Braid

Edit history:

Patashu: 2013-06-29 04:22:15 am

Patashu: 2013-06-29 04:19:00 am

2013-06-28 10:35:14 pm

http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510
I made a Braid speedrunning tutorial up to the end of world 4 for xfullmetal17, but maybe other people would be interested in it. I could upload this to youtube too, but I think probably it needs to be improved first, for instance I don't properly explain why 3-8 works and how you should handle the post platform clip movement, and I do so poorly on 3-3 / 3-4 / 4-7 that it makes them look harder than they are. I also think now 3-4 basement jump should use a cue for when to jump, e.g. fall off the platform, run about this far and jump here.

2013-06-29 04:21:18 am

@Patashu > I started watching your tutorial (only a few minutes of it), and I noticed some things. For instance, in 2-1 you try to get as much corner boosts as you can, but you don't have to, I'll explain : in the TAS, getting all of those is precious because it allows Keylie to have a nice timing on last 2 goombas, and he even skips one, which is not concievable with a pad. So if you take no corner boost, you can still get the perfect timing and finish 2-1 with ~1min01. Just so you're aware of that, I wanted to tell it here ^_^ also, I don't know for the rest of your tutorial yet, but there are some stages where hurrying is not inevitable, since you have to wait for some cycles, no matter what you do. I'll watch the tutorial and see that in time Smiley

But for what I've seen, you've very conciencious and that's a pleasure to see Cheesy

Keep up the good work, I wanted to start a tutorial, I might do it some time, but yours looks very nice yet Cheesy

2013-06-29 04:25:46 am

Yes, give all the criticism and feedback you want, I know a better tutorial can and should be made Smiley

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-07-01 06:02:35 am

Archanfel: 2013-06-29 08:53:48 am

2013-06-29 08:40:28 am

Quote from Patashu:

Yes, give all the criticism and feedback you want, I know a better tutorial can and should be made Smiley

Nice tutorial! Only one disadvantage it is too long. In some simple places (for example in 4-1) you wasted many time. Good tutorial should be shorter. Imho 2 hours it is too long even for full game tutorial. (But it is only my opinion Roll Eyes

)

Btw in room in 4-6 you have not paid attention to opportunity to allow goomba to pass all green plants in a single run. No need pause in the middle. That trick can save ~3-4 seconds (one plant cycle).

---

Quote from P-why:

But 1 thing I never managed to do (very¹ very² very³ very⁴ close timing) is what Keylie does in the TAS, i.e. save even 1 more cycle with the upper plant.

Saving second plant cycle is insane hard, i succeed it only once, after about ~120 attempts.
P.S. you missed one "very". In reality it require very¹ very² very³ very⁴ very⁵ close timing. It almost impossible with a pad.

[quote="Patashu"]Yes, give all the criticism and feedback you want, I know a better tutorial can and should be made :)[/quote]Nice tutorial! Only one disadvantage it is too long. In some simple places (for example in 4-1) you wasted many time. Good tutorial should be shorter. Imho 2 hours it is too long even for full game tutorial. (But it is only my opinion ::) )

Btw in room in 4-6 you have not paid attention to opportunity to allow goomba to pass all green plants in a single run. No need pause in the middle. That trick can save ~3-4 seconds (one plant cycle).
[hidden][URL=http://hostingkartinok.com][IMG]http://s3.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2013/06/839f498601f7edc37854fe3bda270ab1.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/hidden]
---[quote="P-why"]But 1 thing I never managed to do (very[sup]1[/sup] very[sup]2[/sup] very[sup]3[/sup] very[sup]4[/sup] close timing) is what Keylie does in the TAS, i.e. save even 1 more cycle with the upper plant.[/quote]Saving second plant cycle is insane hard, i succeed it only once, after about ~120 attempts.
P.S. you missed one "very". In reality it require very[sup]1[/sup] very[sup]2[/sup] very[sup]3[/sup] very[sup]4[/sup] [b]very[sup]5[/sup][/b] close timing. It almost impossible with a pad.

Edit history:

Patashu: 2013-07-01 04:12:29 am

Patashu: 2013-07-01 03:17:11 am

Patashu: 2013-06-30 09:07:06 pm

2013-06-30 09:02:25 pm

Yeah I definitely agree it needs to be a lot shorter, I'll make a new one when I'm playing better. I've actually learned a lot of tiny things just by helping with xfullmetal17's practice, for example for the three pirahna plant obstacle course in 3-6 "Irreversible" I thought you had to do a wiggle mid both jumps to go between pirahna plant and key, but if you make the first jump early it can be at full speed, and the second jump can be at full speed too (either you must make a tiny wait behind the pirahna plant that traps you upstairs or after the first jump). I also learned that if you are holding up on a ladder and hit jump to dismount, if you are still holding up when Tim lands he will immediately regrab the ladder, so you have to be careful to let go of up first in many places (two times in 3-5 "Tight Channels" for example)

I'll try faster 4-6 when I get home, that would be a cool time saver. I also want to see if killing the 3-7 boss with only the right chandelier (like TAS) is viable/consistent. And of course I need to get on learning world 5 Smiley

I actually started but got stuck wanting to do something more like the TAS strat for 5-2 "So Distant", but it seems hard and if you mess up the second jump you have to redo the first jump, whereas p_why's strat is safe and not too slow.

EDIT: Faster 4-6 works! Timing is tricky so I'll have to practice this now, however doing a running start (as the pic suggests) makes it a lot wider to time. Thank you for pointing out it's possible Smiley

Yeah I definitely agree it needs to be a lot shorter, I'll make a new one when I'm playing better. I've actually learned a lot of tiny things just by helping with xfullmetal17's practice, for example for the three pirahna plant obstacle course in 3-6 "Irreversible" I thought you had to do a wiggle mid both jumps to go between pirahna plant and key, but if you make the first jump early it can be at full speed, and the second jump can be at full speed too (either you must make a tiny wait behind the pirahna plant that traps you upstairs or after the first jump). I also learned that if you are holding up on a ladder and hit jump to dismount, if you are still holding up when Tim lands he will immediately regrab the ladder, so you have to be careful to let go of up first in many places (two times in 3-5 "Tight Channels" for example)

I'll try faster 4-6 when I get home, that would be a cool time saver. I also want to see if killing the 3-7 boss with only the right chandelier (like TAS) is viable/consistent. And of course I need to get on learning world 5 :) I actually started but got stuck wanting to do something more like the TAS strat for 5-2 "So Distant", but it seems hard and if you mess up the second jump you have to redo the first jump, whereas p_why's strat is safe and not too slow.

EDIT: Faster 4-6 works! Timing is tricky so I'll have to practice this now, however doing a running start (as the pic suggests) makes it a lot wider to time. Thank you for pointing out it's possible :)

Edit history:

P-why: 2013-07-01 04:54:55 am

2013-07-01 04:53:20 am

Quote from Patashu:

I actually started but got stuck wanting to do something more like the TAS strat for 5-2 "So Distant", but it seems hard and if you mess up the second jump you have to redo the first jump, whereas p_why's strat is safe and not too slow.

TAS strat is almost frame perfect for the goomba jump > the U-turn in the air and the placement of the goomba are very precise... I never managed to perform this one (I did not try for so long, but still ^^)
The only thing to save some frames with my strat is to hit the goomba as far to the right as possible, so that you have to rewind less Smiley

Quote from Patashu:

Faster 4-6 works! Timing is tricky so I'll have to practice this now, however doing a running start (as the pic suggests) makes it a lot wider to time. Thank you for pointing out it's possible Smiley

Of course it is possible (you can see it in the TAS for instance). And I thought it was too hard with a pad, but I do it pretty often now (let's say 50%), and I call it pretty often because there is no risk at trying that strat Wink

> if you fail, you just have to rewind ~1/2 sec to make the goomba alive as close to the plants as possible, then you continue with the normal strat. It's 100% safe, and indeed you can save 3 to 5 seconds.
But 1 thing I never managed to do (very very very very close timing) is what Keylie does in the TAS, i.e. save even 1 more cycle with the upper plant. But that's too hard and can be very punitive if you fail (getting the key back once it's on the clouds can be a pain in the a**)!

Anyway, I'll watch the tutorial and tell you if I see something else Smiley

but I think the same as Archanfel about the length Wink

[quote="Patashu"]I actually started but got stuck wanting to do something more like the TAS strat for 5-2 "So Distant", but it seems hard and if you mess up the second jump you have to redo the first jump, whereas p_why's strat is safe and not too slow.[/quote]
TAS strat is almost frame perfect for the goomba jump > the U-turn in the air and the placement of the goomba are very precise... I never managed to perform this one (I did not try for so long, but still ^^)
The only thing to save some frames with my strat is to hit the goomba as far to the right as possible, so that you have to rewind less :)

[quote="Patashu"]Faster 4-6 works! Timing is tricky so I'll have to practice this now, however doing a running start (as the pic suggests) makes it a lot wider to time. Thank you for pointing out it's possible :)[/quote]
Of course it is possible (you can see it in the TAS for instance). And I thought it was too hard with a pad, but I do it pretty often now (let's say 50%), and I call it pretty often because there is no risk at trying that strat ;) > if you fail, you just have to rewind ~1/2 sec to make the goomba alive as close to the plants as possible, then you continue with the normal strat. It's 100% safe, and indeed you can save 3 to 5 seconds.
But 1 thing I never managed to do (very very very very close timing) is what Keylie does in the TAS, i.e. save even 1 more cycle with the upper plant. But that's too hard and can be very punitive if you fail (getting the key back once it's on the clouds can be a pain in the a**)!

Anyway, I'll watch the tutorial and tell you if I see something else :) but I think the same as Archanfel about the length ;)

Edit history:

P-why: 2013-07-01 09:49:36 am

2013-07-01 09:47:18 am

Ok I've watched the whole tutorial, and I noted all the remarks I wanted to make Smiley

But I wanted to say that you know a lot about the game and your level can be very high in no time with a bit of practice, that's a pleasure to see !

Then, my global feeling about this video is that it looks more like a training than a tutorial, and that's why it's too long. I mean, when you want to show something and you don't really nail it, you always try several times before going to the next step. But that's fully understandable, since it's just to show and explain things.

Just an overall thing: when you bunny hope, sometimes it's not worth it (but it's not very important because bunny hoping on the flat ground doesn't cost time) like very "flat" slopes. Once again it's not important, but just wanted to tell it. If it always was a time savior, you'd see it in the TAS everywhere Wink

(2-1 : 3 easy pieces) @04:15 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=04m15s
You try to get as much corner boosts as you can, but you don't have to, I'll explain : in the TAS, getting all of those is precious because it allows Keylie to have a nice timing on last 2 goombas, and he even skips one, which is not concievable with a pad. So if you take no corner boost, you can still get the perfect timing and finish 2-1 with ~1min01

(Home) @25:58 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=25m58s
Don't take the corner boost before World 3. You'll be at the door before it's actually active and you'll have to time the opening, whereas if you walk all the way to the door, you arrive almost at the same time as the door becomes active.

(3-3 : Phase) @31:13 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=31m13s
Canon Corner boost can be efficient even if you're not at the right spot for perfect jump. Also, in this stage, there's absolutely no need to hurry, since you have to wait for the cloud. So just don't try too much "perfect" things, just do it safely.

(3-6 : Irreversible) @48:05 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=48m05s
Actually there is a faster way to go above the plant, if you're faster to get the puzzle piece. If you do it correctly, you can jump above a goomba to go over the plant (and I counted the goombas which were popping out of the canon, when I reach the top of the plant, it's when the 3rd goomba pops out, so it is faster).
See:

(4-2 : Jumpman) @1:05:45 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=1h05m45s
If you really wanna save as much frames as possible, you can perform a double jump on the goomba. Then, you can save some time again by jumping a bit earlier on the platform goomba (so you don't have to make a U-turn before trying to get the corner boost .
See:

(4-2 : Jumpman) @1:08:50 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=1h08m50s
You can save a few frames again by jumping while opening the door, so you don't have to turn left for half a second.
See:

(4-6 : Movement Amplified) @1:28:15 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=1h28m14s
When you wait for the plant to go down again, don't forget to stop time again, you'll save a bit of time too. Also, the goomba on the floor can cross all the plants at once, and you'll save a cycle with the plant above (3~5 seconds). The TAS saves one more cycle, but it's almost frame perfect so not consistent at all.
See:

(4-7 : Fickle Companion) @1:45:00 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=1h45m00s
If that ever happens in a run, it's the easiest mistake to correct in Fickle Companion. You can backup on previous strat and save yourself for doing the whole level again. That saved some of my runs Wink

See:

EDIT PS: oh I noticed you put the TAS and WR links on your twitch page, thank you Smiley

and I also like people using my strats, I feel so #hype everytime xD

Ok I've watched the whole tutorial, and I noted all the remarks I wanted to make :) But I wanted to say that you know a lot about the game and your level can be very high in no time with a bit of practice, that's a pleasure to see !

Then, my global feeling about this video is that it looks more like a training than a tutorial, and that's why it's too long. I mean, when you want to show something and you don't really nail it, you always try several times before going to the next step. But that's fully understandable, since it's just to show and explain things.

Just an overall thing: when you bunny hope, sometimes it's not worth it (but it's not very important because bunny hoping on the flat ground doesn't cost time) like very "flat" slopes. Once again it's not important, but just wanted to tell it. If it always was a time savior, you'd see it in the TAS everywhere ;)

(2-1 : 3 easy pieces) @04:15 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=04m15s
You try to get as much corner boosts as you can, but you don't have to, I'll explain : in the TAS, getting all of those is precious because it allows Keylie to have a nice timing on last 2 goombas, and he even skips one, which is not concievable with a pad. So if you take no corner boost, you can still get the perfect timing and finish 2-1 with ~1min01

(Home) @25:58 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=25m58s
Don't take the corner boost before World 3. You'll be at the door before it's actually active and you'll have to time the opening, whereas if you walk all the way to the door, you arrive almost at the same time as the door becomes active.

(3-3 : Phase) @31:13 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=31m13s
Canon Corner boost can be efficient even if you're not at the right spot for perfect jump. Also, in this stage, there's absolutely no need to hurry, since you have to wait for the cloud. So just don't try too much "perfect" things, just do it safely.

(3-6 : Irreversible) @48:05 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=48m05s
Actually there is a faster way to go above the plant, if you're faster to get the puzzle piece. If you do it correctly, you can jump above a goomba to go over the plant (and I counted the goombas which were popping out of the canon, when I reach the top of the plant, it's when the 3rd goomba pops out, so it is faster).
See: http://youtu.be/OtVHkcb8DWQ?t=6m43s

(4-2 : Jumpman) @1:05:45 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=1h05m45s
If you really wanna save as much frames as possible, you can perform a double jump on the goomba. Then, you can save some time again by jumping a bit earlier on the platform goomba (so you don't have to make a U-turn before trying to get the corner boost .
See: http://youtu.be/OtVHkcb8DWQ?t=9m4s

(4-2 : Jumpman) @1:08:50 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=1h08m50s
You can save a few frames again by jumping while opening the door, so you don't have to turn left for half a second.
See: http://youtu.be/OtVHkcb8DWQ?t=9m16s

(4-6 : Movement Amplified) @1:28:15 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=1h28m14s
When you wait for the plant to go down again, don't forget to stop time again, you'll save a bit of time too. Also, the goomba on the floor can cross all the plants at once, and you'll save a cycle with the plant above (3~5 seconds). The TAS saves one more cycle, but it's almost frame perfect so not consistent at all.
See: http://youtu.be/Tbu7XcN-Dqo

(4-7 : Fickle Companion) @1:45:00 http://www.twitch.tv/patashu/c/2493510?t=1h45m00s
If that ever happens in a run, it's the easiest mistake to correct in Fickle Companion. You can backup on previous strat and save yourself for doing the whole level again. That saved some of my runs ;)
See: http://youtu.be/bRMA_LfK6TM?t=12m11s

EDIT PS: oh I noticed you put the TAS and WR links on your twitch page, thank you :) and I also like people using my strats, I feel so #hype everytime xD

2013-07-01 05:21:52 pm

This is a very good list :), I'll practice when I get home, I'll specifically 'cross each one' off to make sure I've internalized them all.

2013-07-04 04:27:33 pm

Mostly done learning world 5 except I have two questions.

Keylie: In 5-6 "Lair", why do you not bunnyhop up the hill as much as you did in 3-7 "Lair"? What do you recommend RTA does re: bunnyhops in this level?

P_why: In 5-7 "Fragile Companion", why the strat where you wait for the goomba to give you the green key and do a jump? Wouldn't it be faster RTA to run at the doors, rewind to just before the jump and go slightly slower (ala the TAS)?

Then world 6 time, oboy

keylie

Edit history:

keylie: 2013-07-05 02:48:15 am

keylie: 2013-07-05 02:44:11 am

2013-07-05 02:43:20 am

Quote from Patashu:

Keylie: In 5-6 "Lair", why do you not bunnyhop up the hill as much as you did in 3-7 "Lair"? What do you recommend RTA does re: bunnyhops in this level?

In this level, I'm doing the trick where my shadow is taking the puzzle piece. So I need to jump at a specific moment for this trick to be optimal. Based on that, I can try to add more jumps before, knowing that a jump saves time only if I immediately jump after (well, not always... Sad

). I could add one jump before, as shown in the video, but if I add a second jump before, that earliest jump lands me on the slopiest portion, and this is actually worse than not jumping.

I didn't look at these levels in the editor. Maybe in 3-7, I managed to land on my second jump in a not-so-sloppy ground. Honestly, these parts were the most horrible parts to optimise, so it may be improvable. Feel free to do whatever you want Smiley

EDIT: As you may guess, 'Tight Channels' was the stage I hate the most... and I actually know how to save 1 frame on the first ladder, but I was so sick of it that I didn't started it other *again*.

[quote="Patashu"]Keylie: In 5-6 "Lair", why do you not bunnyhop up the hill as much as you did in 3-7 "Lair"? What do you recommend RTA does re: bunnyhops in this level?[/quote]
In this level, I'm doing the trick where my shadow is taking the puzzle piece. So I need to jump at a specific moment for this trick to be optimal. Based on that, I can try to add more jumps before, knowing that a jump saves time only if I immediately jump after (well, not always... :( ). I could add one jump before, as shown in the video, but if I add a second jump before, that earliest jump lands me on the slopiest portion, and this is actually worse than not jumping.

I didn't look at these levels in the editor. Maybe in 3-7, I managed to land on my second jump in a not-so-sloppy ground. Honestly, these parts were the most horrible parts to optimise, so it may be improvable. Feel free to do whatever you want :)

EDIT: As you may guess, 'Tight Channels' was the stage I hate the most... and I actually know how to save 1 frame on the first ladder, but I was so sick of it that I didn't started it other *again*.

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-07-05 11:14:52 am

Archanfel: 2013-07-05 11:14:32 am

2013-07-05 08:15:58 am

O! Master keylie is still here, so i want to ask one small question. Just for curiosity, did you try to get this corner boots in 4-4?

Most likely useless (because of goomba not in good position), but may be Tim still can save some acceleration...

Edit: Thanks for explanation, i expected something like that.

keylie

2013-07-05 08:27:33 am

Quote from Archanfel:

O! Master keylie is still here, so i want to ask one small question. Just for curiosity, did you try to get this corner boots in 4-4?

Yes, it's not possible. The reason is that as it is a standard platform (don't remember the name from the editor), you cannot do a big boost on it. So the trajectory always starts with null vertical velocity. Because of that, I would land much more on the left than you draw if I want to have a decent speed up. Then, I would hit the left platform after bouncing.

Edit history:

Patashu: 2013-07-06 02:33:57 am

Patashu: 2013-07-06 02:26:49 am

Patashu: 2013-07-06 02:21:20 am

Patashu: 2013-07-06 02:13:11 am

Patashu: 2013-07-06 02:09:50 am

Patashu: 2013-07-06 02:03:36 am

Patashu: 2013-07-06 02:00:17 am

Patashu: 2013-07-06 01:59:43 am

2013-07-06 01:58:13 am

Quote:

The reason is that as it is a standard platform (don't remember the name from the editor), you cannot do a big boost on it.

Anything in Braid that is a 'one way' style platform (the wooden platform things, clouds, etc) can't do a type 2 corner boost to you, because there is no walled edge to get embedded in and ejected from by the physics engine, it has no collision detection on sides or bottom.
Type 1 corner boosts I think are the same as slope boosts (it's the game pushing you forward for one frame).

---

Ok, I have everything in the pro strat for 6-4 "Cascade" down... except for the first goomba jump. (Cue laughter as everyone is aware this is what makes it the pro strat except me <.<)

I figured out that you can be consistent on it by jumping on a certain point on the left side of the helmet (or a bit more to the right?) and turning around 2-4 frames later...

... IF you climbed past the first fireball super optimally. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do this without a lot of rewinding trial and error, and if you're even slightly slower the jump doesn't work (you always get bitten, you have to do the jump later, the window for getting it shrinks to 0 rapidly)

So either I need to do 1) always climb past that fireball super optimally, e.g. a cue is needed, or 2) a more consistent way to do the goomba jump that works EVEN if you're a bit slow on the ladder.

p_why, keylie, Archanfel, do you know anything about this?

EDIT: I notice in p_why's WR the ladder climbing was quite optimal:

EDIT 2: I have two ideas for getting the perfect ladder climb without needing timing:
First off, don't do a first frame jump when entering the level just in case it messes up the timing;
A) Do a very VERY late jump onto the ladder, like 2-4 frames of jump before you cling onto the ladder late.
B) Do a good ladder jump, but while holding up very lightly tap down three times before the fireball is reached (I don't like this one, I can't seem to make the pauses consistent amounts)

[quote]The reason is that as it is a standard platform (don't remember the name from the editor), you cannot do a big boost on it. [/quote]
Anything in Braid that is a 'one way' style platform (the wooden platform things, clouds, etc) can't do a type 2 corner boost to you, because there is no walled edge to get embedded in and ejected from by the physics engine, it has no collision detection on sides or bottom.
Type 1 corner boosts I think are the same as slope boosts (it's the game pushing you forward for one frame).

---

Ok, I have everything in the pro strat for 6-4 "Cascade" down... except for the first goomba jump. (Cue laughter as everyone is aware this is what makes it the pro strat except me <.<)

I figured out that you can be consistent on it by jumping on a certain point on the left side of the helmet (or a bit more to the right?) and turning around 2-4 frames later...
[img]http://i.imgur.com/CTPx41z.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/kUnKW0k.jpg[/img]
... IF you climbed past the first fireball super optimally. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do this without a lot of rewinding trial and error, and if you're even slightly slower the jump doesn't work (you always get bitten, you have to do the jump later, the window for getting it shrinks to 0 rapidly)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/pFT45JT.jpg[/img]
So either I need to do 1) always climb past that fireball super optimally, e.g. a cue is needed, or 2) a more consistent way to do the goomba jump that works EVEN if you're a bit slow on the ladder.

p_why, keylie, Archanfel, do you know anything about this?

EDIT: I notice in p_why's WR the ladder climbing was quite optimal:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/Em8SjVV.png[/img]

EDIT 2: I have two ideas for getting the perfect ladder climb without needing timing:
First off, don't do a first frame jump when entering the level just in case it messes up the timing;
A) Do a very VERY late jump onto the ladder, like 2-4 frames of jump before you cling onto the ladder late.
B) Do a good ladder jump, but while holding up very lightly tap down three times before the fireball is reached (I don't like this one, I can't seem to make the pauses consistent amounts)

2013-07-06 03:36:18 pm

We both like money! Friends?

I did a lot of testing with doing cascade "pro" for my ESA run, but there are so many pits to fall in. All in all it only saves 20 ish seconds IF you do it pro perfectly compared to the old strat (a bit modified). Problem is, doing it pro without any rewinds is almost impossible (for me at least), while getting the old strat without rewinding is not too hard at all. Actually, getting the first goomba jump was the reason I scrapped the idea. All the rest I got quite consistently, even the canon-ball jump when they ring is on the ground.

2013-07-06 05:42:30 pm

Quote from KanBan85:

I did a lot of testing with doing cascade "pro" for my ESA run, but there are so many pits to fall in. All in all it only saves 20 ish seconds IF you do it pro perfectly compared to the old strat (a bit modified). Problem is, doing it pro without any rewinds is almost impossible (for me at least), while getting the old strat without rewinding is not too hard at all. Actually, getting the first goomba jump was the reason I scrapped the idea. All the rest I got quite consistently, even the canon-ball jump when they ring is on the ground.

This is my experience too, the first goomba jump is very easy, the rest of it can be done with simple cues. But I think that if a way to arrive at the first goomba jump with a consistent, super optimal passage past the fireball can be found then pro cascade will be "solved".

2013-07-08 03:38:10 am

@Patashu > For the 1st goomba jump, my cue is further to the right: I jump when I reach the right side of the helmet! Then I turn back in the air almost instantely (the timing doesn't allow much time). For the rest of the level, if you have your cues, perfect! But don't forget that you cannot really train on a random fireball patern! Because canons are unsync, which means the timing is very specific to what you did before. So be sure to train at the right timing for the placement of the ring Wink

Also, the 1st ladder of "Cascade" is just a matter of timing. I have no specific technic, I sometimes fail it, but it doesn't have to be perfect Wink

you'll learn to notice if you failed it by practicing.

Edit history:

KanBan85: 2013-07-08 02:06:49 pm

2013-07-08 01:09:44 pm

We both like money! Friends?

Man p-why! Every time you make a post I expect to see pre 24:30, and you write other stuff Wink

Anyhow, finally got a new PB with 26:17! Very satisfied with this run. Last lvl went very smooth. Some errors in the beginning. I don't think I can go much under 26 min with my current strats.

Edit history:

Patashu: 2013-07-08 06:42:36 pm

2013-07-08 05:55:55 pm

Very nice time! Some notes of varying merit as I watch

World 2
0:42 If you start this chain of jumps earlier you can touch the puzzle piece further to the right, it might save a tiny amount of time or it might do nothing due to goomba cycles.
0:55 If I get to this puzzle piece fast enough I can jump off of the platform, slow myself, bounce, bounce and get the puzzle piece without having to wait for a later point in the cycle. Saves ~seconds.
1:18 If you do one bunnyhop can you keep boosted speed from the clouds at all?
2:03 Does killing the 6th goomba with an uppercut as opposed to a bounce save time in RTA or only in TAS? This is something I've been wondering about...
2:11 Could bunnyhop as you walk left like TAS. In particular if you jump at the puzzle board during your bunnyhops and open it up in mid air you save the time needed to make another jump
2:30 You can make it to the puzzle piece by hopping on three puzzle piece platforms instead of four if your placement is good (and there is a lot of leeway still)
3:21 You can bunnyhop uphill like the TAS (if nothing else, jumping from an uphill to the flat part on the top of the hill should save time, and I think if you do constant bunnyhops uphill you're not 'slowed' enough to make it not worth bunnyhopping)

World 3
3:51 Slightly more optimal strat will save <1 second (two bunnyhops at the start, 'repulsion' jump where you jump at the far end of the pit then pull left, drop onto the key, rewind to just before you averted landing on the far side of the pit and land)
4:20 TAS does one bunnyhop here (not sure if it has to be in a specific place to save time or if it doesn't matter)
4:32 Bunnyhop off of the cloud (don't be slowed down by it), bunnyhop off the cannon, try to hit the back of cannon #2, it's not too hard to get a type 2 corner boost if you're falling mostly down and it gives a nice boost
4:38 You can do a 'megaman jump' from the ledge down to the lever if you do it left of the orange butterfly to reach the lever a bit faster (since instead of falling off the ledge with 0 vertical velocity you are already falling from the peak of your jump)
5:00 Try learning the pro strat for "The Ground Beneath Her Feet" part 2, it saves four seconds if done perfectly and it's not very hard once you've learned it (one not precise cue, one precise cue that's not hard to learn, and if you hit the ledge below with a type 1 corner boost (Tim goes THUMP) you can save yourself by rewinding and attempting to jump since you got airjump state)
5:18 I think constant bunnyhopping (like TAS) saves frames
5:30 After a revelation from xfullmetal17, I realized the ladder glitches in this level are not hard at all.
You do it like this:
1) make sure Tim is slightly above the floor
2) Let go of up so Tim lets go
3) Immediately but strictly after hit jump (if you are holding up Tim will regrab the ladder instantly after a frame and mess you up)
4) A few frames after (Tim will be on the ground in normal state) hold up and right on the same frame (I thought you had to start holding right strictly after holding up, but it's very lenient, so you can just hold both at once)
5) 9 or less frames later hit jump (for the two ladder glitches in this level you can do it a few frames sooner than 9 for safety, but the 4-6 ladder glitch needs 8 or 9. However you are attempting this one way too soon, like 1-3 frames later, give yourself a few more frames, get a feel for what timing is possible and what timing is too late, 9 frames is a larger amount of time than you think)
Some tips:
-You have 9 frames (Tim starting to rise is the first frame) to do the ladder glitch on, if you try to do ladder glitches as late as possible you get a feel for what the timing is
-You don't have to wait as long as you are before attempting the ladder glitch, as soon as Tim is landed you can start 1st attempt
-If Tim is off-center on the ladder holding up (or down!) will make him walk towards it first, in the walking towards it state it's actually normal grounded state, it just makes Tim think you were holding right (or left) instead. But when he grabs onto the ladder it begins normal ladder glitch timing and you can be a tiny amount misaligned with the ladder and get onto it immediately (this is important for the ladder glitch in 5-4 in particular)

5:40ish in general I think bunnyhopping up hills is OK as long as you don't stop on them, since that's what the TAS does, so you can do a lot more bunnyhops here (basically constantly unless you need to time something) than you are and save frames.
5:50ish you can do an extra bunnyhop after vaulting over each fireball, and save frames
6:00 should be constantly bunnhopping here too imo Smiley

6:05 I think that if you turn around on the ground then make the jump for the puzzle piece it will save <1 second (haven't timed)
6:29 Instead of timing this jump do a bunnyhop, as long as you didn't bonk your head on the left side of the shaft I am convinced it is 100% safe and it means you don't have to worry about swerving away from the key
6:33 This rewind can be done as 8x imo, and the optimal time to release it is just before going through the first pirahna plant (so that you are waiting the least amount of real time for the pirahna plant cycle)
7:09 Constant bunnyhops?
7:33 I think going for that late fourth hit was slightly less safe than going for two on the second chandelier, this may just be personal preference
7:40 This is one place I'm not sure about atm, TAS does some bunnyhops up this hill but I'm not sure if they need to be well timed to save time in RTA or not.
8:10 To prevent this from happening (being slow and not taking the goomba's key), rewind to a further RIGHT point in the past to do the platform airjump off of. Because moving left on a platform moving right is slower than moving left in the air, you get to the goomba faster by rewinding to an earlier point = slightly safer.
8:16 Actually I was wondering about this before, I've heard jumping at doors can save time, do you know anything about why?

World 4
9:41 For this jump (from the box to behind the cannon) I like to turn around entirely on the box before making the jump, it feels a bit safer this way
9:45 You can save frames by jumping towards the green puzzle piece early, if you hit it on the side rather than on the top you can start the rewind earlier = frames saved.
9:54 Ooh! I didn't know about this corner boost (I go for the one you get off the right side of the box by late airjumping). I might have to see if this one is easier or not.
10:27 When doing the 'double bounce' in this level, if you are moving right/at a further right position on the second bounce it will save <0.5 second some times.
11:00 Rabbit jump plz Kappa (it gets easier with practice and knowing what cues you are aiming for)
12:00 You are more likely to pick up the green key if you approach it at 1x (as opposed to 2x, 4x or 8x). Reason is that the green key's physics are processed in real time, and if you are zooming past at 8x it's trying to attach to someone only every 8th of your in game frames. So slow down your rewind in anticipation of being about to pick it up (like in 3-8 "A Tingling" you slow down in anticipation of being about the right spot)
12:12 You can afford to be a little less dangerous with the big cloud, since you can get full 'running start speed' on the cloud and when you jump you have it, so you can actually leave the big cloud from quite far from the right edge.
12:20 pro fickle companion plz Kappa
13:45 Due to airjumping you can tap rewind for as little as one frame while leaving the ledge and immediately airjump
14:04 Do p_why strat for 5-2 "So Distant" part 2 (where you get a running start using a cue and uppercut the goomba as far right as possible, then rewind as little as possible to revive the goomba, so you are waiting as little time as possible for the goomba to walk left and make jumping up to the left possible). Will save ~1-2 seconds. In addition in part 1 of this level the only thing that slows you down is how much in game time + real time you rewound for, so you can minimize this a bit to save ~0.5sec
14:14 You forgot that you can get a corner boost off of the right side of this platform if you miss the one near the puzzle piece (I forget the cue but it's somewhere on the ropes)
14:18 Like in 3-4 "The Ground Beneath Her Feet", you can do another 'megaman jump' here, jump a bit past the third stripe and you'll be falling down the ledge faster. This will be realized in the form of needing to turn around in mid-air less to avoid bonking the right wall, saving time.
14:23 Doing this rewind at 8x could save <1 second.
14:26 You can start moving left before receiving the key & release the grill a bit earlier to save frames.
14:30 You forgot to try for corner boost (you jump from slightly before the right side of the door frame iirc)
14:33 same as 13:45
14:35 When on top of this slanted structure you should bunnyhop constantly like TAS to save frames.
14:40 When inside this slanted structure you should bunnyhop constantly like TAS to save frames (and again, 8x rewind is possible :o) )
14:55 You were slightly early, this is a pretty lenient trick to hit but you can't be quite that early
15:03 You can save a tiny amount of time by jumping at the purple goomba and landing in advance while it's still coming out.
15:10ish You can save a bunch of time by doing the p_why here, and going for the ladder glitch instead of needing the purple goomba to take the upper path.
Info about this ladder glitch:
-You don't need to line it up, you can start it by running toward the ladder with up held (or by tapping up when you're well overlapping with the ladder if it helps you time it)
-While you're on the ladder you MUST Let go of right, you can't start holding it until a bit after the jump begins
-The ladder glitch must be on 8th or 9th frame
-If you fail it you can line up and make one more try before needing to rewind (or one more try still if you're willing to later rewind after placing your shadow clone to bounce off of instead of making it and climbing up inormally)
-It's not as tough as a normal 2 frame trick since starting climbing the ladder is not that tight of a trick and you simply time to 8.5 frames after that, it's muscle memory for how far apart in time the two presses are, no other cues needed.
-If it feels like the ladder glitch was good but you bonk off the side of the corner, rewind and start holding right later than you did and you might make it.

15:34 You can do the TAS/p_why start to this level with a few bunnyhops, a very tiny pause then you bunnyhop up the 'stairs' (a slight turnaround is required still, even the TAS does it), this both saves frames and helps line up the bunnyhops up the stairs since you just need to make that tiny pause.
14:47 You can save up to 12 frames (so many frames!) by doing the TAS strat of pre-inputting the bunnyhop and before it even goes off begin the rewind, then your shadow will bunnyhop just like you WOULD have, since you're doing the same movement you would need to all you need to do is start rewind before the bunnyhop physically goes off
15:52 You can megaman down this ledge with a well timed bonk on the ceiling (p_why does it so steal his cue) and also start turning around in anticipation of needing to turn around after taking the lever, save <1 second
15:54 Do WR/p_why strat here, you want to get as many overhead slope boosts moving right here as possible, AND you also want to get the corner boost off of the right end of the first overhead block but NOT bunnyhop out of it (since then you bonk later)
16:04 Like TAS you can do a megaman jump down to the puzzle piece (the jump starts about half way along the last piece of 'cloth' Tim walks across) and save a bit of time if you curve it right. Also don't forget to bunnyhop rather than hesitate on your jump at the bottom.
16:21 I think this rewind is also worth doing at 8x. Save 1-2 seconds maybe?
Also I'm not sure if it's worth it to go for that corner boost - when it becomes shadow and you raise the platform under him, the corner boost turns into no boost, and so you have to move further/wait longer/the timing of how long to wait before pulling the lever is messed up... You actually had very good timing in this PB which was a surprise and nice to see Smiley

16:36 maybe one bunnyhop at the start?
16:42: Same as in 3-7 "Lair" you should try to get a slope boost off of that nice downhill when entering boss room.
16:56 I think this jump should have been a bunnyhop. See how you get stuck not being able to progress left because you're waiting to go higher - e.g. you should have started going higher sooner. <1 second.
17:05 You do not need to hesitate for this goomba Smiley

If you have a good plan for post-boss kill rushing to the lever and a good plan for where you should land your rewind, you can make it under the goomba (or time a jump over the goomba) and save seconds, + if you know you will not wait on the goomba you can synchronize shadow tim lever vs real time door better and not have to wait on someone as long. (In this PB your synchronization was good, but if you didn't have to wait you could synchronize with the time saved and go faster)
17:25 Like TAS, bunnyhops start here and go all the way to the end (making sure that your last jump is propelled off of the downhill just before the flag, delaying if needed. the diamond shapes make for a good cue)
18:19 I don't know if I would have rewound to kill the goomba... I would have just killed him later because then I wouldn't have been under the ring influence and super slooooww. It also messed your timing up for grabbing the key so you had to improvise and lose some time there too.
18:30 Maybe regrab the grill at a slightly lower position, because you can climb upwards while climbing right without losing time, so the only way to lose time is grabbing grill earlier than absolutely necessary.
18:32 It seems like you had the 'pick up the ring' cue for over a second before you picked it up. I'm on KB too so it's annoying that I can't pick it up as early as p_why, would you have regrabbed the grill if you tried it here? (I don't have Braid to play and check atm)
18:59 You can jump 3/4ths along the cloud instead of at the end and save frames.

I must stop giving notes here as I haven't learned the rest of the game yet Smiley

This is a great PB and an awesome time, but I think you can go much faster with tweaks and optimizations still Cheesy

I will be watching ESA ^^

Very nice time! Some notes of varying merit as I watch

World 2
0:42 If you start this chain of jumps earlier you can touch the puzzle piece further to the right, it might save a tiny amount of time or it might do nothing due to goomba cycles.
0:55 If I get to this puzzle piece fast enough I can jump off of the platform, slow myself, bounce, bounce and get the puzzle piece without having to wait for a later point in the cycle. Saves ~seconds.
1:18 If you do one bunnyhop can you keep boosted speed from the clouds at all?
2:03 Does killing the 6th goomba with an uppercut as opposed to a bounce save time in RTA or only in TAS? This is something I've been wondering about...
2:11 Could bunnyhop as you walk left like TAS. In particular if you jump at the puzzle board during your bunnyhops and open it up in mid air you save the time needed to make another jump
2:30 You can make it to the puzzle piece by hopping on three puzzle piece platforms instead of four if your placement is good (and there is a lot of leeway still)
3:21 You can bunnyhop uphill like the TAS (if nothing else, jumping from an uphill to the flat part on the top of the hill should save time, and I think if you do constant bunnyhops uphill you're not 'slowed' enough to make it not worth bunnyhopping)

World 3
3:51 Slightly more optimal strat will save <1 second (two bunnyhops at the start, 'repulsion' jump where you jump at the far end of the pit then pull left, drop onto the key, rewind to just before you averted landing on the far side of the pit and land)
4:20 TAS does one bunnyhop here (not sure if it has to be in a specific place to save time or if it doesn't matter)
4:32 Bunnyhop off of the cloud (don't be slowed down by it), bunnyhop off the cannon, try to hit the back of cannon #2, it's not too hard to get a type 2 corner boost if you're falling mostly down and it gives a nice boost
4:38 You can do a 'megaman jump' from the ledge down to the lever if you do it left of the orange butterfly to reach the lever a bit faster (since instead of falling off the ledge with 0 vertical velocity you are already falling from the peak of your jump)
5:00  Try learning the pro strat for "The Ground Beneath Her Feet" part 2, it saves four seconds if done perfectly and it's not very hard once you've learned it (one not precise cue, one precise cue that's not hard to learn, and if you hit the ledge below with a type 1 corner boost (Tim goes THUMP) you can save yourself by rewinding and attempting to jump since you got airjump state)
5:18 I think constant bunnyhopping (like TAS) saves frames
5:30 After a revelation from xfullmetal17, I realized the ladder glitches in this level are not hard at all.
You do it like this:
1) make sure Tim is slightly above the floor
2) Let go of up so Tim lets go
3) Immediately but strictly after hit jump (if you are holding up Tim will regrab the ladder instantly after a frame and mess you up)
4) A few frames after (Tim will be on the ground in normal state) hold up and right on the same frame (I thought you had to start holding right strictly after holding up, but it's very lenient, so you can just hold both at once)
5) 9 or less frames later hit jump (for the two ladder glitches in this level you can do it a few frames sooner than 9 for safety, but the 4-6 ladder glitch needs 8 or 9. However you are attempting this one way too soon, like 1-3 frames later, give yourself a few more frames, get a feel for what timing is possible and what timing is too late, 9 frames is a larger amount of time than you think)
Some tips:
-You have 9 frames (Tim starting to rise is the first frame) to do the ladder glitch on, if you try to do ladder glitches as late as possible you get a feel for what the timing is
-You don't have to wait as long as you are before attempting the ladder glitch, as soon as Tim is landed you can start 1st attempt
-If Tim is off-center on the ladder holding up (or down!) will make him walk towards it first, in the walking towards it state it's actually normal grounded state, it just makes Tim think you were holding right (or left) instead. But when he grabs onto the ladder it begins normal ladder glitch timing and you can be a tiny amount misaligned with the ladder and get onto it immediately (this is important for the ladder glitch in 5-4 in particular)

5:40ish in general I think bunnyhopping up hills is OK as long as you don't stop on them, since that's what the TAS does, so you can do a lot more bunnyhops here (basically constantly unless you need to time something) than you are and save frames.
5:50ish you can do an extra bunnyhop after vaulting over each fireball, and save frames
6:00 should be constantly bunnhopping here too imo :)
6:05 I think that if you turn around on the ground then make the jump for the puzzle piece it will save <1 second (haven't timed)
6:29 Instead of timing this jump do a bunnyhop, as long as you didn't bonk your head on the left side of the shaft I am convinced it is 100% safe and it means you don't have to worry about swerving away from the key
6:33 This rewind can be done as 8x imo, and the optimal time to release it is just before going through the first pirahna plant (so that you are waiting the least amount of real time for the pirahna plant cycle)
7:09 Constant bunnyhops?
7:33 I think going for that late fourth hit was slightly less safe than going for two on the second chandelier, this may just be personal preference
7:40 This is one place I'm not sure about atm, TAS does some bunnyhops up this hill but I'm not sure if they need to be well timed to save time in RTA or not.
8:10 To prevent this from happening (being slow and not taking the goomba's key), rewind to a further RIGHT point in the past to do the platform airjump off of. Because moving left on a platform moving right is slower than moving left in the air, you get to the goomba faster by rewinding to an earlier point = slightly safer.
8:16 Actually I was wondering about this before, I've heard jumping at doors can save time, do you know anything about why?

World 4
9:41 For this jump (from the box to behind the cannon) I like to turn around entirely on the box before making the jump, it feels a bit safer this way
9:45 You can save frames by jumping towards the green puzzle piece early, if you hit it on the side rather than on the top you can start the rewind earlier = frames saved.
9:54 Ooh! I didn't know about this corner boost (I go for the one you get off the right side of the box by late airjumping). I might have to see if this one is easier or not.
10:27 When doing the 'double bounce' in this level, if you are moving right/at a further right position on the second bounce it will save <0.5 second some times.
11:00 Rabbit jump plz Kappa (it gets easier with practice and knowing what cues you are aiming for)
12:00 You are more likely to pick up the green key if you approach it at 1x (as opposed to 2x, 4x or 8x). Reason is that the green key's physics are processed in real time, and if you are zooming past at 8x it's trying to attach to someone only every 8th of your in game frames. So slow down your rewind in anticipation of being about to pick it up (like in 3-8 "A Tingling" you slow down in anticipation of being about the right spot)
12:12 You can afford to be a little less dangerous with the big cloud, since you can get full 'running start speed' on the cloud and when you jump you have it, so you can actually leave the big cloud from quite far from the right edge.
12:20 pro fickle companion plz Kappa
13:45 Due to airjumping you can tap rewind for as little as one frame while leaving the ledge and immediately airjump
14:04 Do p_why strat for 5-2 "So Distant" part 2 (where you get a running start using a cue and uppercut the goomba as far right as possible, then rewind as little as possible to revive the goomba, so you are waiting as little time as possible for the goomba to walk left and make jumping up to the left possible). Will save ~1-2 seconds. In addition in part 1 of this level the only thing that slows you down is how much in game time + real time you rewound for, so you can minimize this a bit to save ~0.5sec
14:14 You forgot that you can get a corner boost off of the right side of this platform if you miss the one near the puzzle piece (I forget the cue but it's somewhere on the ropes)
14:18 Like in 3-4 "The Ground Beneath Her Feet", you can do another 'megaman jump' here, jump a bit past the third stripe and you'll be falling down the ledge faster. This will be realized in the form of needing to turn around in mid-air less to avoid bonking the right wall, saving time.
14:23 Doing this rewind at 8x could save <1 second.
14:26 You can start moving left before receiving the key & release the grill a bit earlier to save frames.
14:30 You forgot to try for corner boost (you jump from slightly before the right side of the door frame iirc)
14:33 same as 13:45
14:35 When on top of this slanted structure you should bunnyhop constantly like TAS to save frames.
14:40 When inside this slanted structure you should bunnyhop constantly like TAS to save frames (and again, 8x rewind is possible :o) )
14:55 You were slightly early, this is a pretty lenient trick to hit but you can't be quite that early
15:03 You can save a tiny amount of time by jumping at the purple goomba and landing in advance while it's still coming out.
15:10ish You can save a bunch of time by doing the p_why here, and going for the ladder glitch instead of needing the purple goomba to take the upper path.
Info about this ladder glitch:
-You don't need to line it up, you can start it by running toward the ladder with up held (or by tapping up when you're well overlapping with the ladder if it helps you time it)
-While you're on the ladder you MUST Let go of right, you can't start holding it until a bit after the jump begins
-The ladder glitch must be on 8th or 9th frame
-If you fail it you can line up and make one more try before needing to rewind (or one more try still if you're willing to later rewind after placing your shadow clone to bounce off of instead of making it and climbing up inormally)
-It's not as tough as a normal 2 frame trick since starting climbing the ladder is not that tight of a trick and you simply time to 8.5 frames after that, it's muscle memory for how far apart in time the two presses are, no other cues needed.
-If it feels like the ladder glitch was good but you bonk off the side of the corner, rewind and start holding right later than you did and you might make it.

15:34 You can do the TAS/p_why start to this level with a few bunnyhops, a very tiny pause then you bunnyhop up the 'stairs' (a slight turnaround is required still, even the TAS does it), this both saves frames and helps line up the bunnyhops up the stairs since you just need to make that tiny pause.
14:47 You can save up to 12 frames (so many frames!) by doing the TAS strat of pre-inputting the bunnyhop and before it even goes off begin the rewind, then your shadow will bunnyhop just like you WOULD have, since you're doing the same movement you would need to all you need to do is start rewind before the bunnyhop physically goes off
15:52 You can megaman down this ledge with a well timed bonk on the ceiling (p_why does it so steal his cue) and also start turning around in anticipation of needing to turn around after taking the lever, save <1 second
15:54 Do WR/p_why strat here, you want to get as many overhead slope boosts moving right here as possible, AND you also want to get the corner boost off of the right end of the first overhead block but NOT bunnyhop out of it (since then you bonk later)
16:04 Like TAS you can do a megaman jump down to the puzzle piece (the jump starts about half way along the last piece of 'cloth' Tim walks across) and save a bit of time if you curve it right. Also don't forget to bunnyhop rather than hesitate on your jump at the bottom.
16:21 I think this rewind is also worth doing at 8x. Save 1-2 seconds maybe?
Also I'm not sure if it's worth it to go for that corner boost - when it becomes shadow and you raise the platform under him, the corner boost turns into no boost, and so you have to move further/wait longer/the timing of how long to wait before pulling the lever is messed up... You actually had very good timing in this PB which was a surprise and nice to see :)
16:36 maybe one bunnyhop at the start?
16:42: Same as in 3-7 "Lair" you should try to get a slope boost off of that nice downhill when entering boss room.
16:56 I think this jump should have been a bunnyhop. See how you get stuck not being able to progress left because you're waiting to go higher - e.g. you should have started going higher sooner. <1 second.
17:05 You do not need to hesitate for this goomba :) If you have a good plan for post-boss kill rushing to the lever and a good plan for where you should land your rewind, you can make it under the goomba (or time a jump over the goomba) and save seconds, + if you know you will not wait on the goomba you can synchronize shadow tim lever vs real time door better and not have to wait on someone as long. (In this PB your synchronization was good, but if you didn't have to wait you could synchronize with the time saved and go faster)
17:25 Like TAS, bunnyhops start here and go all the way to the end (making sure that your last jump is propelled off of the downhill just before the flag, delaying if needed. the diamond shapes make for a good cue)
18:19 I don't know if I would have rewound to kill the goomba... I would have just killed him later because then I wouldn't have been under the ring influence and super slooooww. It also messed your timing up for grabbing the key so you had to improvise and lose some time there too.
18:30 Maybe regrab the grill at a slightly lower position, because you can climb upwards while climbing right without losing time, so the only way to lose time is grabbing grill earlier than absolutely necessary.
18:32 It seems like you had the 'pick up the ring' cue for over a second before you picked it up. I'm on KB too so it's annoying that I can't pick it up as early as p_why, would you have regrabbed the grill if you tried it here? (I don't have Braid to play and check atm)
18:59 You can jump 3/4ths along the cloud instead of at the end and save frames.

I must stop giving notes here as I haven't learned the rest of the game yet :) This is a great PB and an awesome time, but I think you can go much faster with tweaks and optimizations still :D I will be watching ESA ^^

2013-07-09 01:26:52 am

We both like money! Friends?

Wow. You are through. So I'll be as well Smiley

World 2
0:42 - yes I can work on this, but the farther right the first goomba you need to hit is the harder it is to land right to get the goomba cycle at 0:55, so I don't think it matters that much. The goomba jump in 0:55 is much more important to get right, and I did mess that one up, and I do know how to do that one right.
1:18 - It helps with a bunnyhop but it might mess up the following bunnyhops over the next three clouds. I actually just forgot here though.
2:03 - killing goombas uppercut is very risky in SS and saves very little time. I would never recommend it, but I have learned how to do it.
2:11 - First: I try not to bunnyjump much uphill at all. Maybe a bad idea? Second: in this particular case, you actually want to not rush too hard to the puzzle. If you do the two first jumps too fast you can "out of rythm" with the goomba and might end up moving his piece away before he is on it.
2:30 - Three pieces instead of four is a bit more risky, and you usually still have to wait before you can jump on the goomba anyway.
3:21 - Again, does it really help to bunnyjump uphill? I thought you'd lose speed then.

World 3
3:51 - I tried this strat but found it a bit inconsistent and more risky for me.
4:20 - Well, I do "slow" a tad when I land so it might help me maintain speed, but this level has a long wait later for non-TAS so I'm not sure if it actually saves any time in SS.
4:32 - Yeah, just a plain mistake.
4:38 - Oh, yeah. Never thought about that. Thanks Smiley

5:00 - No

Too risky for marathon. I have practiced it quite a bit actually, and I am quite good at it as well, but I HATE getting stuck up there which happens sometimes and that would really suck in the marathon.
5.18 - Again, uphill.
5:30 - I usually get this on first or second try. Just messed up a bit.
5:40 - you've got to be a bit careful here actually. I stop because you never want to jump from downhill or flat to uphill, then Tim slowes down.
5:50 - I sometimes to this. Also a bit risky since you can get hit by a fireball if you don't jump in the right time.
6:00 - Not enough slope for extra speed at the last part here.
6:05 - Yeah. I should practice that.
6:29 - Not sure I understand, but I have a very consistent strat here which works well for me.
6:33 - x8 here has lost me a lot of times sometimes. I am horribly bad at timing rewinds so I like to keep this one safe.
7:09 - Uphill
7:33 - The chandeliers are just "wing it!" Smiley

Not completely though, I do know I should not try too many hits with the first for too long or else I lose the ability to hit right away with the second.
8:10 - I know about this. I always want to be as far left as possible at first though, since I can always rewind to a further right point if needed but never further left if I am too far right. I am going for "safe".
8:16 - Yes I do. Sometimes, for some reason unknown to me, if you just walk through the door you sometimes get stuck for a few frames as you open it. That never happens if you are in the air (at least not as often).

World 4
9:41 - I have my method here. I could experiment a bit.
9:45 - yeah, I used to jump even later Wink

9:54 - There are tow different boosts here depending on when you jump. Both are very hard to get consistently, and I think the one I got is the best one. I just know : "Jump towards the end of the canon and you might get lucky" Smiley

10:27 - OK, but my beef with this lvl at is just getting every jump right.
11:00 - Again. Too risky for marathon. I've tried practicing the rabbit jump a lot (ask p_why Wink

) but I cannot get it consistently. He has given me all the cues and we skyped about it, but I still mess it up.
12:00 - Oh, did not now that. Makes sense!
12:12 - I usually am less risky on it.
12:20 - No way! Way to risky.
13:45 - Yes, but I've tried to be fancy here before and messed up.
14:04 - lol, I am doing his strat, just messing up a little Smiley

Also though, the "rewind very close to when you jump" must be done with caution, if you rewind to little you have to start all over again.
14:14 - Yes I did, I usually try, but I have no good cue (and I probably won't spend time finding one...)
14:23 - Very risky with x8 rewind here. This is important to remember: x8 rewinds can save very little time if you do them perfectly but they can lose you a lot of time if you mess up just a tiny bit.
14:26 - Yes I can, but I can also move even earlier and miss the key completely resulting in having to do the whole thing over again. Again, I like to be safe.
14:30 - Corner boost here???
14:55 - I know, messed up.
15:10 - There is a good reason I invented my own strat here. I simply cannot to this ladder glitch. This one is much more difficult than the ones in world 3. This one you must get it at the very last frames and I very often just get stuck here. This "new" old strat I use here is pretty much the best I can do without the ladder glitch. I only lose 4 seconds I think compared to the "pro" way.
15:47 - I Kinda do that, but trying to do it "perfect" is incredibly risky since you have to do a lot of work if you rewind too early. I would never recommend trying to get "12 frames before exact" in a SS run.
15:52 - Ofc. Thanks Smiley

16:04 - I don't think I'll ever pull the TAS one off here, but I usually am better with jumping right away.
16:21 - This rewind is actually very dangerous at x8 unless you are 100% certain you know what you're doing. If you rewind too little, you have to go up the ladder a little and shaddow Tim will most likley hit the switch in the air before he is up. If you rewind too much you lose some time.
16:36 - I did...
16:56 - should not matter.
17:05 - Oh I do... I have messed up countless runs by being too overeager on getting past this goomba, believe me.
18:19 - I have a very specific strat to net get stuck at the end with too many goombas and it requires me killing that goomba.
18:30 - yeah.
18:32 - This is a pain for me. I am running on PC which means that grabbing the ring and the grill is the same button. If you try to grab the ring right away I grab the grill instead. This is the only place in the whole game that having a x-box controller will definitely save you time.
18:59 - Also risky. I've tried to jump earlier, but sometimes I end up not landing on the next cloud.

One thing to always keep in mind as a speedrunner. Some math Smiley

The more things you do with not 100% probability of success, the more probable you will make mistakes in total. That's why I like to be safe and not try to do risky things that will only save me <1 second.

Wow. You are through. So I'll be as well :)

World 2
0:42 - yes I can work on this, but the farther right the first goomba you need to hit is the harder it is to land right to get the goomba cycle at 0:55, so I don't think it matters that much. The goomba jump in 0:55 is much more important to get right, and I did mess that one up, and I do know how to do that one right.
1:18 - It helps with a bunnyhop but it might mess up the following bunnyhops over the next three clouds. I actually just forgot here though.
2:03 - killing goombas uppercut is very risky in SS and saves very little time. I would never recommend it, but I have learned how to do it.
2:11 - First: I try not to bunnyjump much uphill at all. Maybe a bad idea? Second: in this particular case, you actually want to not rush too hard to the puzzle. If you do the two first jumps too fast you can "out of rythm" with the goomba and might end up moving his piece away before he is on it.
2:30 - Three pieces instead of four is a bit more risky, and you usually still have to wait before you can jump on the goomba anyway.
3:21 - Again, does it really help to bunnyjump uphill? I thought you'd lose speed then.

World 3
3:51 - I tried this strat but found it a bit inconsistent and more risky for me.
4:20 - Well, I do "slow" a tad when I land so it might help me maintain speed, but this level has a long wait later for non-TAS so I'm not sure if it actually saves any time in SS.
4:32 - Yeah, just a plain mistake.
4:38 - Oh, yeah. Never thought about that. Thanks :)
5:00 - No :) Too risky for marathon. I have practiced it quite a bit actually, and I am quite good at it as well, but I HATE getting stuck up there which happens sometimes and that would really suck in the marathon. 
5.18 - Again, uphill.
5:30 - I usually get this on first or second try. Just messed up a bit.
5:40 - you've got to be a bit careful here actually. I stop because you never want to jump from downhill or flat to uphill, then Tim slowes down.
5:50 - I sometimes to this. Also a bit risky since you can get hit by a fireball if you don't jump in the right time.
6:00 - Not enough slope for extra speed at the last part here.
6:05 - Yeah. I should practice that.
6:29 - Not sure I understand, but I have a very consistent strat here which works well for me.
6:33 - x8 here has lost me a lot of times sometimes. I am horribly bad at timing rewinds so I like to keep this one safe.
7:09 - Uphill
7:33 - The chandeliers are just "wing it!"  :) Not completely though, I do know I should not try too many hits with the first for too long or else I lose the ability to hit right away with the second.
8:10 - I know about this. I always want to be as far left as possible at first though, since I can always rewind to a further right point if needed but never further left if I am too far right. I am going for "safe".
8:16 - Yes I do. Sometimes, for some reason unknown to me, if you just walk through the door you sometimes get stuck for a few frames as you open it. That never happens if you are in the air (at least not as often).

World 4
9:41 - I have my method here. I could experiment a bit.
9:45 - yeah, I used to jump even later ;)
9:54 - There are tow different boosts here depending on when you jump. Both are very hard to get consistently, and I think the one I got is the best one. I just know : "Jump towards the end of the canon and you might get lucky" :)
10:27 - OK, but my beef with this lvl at is just getting every jump right.
11:00 - Again. Too risky for marathon. I've tried practicing the rabbit jump a lot (ask p_why ;) ) but I cannot get it consistently. He has given me all the cues and we skyped about it, but I still mess it up. 
12:00 - Oh, did not now that. Makes sense!
12:12 - I usually am less risky on it.
12:20 - No way! Way to risky.
13:45 - Yes, but I've tried to be fancy here before and messed up.
14:04 - lol, I am doing his strat, just messing up a little :) Also though, the "rewind very close to when you jump" must be done with caution, if you rewind to little you have to start all over again.
14:14 - Yes I did, I usually try, but I have no good cue (and I probably won't spend time finding one...)
14:23 - Very risky with x8 rewind here. This is important to remember: x8 rewinds can save very little time if you do them perfectly but they can lose you a lot of time if you mess up just a tiny bit.
14:26 - Yes I can, but I can also move even earlier and miss the key completely resulting in having to do the whole thing over again. Again, I like to be safe. 
14:30 - Corner boost here???
14:55 - I know, messed up. 
15:10 - There is a good reason I invented my own strat here. I simply cannot to this ladder glitch. This one is much more difficult than the ones in world 3. This one you must get it at the very last frames and I very often just get stuck here. This "new" old strat I use here is pretty much the best I can do without the ladder glitch. I only lose 4 seconds I think compared to the "pro" way.
15:47 - I Kinda do that, but trying to do it "perfect" is incredibly risky since you have to do a lot of work if you rewind too early. I would never recommend trying to get "12 frames before exact" in a SS run.
15:52 - Ofc. Thanks :)
16:04 - I don't think I'll ever pull the TAS one off here, but I usually am better with jumping right away.
16:21 - This rewind is actually very dangerous at x8 unless you are 100% certain you know what you're doing. If you rewind too little, you have to go up the ladder a little and shaddow Tim will most likley hit the switch in the air before he is up. If you rewind too much you lose some time.
16:36  - I did...
16:56 - should not matter.
17:05 - Oh I do... I have messed up countless runs by being too overeager on getting past this goomba, believe me.
18:19 - I have a very specific strat to net get stuck at the end with too many goombas and it requires me killing that goomba.
18:30 - yeah.
18:32 - This is a pain for me. I am running on PC which means that grabbing the ring and the grill is the same button. If you try to grab the ring right away I grab the grill instead. This is the only place in the whole game that having a x-box controller will definitely save you time. 
18:59 - Also risky. I've tried to jump earlier, but sometimes I end up not landing on the next cloud.

One thing to always keep in mind as a speedrunner. Some math :) The more things you do with not 100% probability of success, the more probable you will make mistakes in total. That's why I like to be safe and not try to do risky things that will only save me <1 second.

Edit history:

Patashu: 2013-07-09 04:15:23 am

Patashu: 2013-07-09 04:11:16 am

2013-07-09 04:10:56 am

Sorry, this is long due to all the quote boxes, but it's more coherent to read for me this way:

Quote:

2:03 - killing goombas uppercut is very risky in SS and saves very little time. I would never recommend it, but I have learned how to do it.

Risky as in 'you might lose more time than you tried to save'?

Quote:

2:11 - First: I try not to bunnyjump much uphill at all. Maybe a bad idea?

Bunnyhopping uphill for all comments related to it: I didn't think it would be worth it until I saw the TAS do it so much and noticed the merit in it. I think in general bunnyhopping uphill is fine assuming you don't have to interrupt the bunnyhop chain, if you do have to stop bunnyhopping it's not as obvious if you want to do it or not. The only other objectionable reason I can see is if you have to bunnyhop at a specific start or lose time, but there isn't anything fancy about the slope design in Braid (if you look in the level editor it's just a bunch of connected slopes, no curves or anything) so I would be surprised by this too.
(Obviously please step in and correct me p_why/keylie/archanfel if I am totally off base or missing something here :), the math of uphill slope braking vs not having to walk on the slope is not all that clear )

Quote:

4:20 - Well, I do "slow" a tad when I land so it might help me maintain speed, but this level has a long wait later for non-TAS so I'm not sure if it actually saves any time in SS.

The faster you are in in-level time you are when you make the final jump and pause, the further right you jumped off the last cloud, the less frames you have to wait for the green cloud to be under your feet and continue. So it saves the frames Smiley

Quote:

5:00 - No Too risky for marathon. I have practiced it quite a bit actually, and I am quite good at it as well, but I HATE getting stuck up there which happens sometimes and that would really suck in the marathon.

With the correct cues and the ability to airjump out of a type 1 corner boost hitting the ledge below it's 3-4 frames wide and pretty consistent. From where you jump you always aim the turnaround for the same spot and it's got a good visual cue being nice and close by a discrete amount from the nail in the floor. But, the strat you are using is kind of cool as well (jumping from thin air, hax!) so it's up to you in the end.

Quote:

5.18 - Again, uphill.

I just watched the TAS again - it's bunnyhopping almost everywhere on this level. It only stops bunnyhopping to line up a jump (e.g. to not hit a bunny - to get more bunnyhops :), microptimizations around flat areas, get a corner boost, don't die, etc) pretty much. So I think bunnyhopping everywhere saves frames over bunnyhopping less. Also I noticed something cool watching the TAS again...

Quote:

6:05 - Yeah. I should practice that.

As soon as it's on the upper platform for puzzle piece 2 it jumps and turns around in mid air. So that's probably faster than doing the turn around on the ground Smiley

I'll have to practice that and see. Sorry for misinformation Smiley

Quote:

8:10 - I know about this. I always want to be as far left as possible at first though, since I can always rewind to a further right point if needed but never further left if I am too far right. I am going for "safe".

Indeed it's better to be safe than sorry here, but you can make it from a surprisingly far distance to the right as long as you rewound to a time when you were facing left (it's because when Tim leaves the platform he moving at maximum speed left, + 9 frames to airjump in, = a lot of distance) so I think you can be more dangerous here than you think you can.

Quote:

8:16 - Yes I do. Sometimes, for some reason unknown to me, if you just walk through the door you sometimes get stuck for a few frames as you open it. That never happens if you are in the air (at least not as often).

Interesting, I've observed the 'hit the door on the same frame you open it' glitch too. If it happens less in the air I'll have to practice.

Quote:

10:27 - OK, but my beef with this lvl at is just getting every jump right.

Yeah, it's tough to line up jumps on things that are moving under you at the same speed in the opposite direction if you're not used to it. You need to focus on 'the goomba will be here, I want to land above this point on the ground' rather than trying to watch the goomba move in real time and that makes it a bit better.

Quote:

11:00 - Again. Too risky for marathon. I've tried practicing the rabbit jump a lot (ask p_why ) but I cannot get it consistently. He has given me all the cues and we skyped about it, but I still mess it up.

Np, cool. Some people are better at some tricks than others. (Random idea: For glitches and routes that aren't consistent, you could show them off after your run as a bonus)

Quote:

14:04 - lol, I am doing his strat, just messing up a little Also though, the "rewind very close to when you jump" must be done with caution, if you rewind to little you have to start all over again.

Ok

And yeah, for that reason I always do my rewinds in world 5 a bit on the conservative side.

Quote:

14:14 - Yes I did, I usually try, but I have no good cue (and I probably won't spend time finding one...)

Quote:

14:30 - Corner boost here???

No need to spend time, here are all my cue screenshots for world 5: http://imgur.com/a/XHvfy

Quote:

15:47 - I Kinda do that, but trying to do it "perfect" is incredibly risky since you have to do a lot of work if you rewind too early. I would never recommend trying to get "12 frames before exact" in a SS run.

Yeah, optimal would be like - 12 frames before jump, 11 frames before hit rewind, but for me it's usually more like 6 frames before jump 3 frames before hit rewind or whatever. So it is only a frame saver (though compare it to visually waiting for the jump to come out before rewinding and it saves double digit frames sometimes! Smiley

)

Quote:

16:21 - This rewind is actually very dangerous at x8 unless you are 100% certain you know what you're doing. If you rewind too little, you have to go up the ladder a little and shaddow Tim will most likley hit the switch in the air before he is up. If you rewind too much you lose some time.

You're probably right in that if you time hitting the lever very precisely you have to make the rewind exact, and if you don't time it so precisely you can be more wild on the rewind (like me atm). Not sure which is faster.

Quote:

16:36 - I did...

Sorry, I meant to say 'one bunnyhop after the inital entry jump', as I don't consider the first jump a bunnyhop yet

Quote:

17:05 - Oh I do... I have messed up countless runs by being too overeager on getting past this goomba, believe me.

Ow

Yeah, if you die to the goomba you've lost 7+ seconds. That does not sound fun at all.

Thank you for this discussion, I've learned a lot Smiley

Sorry, this is long due to all the quote boxes, but it's more coherent to read for me this way:

[quote]2:03 - killing goombas uppercut is very risky in SS and saves very little time. I would never recommend it, but I have learned how to do it.[/quote]
Risky as in 'you might lose more time than you tried to save'?
[quote]2:11 - First: I try not to bunnyjump much uphill at all. Maybe a bad idea?[/quote]
Bunnyhopping uphill for all comments related to it: I didn't think it would be worth it until I saw the TAS do it so much and noticed the merit in it. I think in general bunnyhopping uphill is fine assuming you don't have to interrupt the bunnyhop chain, if you do have to stop bunnyhopping it's not as obvious if you want to do it or not. The only other objectionable reason I can see is if you have to bunnyhop at a specific start or lose time, but there isn't anything fancy about the slope design in Braid (if you look in the level editor it's just a bunch of connected slopes, no curves or anything) so I would be surprised by this too.
(Obviously please step in and correct me p_why/keylie/archanfel if I am totally off base or missing something here :), the math of uphill slope braking vs not having to walk on the slope is not all that clear )

[quote]4:20 - Well, I do "slow" a tad when I land so it might help me maintain speed, but this level has a long wait later for non-TAS so I'm not sure if it actually saves any time in SS.[/quote]
The faster you are in in-level time you are when you make the final jump and pause, the further right you jumped off the last cloud, the less frames you have to wait for the green cloud to be under your feet and continue. So it saves the frames :)
[quote]5:00 - No  Too risky for marathon. I have practiced it quite a bit actually, and I am quite good at it as well, but I HATE getting stuck up there which happens sometimes and that would really suck in the marathon. [/quote]
With the correct cues and the ability to airjump out of a type 1 corner boost hitting the ledge below it's 3-4 frames wide and pretty consistent. From where you jump you always aim the turnaround for the same spot and it's got a good visual cue being nice and close by a discrete amount from the nail in the floor. But, the strat you are using is kind of cool as well (jumping from thin air, hax!) so it's up to you in the end.
[quote]5.18 - Again, uphill.[/quote]
I just watched the TAS again - it's bunnyhopping almost everywhere on this level. It only stops bunnyhopping to line up a jump (e.g. to not hit a bunny - to get more bunnyhops :), microptimizations around flat areas, get a corner boost, don't die, etc) pretty much. So I think bunnyhopping everywhere saves frames over bunnyhopping less. Also I noticed something cool watching the TAS again...
[quote]6:05 - Yeah. I should practice that.[/quote]
As soon as it's on the upper platform for puzzle piece 2 it jumps and turns around in mid air. So that's probably faster than doing the turn around on the ground :) I'll have to practice that and see. Sorry for misinformation :)

[quote]8:10 - I know about this. I always want to be as far left as possible at first though, since I can always rewind to a further right point if needed but never further left if I am too far right. I am going for "safe".[/quote]
Indeed it's better to be safe than sorry here, but you can make it from a surprisingly far distance to the right as long as you rewound to a time when you were facing left (it's because when Tim leaves the platform he moving at maximum speed left, + 9 frames to airjump in, = a lot of distance) so I think you can be more dangerous here than you think you can.

[quote]8:16 - Yes I do. Sometimes, for some reason unknown to me, if you just walk through the door you sometimes get stuck for a few frames as you open it. That never happens if you are in the air (at least not as often).[/quote]
Interesting, I've observed the 'hit the door on the same frame you open it' glitch too. If it happens less in the air I'll have to practice.

[quote]10:27 - OK, but my beef with this lvl at is just getting every jump right.[/quote]
Yeah, it's tough to line up jumps on things that are moving under you at the same speed in the opposite direction if you're not used to it. You need to focus on 'the goomba will be here, I want to land above this point on the ground' rather than trying to watch the goomba move in real time and that makes it a bit better.

[quote]11:00 - Again. Too risky for marathon. I've tried practicing the rabbit jump a lot (ask p_why  ) but I cannot get it consistently. He has given me all the cues and we skyped about it, but I still mess it up. [/quote]
Np, cool. Some people are better at some tricks than others. (Random idea: For glitches and routes that aren't consistent, you could show them off after your run as a bonus)

[quote]14:04 - lol, I am doing his strat, just messing up a little  Also though, the "rewind very close to when you jump" must be done with caution, if you rewind to little you have to start all over again.[/quote]
Ok :) And yeah, for that reason I always do my rewinds in world 5 a bit on the conservative side.

[quote]14:14 - Yes I did, I usually try, but I have no good cue (and I probably won't spend time finding one...)[/quote]
[quote]14:30 - Corner boost here???[/quote]
No need to spend time, here are all my cue screenshots for world 5: http://imgur.com/a/XHvfy

[quote]15:47 - I Kinda do that, but trying to do it "perfect" is incredibly risky since you have to do a lot of work if you rewind too early. I would never recommend trying to get "12 frames before exact" in a SS run.[/quote]
Yeah, optimal would be like - 12 frames before jump, 11 frames before hit rewind, but for me it's usually more like 6 frames before jump 3 frames before hit rewind or whatever. So it is only a frame saver (though compare it to visually waiting for the jump to come out before rewinding and it saves double digit frames sometimes! :) )

[quote]16:21 - This rewind is actually very dangerous at x8 unless you are 100% certain you know what you're doing. If you rewind too little, you have to go up the ladder a little and shaddow Tim will most likley hit the switch in the air before he is up. If you rewind too much you lose some time.[/quote]
You're probably right in that if you time hitting the lever very precisely you have to make the rewind exact, and if you don't time it so precisely you can be more wild on the rewind (like me atm). Not sure which is faster.

[quote]16:36  - I did...[/quote]
Sorry, I meant to say 'one bunnyhop after the inital entry jump', as I don't consider the first jump a bunnyhop yet

[quote]17:05 - Oh I do... I have messed up countless runs by being too overeager on getting past this goomba, believe me.[/quote]
Ow :( Yeah, if you die to the goomba you've lost 7+ seconds. That does not sound fun at all.

Thank you for this discussion, I've learned a lot :)

2013-07-09 12:23:16 pm

We both like money! Friends?

Yeah, I learned a thing or two as well, especially trying to do more of the "Megaman" jumps where they are appropriate. P_why, Keylie or Archanfel, can one you tell us if it helps to bunnyjump uphill?
Also, 2:03 - Yes, risky in the senses that you will save very little by getting it right and lose more by getting it wrong and also it is rare to get right.

2013-07-09 01:29:28 pm

Quote from KanBan85:

P_why, Keylie or Archanfel, can one you tell us if it helps to bunnyjump uphill?

Keylie could probably give more details about that question, but it depends on the slope. Sometimes it's usefull, sometimes not. Basically I would just copy the TAS Wink

2013-07-13 02:45:57 pm

We both like money! Friends?

And another new PB: 26:14 - only 3 sec better than the last one, but I am overall much more pleased with this run. Also, my last 5 runs in a row has been sub 27 now so I feel much more confident about ESA