Bucky O' Hare (NES)

2008-10-27 10:27:43 am

This was one of my favorite NES games as a kid. Has anyone ever attempted a non-TAS of this game? It seems like it would be INSANELY hard to run without save states.

Thread title:

Midori

Edit history:

Midori: 2008-10-30 05:17:53 pm

2008-10-27 11:23:08 am

Damn you tinypic... damn you.

Although I haven't played this game much at all, I think a run would be feasible. The game is hard, but the most parts you die on is due to different "traps" that is easily avoided after you played through the game enough times.

I won't run this game myself, but if someone else would speedrun this I'd watch it.:)

MortyreR45

(user is banned)

MortyreR45

Edit history:

MortyreR45: 2013-05-27 10:09:55 pm

MortyreR45: 2013-05-27 09:04:25 am

2008-10-28 02:57:44 am

I AM FUCKED ANGRY

Yeah, This was one of my first game for the NES system. The game was really hard and I would like watch a run of this game which is handmade and not tas. The problem for me, I have not more a copy from this game and my NES system is crashed and do not more work to play games.

I do like watch a run from this game. yes Smiley

JDHyatt

2008-10-28 09:00:11 am

I'm the guy who complains yet never submits XD

I haven't played this for years, It was a lot like MB3 from what I recall.
(only with passwords)

MASTER-88

2008-10-30 03:23:15 pm

Master-88

I agree. This game is very hard to beat. I am completed that game once. Some levels took hours to beat. Boss fights are hard here. Most boss fights kill you instant hit. This is not very fun on speedruns. +Game is pretty long.

Can anyone even plan speedrun this? Huh?

This game is too hard speedrun without dying. Like lot impossible IMO. But who know there is some near impossible speedruns in SDA, for example that Ghost & goblins both difficult single segment without dying, sounds just as hard as this. Tongue

I hope see this run somedays. I definitely watch it if it done less than 5 deaths. Wink

Sir VG

2008-10-30 03:55:17 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Actually, dying in this game can be to your ADVANTAGE.

Three words: Yellow Planet Glitch.

cyghfer

2010-03-29 08:09:31 pm

So, I'm working on a speedrun of this, played on hard mode.

The earlier posts in this thread seem to be talking about hard mode too, as running the game on normal mode (where hits from most things does not kill you instantly, and you can take dozens of hits throughout each stage) would not be very difficult. I may do it after I complete a hard mode run (taking damage allows a faster run), but after playing this game a few times through, loving it enough to consider it my favorite NES game, and then casually running through it on hard mode (I'd estimate I died around 500 times or so, haha), I became determined to eventually complete a run on hard with no, or at least only one or two, unintentional deaths.

Although it is a fairly long game for an NES platformer, and the levels are strewn with easy deaths waiting to happen, the problem of memorizing all the obstacles and enemy/boss patterns is only a fraction of the run. I've since completed the game on hard mode around 8-10 times and I still die frequently, more often due to luck factors than to execution. But I believe a no-deaths run of this game on hard mode is possible for human play, given a lot of luck and 100% concentration throughout the run (just like GnG, yeah).

If there is any interest in the details of the run, or if someone wants to try running the game themselves, I can list some strategies/timesavers for each level. Any comments/feedback/input would be very appreciated, as I'm fairly new to speedrunning. I'm still working on memorizing all the different character switches needed throughout the run, in terms of progress.

So, I'm working on a speedrun of this, played on hard mode.

The earlier posts in this thread seem to be talking about hard mode too, as running the game on normal mode (where hits from most things does not kill you instantly, and you can take dozens of hits throughout each stage) would not be very difficult. I may do it after I complete a hard mode run (taking damage allows a faster run), but after playing this game a few times through, loving it enough to consider it my favorite NES game, and then casually running through it on hard mode (I'd estimate I died around 500 times or so, haha), I became determined to eventually complete a run on hard with no, or at least only one or two, unintentional deaths.

Although it is a fairly long game for an NES platformer, and the levels are strewn with easy deaths waiting to happen, the problem of memorizing all the obstacles and enemy/boss patterns is only a fraction of the run. I've since completed the game on hard mode around 8-10 times and I still die frequently, more often due to luck factors than to execution. But I believe a no-deaths run of this game on hard mode is possible for human play, given a lot of luck and 100% concentration throughout the run (just like GnG, yeah).

If there is any interest in the details of the run, or if someone wants to try running the game themselves, I can list some strategies/timesavers for each level. Any comments/feedback/input would be very appreciated, as I'm fairly new to speedrunning. I'm still working on memorizing all the different character switches needed throughout the run, in terms of progress.

MASTER-88

2010-03-30 07:09:13 am

Master-88

I am really, really, really interested see run with this game. Im not personally can,t even believe is "no death" run humanly possible even normal mode, because there is very easy die. Many wrong timing jump or shy hit with most enemie kill you instantly, but like Kareshi did his GnG run without deaths i thinks everything is possible if you are crazy enought. There is TAS run

If you mean try reach no death run you are not allowed used death glitch then. Otherwise all is allowed.

Im not are played hard mode. Any difference between normal & hard?

spiralout1123211

2010-03-30 07:29:58 am

YES! I LOVED this game as a kid, but thought I'd never see a run of it on SDA. Will you be using intentional deaths?

cyghfer

Edit history:

cyghfer: 2010-03-30 08:36:03 am

2010-03-30 08:29:59 am

Those who played this game as a kid and found it impossibly hard probably played it so that hard mode was automatically activated - this was a countermeasure by Konami to combat piracy, though I don't really know all the details about that. The TAS's description explains it. In hard mode, any collision with any obstacle automatically kills you. In normal, most collisions only cause one damage (one bar of HP), though some take out multiple bars and spikes, lava, and several other hazards kill you in one hit regardless. The obstacles that pose the most threat during a hard mode run (due to being random and unpredictable) are not a problem in normal mode. There would still be a lot of tricky jumps and many places to die instantly but the constrictions that normal mode presents are much less strenuous.

For this run I use the password 'Hard!' to access hard mode manually. I'm running it on hard to challenge myself and as a tribute to the game. If, in time, it proves to just be too difficult to pull off a good-looking hard run, I'll go back to normal mode.

I've actually talked with the creator of the TAS, AnS, who has answered numerous questions and been quite supportive overall. I use most of the strategies present in the TAS, except those that require impossible manipulation (the vertical moving-platform room in the Red planet) and frame-precision (using select to negate toads spawning from destroyed ice blocks), etc. I use the same planet route and acquire power in essentially the same manner.

I'm aiming for a run with only 2 intentional deaths in order to access the warps on Yellow planet and Red planet seen in the TAS. Skipping the few acts that are skippable is far faster, easier for the runner, and more interesting for viewers, as two of them are autoscrollers. It might need to be discussed whether a run with death warping would be considered a separate category than no-deaths, as each warp (there are only 2 viable ones in the game) only skips 1-2 acts, and the time saved by warping is probably about 6-8 minutes total, just estimating.

I'm playing through the game daily to really engrain every aspect of it in my head. It's slowly coming along!

Those who played this game as a kid and found it impossibly hard probably played it so that hard mode was automatically activated - this was a countermeasure by Konami to combat piracy, though I don't really know all the details about that. The TAS's description explains it. In hard mode, [i]any[/i] collision with any obstacle automatically kills you. In normal, most collisions only cause one damage (one bar of HP), though some take out multiple bars and spikes, lava, and several other hazards kill you in one hit regardless. The obstacles that pose the most threat during a hard mode run (due to being random and unpredictable) are not a problem in normal mode. There would still be a lot of tricky jumps and many places to die instantly but the constrictions that normal mode presents are much less strenuous.

For this run I use the password 'Hard!' to access hard mode manually. I'm running it on hard to challenge myself and as a tribute to the game. If, in time, it proves to just be too difficult to pull off a good-looking hard run, I'll go back to normal mode.

I've actually talked with the creator of the TAS, AnS, who has answered numerous questions and been quite supportive overall. I use most of the strategies present in the TAS, except those that require impossible manipulation (the vertical moving-platform room in the Red planet) and frame-precision (using select to negate toads spawning from destroyed ice blocks), etc. I use the same planet route and acquire power in essentially the same manner.

I'm aiming for a run with only 2 intentional deaths in order to access the warps on Yellow planet and Red planet seen in the TAS. Skipping the few acts that are skippable is far faster, easier for the runner, and more interesting for viewers, as two of them are autoscrollers. It might need to be discussed whether a run with death warping would be considered a separate category than no-deaths, as each warp (there are only 2 viable ones in the game) only skips 1-2 acts, and the time saved by warping is probably about 6-8 minutes total, just estimating.

I'm playing through the game daily to really engrain every aspect of it in my head. It's slowly coming along!

cyghfer

Edit history:

cyghfer: 2010-04-01 02:23:44 pm

2010-04-01 12:25:24 pm

Welp, I can beat hard mode in about an hour now, still dying a fair amount. There are still some acts (that are determinate) where I'm not yet 100% certain on the exact series of inputs, like the vertical act in Red planet and the acts with the moving dragons in Center of Magma Tanker.

In fact, that latter act might end up being the reason I give up on hard mode, as the monkey toads almost always spawn on top of you, and there is nothing you can do about it short of constantly charging up with Jenny, and even then, you have to worry about a couple of the dragon platforms wrapping around and killing you if you don't dispose of the energy ball in time (and it's slower). Occasionally a toad drops down on you when you're jumping up to the platform to the right of the screen! It's tricky, I'll have to experiment more and see if I can increase my chances of survival at all in those acts.

There's also the third-to-last act in the game, the disembodied toad head with the two moving rails, or whatever those are. I've noticed some patterns to his shots but the pattern that is chosen varies, and I'm not sure what causes the variance. Going into the battle without being able to predict shots makes the battle exponentially harder to survive.

Other than the acts mentioned above, I've got the game just about memorized. I'm predicting, though, that it'll be a long while before I get a good run with 2 or less unintentional deaths.

edit: the Jenny tactic for the monkey-toad act works, more or less. I'm only assured a death if they spawn on top of me while I'm in mid-air and the chances of me dying are far less in general.

Welp, I can beat hard mode in about an hour now, still dying a fair amount. There are still some acts (that are determinate) where I'm not yet 100% certain on the exact series of inputs, like the vertical act in Red planet and the acts with the moving dragons in Center of Magma Tanker.

In fact, that latter act might end up being the reason I give up on hard mode, as the monkey toads almost always spawn on top of you, and there is nothing you can do about it short of constantly charging up with Jenny, and even then, you have to worry about a couple of the dragon platforms wrapping around and killing you if you don't dispose of the energy ball in time (and it's slower). Occasionally a toad drops down on you when you're jumping up to the platform to the right of the screen! It's tricky, I'll have to experiment more and see if I can increase my chances of survival at all in those acts.

There's also the third-to-last act in the game, the disembodied toad head with the two moving rails, or whatever those are. I've noticed some patterns to his shots but the pattern that is chosen varies, and I'm not sure what causes the variance. Going into the battle without being able to predict shots makes the battle exponentially harder to survive.

Other than the acts mentioned above, I've got the game just about memorized. I'm predicting, though, that it'll be a long while before I get a good run with 2 or less unintentional deaths.

edit: the Jenny tactic for the monkey-toad act works, more or less. I'm only assured a death if they spawn on top of me while I'm in mid-air and the chances of me dying are far less in general.

cyghfer

2010-04-07 10:24:40 pm

Sorry to triple post, but;

I forgot to post about this earlier. Just want to make sure that the warping is actually allowed. Basically I skip two acts (three screens, specifically) in the Yellow planet and one act in the Red planet. Just watch the TAS: http://tasvideos.org/991M.html (6:39 and 7:56 for the two warps). I'm figuring that the category of the run is 'Hard mode, with deaths.'

This game is too good not to plug (there's a disconcerting lack of general attention to it, not just regarding this forum) - it is VERY similar to Mega Man (and not just derivative - no, it builds marvelously on that series' core features), and four future Treasure employees worked on it. As a '92 release it boasts some of the best technical qualifications of any NES game, especially in the music department. Please, if you like platformers or NES games at all, try this game out. I could even stream me running it if anyone would like to see that.

Also, I just ordered a copy on ebay, so I should start making recorded attempts pretty soon :Z I've been practicing the shit out of Salvage Chute and Center of Magma Tanker and there are now only a handful of spots throughout the entire run that it is more likely than not that I'll die at. Hopefully it'll only be a month or two rather than a year, ha.

Sorry to triple post, but;

I forgot to post about this earlier. Just want to make sure that the warping is actually allowed. Basically I skip two acts (three screens, specifically) in the Yellow planet and one act in the Red planet. Just watch the TAS: http://tasvideos.org/991M.html (6:39 and 7:56 for the two warps). I'm figuring that the category of the run is 'Hard mode, with deaths.'

This game is too good not to plug (there's a disconcerting lack of general attention to it, not just regarding this forum) - it is VERY similar to Mega Man (and not just derivative - no, it builds marvelously on that series' core features), and four future Treasure employees worked on it. As a '92 release it boasts some of the best technical qualifications of any NES game, especially in the music department. Please, if you like platformers or NES games at all, try this game out. I could even stream me running it if anyone would like to see that.

Also, I just ordered a copy on ebay, so I should start making recorded attempts pretty soon :Z I've been practicing the shit out of Salvage Chute and Center of Magma Tanker and there are now only a handful of spots throughout the entire run that it is more likely than not that I'll die at. Hopefully it'll only be a month or two rather than a year, ha.

MASTER-88

2010-04-08 02:16:13 pm

Master-88

Yeah warp is allowed but yeah then category is with deaths and it is seperate category.

I am also interested see no death run in this game especially on hard mode, its maybe even harder to make because there is more acts.

Quote:

Also, I just ordered a copy on ebay, so I should start making recorded attempts pretty soon :Z I've been practicing the shit out of Salvage Chute and Center of Magma Tanker and there are now only a handful of spots throughout the entire run that it is more likely than not that I'll die at. Hopefully it'll only be a month or two rather than a year, ha.

Awesome to hear you seriously started recorded that game. I´ll love see your runs. This game is freaking good, but as well freaking hard to beat without dying.

cyghfer

2010-04-08 03:00:44 pm

I will probably do the other potential categories eventually, yeah. The hard, no-deaths 'route' would be almost identical and running normal mode should be a cakewalk compared to hard mode.

The only thing I'm still apprehensive about is my button-mashing ability Undecided

Three of the bosses could be sped up if I could only shoot faster. Especially the Green planet boss - if I could shoot maybe one or two more bullets per second I could probably save 10 or so seconds on him. Perhaps I'll be able to mash faster with an actual NES pad, as the DS Lite isn't the most suitable thing for that Tongue

Thanks for the support M88, it's nice to work on an obscure game and know someone wants to see it Smiley

Josh the Funkdoc

2010-04-08 04:33:59 pm

spread the dirt to the populace

sounds great, and yes you definitely should stream!!!

cyghfer

2010-04-09 07:52:38 pm

Ah, well, I lied about streaming actually Lips Sealed

I guess it took knowing a game inside-out and being used to playing it with only normal system lag to truly notice how much more lag emulators have. I don't have a capture card so I can't stream me playing from a console, and I can't play Bucky with the amount of lag any emulator throws at you.

However, after I receive my cart in the mail, I will try to upload a decent-looking run amidst the surely countless attempts I'll be making.

MASTER-88

2010-04-16 01:08:16 pm

Master-88

Any new with your Bucky o hare run?

Can you make some video clips in youtube? Its might be awesome. Wink

cyghfer

2010-04-16 03:05:44 pm

I've ran through the game a few times on NES Cheesy

The bad thing is that the ROM I was using has some subtle differences from the console version. The input times, falling velocity, and other things seem to be very slightly different to my perception. So I'll need to practice more to get natural at the real thing. Once I get a sub-30min run recorded I will definitely upload it to youtube. Smiley

MASTER-88

2010-04-16 03:28:24 pm

Master-88

Quote from cygher:

I've ran through the game a few times on NES Cheesy

The bad thing is that the ROM I was using has some subtle differences from the console version. The input times, falling velocity, and other things seem to be very slightly different to my perception. So I'll need to practice more to get natural at the real thing. Once I get a sub-30min run recorded I will definitely upload it to youtube. Smiley

Yeah i agree this console differensce. When i first time played Bionic commando on my emulator i find it easier than my console. But a today i liked play that game on console more and its really much easier. Yeah its very different controlls. I agree 100% with you. But when you learn play that on console you will be master.

Yeah and hell yeah i wanted see your run. If not in SDA but at least in youtube. Wink

cyghfer

Edit history:

cyghfer: 2010-04-18 08:23:11 pm

2010-04-18 01:02:52 pm

Well, about 95% of my attempts end during the green planet. Act 2 is so hard to do quickly (and easy to screw up) and I can pull off the pixel-perfect jump in act 3 maybe 15% of the time. Looks like it'll be awhile before I get a run completed, unfortunately.

edit: I'm only going after the jump in act 3 selectively now, it's just too aggravating to try every attempt. And I just lost my first of undoubtedly many runs to blue planet act 6 d:

Specter55393

2011-02-27 10:59:32 pm

I wish I still had this game on my NES I only have the ROM and emulator now but I had this game and TMNT III Manhattan Project, I was at one point able to beat this game fairly quickly (Though a true time escapes me) I would love to speed run this game if I had it I'm pretty sure that I never beat it without dieing mostly because of those stupid slugs inside the mother ship GOD I HATED THOSE lol. Well I hope someone puts up a non TAS run of this game, even though TAS is entertaining I find them less appealing.

Specter55393

2011-03-17 05:51:37 pm

I know this is an older thread but I was hoping to revamp it, currently I am working on a no death run through this game (that means no Yellow/Red planet glitches. I do not own the cartridge for it yet but I am gonna get it soon, I am running on an Emulator on my PSP currently with the frames set to 59. The only place that I consistently die on is the frame perfect jump on act 3 of the green planet but I believe a sub 30 minute run can be accomplished. I'm gonna keep trying for now on my emulator and when I get the cartridge I'm gonna switch it up and hopefully get a good run for submission. Anyone who has any tips and pointers for the frame perfect jump I will gladly take them.

cyghfer

Edit history:

cyghfer: 2011-03-17 06:01:22 pm

2011-03-17 06:00:29 pm

'frame perfect jump' is actually a misnomer. it's a pixel-perfect jump, but the catch is that bucky moves 2 pixels per frame of directional input, so sometimes you literally have a 0% chance of making the jump, depending on bucky's exact pixel coordinate. AnS, the producer of this game's TAS, told me that he shoots downward while jumping forward in order to get bucky in the right pixel coordinate, but this doesn't really work for me and i haven't found a consistent strategy to pull the jump off. if you're going to go for it, good luck.

are you going to be running on normal or Hard! mode? i'm sure you've read the rest of the thread but i still wholeheartedly intend to go for a Hard! w/ deaths run (for the red/yellow glitches), when i have the time. in any case, glad to see another person giving this awesome game attention. if you want to discuss strats or whatever just pm me or post here, i basically hammered out what my strats will be for the Hard! run months ago, and i could probably be of help for a normal run. good luck!

'frame perfect jump' is actually a misnomer. it's a pixel-perfect jump, but the catch is that bucky moves 2 pixels per frame of directional input, so sometimes you literally have a 0% chance of making the jump, depending on bucky's exact pixel coordinate. AnS, the producer of this game's TAS, told me that he shoots downward while jumping forward in order to get bucky in the right pixel coordinate, but this doesn't really work for me and i haven't found a consistent strategy to pull the jump off. if you're going to go for it, good luck.

are you going to be running on normal or Hard! mode? i'm sure you've read the rest of the thread but i still wholeheartedly intend to go for a Hard! w/ deaths run (for the red/yellow glitches), when i have the time. in any case, glad to see another person giving this awesome game attention. if you want to discuss strats or whatever just pm me or post here, i basically hammered out what my strats will be for the Hard! run months ago, and i could probably be of help for a normal run. good luck!

Specter55393

2011-03-17 06:23:33 pm

Oh I haven't played Hard Mode since I thought my first copy of the game was broken haha, seriously though I hope you can pull it off you would be considered a legend in my eyes if you can get it, thanks for clarifying jump for me too, I guess I'll just keep practicing that part and hopefully I can get it consistently. My route is pretty much the same as AnS TAS except I'm thinking of switching up Yellow/Red (I haven't found a reason to use either Wily or Dead-Eye at that point however Wily's shot makes the Red planet boss a little easier to kill if you miss Jenny's Charge beam so I've found.

My biggest concern is the 3rd level in the mothership where floors open and close I haven't been able to time it perfectly yet and end up having to wait for it. And I'm practicing the bug room a lot too in hopes that I can find a quick route through without getting hit too much.

Specter55393

2011-03-22 12:06:13 am

Well I'm getting better at this game daily, hopefully soon I will have video/capture equipment (If anyone knows how to do that it would save me a ton of time) so that I can stream and get the video jitters out. Thanks Cyghfer for the info on the double damage with Willy on the ship and Air Marshal. I've gotten my run down to around 30 minutes without dieing. I know I can do better though.