Breath of Fire

2009-06-12 10:15:17 am

Just call me the cynicism machine

Quote from Abazaba:

I've got the SNES copy. When is the earliest you can do this?

Probably Winlan or Tantar. You just need to find something worth over 2000GP in Winlan or 1200GP in Tantar, whichever happens first.

__sdfg

2009-06-12 04:57:06 pm

D:

The LongSD sells for 1250 GP in Tantar, which should do it. If you don't feel like messing around to buy it in Nanai, you can pick one up from the forest fortress.

I was going to suggest getting a SilkGN from Romero (it sells for 1400 GP), but then I noticed that the Tantar weapons shop doesn't sell any armor for Nina.

Chromium

2009-06-14 12:36:01 pm

I am going to test it out on my SNES tonight, just to make sure it does in fact work unless somebody has already tested it out and found one way or the other yea or nay.

I agree, GBA and SNES need separate categories. The dashing ability alone in the GBA version should be enough - I also found the GBA versioin quite a bit easier to beat.

Abazaba

Edit history:

Abazaba: 2009-06-15 09:41:35 am

2009-06-15 08:13:14 am

Sorry so late. I tried this already in TANTAR. I had 0g, I had the lngsd equipped, attempted to trade for the sabre. She said she would do it, then I selected no...

Still 0g. Maybe I'm not doing it right? Maybe this is a GBA only exploit? I don't have a copy on GBA so I can't confirm.

mikwuyma

2009-06-15 08:26:30 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

I don't know if you guys ignored my last post saying "if it's true", and then you guys proved it, or if you're just agreeing with me, but let me spell it out for you.

THE SNES AND GBA VERSIONS ARE SEPARATE CATEGORIES

Have a nice day.

Chromium

2009-06-15 10:39:21 am

Quote from mikwuyma:

I don't know if you guys ignored my last post saying "if it's true", and then you guys proved it, or if you're just agreeing with me, but let me spell it out for you.

THE SNES AND GBA VERSIONS ARE SEPARATE CATEGORIES

Have a nice day.

Perhaps if you'd sang us a song, we'd have remembered!

Abazaba

2009-09-23 02:51:09 pm

I am taking this up again. Just posting some more timing numbers in here.

Intro Save ~ 5:30
After Frog Save ~ 14:00
After Knight Save ~ 25:00
After Wizard save ~ 50:00
After General save ~ 62:00
After Wisp save ~ 82:00
After GSR save ~ 92:00
After Water cave save ~ 106:00
After Gremlin and Talon save ~ 128:00

These are all just estimates, and more of 'times to beat' than anything else.

__sdfg

2009-09-25 06:59:20 pm

D:

Glad to see you're still working on this.

I got burned out a while back when I realized that to do a segmented run justice, I'd need to time several different potential strategies throughout the game, just because the dearth of information on the game's mechanics makes it difficult to say, "This is the fastest method," with the degree of certainty that I want.

Also, I need to stop doing things like moving, and being in graduate school, and impulse-buying copies of Lufia...

DoubleThink

2009-09-25 09:42:13 pm

There's a word for that

Oh cool a bump. Time for

HUGE POST INCOMING

Well maybe not that big ._.

First of all this is new. This is maybe the most important bit:
The following charts depict the base amount by which statistics are increased
at level up. If the value is greater than zero, there is a fifty-fifty chance
that it will be increased by one, and a one-in-four chance that it will be
decreased by the same amount instead.
So there's your stat randomness. There's also a TAS ongoing at TASVideos, which might also be useful. For example, after beating the Knight, he saves all offensive items he gets for Talon, because even with a LongSD and the Ring Ryu can't really hurt it that much. Might help raise counter damage, but that's about it.

Oh, and I know how physical damage works now! Basically it's linear (double the Attack means double the damage), reduced by a multiplier based on Defence (this is a bit sketchy, but higher Def = good, especially at low values), as well as a multiplier based on how far you've gone in the game. This explains why hitting enemies at the end of the game does 30x as much damage despite having only 3x as much Attack, for example. It's increased at certain stages throughout the game, but it shouldn't be that hard to figure out; basically, if you know how much damage one character does (not counting elemental/weapon type weaknesses), you can figure out how much every character does. This also means that Atk-Up's +50 to Attack is very large early-game, pretty much doubling Ryu's damage initially. Physical damage also varies between -20%/-10%/0%/10%/20%, tending towards the smaller variations.

Other things strategy/item wise:
-The General's first form has exactly 160 HP, so two Fries (hah) will take him out, even if it looks like they won't. I doubt the other two can rack up 80 damage in one turn, so only having Bo attack there might be the fastest course of action.
-The Dress that Nina starts with sucks, HARD. It has 25 weight, which really mucks up Nina's ability to outspeed things. It can be traded right away in Windia for a SuedeGN at no loss of cash; this will make her faster than the reapers, as well as Bowmen and Lancers. If that doesn't matter much, she can get a Gown in Romero if she can wait that long, giving her another 8 Def and 5 Act.
-There's a hidden SteelBW in Agua, which will give Bo an extra 21 Attack over the BronzeBW, and is his best weapon available up until Prima.
-The TAS demonstrates that encounters are done Pokemon-style; that is, there's a chance of an encounter every step/after a few, so waiting for the RNG to change makes it possible to avoid any battles. This isn't remotely worth it in a real run of course, but I thought I'd mention it, because all future BoF's aside from DQ use a step counter.
-Gobi might actually be somewhat useful right after you get him; his underwater spells are water/light element, which Morteo is weak to. EbbX will hit him for 75, and if he can get a quick level, Eco will hit for 105. Tested it, it works.

That's all I can remember now, most of this thinking was done a couple of months ago >_>

Oh cool a bump. Time for

[size=32pt]HUGE POST INCOMING[/size]

Well maybe not that big ._.

First of all [url=http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/563529/57133]this[/url] is new. This is maybe the most important bit:
[i]The following charts depict the base amount by which statistics are increased
at level up. If the value is greater than zero, there is a fifty-fifty chance
that it will be increased by one, and a one-in-four chance that it will be
decreased by the same amount instead.[/i]
So there's your stat randomness. There's also a TAS ongoing at TASVideos, which might also be useful. For example, after beating the Knight, he saves all offensive items he gets for Talon, because even with a LongSD and the Ring Ryu can't really hurt it that much. Might help raise counter damage, but that's about it.

Oh, and I know how physical damage works now! Basically it's linear (double the Attack means double the damage), reduced by a multiplier based on Defence (this is a bit sketchy, but higher Def = good, especially at low values), as well as a multiplier based on how far you've gone in the game. This explains why hitting enemies at the end of the game does 30x as much damage despite having only 3x as much Attack, for example. It's increased at certain stages throughout the game, but it shouldn't be that hard to figure out; basically, if you know how much damage one character does (not counting elemental/weapon type weaknesses), you can figure out how much every character does. This also means that Atk-Up's +50 to Attack is very large early-game, pretty much doubling Ryu's damage initially. Physical damage also varies between -20%/-10%/0%/10%/20%, tending towards the smaller variations.

Other things strategy/item wise:
-The General's first form has exactly 160 HP, so two Fries (hah) will take him out, even if it looks like they won't. I doubt the other two can rack up 80 damage in one turn, so only having Bo attack there might be the fastest course of action.
-The Dress that Nina starts with sucks, HARD. It has 25 weight, which really mucks up Nina's ability to outspeed things. It can be traded right away in Windia for a SuedeGN at no loss of cash; this will make her faster than the reapers, as well as Bowmen and Lancers. If that doesn't matter much, she can get a Gown in Romero if she can wait that long, giving her another 8 Def and 5 Act.
-There's a hidden SteelBW in Agua, which will give Bo an extra 21 Attack over the BronzeBW, and is his best weapon available up until Prima.
-The TAS demonstrates that encounters are done Pokemon-style; that is, there's a chance of an encounter every step/after a few, so waiting for the RNG to change makes it possible to avoid any battles. This isn't remotely worth it in a real run of course, but I thought I'd mention it, because all future BoF's aside from DQ use a step counter.
-Gobi might actually be somewhat useful right after you get him; his underwater spells are water/light element, which Morteo is weak to. EbbX will hit him for 75, and if he can get a quick level, Eco will hit for 105. Tested it, it works.

That's all I can remember now, most of this thinking was done a couple of months ago >_>

Enhasa

2009-09-25 11:15:43 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Great post, good info. I knew about the DQ-style every tile random encounters and that starting with 2 they switched to FF-style step counter. As well as the dress thing.

When does the multiplier change in the game? Does it have anything to do with when the overworld music changes?

Quote from __sdfg:

impulse-buying copies of Lufia...

Sounds like a great idea to me. Wink

Axel Ryman

2009-09-26 12:00:30 am

We all scream for Eyes Cream

I noticed 2 things wrong with the TAS.

1: Named the Hero a, when if you immediately End after starting a new game, the Hero isn't given a name.

2: Its not done yet. Tongue

Number 2 isn't really valid of course, but 1 is just something I noticed.

DoubleThink

Edit history:

DoubleThink: 2009-09-26 04:01:08 am

2009-09-26 12:36:54 am

There's a word for that

By DQ I meant Dragon Quarter >_> They're more "battle occurs X steps after last battle" rather than "battle occurs after X stepcount is reached".

I didn't want to link the post I got the physical damage info from because it was from some silly character battle thing -_- Now I can't even find it. Curse you Meeple...

It was sort-of half inaccurate anyway, it had Mogu as being the weakest attacker based on tests against Myria without taking into account the 50% bonus many best weapons give vs demonic enemies... I think. The overworld theme only changes twice, while the damage multiplier changes about 6-8 times. Like I said it should be fairly easy to notice when it happens and/or it shouldn't matter. The one example it gave was of Sara taking about 75% as much damage as Zog does. Zog has 200 Def, Sara has 220... again, I'm not sure how accurate it is.

Physical attacks start to become more powerful through the later middle part of the game, mainly after the second dragon spells are gotten, oddly enough. There are a lot of low-Def bosses in that part, in particular the K.Roaches, although there are a couple before that, like Grimfowl and the SlimeX. Having some good weapons there will be very helpful; at least a SpineHR for Ox will be a big help, although it's danged expensive at 27k, it should be enough for the rest of the game. I'm still not sure how Karn's transformations work, although Novalia Spirit said this:
The only statistic that changes is Karn's HP, which is simply multiplied by the number of characters used in the fusion, including Karn himself; therefore, in all cases except Puka, Karn's HP is tripled. While the HP gained at level up is added to the total, it does not go through the multiplication process, so it is probably best to have Karn revert and fuse again whenever he gains a level.
Guess the damage boost is just another straight-up multiplier then, same as the damage boost that morphed Karn takes from certain attacks.
*test*
Okay, looks like Shin's multiplier is 2x. That means Karn is also a go for weapons. The Tri-DR from Prima is his best weapon for a long time, and his relatively low base Atk combined with the multiplier means he'll benefit most from an Atk-Up (+100 effectively!). With Karn fused, Ryu is the only other attacker until Mogu shows up; luckily the B.Rang is mandatory before Grimfowl, combined with the little boost from the Ring should mean he's hitting decently. The DragonSD (and DragonHT) can be gotten before the second dragon transformations, and quickly thanks to Warp. Since they're being gotten anyway, may as well get them as early as possible Cheesy

That should cover most everything until after HornToad.

EDIT: Oh right, crit chance! If I remember anything at all: Fate is divided by 2 and the remainder is dropped, giving the chance of a critical /256. When a character is low on health, Fate is automatically set to 128 (1/4 chance)... even if it was higher at first. That's really the only way to hope for crits early-game, because Ryu's Luck starts very low and Bo's is never very good.

By DQ I meant Dragon Quarter >_> They're more "battle occurs X steps after last battle" rather than "battle occurs after X stepcount is reached".

I didn't want to link the post I got the physical damage info from because it was from some silly character battle thing -_- Now I can't even find it. Curse you Meeple...

It was sort-of half inaccurate anyway, it had Mogu as being the weakest attacker based on tests against Myria without taking into account the 50% bonus many best weapons give vs demonic enemies... I think. The overworld theme only changes twice, while the damage multiplier changes about 6-8 times. Like I said it should be fairly easy to notice when it happens and/or it shouldn't matter. The one example it gave was of Sara taking about 75% as much damage as Zog does. Zog has 200 Def, Sara has 220... again, I'm not sure how accurate it is.

Physical attacks start to become more powerful through the later middle part of the game, mainly [i]after[/i] the second dragon spells are gotten, oddly enough. There are a lot of low-Def bosses in that part, in particular the K.Roaches, although there are a couple before that, like Grimfowl and the SlimeX. Having some good weapons there will be very helpful; at least a SpineHR for Ox will be a big help, although it's danged expensive at 27k, it should be enough for the rest of the game. I'm still not sure how Karn's transformations work, although Novalia Spirit said this:
[i]The only statistic that changes is Karn's HP, which is simply multiplied by the number of characters used in the fusion, including Karn himself; therefore, in all cases except Puka, Karn's HP is tripled. While the HP gained at level up is added to the total, it does not go through the multiplication process, so it is probably best to have Karn revert and fuse again whenever he gains a level.[/i]
Guess the damage boost is just another straight-up multiplier then, same as the damage boost that morphed Karn takes from certain attacks.
*test*
Okay, looks like Shin's multiplier is 2x. That means Karn is also a go for weapons. The Tri-DR from Prima is his best weapon for a long time, and his relatively low base Atk combined with the multiplier means he'll benefit most from an Atk-Up (+100 effectively!). With Karn fused, Ryu is the only other attacker until Mogu shows up; luckily the B.Rang is mandatory before Grimfowl, combined with the little boost from the Ring should mean he's hitting decently. The DragonSD (and DragonHT) can be gotten before the second dragon transformations, and quickly thanks to Warp. Since they're being gotten anyway, may as well get them as early as possible :D That should cover most everything until after HornToad.

EDIT: Oh right, crit chance! If I remember anything at all: Fate is divided by 2 and the remainder is dropped, giving the chance of a critical /256. When a character is low on health, Fate is automatically set to 128 (1/4 chance)... even if it was higher at first. That's really the only way to hope for crits early-game, because Ryu's Luck starts very low and Bo's is never very good.

__sdfg

2009-09-26 08:15:07 am

D:

Yay, information is being generated faster than I can reply to it.

I did a Kinda Scientific Test a few months back attempting to figure out how the damage mechanics work, and reached conclusions similar to what you're posting:

At any one particular point in the game, the damage that a character does scales linearly with their ATK.
DEF has a really strange interpretation. If your ATK is high relative to the enemy's DEF, the damage seems to scale linearly-ish. If your ATK is low, however, small increases in the enemy's DEF will cause your damage to plummet. I tried running all of the regression equations that my calculator would give me on it, and wasn't able to find anything that modeled it correctly. My guess is that the game has a few different multiplier setups that it chooses between based on either the DEF itself or how your ATK compares to it.
The damage done by Karn's fused forms is dependent only on Karn's ATK. At least, I tried changing the equipment on the other members of the fusion, and it didn't make any difference. Doof is actually very slightly stronger than Puka, but Puka has two different ways to do critical hits (Slam vs. rolling attack), and the potential to go double-critical. It would be really awesome if there were some way to make Puka roll more often, but I'm no ROM hacker...

The thing about the damage changing as you advance through the game is completely new to me, however. I will have to make a note somewhere to watch out for that.

Also, when doing my earlier test-play through the game, I found that Ryu almost always did more damage as a dragon than not. Shin is really useful (possibly because I took a detour for the IcyDR... still gotta figure out somehow if that & the LifeAR are worth the 3 minutes they add to the run >_>), but Ryu is not. You're right that there are some low-DEF enemies at that stage of the game, but because I was perpetually under-leveled, it wasn't enough to make attacking the more attractive option. I did find the B.Rang to be helpful against SlimeX and the K.Roaches simply because it did decent-enough damage to all enemies at once, but I am unsure if it's worth adding another >2 minutes to the run to pick the thing up.

And the fact that you have to time every battle with every possible combination of weapons to decide on a strategy is why I got burned out. Sad

Yay, information is being generated faster than I can reply to it.

I did a Kinda Scientific Test a few months back attempting to figure out how the damage mechanics work, and reached conclusions similar to what you're posting:
[list]
[li]At any one particular point in the game, the damage that a character does scales linearly with their ATK.[/li]
[li]DEF has a really strange interpretation.  If your ATK is high relative to the enemy's DEF, the damage seems to scale linearly-ish.  If your ATK is low, however, small increases in the enemy's DEF will cause your damage to plummet.  I tried running all of the regression equations that my calculator would give me on it, and wasn't able to find anything that modeled it correctly.  My guess is that the game has a few different multiplier setups that it chooses between based on either the DEF itself or how your ATK compares to it.[/li]
[li]The damage done by Karn's fused forms is dependent only on Karn's ATK.  At least, I tried changing the equipment on the other members of the fusion, and it didn't make any difference.  Doof is actually very slightly stronger than Puka, but Puka has two different ways to do critical hits (Slam vs. rolling attack), and the potential to go double-critical.  It would be really awesome if there were some way to make Puka roll more often, but I'm no ROM hacker...[/li]
[/list]

The thing about the damage changing as you advance through the game is completely new to me, however.  I will have to make a note somewhere to watch out for that.

Also, when doing my earlier test-play through the game, I found that Ryu almost always did more damage as a dragon than not.  Shin is really useful (possibly because I took a detour for the IcyDR... still gotta figure out somehow if that & the LifeAR are worth the 3 minutes they add to the run >_>), but Ryu is not.  You're right that there are some low-DEF enemies at that stage of the game, but because I was perpetually under-leveled, it wasn't enough to make attacking the more attractive option.  I [i]did[/i] find the B.Rang to be helpful against SlimeX and the K.Roaches simply because it did decent-enough damage to all enemies at once, but I am unsure if it's worth adding another >2 minutes to the run to pick the thing up.

And the fact that you have to time every battle with every possible combination of weapons to decide on a strategy is why I got burned out. :(

DoubleThink

2009-09-26 01:01:28 pm

There's a word for that

Quote from __sdfg:

Also, when doing my earlier test-play through the game, I found that Ryu almost always did more damage as a dragon than not. ... but Ryu is not. You're right that there are some low-DEF enemies at that stage of the game, but because I was perpetually under-leveled, it wasn't enough to make attacking the more attractive option. I did find the B.Rang to be helpful against SlimeX and the K.Roaches simply because it did decent-enough damage to all enemies at once, but I am unsure if it's worth adding another >2 minutes to the run to pick the thing up.

The B.Rang is a mandatory story element isn't it? To get the old weapons guy to do something or other? Otherwise that's a bit of a bummer Sad

Still, if Ryu can do nearly as much with the DragonSD as in dragon form then he'll save time on damage animations, and Atk-Up is still an option, since it's quick to use and Ryu will still have second priority after Karn. I can also see Mrbl1 use being... useful somewhere, provided you can buy them with the cash you don't have >_>

No, I don't know why I'm still up at 5 in the morning. I'm not making a habit out of it, that's for sure x_x

[quote="__sdfg"]
Also, when doing my earlier test-play through the game, I found that Ryu almost always did more damage as a dragon than not.  ...  but Ryu is not.  You're right that there are some low-DEF enemies at that stage of the game, but because I was perpetually under-leveled, it wasn't enough to make attacking the more attractive option.  I [i]did[/i] find the B.Rang to be helpful against SlimeX and the K.Roaches simply because it did decent-enough damage to all enemies at once, but I am unsure if it's worth adding another >2 minutes to the run to pick the thing up.[/quote]The B.Rang is a mandatory story element isn't it? To get the old weapons guy to do something or other? Otherwise that's a bit of a bummer :( Still, if Ryu can do [i]nearly[/i] as much with the DragonSD as in dragon form then he'll save time on damage animations, and Atk-Up is still an option, since it's quick to use and Ryu will still have second priority after Karn. I can also see Mrbl1 use being... useful somewhere, provided you can buy them with the cash you don't have >_>

No, I don't know why I'm still up at 5 in the morning. I'm not making a habit out of it, that's for sure x_x

__sdfg

2009-09-26 03:27:11 pm

D:

No, you need to talk to the weapons guy to get the idea to throw the GrimFowl egg into Nabal. If you have the broken B.Rang on you, he'll say something about it and how you should go get it fixed, but I don't think it's a requirement.

Axel Ryman

2009-09-26 04:32:08 pm

We all scream for Eyes Cream

IIRC, he wants to see the B. Rang first before giving you the tip for the GrimFowl.

__sdfg

Edit history:

__sdfg: 2009-09-26 05:45:20 pm

2009-09-26 05:17:08 pm

D:

Really? I'd always thought it was an optional thing that you'd want to grab during a natural run of the game. As a result, though, I don't think I've ever had a playthrough where I didn't get it. Time to pull out the ol' savestates...

EDIT: Okay, all of you are right, and I am a liar and a fool: "Collecting weapons is my hobby, but I've never seen a B.Rang." That makes planning easier.

Enhasa

2009-09-26 10:28:09 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote from DoubleThink:

By DQ I meant Dragon Quarter >_>

I know you meant Dragon Quarter, and I meant Dragon Quest. I thought about how it could be confusing, but I didn't bother writing it out because I figured the context was enough. Tongue

I should have though, highly confusing.

Quote from DoubleThink:

I didn't want to link the post I got the physical damage info from because it was from some silly character battle thing -_- Now I can't even find it.

Try RPGDL forums, it was probably there if anywhere.

DoubleThink

2009-09-28 07:52:53 am

There's a word for that

Oh look at that. I was wrong about Zog vs Sara Defence, that was actually Attack. Good luck sifting through that and figuring out what's accurate >_> I was right about the 50% multiplier of Tyr for starters. And no wonder I got confused calling her Myria... what is this, the not-evil version? <_<

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2009-09-28 02:14:49 pm

2009-09-28 01:49:55 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I remember someone with a low postcount made a thread in gaming discussion once, posting a link to RPGDL for data and everyone laughed him away, even though they tend to have the best data around. It was pretty sickening. Some of our regulars are group-thinky attack dogs for some reason, same thing happens whenever anyone mentions TG. I dunno, I only visit a couple sites on the internet, but I get the impression everyone is like this, heh.

Of course, I never remember to check RPGDL either. But I haven't run anything where there's been stuff available and I really needed to look at it yet I guess. Bookmarking now though.

I don't think anyone could possibly get confused if you said Myria for Tyr or Deis for Bleu or something, don't worry about it.

Edit: Ok, was just poking around. Isn't as useful as it could be (besides even their "reasonable" levels being way too much for speedrunning, everyone is also evaluated in terms of duels out of context, which is very different from a party member in context). Still required reading for anyone running a covered game though.

I remember someone with a low postcount made a thread in gaming discussion once, posting a link to RPGDL for data and everyone laughed him away, even though they tend to have the best data around. It was pretty sickening. Some of our regulars are group-thinky attack dogs for some reason, same thing happens whenever anyone mentions TG. I dunno, I only visit a couple sites on the internet, but I get the impression everyone is like this, heh.

Of course, I never remember to check RPGDL either. But I haven't run anything where there's been stuff available and I really needed to look at it yet I guess. Bookmarking now though.

I don't think anyone could possibly get confused if you said Myria for Tyr or Deis for Bleu or something, don't worry about it.

Edit: Ok, was just poking around. Isn't as useful as it could be (besides even their "reasonable" levels being way too much for speedrunning, everyone is also evaluated in terms of duels out of context, which is very different from a party member in context). Still required reading for anyone running a covered game though.

Abazaba

2009-09-29 09:58:05 am

Just a couple of notes.

Some of the strategies being listed here will not work due to the low level of the run. For example, there really is no point to the Lngsd because Ryu will never attack with it ever. He is either using the rang for packs, feeding Bo Acorns, or using the EKey (even at Talon).

So far, I have run the game through the Crypt, and I have only leveled up on regular mobs 2 times (Both with Ryu at the very beginning). And also, given the low levels, Ryu is unable to survive the Gremlin fight. No way. And you need to use two Life2's during the second phase most likely. Sucks, but it's true.

Also, all Cures need to be collected and sold in order to spend the least amount of time in Auria. Just FYI. MDrop doesn't hurt either.

These are the guides that I have been using. http://novaliaspirit.99k.org/bof/docs.html

I'm still looking for a GOOD walkthrough, if anyone wants to recommend one. I checked out the RPGDL. The site is accurate, but most info is duplicate of the other guides. I do like the pics though. Heh.

Can someone link the TAS? I'd like to see it too.

Just a couple of notes.

Some of the strategies being listed here will not work due to the low level of the run.  For example, there really is no point to the Lngsd because Ryu will never attack with it ever.  He is either using the rang for packs, feeding Bo Acorns, or using the EKey (even at Talon).

So far, I have run the game through the Crypt, and I have only leveled up on regular mobs 2 times (Both with Ryu at the very beginning).  And also, given the low levels, Ryu is unable to survive the Gremlin fight.  No way.  And you need to use two Life2's during the second phase most likely.  Sucks, but it's true.

Also, all Cures need to be collected and sold in order to spend the least amount of time in Auria.  Just FYI.  MDrop doesn't hurt either.

These are the guides that I have been using.  http://novaliaspirit.99k.org/bof/docs.html

I'm still looking for a GOOD walkthrough, if anyone wants to recommend one.  I checked out the RPGDL.  The site is accurate, but most info is duplicate of the other guides.  I do like the pics though.  Heh.

Can someone link the TAS?  I'd like to see it too.

Enhasa

2009-09-29 12:45:21 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

The funny thing is that the data included in English-language guides like at gamefaqs tend to come directly from RPGDL (that, and print strategy guides). If all you want is the info though, it's not like it matters which is the chicken and which is the egg.

Here is the thread with the TAS (current is top of page 2). Judging by the quality of that thread and some of the posters in it (you can probably figure out what I mean without naming names), I wouldn't hold my breath on the WIP being super high quality, but who knows, I haven't watched it. Could give you some ideas anyway.

BTW ask if you need any help watching the WIP.

Abazaba

2009-09-29 03:07:13 pm

Yeah, I'm not going to pretend I'm very tech savvy when it comes to this stuff. Have no idea how to watch this. Huh?

Any help is appreciated.

Instead of double posting, I'll just edit. Someone mentioned something about a possible grinding area early on in the game and strategies for that area. Might have been Axel? If someone wants to expand on that I'd be glad to hear it, as it could potentially end up being faster. However, my times listed above are the ones with no leveling except on boss fights.

Enhasa

2009-09-30 01:31:32 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Note: I have not tried the below on this particular movie. The same concept always applies though, ask if it doesn't work.

Get this emulator. Then get the rom from the internet. I'm thinking of this magic word "emucation" for some reason, ask google what it is. Tongue

Also, when faced with a choice, take the one that is excited[!] Third thing you need is the smv movie file. Unzip the emulator zip and the rom zip. Now open the emulator and open the rom using the File menu. Then File menu again for "replay" or something like that, open the smv, and watch away. Also, you can look at the key shortcuts or set them in the options. Then you can do stuff like watch in super slow motion or use savestates to watch some parts over again, if you want.

__sdfg

2009-09-30 08:10:11 pm

D:

Watched the TAS... only noticed a couple things I hadn't thought of before:

The runner lets Nina and Sr-1 die against Morte and Mortea, so that the second part of the Wizard fight ends immediately. I don't think that the runner's overall strategy is necessarily the fastest (more on that in a second), but I can see it being helpful to have at least one of them die in advance. Waiting for the Wizard to Petrify you to death kinda sucks.
I hadn't noticed that the Cleansing Water lady (the one you need to talk to before the old woman will move the grave) is in the front of Romero if you enter during the day. Oops.

Apart from that, there are a couple sub-optimal path choices, and I don't think the runner collects nearly enough items to get through Auria without doing the fairy sidequest. Maybe the runner knows something that I don't. :|

Also, one other thing I noticed: on the way into Karma, you can pick up a B.Stn and a C.Stn conveniently. The TAS runner used them on Talon. IMO you're better off using them on Mortea. I did a couple rough timings in an emulator, and using them on Mortea saved me around 40 seconds vs. having Nina E.Key and the soldiers attack, whereas using them on Talon or Wisp saved more like 20. Not a big difference, but since I find Mortea to be the more dangerous foe anyway, I thought I'd point it out.

Watched the TAS...  only noticed a couple things I hadn't thought of before:
[list]
[li]The runner lets Nina and Sr-1 die against Morte and Mortea, so that the second part of the Wizard fight ends immediately.  I don't think that the runner's overall strategy is necessarily the fastest (more on that in a second), but I can see it being helpful to have at least one of them die in advance.  Waiting for the Wizard to Petrify you to death kinda sucks.[/li]
[li]I hadn't noticed that the Cleansing Water lady (the one you need to talk to before the old woman will move the grave) is in the front of Romero if you enter during the day.  Oops.[/li]
[/list]

Apart from that, there are a couple sub-optimal path choices, and I don't think the runner collects nearly enough items to get through Auria without doing the fairy sidequest.  Maybe the runner knows something that I don't. :|

Also, one other thing I noticed:  on the way into Karma, you can pick up a B.Stn and a C.Stn conveniently.  The TAS runner used them on Talon.  IMO you're better off using them on Mortea.  I did a couple rough timings in an emulator, and using them on Mortea saved me around 40 seconds vs. having Nina E.Key and the soldiers attack, whereas using them on Talon or Wisp saved more like 20.  Not a big difference, but since I find Mortea to be the more dangerous foe anyway, I thought I'd point it out.