s clear that the ‘polish’ of the run is not on par for SDA quality. But I’m cool with that – this is what verification is for. Also, I was getting a couple of comments for people requesting the run to be completed on youtube, so I guess I was rushing because of that too.

Q. What’s the reason behind the mistakes in classes such as English, Math, and Geography when the answers are already known? Wouldn’t memorization be quicker too?

A. I did have the answers printed out and sticky taped to the monitor, so I could flip them over whilst attempting the segments. I thought this was the best setup (for me) as there was less eye travel from the answers and the screen. The mistakes were due to this setup as I was looking back and forth from the answers and the screen; I missed the hitboxes for the geography flags because of this – the hitboxes are quite poor.

Memorizing the answers would be quite faster but I don’t think I’m smart enough for that (bad memory).

Q. Can’t art classes be done quicker too?

A. I believe some art classes can be done in fewer ‘strokes’ – I guess I should’ve tested this some more.

Q. Has it been properly established that jumping up and down stairs is faster than running?

A. I haven’t done proper frame by frame testing but by my own judgement I believe it is faster. I definitely know that ‘bunny hopping’ is quite noticeable slower than running.

Q. Why the bad planning of the fire-alarms and the purchasing of the 500 sodas in the run?

A. I didn’t properly plan on when to fully optimize these two parts of the run – poor planning on my part. I originally thought (as noted in comments) that time isn’t paused during the shop menu (which it is). This led to extra backtracking to shops more than necessary as I didn’t want to be late for classes/sleeping etc in some particular segments.

Q. In segment 6, can more fire-crackers be collected to make pumpkin smashing quicker? What are the speed strats for the fight against Russel?

A. Fire-crackers do spawn in the boxes that are placed around the basement of the school. The items in the boxes are randomized and I thought it would be quicker to just use the 3 fire-crackers that I had from the chemistry set and I guess I was too lazy to try/test this.

As far as I know to beat Russel the quickest is to just 3-hit combo him, at the longest punch range you can and hope for good RNG. He becomes more ‘aggro’ when you have the slingshot out as well.

Q. Is time paused when you attempt and view a failed photography?

A. Yes I believe so too - bad execution on my part.

Q. Were there any shortcuts not used in go-kart street race 3 to save time?

A. As noted in the verification comments: yes. But time isn’t paused during the race and I get back to bed in good time so I didn’t really fell the need to do them. I guess I didn’t test this race as much as I should’ve.

Q. In segment 12: not a big deal, but did you actually have to park the go-kart so far away from the boxing club that you had to skateboard the last part?

A. No, that was an execution mistake on my part. However, when you park too close to the door you may be accidentally stuck in the go-kart (not permanently though), when activating the mission “The Eggs”. I wasn’t trying to avoid that or anything; just a tip.

Q. Also in segment 12, you don't have to beat the "Boxing: Random Challenge”? Half a minute lost?

A. I did have in my notes on the forum that this side-mission is optional. However, I haven’t doubled checked all the figures (I’m planning on posting a more up-date version soon) and by my recent testing this fight is worth 0.35%.

Q. In segment 14, the runner should have resetted due to the mistakes in the water balloon errand and “Panty Raid” mission.

A. I agree. To my defense, I find the water balloon errand to be very luck based – I tried as many times as I could bare to get it near perfect as I could. Furthermore, I had some difficulties getting busted, as the errand always results in a high alert, from cops.

My overshooting the 4th ‘dirty laundry’ was because I paying too much to where the prefect was on the mini-map.

Q. In segment 15, the G&G card on the rock should be collected at a later time in order to save time needing to backtrack it?

A. Looking at the route now I agree – I haven’t fully worked out when though. I didn’t collect the card before activating the lost teddy bear errand because if I collect the card before going to the beach; I found that Karen would spawn and the chance to activate the errand will disappear before I can reach her. Also, I now realized I should’ve just ran over the bully with the go-kart as it results him dropping the bear. I don’t think I did this because I was paranoid he was going to run away.

Q. Also in segment 15: can the crab errand be done at a different time in order for the run to be more fully optimized? Also, does the go-kart disappear during the errand?

A. Yes, I believe the errand could be shuffled in at a more optimized time but I’m not sure when. Also, from my testing the go-kart disappears during both the lost teddy and the crab errand due to the distance traveled away from the go-kart. I thought it was best to slot these two together, as I did, because of this.

On topic of improving the collection of the collectibles: I've realized that during segment 3 (while completing the mission "That Bitch"), is the best time to collect the card in the boy's toilets (in the gym) and to collect the rubber band outside the gym. Another bad route decision on my part.

Q. "Why the minor hesitation before collecting the 31st rubber band while crossing the fallen down branch?" RE segment 15:

A. This was due to the shitty camera angle coming out from the tunnel. I came out of the tunnel ‘slowly’ in order to not fall off the branch and not have to reset the whole segment because of this obstacle.

Q. Beach rumble could have gone better, no?

A. I agree. I got trolled from the shitty auto-lock camera controls. Looking back at it now I think it would be fastest to run to the door and blow up the preppies as they come out the door. But I’m not sure on what I should do during the time before class though.

Q. In segment 22: during the mailman errand: can the package be picked up and the gnome smashed while in the go-kart?

A. Correct. I didn’t think of this; great suggestion for an improvement.

Q. Also in segment 22: why did the runner do the optional 3 paper route mission when it is written in the notes that they are optional and that there are faster money making method such as midget wrestling?

A. I totally forgot that those last 3 paper routes were optional and I only found out after completing the run; when I was perusing my older notes. That’s a big mistake on my part and yes the mission didn’t go too well. However, if the last 3 paper routes are not done, by my quick calculations, I would be missing ~$80 to purchase all the clothing.

I was going to say that there really isn’t much else to do during this part but I just tested and saw that bike races are available during the winter time – I was under the impression they weren’t. (I know mowing grass is definitely not available.) Thus during this ‘wasted time’ I guess I could’ve done some bike races or have completed the crab collection or lost teddy errand.

I also forgot about midget wrestling been a good way to obtain the missing money required to purchase all the clothing – great suggestion. However, time is paused during the betting menu.

On topic of money, I just found out that ~$400 can be obtained during “The Tagging” mission as shown in TheNathanNS video here. I haven’t tested on how to fully optimize this in a run but I think this might be quite useful.
edit: I just tested this and I got a payout of $1000 by tagging the 2nd rooftop tag shown in the video. (It's the one you need to jump across to using the skateboard). However, this adds a bit of time which will involve getting to class a bit late. This is great - some of the clothing can be purchased at an earlier time now and will not have be backtracked to.

Q. Why wasn’t the bandit mask obtained after picking 5 lockers without been detected?

A. I’m pretty sure this is awarded randomly – I haven’t tested this fully.

Q. During the purchasing of clothing; wouldn't looking at the money left be a sufficient indication when you're done?

A. Great suggestion! I did not think of this.

Q. In segment 25: why wasn’t an additional segment used?

A. The go-kart disappears when you load from a save-game. (More precisely, the game world is reset to ‘default’ when the game is loaded.) The segment is long because of this.

Q. In segment 28: do you really need to wait for the orderly before destroying the power source of the statue, during the mission ‘Galloway Away’?

A. Well no… I was been overly cautious during the mission; due to the length of the segment, and if the orderlies hear your slingshot fire they do detect you and kick you out of the grounds. I just tested it now and you can in fact shoot the power source and gnome from outside the fence – I thought the fence was solid. However, the rubber band in the asylum grounds still needs to be collected during this time as this is the only chance to collect it without back tracking (or before entering the asylum during Finding Johnny Vincent).

Q. In segment 30: isn’t there any speed strats that can be used during the football scene during the Big Game mission?

A. As far as I know the only speed strats that can be used is to run around in circles to avoid the opposing strikers and hope that the incoming footballs don’t get tossed out of the football field or hit the said strikers. I did try testing this mission extensively before it and found no time savers at all; apart from trying to manipulate the football players and try to hit 2 of the football players at the one time (very luck based). I was worn out from testing and just wanted to get to the next segments.

Q. Also in segment 30, why not save after biology 5?

A. As said above, the go-kart will disappear when a save-game is loaded.

Q. In segment 32, it seems a bit of a waste to cut it so close to the start of the afternoon class just because of some additional projectile shots.

A. As mentioned in my notes, I did this in order to be able unlock the green ninja outfit within a reasonable time. I didn’t fully test this but I’m certain if I didn’t do this, I would be a fair margin of projectile hits short at the end of the game.
I’ve found out now, after the completion of the run, that you can use the fire extinguish to quickly rack up the projectile hits. I haven’t fully tested this but it’s not as fast as the spud cannon but it is pretty good.

Q. In segment 32, does the go-kart always despawn after completing “Finding Johnny Vincent” mission?

A. I just tested this some more now. The go-kart disappears if you park it at the front gate where the end mission cut-scene is. But it doesn’t disappear if you park it closer to the tree; out of the zone of the cut-scene. (It’s quite a pain to test.) However, if you do it this way you need to activate the crazy farm errand, straight after the mission, before running towards the go-kart as he will follow you, increasing the distance that the escaped inmates will have to run.
I ran the segment the way I did because it was quickest to me.

Also, "Finding Johnny Vincent" can be completed quite quickly by utilizing the following route (thanks to ‘French Toast’). I’ve only found that vid quite recently.

Q. “Why not jump over the fence down to the street after accepting the first errand? Seems faster than going around taking the stairs down.” RE segment 33:

A. I was under the impression you couldn’t. Because if you jump at the far end of the fence there is an invisible wall there but (I found this after I reading your comment) you can jump over the fence closer to the middle. Can’t believe I didn’t think of that.

Q. “That's how I like to see the Math classes done. If the cursor is in the wrong place or there is a small doubt about the correct answer (even though that should obviously never be an issue with some practice before doing attempts), just click on to the next question instead of over thinking it.” (RE: segment 34 during math class 5)

A. I actually planned the ‘misclicks’/wrong answers this way as I thought this was the fastest way to do that class. You need to get 22/24 to pass – I utilize the 2 wrong answers strategically to save time.

Q. In segment 37: why couldn't the go-kart be used during the bike races here as mentioned in the forum notes?

A. I probably did mention that the go-kart can be used during some bike races. But I didn’t mention (which I realized from doing the run) is that the go-kart will despawn on the first time you attempt to do so. I can’t explain why this happens but if you look at the youtube vid here, I show the different testing that I did; to see if I could use the go-kart during the bike race and if it would be faster or not.

From my testing, even if you do use the go-kart during the race, it will end up been slower than just using the bike. This is because the go-kart randomly flips out at the end of the race (I don’t think the developers intended on the go-kart been used during the race). Additionally, time is lost retrieving the go-kart and positioning it for the next race.

Furthermore, I only found out the trick that I perform in segment 39, involving the go-kart, on the day of the recording. If I didn’t do the trick there, I wouldn’t be able to use the go-kart during the Bullworth Academy bike-race, in the way I do.

Q. “Huge planning mistake at the carnival. The scooter and the poster don't count towards the 100%. That's 95 tickets too many earned. If each round cost ~15 seconds, that's like three and a half minutes lost.” RE: segment 39.

A. I can’t believe I didn’t know that. I wasted so much time on those extra tickets trying to fully optimize when I should earn the prizes. Very unacceptable indeed.

Q. “Just a thought that could maybe apply to some other segment(s) as well. Are you sure it's not faster to turn right immediately after the bridge onto the dirt road? It's at least a shorter distance.” RE segment 40.

A. I reviewed the segment and I am unsure on what you mean. Perhaps you could provide a timestamp?

Q. Also in segment 40: Would an earlier second volley of itching powder stun lock Edgar again and avoid getting knocked down in both phases?

A. Good suggestion – I’ll need to test this further at a later stage. But I do believe the itching powder gets blocked because the AI is invulnerable at the stage and a second volley probably wouldn't help. Also, Edgar blocks my attacks from the spray can in this way too.

Q. “Mailbox Armageddon” was a bit rough to watch in segment 41.

A. I am dreadful at this mission (as well as the Big Game football scene) – other people make it look so easy. I couldn’t find any speed strats to make it any easier. I tried leaving a bike and the go-kart in the area of the mission and they both disappear during the mission.

Runners comment to the questions above (sorry if I miss anything):

[hidden]

Q. Why the poor video quality and frequent frame drops during the game?

A. I actually had 1080p encodes ready to upload for verification but they were in mkv format which can’t be used for verification. Thus I had to re-encode the whole run again – I chose to encode it at a lower resolution/bit-rate this time, as it would take 4x times faster to encode and ~4x times quicker to upload. I’ve got ADSL internet and my upload speed is only 75-100kB/s (LQ took ~12hrs or something to upload); so yeh pretty slow. Also, uploading makes my internet (downloads) slow to a crawl due to the extra ACK packets overhead from uploading.

The frame drops occur as the game is an unoptimized console port (locked 30fps/single-threaded only etc) which runs poorly on modern operating systems. I've read that the game crashes quite frequently on windows 10. Luckily I’m on windows 7. My pc is 4gb ram, Q9550 2.83gbz quad cpu and 580gtx; so quite high above the recommended specs of the game. I played and recorded on max settings (1080p) as that’s what I’d like to play it at and I’m sure that’s what people would like to watch the run at.

Also, if I’m not mistaken I don’t think having frame drops in the game is against a SDA rule unless I’m missing something in the knowledge FAQ? In this case, the frame drops can’t be controlled as they happen sporadically due the game been a trashy port. Though, I have tried to tweak my settings a bit (lowering shadows, disable AA, and disable AV etc) but the game still has frame-rate drops here and there.

Q. Why the frequent execution mistakes, in which the runner should have resetted multiple segments in order to make a more polished SDA quality run?

A. I was on holidays when I planned and recorded the run – I guess I was trying to rush through the run so I could go back to my normal gaming schedule (performing the run was taking up most of my free time). I wouldn’t even have started planning again if I didn’t replay the game on the xbox one when I did.

It’s been almost a month since I started (and finished) the run and I haven’t actually touched another game as I’m in the process of trying to improve my any% run. I did reset many times and tested a fair few things until I, personally, was satisfied with what I thought was acceptable. I guess it’s clear that the ‘polish’ of the run is not on par for SDA quality. But I’m cool with that – this is what verification is for. Also, I was getting a couple of comments for people requesting the run to be completed on youtube, so I guess I was rushing because of that too.

Q. What’s the reason behind the mistakes in classes such as English, Math, and Geography when the answers are already known? Wouldn’t memorization be quicker too?

A. I did have the answers printed out and sticky taped to the monitor, so I could flip them over whilst attempting the segments. I thought this was the best setup (for me) as there was less eye travel from the answers and the screen. The mistakes were due to this setup as I was looking back and forth from the answers and the screen; I missed the hitboxes for the geography flags because of this – the hitboxes are quite poor.

Memorizing the answers would be quite faster but I don’t think I’m smart enough for that (bad memory).

Q. Can’t art classes be done quicker too?

A. I believe some art classes can be done in fewer ‘strokes’ – I guess I should’ve tested this some more.

Q. Has it been properly established that jumping up and down stairs is faster than running?

A. I haven’t done proper frame by frame testing but by my own judgement I believe it is faster. I definitely know that ‘bunny hopping’ is quite noticeable slower than running.

Q. Why the bad planning of the fire-alarms and the purchasing of the 500 sodas in the run?

A. I didn’t properly plan on when to fully optimize these two parts of the run – poor planning on my part. I originally thought (as noted in comments) that time isn’t paused during the shop menu (which it is). This led to extra backtracking to shops more than necessary as I didn’t want to be late for classes/sleeping etc in some particular segments.

Q. In segment 6, can more fire-crackers be collected to make pumpkin smashing quicker? What are the speed strats for the fight against Russel?

A. Fire-crackers do spawn in the boxes that are placed around the basement of the school. The items in the boxes are randomized and I thought it would be quicker to just use the 3 fire-crackers that I had from the chemistry set and I guess I was too lazy to try/test this.

As far as I know to beat Russel the quickest is to just 3-hit combo him, at the longest punch range you can and hope for good RNG. He becomes more ‘aggro’ when you have the slingshot out as well.

Q. Is time paused when you attempt and view a failed photography?

A. Yes I believe so too - bad execution on my part.

Q. Were there any shortcuts not used in go-kart street race 3 to save time?

A. As noted in the verification comments: yes. But time isn’t paused during the race and I get back to bed in good time so I didn’t really fell the need to do them. I guess I didn’t test this race as much as I should’ve.

Q. In segment 12: not a big deal, but did you actually have to park the go-kart so far away from the boxing club that you had to skateboard the last part?

A. No, that was an execution mistake on my part. However, when you park too close to the door you may be accidentally stuck in the go-kart (not permanently though), when activating the mission “The Eggs”. I wasn’t trying to avoid that or anything; just a tip.

Q. Also in segment 12, you don't have to beat the "Boxing: Random Challenge”? Half a minute lost?

Q. In segment 14, the runner should have resetted due to the mistakes in the water balloon errand and “Panty Raid” mission.

A. I agree. To my defense, I find the water balloon errand to be very luck based – I tried as many times as I could bare to get it near perfect as I could. Furthermore, I had some difficulties getting busted, as the errand always results in a high alert, from cops.

My overshooting the 4th ‘dirty laundry’ was because I paying too much to where the prefect was on the mini-map.

Q. In segment 15, the G&G card on the rock should be collected at a later time in order to save time needing to backtrack it?

A. Looking at the route now I agree – I haven’t fully worked out when though. I didn’t collect the card before activating the lost teddy bear errand because if I collect the card before going to the beach; I found that Karen would spawn and the chance to activate the errand will disappear before I can reach her. Also, I now realized I should’ve just ran over the bully with the go-kart as it results him dropping the bear. I don’t think I did this because I was paranoid he was going to run away.

Q. Also in segment 15: can the crab errand be done at a different time in order for the run to be more fully optimized? Also, does the go-kart disappear during the errand?

A. Yes, I believe the errand could be shuffled in at a more optimized time but I’m not sure when. Also, from my testing the go-kart disappears during both the lost teddy and the crab errand due to the distance traveled away from the go-kart. I thought it was best to slot these two together, as I did, because of this.

On topic of improving the collection of the collectibles: I've realized that during segment 3 (while completing the mission "That Bitch"), is the best time to collect the card in the boy's toilets (in the gym) and to collect the rubber band outside the gym. Another bad route decision on my part.

Q. "Why the minor hesitation before collecting the 31st rubber band while crossing the fallen down branch?" RE segment 15:

A. This was due to the shitty camera angle coming out from the tunnel. I came out of the tunnel ‘slowly’ in order to not fall off the branch and not have to reset the whole segment because of this obstacle.

Q. Beach rumble could have gone better, no?

A. I agree. I got trolled from the shitty auto-lock camera controls. Looking back at it now I think it would be fastest to run to the door and blow up the preppies as they come out the door. But I’m not sure on what I should do during the time before class though.

Q. In segment 22: during the mailman errand: can the package be picked up and the gnome smashed while in the go-kart?

A. Correct. I didn’t think of this; great suggestion for an improvement.

Q. Also in segment 22: why did the runner do the optional 3 paper route mission when it is written in the notes that they are optional and that there are faster money making method such as midget wrestling?

A. I totally forgot that those last 3 paper routes were optional and I only found out after completing the run; when I was perusing my older notes. That’s a big mistake on my part and yes the mission didn’t go too well. However, if the last 3 paper routes are not done, by my quick calculations, I would be missing ~$80 to purchase all the clothing.

I was going to say that there really isn’t much else to do during this part but I just tested and saw that bike races are available during the winter time – I was under the impression they weren’t. (I know mowing grass is definitely not available.) Thus during this ‘wasted time’ I guess I could’ve done some bike races or have completed the crab collection or lost teddy errand.

I also forgot about midget wrestling been a good way to obtain the missing money required to purchase all the clothing – great suggestion. However, time is paused during the betting menu.

On topic of money, I just found out that ~$400 can be obtained during “The Tagging” mission as shown in TheNathanNS video [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0TMuHjC0Yg]here[/url]. I haven’t tested on how to fully optimize this in a run but I think this might be quite useful.
edit: I just tested this and I got a payout of $1000 by tagging the 2nd rooftop tag shown in the video. (It's the one you need to jump across to using the skateboard). However, this adds a bit of time which will involve getting to class a bit late. This is great - some of the clothing can be purchased at an earlier time now and will not have be backtracked to.

Q. Why wasn’t the bandit mask obtained after picking 5 lockers without been detected?

A. I’m pretty sure this is awarded randomly – I haven’t tested this fully.

Q. During the purchasing of clothing; wouldn't looking at the money left be a sufficient indication when you're done?

A. Great suggestion! I did not think of this.

Q. In segment 25: why wasn’t an additional segment used?

A. The go-kart disappears when you load from a save-game. (More precisely, the game world is reset to ‘default’ when the game is loaded.) The segment is long because of this.

Q. In segment 28: do you really need to wait for the orderly before destroying the power source of the statue, during the mission ‘Galloway Away’?

A. Well no… I was been overly cautious during the mission; due to the length of the segment, and if the orderlies hear your slingshot fire they do detect you and kick you out of the grounds. I just tested it now and you can in fact shoot the power source and gnome from outside the fence – I thought the fence was solid. However, the rubber band in the asylum grounds still needs to be collected during this time as this is the only chance to collect it without back tracking (or before entering the asylum during Finding Johnny Vincent).

Q. In segment 30: isn’t there any speed strats that can be used during the football scene during the Big Game mission?

Q. Also in segment 30, why not save after biology 5?

A. As said above, the go-kart will disappear when a save-game is loaded.

Q. In segment 32, it seems a bit of a waste to cut it so close to the start of the afternoon class just because of some additional projectile shots.

A. As mentioned in my notes, I did this in order to be able unlock the green ninja outfit within a reasonable time. I didn’t fully test this but I’m certain if I didn’t do this, I would be a fair margin of projectile hits short at the end of the game.
I’ve found out now, after the completion of the run, that you can use the fire extinguish to quickly rack up the projectile hits. I haven’t fully tested this but it’s not as fast as the spud cannon but it is pretty good.

Q. In segment 32, does the go-kart always despawn after completing “Finding Johnny Vincent” mission?

A. I just tested this some more now. The go-kart disappears if you park it at the front gate where the end mission cut-scene is. But it doesn’t disappear if you park it closer to the tree; out of the zone of the cut-scene. (It’s quite a pain to test.) However, if you do it this way you need to activate the crazy farm errand, straight after the mission, before running towards the go-kart as he will follow you, increasing the distance that the escaped inmates will have to run.
I ran the segment the way I did because it was quickest to me.

Also, "Finding Johnny Vincent" can be completed quite quickly by utilizing the following [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFk9QPU9m2s] route [/url] (thanks to ‘French Toast’). I’ve only found that vid quite recently.

Q. “Why not jump over the fence down to the street after accepting the first errand? Seems faster than going around taking the stairs down.” RE segment 33:

A. I was under the impression you couldn’t. Because if you jump at the far end of the fence there is an invisible wall there but (I found this after I reading your comment) you can jump over the fence closer to the middle. Can’t believe I didn’t think of that.

Q. “That's how I like to see the Math classes done. If the cursor is in the wrong place or there is a small doubt about the correct answer (even though that should obviously never be an issue with some practice before doing attempts), just click on to the next question instead of over thinking it.” (RE: segment 34 during math class 5)

A. I actually planned the ‘misclicks’/wrong answers this way as I thought this was the fastest way to do that class. You need to get 22/24 to pass – I utilize the 2 wrong answers strategically to save time.

Q. In segment 37: why couldn't the go-kart be used during the bike races here as mentioned in the forum notes?

A. I probably did mention that the go-kart can be used during some bike races. But I didn’t mention (which I realized from doing the run) is that the go-kart will despawn on the first time you attempt to do so. I can’t explain why this happens but if you look at the youtube vid [url=https://youtu.be/GWknZpVbYtU] here[/url], I show the different testing that I did; to see if I could use the go-kart during the bike race and if it would be faster or not.

From my testing, even if you do use the go-kart during the race, it will end up been slower than just using the bike. This is because the go-kart randomly flips out at the end of the race (I don’t think the developers intended on the go-kart been used during the race). Additionally, time is lost retrieving the go-kart and positioning it for the next race.

Furthermore, I only found out the trick that I perform in segment 39, involving the go-kart, on the day of the recording. If I didn’t do the trick there, I wouldn’t be able to use the go-kart during the Bullworth Academy bike-race, in the way I do.

Q. “Huge planning mistake at the carnival. The scooter and the poster don't count towards the 100%. That's 95 tickets too many earned. If each round cost ~15 seconds, that's like three and a half minutes lost.” RE: segment 39.

A. I can’t believe I didn’t know that. I wasted so much time on those extra tickets trying to fully optimize when I should earn the prizes. Very unacceptable indeed.

A. I reviewed the segment and I am unsure on what you mean. Perhaps you could provide a timestamp?

Q. Also in segment 40: Would an earlier second volley of itching powder stun lock Edgar again and avoid getting knocked down in both phases?

A. Good suggestion – I’ll need to test this further at a later stage. But I do believe the itching powder gets blocked because the AI is invulnerable at the stage and a second volley probably wouldn't help. Also, Edgar blocks my attacks from the spray can in this way too.

Q. “Mailbox Armageddon” was a bit rough to watch in segment 41.

A. I am dreadful at this mission (as well as the Big Game football scene) – other people make it look so easy. I couldn’t find any speed strats to make it any easier. I tried leaving a bike and the go-kart in the area of the mission and they both disappear during the mission.

[/hidden]

ktwo

2017-07-26 02:18:24 am

It looks like we already have the same view on a lot of the topics, so I'll only comment on a few of them.
Nice new strats you've found from youtube vids. They look pretty cool and definitely open up for some alternatives.

Quote:

Q. Also in segment 12, you don't have to beat the "Boxing: Random Challenge”? Half a minute lost?

A. I did have in my notes on the forum that this side-mission is optional. However, I haven’t doubled checked all the figures (I’m planning on posting a more up-date version soon) and by my recent testing this fight is worth 0.35%.

Ok, I didn't know that. 0.35% is pretty significant. If that's right, it's definitely worth it. Then there must be wrong information in a lot of guides on the net. I'm sure that I've read that it doesn't give any percentage.
It would be cool with an updated spreadsheet. That information is sorely lacking (not only for speedrunning, but also for casual players).

Quote:

Q. In segment 30: isn’t there any speed strats that can be used during the football scene during the Big Game mission?

A. As far as I know the only speed strats that can be used is to run around in circles to avoid the opposing strikers and hope that the incoming footballs don’t get tossed out of the football field or hit the said strikers. I did try testing this mission extensively before it and found no time savers at all; apart from trying to manipulate the football players and try to hit 2 of the football players at the one time (very luck based). I was worn out from testing and just wanted to get to the next segments.

I watched that part in the single segment record. It looks like they mostly tried pushing the incoming football players instead of fighting them. I guess it would help a bit since it looked faster than pulling off some combo to floor them.

Quote:

Q. Also in segment 30, why not save after biology 5?

A. As said above, the go-kart will disappear when a save-game is loaded.

The time line ends in segment 31, where you run around for a while, waiting for the clock. It's not a huge detour to take a new go-kart from outside the garage, so I wouldn't completely rule out moving the last part of segment 30 into 31. But maybe you're right, I don't know. At least it's been mentioned now.

Quote:

Q. “Just a thought that could maybe apply to some other segment(s) as well. Are you sure it's not faster to turn right immediately after the bridge onto the dirt road? It's at least a shorter distance.” RE segment 40.

A. I reviewed the segment and I am unsure on what you mean. Perhaps you could provide a timestamp?

The path that's on the right side at ~5:24. There is also a narrow bridge that goes parallel with the same car bridge. I don't think I saw you use it other than when forced. Have you tried timing both bridges? I saw the single segment run used the small bridge in one of the missions (I don't know which one), so I think it's worth timing out the difference if you haven't already.

[quote]Q. Also in segment 12, you don't have to beat the "Boxing: Random Challenge”? Half a minute lost?

A. I did have in my notes on the forum that this side-mission is optional. However, I haven’t doubled checked all the figures (I’m planning on posting a more up-date version soon) and by my recent testing this fight is worth 0.35%.[/quote]
Ok, I didn't know that. 0.35% is pretty significant. If that's right, it's definitely worth it. Then there must be wrong information in a lot of guides on the net. I'm sure that I've read that it doesn't give any percentage.
It would be cool with an updated spreadsheet. That information is sorely lacking (not only for speedrunning, but also for casual players).

[quote]Q. In segment 30: isn’t there any speed strats that can be used during the football scene during the Big Game mission?

A. As far as I know the only speed strats that can be used is to run around in circles to avoid the opposing strikers and hope that the incoming footballs don’t get tossed out of the football field or hit the said strikers. I did try testing this mission extensively before it and found no time savers at all; apart from trying to manipulate the football players and try to hit 2 of the football players at the one time (very luck based). I was worn out from testing and just wanted to get to the next segments. [/quote]
I watched that part in the single segment record. It looks like they mostly tried pushing the incoming football players instead of fighting them. I guess it would help a bit since it looked faster than pulling off some combo to floor them.

[quote]Q. Also in segment 30, why not save after biology 5?

A. As said above, the go-kart will disappear when a save-game is loaded.[/quote]
The time line ends in segment 31, where you run around for a while, waiting for the clock. It's not a huge detour to take a new go-kart from outside the garage, so I wouldn't completely rule out moving the last part of segment 30 into 31. But maybe you're right, I don't know. At least it's been mentioned now.

[quote]Q. “Just a thought that could maybe apply to some other segment(s) as well. Are you sure it's not faster to turn right immediately after the bridge onto the dirt road? It's at least a shorter distance.” RE segment 40.

A. I reviewed the segment and I am unsure on what you mean. Perhaps you could provide a timestamp?[/quote]
The path that's on the right side at ~5:24. There is also a narrow bridge that goes parallel with the same car bridge. I don't think I saw you use it other than when forced. Have you tried timing both bridges? I saw the single segment run used the small bridge in one of the missions (I don't know which one), so I think it's worth timing out the difference if you haven't already.

SDAVerification

2017-07-26 09:06:19 am

Decision posted.

SDA Forum Index -> Support -> Speedrun Verification -> Bully: Scholarship Edition - July 26, 2017