Breath of Fire

2010-07-12 09:21:28 pm

D:

I had planned to leave the SuedeGN on Karn until the end of the game. The PrisnCL has the same DEF bonus and is a little lighter in weight.

The significant thing about the FATE boost is that Karn's chances of a critical hit normally range from 10% to about 14% over the course of the game. Adding 4% onto that makes it a 30%-40% relative gain, which could do something for me.

Also, I cut another 5 seconds off the Gremlin fight by letting Nina die two turns before the end. I was hoping to save more with that... looks like the 12-turn fight may really be worth shooting for.

japanzaman

2010-07-31 06:13:19 pm

So, any luck with the 12 turn fight?

*shameless bump*

__sdfg

2010-07-31 08:09:18 pm

D:

I had a strategy where I would let Nina die on the 10th turn (i.e., as soon as possible). That resulted in four or five attempts where Bo died on the last turn. It was technically possible to win with this strategy, but I got tired of dying, so I adjusted it to have Nina heal Bo and then die on the 11th turn instead. I beat Gremlin with the revised strategy today, but Talon Slammed Ryu on the second-to-last turn of the fight and Ryu didn't have enough HP left to finish the job.

Still trying every now and then...

__sdfg

2010-08-15 02:49:24 pm

D:

* revives the thread

I have given up on defeating Gremlin in 12 turns. If I keep trying, I won't finish this segment until September at the earliest. Winning a 12-turn fight is so unlikely to succeed that it discourages me from playing the game, and I have little enough time for speedrunning as it is.

The new plan is to try for a 13-turn segment where I hit buttons as quickly as I can while still managing not to do anything stupid. Doing that, I can probably get within 10 seconds of where I would be if I did a 12-turn run (because actually pulling off a 12-turn Gremlin fight would leave me so shaken that I'd waste at least 5 seconds later in the segment). I actually recorded a couple successful runs earlier today after going back to the 13-turn strategy. I was rusty after Talon in both of them, so I'm still not satisfied with what I have, but the second run managed to be my fastest recording yet despite 3-4 seconds of mistakes in Auria. Now that I enjoy running this game again, maybe I'll produce something worth posting in the next couple weeks and I'll be able to move on.

[me]revives the thread[/me]

I have given up on defeating Gremlin in 12 turns.  If I keep trying, I won't finish this segment until September at the earliest.  Winning a 12-turn fight is so unlikely to succeed that it discourages me from playing the game, and I have little enough time for speedrunning as it is.

The new plan is to try for a 13-turn segment where I hit buttons as quickly as I can while still managing not to do anything stupid.  Doing that, I can probably get within 10 seconds of where I would be if I did a 12-turn run (because actually pulling off a 12-turn Gremlin fight would leave me so shaken that I'd waste at least 5 seconds later in the segment).  I actually recorded a couple successful runs earlier today after going back to the 13-turn strategy.  I was rusty after Talon in both of them, so I'm still not satisfied with what I have, but the second run managed to be my fastest recording yet despite 3-4 seconds of mistakes in Auria.  Now that I enjoy running this game again, maybe I'll produce something worth posting in the next couple weeks and I'll be able to move on.

japanzaman

2010-08-15 04:40:42 pm

Good to hear! I promise that getting the DarkDr will produce the same feeling as this fight did, so good luck!

__sdfg

Edit history:

__sdfg: 2010-09-19 08:38:59 pm

2010-09-19 08:37:51 pm

D:

The bad news is that after my last post, I worked pretty much every day in August, and then with some other stuff going on earlier in the month, I didn't get a good chance to work on the run until this weekend. The good news is that some stuff got rearranged at work and I should be able to play on weekends again.

Anyway, I think I've reached the point of diminishing returns on this segment. I have posted my best run from August on YouTube (part 1 -- part 2). I didn't like that run then (and still don't) because of the stupid mistakes made in the second half, but I was faster than usual with the combat menus, so the run was pretty fast. Earlier today, I recorded another run where I moved more deliberately so as to avoid (most) mistakes. Today's run was four seconds slower. I can keep playing and try to reproduce the speed of the August run but without the mistakes, or I can move on.

So... how does everyone feel? My feeling is that the run is already acceptable-at-best and that I'm better off getting it over with. If there are objections, though, I can keep trying. It depends on what everyone wants to watch, and whether you think it meets the standards of SDA and all. I know it seems like I ask this for every segment, but that's because I honestly want to know if people are satisfied with the run, not just because I'm looking for excuses...

The bad news is that after my last post, I worked pretty much every day in August, and then with some other stuff going on earlier in the month, I didn't get a good chance to work on the run until this weekend.  The good news is that some stuff got rearranged at work and I should be able to play on weekends again.

Anyway, I think I've reached the point of diminishing returns on this segment.  I have posted my best run from August on YouTube ([url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slGTrHeNhqk]part 1[/url] -- [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD2STKWoeVI]part 2[/url]).  I didn't like that run then (and still don't) because of the stupid mistakes made in the second half, but I was faster than usual with the combat menus, so the run was pretty fast.  Earlier today, I recorded another run where I moved more deliberately so as to avoid (most) mistakes.  Today's run was four seconds slower.  I can keep playing and try to reproduce the speed of the August run but without the mistakes, or I can move on.

So...  how does everyone feel?  My feeling is that the run is already acceptable-at-best and that I'm better off getting it over with.  If there are objections, though, I can keep trying.  It depends on what everyone wants to watch, and whether you think it meets the standards of SDA and all.  I know it seems like I ask this for every segment, but that's because I honestly want to know if people are satisfied with the run, not just because I'm looking for excuses...

DoubleThink

2010-09-20 12:08:07 am

There's a word for that

By my count the mistakes in part 2 are:
-Walked into a wall for one step
-Had some difficulty talking to Ross
-Hit Buy instead of Sell momentarily
-Took one step in the wrong direction after exiting the cave
-"Mistake" with some NPCs getting in the way in Bleak
Maybe like 5 seconds' worth in total?

INSTANT REJECT MUST REDO UNTIL IS PERFECT

Seriously: Anyone who would reject this needs to stop verifying Undecided

Getting hung up on a segment is never a good thing, and there's much more time than could potentially be lost later in the run where things are (I'm guessing) less certain. The Gremlin fight (which again is like one of the hardest in the game) was near-perfect and clearly shows a great deal of planning. We're talking about seconds here in a segment that is 19 minutes long. A lot of RPG runs could easily lose whole minutes over a period like that.

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2010-09-20 01:28:39 am

mikwuyma: 2010-09-20 12:43:00 am

2010-09-20 12:41:51 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

My Contra III run has more than five seconds of mistakes, and it's less than 19 minutes. The run obviously should have been rejected.

Seriously though, just move on. The run is going to be really long and those tiny mistakes won't add up to much , and I doubt they'll make your run a minute longer in the long run.

EDIT: I watched the first part of the segment and wow Gremlin is a jerk. You should keep the segment just because you beat the guy.

Also, the rest of the segment was badass, especially the planning and how you only had 67 gp at the end of the segment.

P.S. Mrbl3's make this game almost tolerable to speedrun.

PJ

2010-09-20 01:30:14 am

Is PJ

I second everything Mike said. Mostly because I want to see more of this run. ^_^

Really though, those mistakes are nothing to worry about. Wink

japanzaman

Edit history:

japanzaman: 2010-09-20 03:04:44 am

2010-09-20 03:03:46 am

Let me just say first that I'm glad you're back at it. Thought you were going to call it quits for a little while thumbsup

There are a couple segments in this game where a few minor mistakes should be overlooked:

Gremlin segment
Sandworm / Tomb segment
Cloud segment
DarkDr segment
Mote segment

In terms of luck, the Gremlin segment is probably the easiest, but it is easily the longest giving you the most opportunity to mess stuff up. As for the DarkDr, I'm afraid you're just going to have to take whatever happens in that segment (god forbid nothing major).

Move on. If you were really concerned with getting a technically perfect speed run you'd have to start over anyway. For a game with somewhat poor handling, you're already pushing the limits as to what can be realistically expected. I ended up with over 3 minutes on my single segment attempt, and that was with 2 rather catastrophic errors. I think you'll be fine in the long run.

__sdfg

2010-09-20 11:44:28 pm

D:

Thanks, guys. Every so often, I venture outside the threads for games that I could consider running, see things like this, and curl up into a very tiny ball.

Also, browsing the forum on my phone at around 1:30 AM last night + DoubleThink's giant avatar + dark background + red text = HOLY SHIT DEMONS HAVE TAKEN MY PHONE

The good news is that based on my first runthrough, the next segment should be five or six minutes shorter than this one, so... hopefully less drama from me for a while.

ZenicReverie

2010-09-21 12:13:38 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Those mistakes are negligible. Keep up the good work.

Although, the Talon fight was kind of boring, any way to spice that up? Wink

__sdfg

2010-11-13 11:00:06 pm

D:

Wow, this thread is reaaaaaallllly old and as usual, I could improve this segment, but I'll be out of town the next couple weekends, so maybe I'll just take it anyway.

Also, this happened to me a couple times.

japanzaman

Edit history:

japanzaman: 2010-11-14 03:46:25 pm

2010-11-14 03:35:48 pm

Wow, you haven't given up on this after all. I ran into that Crpyt glitch on the emulator and I think I posted about it earlier in this thread. The problem seems to arise from moving too quickly after Karn initially goes down the stairs after turning off the water for you. In my single segment run I actually made a point of waiting two seconds just so that wouldn't happen!

You probably could have AB'd sandworm with enough persistence, but I do understand that death abuse does make that segment a little tougher. Get ready for a fun fight with Cloud, as I think he's one of the harder enemies in the game to successfully AB.

Good to see you're still plugging. Good luck!

DoubleThink

2010-11-14 10:41:44 pm

There's a word for that

Nina really turns auto-battling into a complete drag Sad

__sdfg

2010-12-11 08:58:29 pm

D:

I haven't recorded anything since my last post, but I have done some experimentation and I'm considering changing my strategy. I'd originally planned to make Ryu the sole survivor against Cloud, then revive the rest of the party at the inn after Knight so that they (mainly Nina) can gain some experience. I've since realized that it's at least 20-30 seconds faster to skip the inn and go through Squid and all the guys before him with just Ryu. If I do that, however, I need to keep Nina alive against Cloud because she otherwise won't gain enough exp. to learn Warp after Toad.

Keeping Nina alive doesn't seem to be too much of an encumbrance if I abuse luck to concentrate the damage on Bo and Karn, so I intend to do that and have Ryu beat Squid solo. Any objections?

japanzaman

2010-12-12 02:59:57 am

Will you AB cloud from start to finish? I remember the odds to be around 5% success with only Ryu, but I have beaten him on full AB with Nina alive as well so it's not impossible. I think you really should strive to beat him with a full AB and then perhaps be a little safer against Squid, as AB saves quite a bit of time against Cloud due to the fact that he uses so much magic that draws out the length of the battle. If you were planning on doing Cloud and Squid in a single segment, that could be fairly challenging but save you some decent time. Good luck.

__sdfg

2010-12-12 10:38:12 am

D:

When you say, "full AB," do you mean using autobattle without other attacks (Fry, E.Key) or without stopping to heal? I was planning to avoid other attacks, aside from having Bo Fry once or twice if I had to go into the battle menu to do something. I don't think I've tried going through the fight without healing. Maybe I can shoot for that. Either way, I'm probably gonna have to restart if Cloud uses Devistat :(. For Squid, I'll only have Ryu alive, so I'll have to use the spare Herbs in my inventory.

I plan to put Cloud in his own segment. He is by far the most difficult opponent that I face before Prima. My plan for saving looks like this:

As soon as I reenter Auria. If I did it after going through Ross's house or after re-defeating Knight, I would have to walk slightly farther out of my way to reach the shrine than I would if I did it on the way in. Also, I plan to equip some stuff in Ross's basement and I don't trust myself to work in menus efficiently that far into a segment.
When I reach Prima. Squid and Octo aren't too hard. The main challenge will be keeping Octo from running into Nina and killing her in one hit. Morteo's not bad, either, but I don't want to stretch the segment that far.

When you say, "full AB," do you mean using autobattle without other attacks (Fry, E.Key) or without stopping to heal?  I was planning to avoid other attacks, aside from having Bo Fry once or twice if I had to go into the battle menu to do something.  I don't think I've tried going through the fight without healing.  Maybe I can shoot for that.  Either way, I'm probably gonna have to restart if Cloud uses Devistat :(.  For Squid, I'll only have Ryu alive, so I'll have to use the spare Herbs in my inventory.

I plan to put Cloud in his own segment.  He is by far the most difficult opponent that I face before Prima.  My plan for saving looks like this:
[list]
[li]As soon as I reenter Auria.  If I did it after going through Ross's house or after re-defeating Knight, I would have to walk [i]slightly[/i] farther out of my way to reach the shrine than I would if I did it on the way in.  Also, I plan to equip some stuff in Ross's basement and I don't trust myself to work in menus efficiently that far into a segment.[/li]
[li]When I reach Prima.  Squid and Octo aren't too hard.  The main challenge will be keeping Octo from running into Nina and killing her in one hit.  Morteo's not bad, either, but I don't want to stretch the segment that far.[/li]
[/list]

japanzaman

2010-12-12 03:57:47 pm

For Cloud I would do a complete AB except the first round. In the first round I would use Fry, Ekey, and throw a herb on Nina with somebody if it allows you to move after Cloud. Like I said, I think the odds of winning on a complete AB with Nina alive are around 2 to 3%. But I have done it before and it isn't completely impossible to do. I was under the impression that you would run the squid segment together with this one as the Squid segment fairly easy, but if you are going to throw in a save somewhere I say gun for the full AB as I know I could do it if I was doing a segmented run.

Like I said before, Cloud could be the toughest in the game to have a successful full AB due to that Devistat attack.

Axel Ryman

2010-12-13 07:12:29 pm

We all scream for Eyes Cream

For anyone who doesn't know, Janus completed his TAS for this game and is submitting it.

Download link

Stream link

__sdfg

2010-12-14 05:36:56 pm

D:

Cool. I have not been keeping up with that. I will have to check it out at some point.

DoubleThink

2010-12-14 08:16:48 pm

There's a word for that

The submission is over here, if you'd prefer to watch it on emulator/read his notes

PJ

2010-12-14 08:34:24 pm

Is PJ

I watched the entire thing between yesterday and today. I forgot how much I hated playing through the Mote/Cerl stuff at the end of the game. Soooo annoying.

I'm still really looking forward to this run, though! This is perhaps the run I'm anticipating most at SDA. Go go go! Wink

__sdfg

Edit history:

__sdfg: 2011-01-02 06:54:50 pm

2011-01-02 06:54:38 pm

D:

I has a segment: . My computer was even worse than usual at keeping all of the frames and recording them in the right order, though, so I'm gonna have to do it again.

I'd like to point out the following things because I plan to keep doing them:

I moved Bo into the front row and Ryu into the back row because I got sick of recording segments where Cloud attacked Ryu on the first three turns. That hasn't happened since I started putting Ryu back there.
I use ATK-Up on Bo to encourage him to do just enough extra damage to save Ryu one turn of dragon-ing.

Also, wow, it's been almost two months since my last completed segment. Sad

japanzaman

2011-01-03 08:02:31 am

I didn't see anything wrong with the video quality, but then again YouTube is never the place to be assessing video quality.

That segment, aside from the one mistep, was pretty much flawless. You even got a Life2 out of Cloud. You could do that another 100 times and never see that kind of result.

I think you really need to think about getting another recording medium if you can't isolate the problem with your setup, as you probably don't want to get the DarkDr just to find out your pc crapped out on you. My two cents, but then again I'm not the one who has to do it. Good luck!