Braid

2013-04-22 10:29:50 am

Quote from P-why:

MEEEEEN ! I just stream Braid this afternoon and I performed a 25:34 :'D with a lot of fails in the beginning and almost got trolled at the end ! I'll give you the link asap !

That's awesome !! I'm really sad I missed that.

Here is stage 6-6:

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-05-22 09:36:14 am

Archanfel: 2013-05-22 08:42:42 am

Archanfel: 2013-05-04 07:59:39 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-23 07:14:17 am

2013-04-22 11:40:14 am

Quote from P-why:

MEEEEEN ! I just stream Braid this afternoon and I performed a 25:34

Congrats!!!

+Historical note about Braid SS WRs:

27:54:08 by AFewGoodTaters (2010-10-XX)
27:50.70 by palfo32 (2011-05-XX) {current SDA run}
27:29.50 by foaloal (2011-07-XX)
27:02.78 by palfo32 (2012-01-XX)
27:00.XX by palfo32 (2013-03-12)
26:15.43 by palfo32 (2013-04-11)
25:57.22 by palfo32 (2013-04-20)
25:34.85 by P-why (2013-04-22)
25:27.58 by P-why (2013-04-23)

---

Quote from keylie:

stage 6-6

Awesome work, you succeed at absolutely all tricks in this room! Cheesy

P-why

2013-04-23 03:25:18 am

Oh my... I just wanted to perform my morning run, and I actually did SUB 25:30 !!! The exact IGT is 25:27.58 !!! I recorded it and I'm gonna watch to see if anything went wrong during the record, but I'll upload the run today on my YT channel and read SDA conditions to submit a run Smiley

Blazier

Edit history:

Blazier: 2013-04-23 10:35:50 am

Blazier: 2013-04-23 10:35:49 am

2013-04-23 10:35:41 am

Nice run! The best bit is when you make all of the boosts on the final level on the first try.

keylie

2013-04-24 05:14:40 am

Stage 6-7:

Sorry Archanfel, I couldn't do the other trick. One problem is that there seems to be only one key to remove the ring when using the keyboard (down key). So when I'm climbing and I want to take the ring back, I need to hit jump+down, then up to take the ladder back, which costs 2 frames.

Blazier

2013-04-24 05:35:39 am

Too bad Hourglass doesn't support controller input...

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-04-28 08:59:33 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-28 07:42:40 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-28 07:42:18 am

2013-04-24 07:38:13 am

Quote from keylie:

I couldn't do the other trick.

It not your guilt, that second skip at 6-7 is not workable. So no reasons to say sorry.

Btw i estimated sum total of all your WIPs - final result will be about 21:4X.XX IGT Cheesy

---
Now time to go into World 1 and catch the princess!

Patashu

2013-04-28 04:01:12 am

I have a question about the ring. Is the ring's slowdown effect discrete or continuous? What I mean is, when I see fireballs shoot past the ring I've laid down I swear they do full speed right until they hit a certain distance to the ring, then they half speed, then they (third? quarter?) speed, and the pattern reverses as they fly away from it. Do all things slowed down by the ring fall in bands of 'slow down by exactly this much if you're between distance A and B'?

P-why

2013-04-28 04:19:16 am

@Patashu > I'm not sure to understant well what you mean but imo the ring effect is progressive, and relative to the position. I mean anything that gets closer is slowed down progressively and gains back their speed progressively. I think I never noticed something going back to normal speed "in 1 frame" (but once again I'm not sure I understant what you mean, tell me if I'm wrong)!

Patashu

Edit history:

Patashu: 2013-04-28 08:29:16 am

Patashu: 2013-04-28 08:26:26 am

Patashu: 2013-04-28 08:07:49 am

2013-04-28 08:06:59 am

Ok, so I just timed the speed of fireballs and goomba cannons for... ok it's easily been two hours now. haha. here's everything I found

1) Everything within the ring's 'pink circle' is at 0.20 speed. For example, the cannon at the top left of Cascade in world 6 is normally 1 goomba/1.5 sec, with the ring covering the fuse it's /7.5 sec.

2) objects with their centers further away than the pink edge of the visual radius suffer time dilation as follows:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Mechadragon/timtimedilation2_zps49a1d03b.png

3) the 9 frames after you go from grounded to non-grounded state you have to airjump in (origin of ladder glitch etc) are not time dilated e.g. you don't get 45 frames to airjump while within the ring.

4) noticed something unrelated: movement of goombas does not seem 100% reproduced when travelling back and forth in time - while standing under a stream of goombas from cascade's cannon, after about 10 passed overhead one bit me - and when I reversed time and still stood still, it did not bite me. maybe due to floating point numbers being used/inaccuracies? or is it a bug related to reversing time or to reversing time + the ring?

data for the graph, if anyone wants to fit an equation to it.

0 0.2
12 0.26
25 0.33
26 0.336
33 0.359
40 0.39
43 0.4
42 0.414
47 0.424
50 0.445
56 0.47
61 0.5
78 0.55
97 0.62
110 0.65
122 0.67
138 0.714
160 0.76
211 0.847
226 0.86
238 0.872
260 0.887
376 0.95
500 0.985

Ok, so I just timed the speed of fireballs and goomba cannons for... ok it's easily been two hours now. haha. here's everything I found

1) Everything within the ring's 'pink circle' is at 0.20 speed. For example, the cannon at the top left of Cascade in world 6 is normally 1 goomba/1.5 sec, with the ring covering the fuse it's /7.5 sec.

2) objects with their centers further away than the pink edge of the visual radius suffer time dilation as follows:

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Mechadragon/timtimedilation2_zps49a1d03b.png[/img]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Mechadragon/timtimedilation2_zps49a1d03b.png

3) the 9 frames after you go from grounded to non-grounded state you have to airjump in (origin of ladder glitch etc) are not time dilated e.g. you don't get 45 frames to airjump while within the ring.

4) noticed something unrelated: movement of goombas does not seem 100% reproduced when travelling back and forth in time - while standing under a stream of goombas from cascade's cannon, after about 10 passed overhead one bit me - and when I reversed time and still stood still, it did not bite me. maybe due to floating point numbers being used/inaccuracies? or is it a bug related to reversing time or to reversing time + the ring?

data for the graph, if anyone wants to fit an equation to it.

[spoiler]
0	0.2
12	0.26
25	0.33
26	0.336
33	0.359
40	0.39
43	0.4
42	0.414
47	0.424
50	0.445
56	0.47
61	0.5
78	0.55
97	0.62
110	0.65
122	0.67
138	0.714
160	0.76
211	0.847
226	0.86
238	0.872
260	0.887
376	0.95
500	0.985
[/spoiler]

Archanfel

2013-04-28 08:47:24 am

Thanks for graph Patashu! I never had enough patience to do it. (Previously i found only the main slow-factor 0.2).

Quote from Patashu:

4) noticed something unrelated: movement of goombas does not seem 100% reproduced when travelling back and forth in time - while standing under a stream of goombas from cascade's cannon, after about 10 passed overhead one bit me - and when I reversed time and still stood still, it did not bite me. maybe due to floating point numbers being used/inaccuracies? or is it a bug related to reversing time or to reversing time + the ring?

It very similar to "Goomba fly" glitch in W4. Most likely you right - floating point numbers are lead to goomba have different position +/- few pixels.
Btw it also take place in World 5 too - sometimes Normal_Tim killed by goomba/rabbit but Shadow_Tim not killed and versa.

---
P.S. Would be cool if idea to use ring to influence on cycles of bullet in Cascade is workable. keylie not yet said, can it be useful or not...

Quote from Archanfel:

2)And Here - to use bullet from previous cycle (so no waiting after getting key.)

May be together these two spots can give enough time to catch previous goomba at the very end?

Thanks for graph Patashu! I never had enough patience to do it. (Previously i found only the main slow-factor 0.2).
[quote="Patashu"]4) noticed something unrelated: movement of goombas does not seem 100% reproduced when travelling back and forth in time - while standing under a stream of goombas from cascade's cannon, after about 10 passed overhead one bit me - and when I reversed time and still stood still, it did not bite me. maybe due to floating point numbers being used/inaccuracies? or is it a bug related to reversing time or to reversing time + the ring?[/quote]It very similar to "Goomba fly" glitch in W4. Most likely you right - floating point numbers are lead to goomba have different position +/- few pixels.
Btw it also take place in World 5 too - sometimes Normal_Tim killed by goomba/rabbit but Shadow_Tim not killed and versa.

---
P.S. Would be cool if idea to use ring to influence on cycles of bullet in Cascade is workable. keylie not yet said, can it be useful or not... [quote="Archanfel"]2)And Here - to use bullet from previous cycle (so no waiting after getting key.)
[hidden][URL=http://hostingkartinok.com][IMG]http://s6.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2013/04/4e45e2917620ff6796b114d70bc22334.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/hidden]
May be together these two spots can give enough time to catch previous goomba at the very end?[/quote]

P-why

2013-04-28 08:47:36 am

Interresting Smiley

Though I think for a pad gameplay it is not very important, for a TAS it might become trickier if you want to use time reverse with the ring. But until now I don't think keylie experimented that during a replay.

Nothing to deal with the ring stuff, but I wanted to let you know that I started running the 6-stars category. I think it's fun and I'm currently uploading my PB (which is VERY bad) on my YT channel. If you like the category please let me know I can try to work a bit on it (most of the work that has to be done concerns routes, all the errors I make during the run can be corrected).

Anyway my actual PB is 35:33 but I think sub 30 can be done (didn't time anything, it's just a feeling, maybe less is even possible). That will be my further objective if I work on it, and might be a new category that I would submit to SDA if you guys think it is relevant. Once again, 8-stars can be done, but no one will try to beat it even if the time is bad...

jujurocking

2013-04-28 11:26:13 am

Hi, I follow the improvment and i just want to let you know that it is possible to reach the platform after the jump on a goomba in jumpman world 4-2. I've done it today and I have a video to prove it it is just a video showing Tim on the platform ^^
Sorry for bad english i am an other french :p

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-04-28 03:31:26 pm

Archanfel: 2013-04-28 03:31:03 pm

Archanfel: 2013-04-28 12:59:42 pm

2013-04-28 12:33:36 pm

Quote from jujurocking:

Hi, I follow the improvment and i just want to let you know that it is possible to reach the platform after the jump on a goomba in jumpman world 4-2.

It is just great!!! I so happy that it possible

I waited this moment about 3 years.

Please, try also second skip in 6-7 too. (Cancel ring during jump). I belive that keylie is right, and it really impossible.... But more tests are always good... just to be sure.

---

Quote from jujurocking:

I know but I am not really good enough to replay it. I failed because i change the speed of the rewind >< and here is the link

Well done! I thought you another TASer, but omg, as i understand you climbed there unassisted. I this case - twice well done! thumbsup

But without tools no sense to try to second skip in 6-7. (It not for humans.)

P-why

2013-04-28 01:31:48 pm

Quote from jujurocking:

It is possible to reach the platform after the jump on a goomba in jumpman world 4-2. I've done it today and I have a video to prove it it is just a video showing Tim on the platform ^^
Sorry for bad english i am an other french :p

Hello you French Cheesy

keylie and I will feel less alone! I want to see that Smiley

It probably won't be doable with a pad in a single segment but it would definitely be awesome in a TAS! And Archanfel:

Quote from Archanfel:

Please, try also second skip in 6-7 too. (Cancel ring during jump). I belive that keylie is right, and it really impossible.... But more tests are always good... just to be sure.

Actually I discussed with keylie about that ring, and it might be possible. It would need tons of tests and/or incredibly hard calculations to figure it out, and maybe it's not possible. But maybe it is Tongue

we'll see soon. I might do some tests with keylie when we can Wink

But please jujurocking give us a link with Tim on the platform, just to see that ^_^ (you should have rewinded time and played it in x1 to show the actions to go on the platform Wink

)

[quote="jujurocking"] It is possible to reach the platform after the jump on a goomba in jumpman world 4-2. I've done it today and I have a video to prove it it is just a video showing Tim on the platform ^^ 
Sorry for bad english i am an other french :p
[/quote]
Hello you French :D keylie and I will feel less alone! I want to see that :) It probably won't be doable with a pad in a single segment but it would definitely be awesome in a TAS! And Archanfel:

[quote="Archanfel"]
Please, try also second skip in 6-7 too. (Cancel ring during jump). [b]I belive that keylie is right, and it really impossible[/b].... But more tests are always good... just to be sure.
[/quote]
Actually I discussed with keylie about that ring, and it might be possible. It would need tons of tests and/or incredibly hard calculations to figure it out, and maybe it's not possible. But maybe it is :P we'll see soon. I might do some tests with keylie when we can ;)

But please jujurocking give us a link with Tim on the platform, just to see that ^_^ (you should have rewinded time and played it in x1 to show the actions to go on the platform ;) )

jujurocking

2013-04-28 02:23:17 pm

I know but I am not really good enough to replay it. I failed because i change the speed of the rewind >< and here is the link

jujurocking

2013-04-28 04:16:03 pm

Thanks Yes I didn't use tools i just try it for fun only for 3 minutes and I have got it ^^ I hope it will be used for tas now I can do it so a TAS-er too :p

Patashu

2013-04-28 04:25:11 pm

jujurocking: Which version of Braid was this (console/PC)?

jujurocking

2013-04-28 04:35:58 pm

I play on pc Wink

keylie

Edit history:

keylie: 2013-04-29 08:40:07 am

keylie: 2013-04-29 07:03:37 am

keylie: 2013-04-29 07:02:09 am

2013-04-29 07:01:14 am

Quote from Archanfel:

Btw it also take place in World 5 too - sometimes Normal_Tim killed by goomba/rabbit but Shadow_Tim not killed and versa.

Well, I think this is related to a bug that I discovered in world 6: if you land on a goomba at the exact same frame that he dies, then you will randomly jump on it or not, and you can switch from one alternative to the other by rewinding. Actually, I didn't try to see if it is also working by rewinding+fast-forwarding, but if it is the case, then it can theoretically be used to save time like in this example:
- Trigger the bug to obtain two different positions of Tim
- Find an input list so that position 1 leads to a green puzzle piece and position 2 leads to the exit door
- Take route 1, take the green puzzle piece, rewind and fast-forward to take route 2, exit.
EDIT: Of course, even if route 2 doesn't lead to the exit door but leads to a position that is closer to it, it also saves time.

Quote from Archanfel:

P.S. Would be cool if idea to use ring to influence on cycles of bullet in Cascade is workable. keylie not yet said, can it be useful or not...

Well, I will try on my second pass, after I'm over with World 1.

Quote from jujurocking:

Hi, I follow the improvment and i just want to let you know that it is possible to reach the platform after the jump on a goomba in jumpman world 4-2. I've done it today and I have a video to prove it it is just a video showing Tim on the platform ^^

Wow, that's really awesome ! The position is then really precise to get this jump.

[quote="Archanfel"]Btw it also take place in World 5 too - sometimes Normal_Tim killed by goomba/rabbit but Shadow_Tim not killed and versa.[/quote]
Well, I think this is related to a bug that I discovered in world 6: if you land on a goomba at the exact same frame that he dies, then you will randomly jump on it or not, and you can switch from one alternative to the other by rewinding. Actually, I didn't try to see if it is also working by rewinding+fast-forwarding, but if it is the case, then it can theoretically be used to save time like in this example:
- Trigger the bug to obtain two different positions of Tim
- Find an input list so that position 1 leads to a green puzzle piece and position 2 leads to the exit door
- Take route 1, take the green puzzle piece, rewind and fast-forward to take route 2, exit.
EDIT: Of course, even if route 2 doesn't lead to the exit door but leads to a position that is closer to it, it also saves time.

[quote="Archanfel"]P.S. Would be cool if idea to use ring to influence on cycles of bullet in Cascade is workable. keylie not yet said, can it be useful or not...[/quote]
Well, I will try on my second pass, after I'm over with World 1.

[quote="jujurocking"]Hi, I follow the improvment and i just want to let you know that it is possible to reach the platform after the jump on a goomba in jumpman world 4-2. I've done it today and I have a video to prove it it is just a video showing Tim on the platform ^^ [/quote]

Wow, that's really awesome ! The position is then really precise to get this jump.

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-04-29 09:02:13 am

2013-04-29 08:55:02 am

Now when jujurocking showed us that upper path at 4-2 is possible, try also to exploit this path twice: (Not sure if faster or not, but worth to try)
-At first only to the key (not get 3rd piece as usually).
-Rewind to UP platform; Get middle piece;
-Rewind again to UP platform; And now collect 3rd piece piece and go to the exit. (The upper cannon have very nice corner glitch directly to the door)

Quote from keylie:

Actually, I didn't try to see if it is also working by rewinding+fast-forwarding, but if it is the case, then it can theoretically be used to save time like in this example:
- Trigger the bug to obtain two different positions of Tim
- Find an input list so that position 1 leads to a green puzzle piece and position 2 leads to the exit door
- Take route 1, take the green puzzle piece, rewind and fast-forward to take route 2, exit.

*____* it very smart idea! But i highly doubt that it will work. As far as i know, forward rewind not reading input data again; it just a simple repetition of Tim's X-Y coordinates trajectory (and other non-green objects). So i afraid that you can't get two different trajectories...

Now when jujurocking showed us that upper path at 4-2 is possible, try also to exploit this path [u]twice[/u]: [size="10"](Not sure if faster or not, but worth to try)[/size]
-At first only to the key (not get 3rd piece as usually).
-Rewind to UP platform; Get middle piece;
-Rewind again to UP platform; And now collect 3rd piece piece and go to the exit. (The upper cannon have very nice corner glitch directly to the door)
[quote="keylie"]Actually, I didn't try to see if it is also working by rewinding+fast-forwarding, but if it is the case, then it can theoretically be used to save time like in this example:
- Trigger the bug to obtain two different positions of Tim
- Find an input list so that position 1 leads to a green puzzle piece and position 2 leads to the exit door
- Take route 1, take the green puzzle piece, rewind and fast-forward to take route 2, exit.[/quote]*____* it very smart idea! But i highly doubt that it will work. As far as i know, forward rewind not reading input data again; it just a simple repetition of Tim's X-Y coordinates trajectory (and other non-green objects). So i afraid that you can't get two different trajectories...

keylie

Edit history:

keylie: 2013-04-29 09:05:39 am

2013-04-29 09:04:32 am

Quote from Archanfel:

*____* it very smart idea! But i highly doubt that it will work. As far as i know, forward rewind not reading input data again; it just a simple repetition of Tim's X-Y coordinates trajectory (and other non-green objects). So i afraid that you can't get two different trajectories...

I just tested in another case (stage 1-4 with single/double goomba jump), and you're right, I couldn't get the other route by rewind-fast-forwarding. I had to release the rewind button to get the other alternative Sad

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-05-01 05:42:57 am

Archanfel: 2013-05-01 05:42:27 am

2013-04-30 10:51:27 am

I only now noticed what you have very low amount of frames in 1-3 => It mean what you jumped directly jump to do door without goomba:

Why you silently kept so cool improvement in secret, almost a week?
---
+Thanks to jujurocking video, i finally replicate perfect jump in 4-2:

keylie

2013-05-01 08:31:11 am

Quote from Archanfel:

I only now noticed what you have very low amount of frames in 1-3 => It mean what you jumped directly jump to do door without goomba.
Why you silently kept so cool improvement in secret, almost a week?

Oh, I was away for a while, and I forgot to tell it here. Indeed, it is possible to jump directly, and without climbing on the canon.

Quote from Archanfel:

+Thanks to jujurocking video, i finally replicate perfect jump in 4-2

How, that's amazing you could replicate it so quickly.

keylie

Edit history:

keylie: 2013-05-02 08:37:31 am

keylie: 2013-05-02 08:37:06 am

keylie: 2013-05-02 08:35:59 am

keylie: 2013-05-02 08:35:49 am

keylie: 2013-05-02 08:34:32 am

2013-05-02 08:33:53 am

I hate to wait on stage 2-4. Here are some ideas, probably any won't work. I need to save about 1 sec here to save one goomba cycle after (would be about 6 sec saved).